NationStates Jolt Archive

Well I have been researching a paper on Brazilian slavery in particular and the economics of slavery in general. I was going over my secondary sources and I noticed something about most of the books on slavery. The vast majority of the books I had checked out from the University library had not been checked out before me for over a decade. It actually made me sad, very sad.
With the threads about holocaust remembrance and native Americans, I am beginning to wonder are we going backwards in our knowledge about the wrongs we did in the past?

Anyways here is what I am asking for. From what you've seen is the US progressing in the study of its racial past, or is it regressing ?
And if we are regressing what should we do about it, if anything ?

Well, I can only speak for the School System in Harrison County, but, Id say its definitely progressed, rather than regressed, is it perfect? No, it largely never will be, because there will always be someone in the category of 'Holocaust Denier', etc...

But, it is getting to the point where they are simply ridiculed or ignored at ever facet, rather than upheld or respected...

Its progressed, in fact it has progressed far enough that people find the whole concept repulsive, perhaps repulsive enough to avoid even studying it.

Its progressed, in fact it has progressed far enough that people find the whole concept repulsive, perhaps repulsive enough to avoid even studying it.

It is actually a problem I am having with my current subject. When people ask what I am writing my senior thesis on they tend to get offended.
So I have to be very careful how I apply economic terms to slavery and people.

No the past is just getting further away.

No the past is just getting further away.

anything you've personally noticed in support of this conclusion?
*Edit other then the passage of time.

anything you've personally noticed in support of this conclusion?

2009>1850? :confused:

2009>1850? :confused:

Other then the passage of time.

anything you've personally noticed in support of this conclusion?

Yes. The more generations of dead people between you and whatever it is that was horrible, the less you are moved by it. So say from an English perspective.

WWI -> Very Horrible

English Civil War - > Good fodder for historical drama

The Entire 14th Century - > ???

The Entire 14th Century - > ???

Things happened to England in the 14th Century? :D

Things happened to England in the 14th Century? :D

Not really. A third of the population died during that period, but it apparently wasn't very eventful.

Not really. A third of the population died during that period, but it apparently wasn't very eventful.

Thats good, I was afraid I was going to have read stuff and study things, :p

Thats good, I was afraid I was going to have read stuff and study things, :p

There will be a test over the 14th century of England. Those failing will be banned from NSG.

Things happened to England in the 14th Century? :D

In 1328 the English King Edward III declared himself King of France and launched the 100 Years war.

In September 1347 the Black Death appeared in Sicily and by 1350 almost 1/3 of the European population had died.

That's just two things out of the many. :wink:

There will be a test over the 14th century of England. Those failing will be banned from NSG.
Ill be absent that day, Ill retake the test on the last day of NSG, :tongue:
In 1328 the English King Edward III declared himself King of France and launched the 100 Years war.

In September 1347 the Black Death appeared in Sicily and by 1350 almost 1/3 of the European population had died.

That's just two things out of the many. :wink:

Meh, that was like Hundreds of years ago man, :rolleyes:

Meh, that was like Hundreds of years ago man, :rolleyes:

Yeah, i was just a young buck back then...

Random fact: In the early history of the Empire of Brazil (shortly after it gained indepenence), nearly 1 in 3 Brazilians was a slave.

Random fact: In the early history of the Empire of Brazil (shortly after it gained indepenence), nearly 1 in 3 Brazilians was a slave.

Fun Fact: I never owned a slave before.

Fun Fact: I never owned a slave before.

I recommend you diversify your portfolio posthaste.

I recommend you diversify your portfolio posthaste.

A new hedge against the dollar?

A new hedge against the dollar?

Human Capital. The last bubble.

Human Capital. The last bubble.

That is actually close to my thesis....

Well I have been researching a paper on Brazilian slavery in particular and the economics of slavery in general. I was going over my secondary sources and I noticed something about most of the books on slavery. The vast majority of the books I had checked out from the University library had not been checked out before me for over a decade. It actually made me sad, very sad.
With the threads about holocaust remembrance and native Americans, I am beginning to wonder are we going backwards in our knowledge about the wrongs we did in the past?

Anyways here is what I am asking for. From what you've seen is the US progressing in the study of its racial past, or is it regressing ?
And if we are regressing what should we do about it, if anything ?

Well if it makes you feel any better I went to three libraries and checked out all applicable books on the Roman Empire I could find most hadn't been checked out since the 80's... I guess no one goes to the local libraries to do research anymore...

Things happened to England in the 14th Century? :D

There was an England in the 14th century?:rolleyes:

Well if it makes you feel any better I went to three libraries and checked out all applicable books on the Roman Empire I could find most hadn't been checked out since the 80's... I guess no one goes to the local libraries to do research anymore...

But this is a university library I expect a professor here to make some student write a paper on slavery more then once a decade.

Not really. A third of the population died during that period, but it apparently wasn't very eventful.

Two thirds didn't? Where are they now?

But this is a university library I expect a professor here to make some student write a paper on slavery more then once a decade.

Well I go to a Catholic University and there were no books on the Roman Empire.:confused: So I had to go to local library.

Well I go to a Catholic University and there were no books on the Roman Empire.:confused: So I had to go to local library.

We only had secondary sources on Brazilian slavery here. All my primary sources I had to go to UT and use their library.
Any one at UT the Benson Collection is a good source of info.

*also very friendly staff there* they looked up some more sources for me while I was going through the first source.

Two thirds didn't? Where are they now?

The dole queue mostly.

Two thirds didn't? Where are they now?

Retirement homes eating up your Tax money. We try to get them to leave, but then they tell us a tale about the 14th century and we get too bored to ask them to leave.

Things happened to England in the 14th Century? :D

Unfortunately. The two degree modules I took on that particular period of time a few years back would have been infinitely simpler had the English just sat about and done fuck all instead of dying and revolting.

Well I have been researching a paper on Brazilian slavery in particular and the economics of slavery in general. I was going over my secondary sources and I noticed something about most of the books on slavery. The vast majority of the books I had checked out from the University library had not been checked out before me for over a decade. It actually made me sad, very sad.
With the threads about holocaust remembrance and native Americans, I am beginning to wonder are we going backwards in our knowledge about the wrongs we did in the past?

Anyways here is what I am asking for. From what you've seen is the US progressing in the study of its racial past, or is it regressing ?
And if we are regressing what should we do about it, if anything ?

Well I couldn't possibly comment on the state of American knowledge, but as to knowledge in general.

Well every generation needs to learn and be taught, and if we get it right we teach them the lessons of our past. Nowt is garenteed though huh.

I was having a conversation with the Keeper the other day and he said something that, upon retrospective and now that I really think of it, he is right. Societies reach a pinnacle, and I think we're in it, and then devolve. Perhaps that's why we seem unable, as a collective, to learn from past mistakes.

I was having a conversation with the Keeper the other day and he said something that, upon retrospective and now that I really think of it, he is right. Societies reach a pinnacle, and I think we're in it, and then devolve. Perhaps that's why we seem unable, as a collective, to learn from past mistakes.

Generally nonsensical.

Generally nonsensical.

Elaborate.

Elaborate.

because "society" is not a static concept that rises and falls. Societies adapt, merge, split off, rejoin, conquer and are conquered, it's not nearly as clear as that.

because "society" is not a static concept that rises and falls. Societies adapt, merge, split off, rejoin, conquer and are conquered, it's not nearly as clear as that.

I beg to differ. Societies do rise and fall, civilizations do rise and fall.

I was having a conversation with the Keeper the other day and he said something that, upon retrospective and now that I really think of it, he is right. Societies reach a pinnacle, and I think we're in it, and then devolve. Perhaps that's why we seem unable, as a collective, to learn from past mistakes.

Did I say that?

Must have been hitting the pipe again....

because "society" is not a static concept that rises and falls. Societies adapt, merge, split off, rejoin, conquer and are conquered, it's not nearly as clear as that.

One could argue being conquered is preceded by a fall.

Did I say that?

Must have been hitting the pipe again....

You... sir... need... a spanking. <_<

You did say that.

Well I have been researching a paper on Brazilian slavery in particular and the economics of slavery in general. I was going over my secondary sources and I noticed something about most of the books on slavery. The vast majority of the books I had checked out from the University library had not been checked out before me for over a decade. It actually made me sad, very sad.
With the threads about holocaust remembrance and native Americans, I am beginning to wonder are we going backwards in our knowledge about the wrongs we did in the past?

Anyways here is what I am asking for. From what you've seen is the US progressing in the study of its racial past, or is it regressing ?
And if we are regressing what should we do about it, if anything ?

For lack of a better explanation I think everyone has retreated to their own "bird of a feather". I think we have grouped ourselves according to our beliefs. I think some of the walls are falling but it seem a slow process. To my knowledge I have never heard open discussions on this subject except in the context of the Civil War or the whole 60's movement. Why would we there is nothing further to learn? I think we know the reason it still exists, we find in place where we don't expect to find it. We constantly shocked when it comes out in the newspaper or TV.

What new ground is there to cover? What can we learn that we didn't already know. This brings to mind the Attorney general's question. He said we are a bunch of cowards for lack of a better word. This is a really touchy, sensitive subject why would we drag this back out into the light?

I beg to differ. Societies do rise and fall, civilizations do rise and fall.

I agree, but I don't think that the pattern you have outlined can really be predicted.

I agree, but I don't think that the pattern you have outlined can really be predicted.

I always see them as one sees the pattern or development of stories. Like a pyramid. There's the beginning, the rise, the climax and then the descent. You're right, patterns cannot be diserned. But they surely happen.

For lack of a better explanation I think everyone has retreated to their own "bird of a feather". I think we have grouped ourselves according to our beliefs. I think some of the walls are falling but it seem a slow process. To my knowledge I have never heard open discussions on this subject except in the context of the Civil War or the whole 60's movement. Why would we there is nothing further to learn? I think we know the reason it still exists, we find in place where we don't expect to find it. We constantly shocked when it comes out in the newspaper or TV.

What new ground is there to cover? What can we learn that we didn't already know. This brings to mind the Attorney general's question. He said we are a bunch of cowards for lack of a better word. This is a really touchy, sensitive subject why would we drag this back out into the light?

Yess indeed. I have long thought that in the fullness of time, mankind will be run along tribal lines. Not tribes of culture, or nationality but by mindset. I belive I have mentioned this on other threads.

Did I say that?

Must have been hitting the pipe again....

You... sir... need... a spanking. <_<

You did say that.

Poor Galloism. She is a woman... they listen to what you say, so you cant say too many crazy things around them

Yess indeed. I have long thought that in the fullness of time, mankind will be run along tribal lines. Not tribes of culture, or nationality but by mindset. I belive I have mentioned this on other threads.

That's an interesting take. Tribal lines. Matrilineal or patriarchies?

I always see them as one sees the pattern or development of stories. Like a pyramid. There's the beginning, the rise, the climax and then the descent. You're right, patterns cannot be diserned. But they surely happen.

Ohh yeah granted, I just don't see that the pattern as you outlined it (reaching a pinicle, and the falling) is true in all cases, and in many cannot be predicted.

I mean sure our history shows that this is more than likely correct, but then I guess it only takes one 'empire' to not fall, to brake that particular pattern.

Ohh yeah granted, I just don't see that the pattern as you outlined it (reaching a pinicle, and the falling) is true in all cases, and in many cannot be predicted.

I mean sure our history shows that this is more than likely correct, but then I guess it only takes one 'empire' to not fall, to brake that particular pattern.

Ok... let us take it as it not being the norm, but rather most likely what can happen or what's more likely to happen.

That's an interesting take. Tribal lines. Matrilineal or patriarchies?

Both, none, either? Whatever the mindset is I guess. Let me be clear, I'm talking about huge swathes of land inhabited by like minded people who's goverment works under the priciples under which the community came about.

Yess indeed. I have long thought that in the fullness of time, mankind will be run along tribal lines. Not tribes of culture, or nationality but by mindset. I believe I have mentioned this on other threads.

Tribes is a really good description. Red States vs. Blue States. Conservative vs. Liberal, progressive vs. reactionary

We just keep to our own whomever they are.

Both, none, either? Whatever the mindset is I guess. Let me be clear, I'm talking about huge swathes of land inhabited by like minded people who's goverment works under the priciples under which the community came about.

Gotcha.

One could argue being conquered is preceded by a fall.

really? The angles and the saxons conquered most of the celts, and were in exchange conquered by the normans, who themselves were a civilization that grew after the romans conquered the gauls. Then, several hundred years later, the combined hodgepodge of celtic, anglo saxon and norman offspring conquered much of the known world, including the land I'm in right now, which I have found myself in after my own family left a land that had been repeatedly raped pillaged and conquered by mongoles, russians and what is now germany.

And yet those cultures, those societies still exist, in some form. Changed, mutated, altered and re-arranged, yes, but society is not something that can be objectively judged as "rising" or "falling". To do so is to try and substantively value them. Even now, going back to the celts, a people conquered by a group of people who were later conquered, who themselves were the offspring of conquerers and conquered themselves, those celtic people still exist, 2,000 years later.

really? The angles and the saxons conquered most of the celts, and were in exchange conquered by the normans, who themselves were a civilization that grew after the romans conquered the gauls. Then, several hundred years later, the combined hodgepodge of celtic, anglo saxon and norman offspring conquered much of the known world, including the land I'm in right now, which I have found myself in after my own family left a land that had been repeatedly raped pillaged and conquered by mongoles, russians and what is now germany.

And yet those cultures, those societies still exist, in some form. Changed, mutated, altered and re-arranged, yes, but society is not something that can be objectively judged as "rising" or "falling". To do so is to try and substantively value them. Even now, going back to the celts, a people conquered by a group of people who were later conquered, who themselves were the offspring of conquerors and conquered themselves, those celtic people still exist, 2,000 years later.


They still exist but have assimilated into other cultures. I think one knows when their society is waning. Your language become spoken and written less frequently. The things that you valued no longer are acceptable. I think they call it marginalization.

Sociology. marked by contact with disparate cultures, and acquiring some but not all the traits or values common to any one of them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

Today, the term 'Celtic' is generally used to describe the languages and respective cultures of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, the Isle of Man and Brittany, also known as the Six Celtic Nations. These are the regions where four Celtic languages are still spoken to some extent as mother tongues: Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Welsh, and Breton plus two recent revivals, Cornish (one of the Brythonic languages) and Manx (one of the Goidelic languages). There are also attempts to revive the Cumbric language (a Brythonic language from Northwest England and Southwest Scotland). 'Celtic' is also sometimes used to describe regions of Continental Europe that have Celtic heritage, but where no Celtic language has survived; these areas include the western Iberian Peninsula, i.e. Portugal, and north-central Spain (Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Castile and León, Extremadura), and to a lesser degree, France. (see Modern Celts)

'Continental Celts' refers to the Celtic-speaking people of mainland Europe. 'Insular Celts' refers to the Celtic-speaking people of the British Isles and their descendants. The Celts of Brittany derive their language from migrating insular Celts from west Britain and so are grouped accordingly