NationStates Jolt Archive

Which is better? I am returning to college to finish my BA. I know that I want to get my Masters but I am not sure what I want after that. I am good at teaching stuff, if I know the subject area (never ask me to teach calculus) but I also enjoy researching laws.
I am trying to decide whether to get a teaching credential or go onto law school. A web search for comparisons has not turned up very much quality information.
I found some practice questions for the LSAT online. Those logic games are difficult. I heard those take a lot of practice. I think the point is to infer information from the data.
If I want to teach then I have to take the single subject exam (why did I just forget the name?). Which I have not seen.

Does anyone know the standard of living for both? I would like to do both but I have a distinct feeling I can only do one at a time.

I know my credentialing would be paid for but my source of financial aid only covers up to $7,000 a year because of California heavily subsidizing its colleges and universities. Is it true that lawers owe up to a half million dollars by the time they graduate law school? How do you pay all that off in a good time period?

Sorry about all the questions.

what kind of law are you interested in? where would you like to teach?

why not teach law :confused:

also:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3420/wwirecruitmentposterwit.jpg

Law the higher pay makes debt payment easier.

I have a BEd and just finished my LLB.

I taught for 5 years...didn't expect to get into law school so quickly, or I'd have been there longer. I really loved teaching. Fairly good pay, and summers off, hell yes! But you do tap out in the pay department. I was making $59,000 a year, but that was in an isolated northern community. It's more like $34,000 in a city. It's an active job, and you're always 'on', so if you like to perform, it's great for you. Lots of work though. At first you spend a ridiculous amount of time developing lesson plans until you find your groove, and you have these insane ups and downs. The best days ever, and the worst days ever. It's both rewarding and draining. Expect to work many evenings and weekends, especially the first few years, but things do settle down after a while.

I haven't practiced law yet, but the starting pay is not that much better, but you have a good chance to make some extreme coin. However, you're also expected to fucking kill yourself for those first few years, getting in your billable hour targets. That's if you're going the big firm route. I still want something that gives me time off, but I realise that's going to come at a pay cut. This is all assuming you survive lawschool btw. Fucking hell, I tell ya.

It really depends on what you want to do. Lawyering is a lot of paperwork, not so much glory. Teaching, you are in the midst of a performance non-stop all day.

Lawyering is a lot of paperwork, not so much glory.

Pfft! Speak for yourself, lass! If you play your cards right it can be all paperwork!

what kind of law are you interested in? where would you like to teach?

Teaching: social sciences. Secondary level or collegiate. I am majoring in political science. I don't think I can pass the multiple subject exam for elementary. It's been a few years because I stopped college to join the military and just got out to finish my degree program.
Law: Constitutional and International.

by where i meant what part of the country. some areas dont pay well enough to bother being a teacher. some areas are too hard to get your first teaching job.

but

since you need a ba before you go to law school why not get a social science degree of some kind with a teaching credential then go to law school later (like neesika did)?

Has anyone taken the actual LSAT? How difficult did you find it?

by where i meant what part of the country. some areas dont pay well enough to bother being a teacher. some areas are too hard to get your first teaching job.

but

since you need a ba before you go to law school why not get a social science degree of some kind with a teaching credential then go to law school later (like neesika did)?

I was wondering about if that was possible. Other sites I looked at, the people went into law first then teaching. On my application it already has me catagorized for single subject teaching.

I was wondering how Neesika did it?

BTW, in answer to the question: California.

Has anyone taken the actual LSAT? How difficult did you find it?

I wrote it with a week of preparation and a head cold and did fine. Then again, some very brilliant people took the same test and failed it so bad their great grandchildren will be feeling it.

I was wondering about if that was possible. Other sites I looked at, the people went into law first then teaching. On my application it already has me catagorized for single subject teaching.

I was wondering how Neesika did it?

BTW, in answer to the question: California.

You pretty much need an undergraduate degree here to get into law. So I got my BEd first.

I was wondering about if that was possible. Other sites I looked at, the people went into law first then teaching. On my application it already has me catagorized for single subject teaching.

I was wondering how Neesika did it?

BTW, in answer to the question: California.
call your local school district to see what the starting salary is. then think long and hard if you can make it on that amount of money.

At CSU fullerton, I think Political Science is a social science. At least the political science faculty sure seems keen on trying to poly sci majors to go into teaching. LOL.
But I think that is because of the recent investments the state has been making to increase the number of teachers statewide. Unfortunately, this state is currently laying off teachers.
A girl I met at the bus stop yesterday was a law student in Glendale, and she told me she found there was not that big of a demand for lawyers right now either.

On the lawyer side, post law school, is it best to start off working at another law firm or should you start your own?

I was wondering about if that was possible. Other sites I looked at, the people went into law first then teaching. On my application it already has me catagorized for single subject teaching.

I was wondering how Neesika did it?

BTW, in answer to the question: California.
if you make sure you take certain classes that law schools love to see you have taken and have done well in youll be fine in getting into law school (with a good lsat score)

At CSU fullerton, I think Political Science is a social science. At least the political science faculty sure seems keen on trying to poly sci majors to go into teaching. LOL.
But I think that is because of the recent investments the state has been making to increase the number of teachers statewide. Unfortunately, this state is currently laying off teachers.
A girl I met at the bus stop yesterday was a law student in Glendale, and she told me she found there was not that big of a demand for lawyers right now either.

On the lawyer side, post law school, is it best to start off working at another law firm or should you start your own?
you dont know enough to start your own.

At least in Cal. all law schools require a BA.

In my city, where the cost of living is $55,000 the starting salary is about $30,000.

you dont know enough to start your own.

I was wondering how that worked.

At least in Cal. all law schools require a BA.

In my city, where the cost of living is $55,000 the starting salary is about $30,000.
i wouldnt choose teaching unless you were willing to move to another state then.

the $30k starting salary in new mexico is enough to live on at least.

At least in Cal. all law schools require a BA.

In my city, where the cost of living is $55,000 the starting salary is about $30,000.

How does California get in to these situations ??
Texas starting teacher salary averages 33k which is more than enough for the cost of living here. We also have less revenues as we don't have an income tax, and we are not about to go bankrupt as a state??

Wow... just wow.


oh before KOL screams for it source
http://teacherportal.com/salary/texas-teacher-salary

How do you fund law school on limited finances?

How do you fund law school on limited finances?

join the army. my next set of benefits is tuition exemption in state.

This site gives figures that are different from what I was told but i am not sure the extra 6K helps much. But I'm assuming that is normal for teachers who are just starting out?

http://www.schools-data.com/schools/Evergreen-ES-Whittier.html

Beginning teacher salary: $36814
Mid-range teacher salary: $58697
Highest teacher salary: $71391

That for elementary level.

For high school level this says:
http://www.schools-data.com/schools/California-High-Whittier.html

Beginning teacher salary: $34650
Mid-range teacher salary: $59235
Highest teacher salary: $72681

join the army. my next set of benefits is tuition exemption in state.

I already did that. That is how I am finishing my BA and getting my Masters. I think it will also cover the credentialing. But because the state subsidizes education, it won't provide much for law school.

This site gives figures that are different from what I was told but i am not sure the extra 6K helps much. But I'm assuming that is normal for teachers who are just starting out?

http://www.schools-data.com/schools/Evergreen-ES-Whittier.html

Beginning teacher salary: $36814
Mid-range teacher salary: $58697
Highest teacher salary: $71391

That for elementary level.

For high school level this says:
http://www.schools-data.com/schools/California-High-Whittier.html

Beginning teacher salary: $34650
Mid-range teacher salary: $59235
Highest teacher salary: $72681

Seems to just be for the school district of Whittier.

I already did that. That is how I am finishing my BA and getting my Masters. I think it will also cover the credentialing. But because the state subsidizes education, it won't provide much for law school.

California doesn't have those benefits.
I bet you wished you lived in Texas so you could use the http://www.tvc.state.tx.us/Hazlewood.html

if you make sure you take certain classes that law schools love to see you have taken and have done well in youll be fine in getting into law school (with a good lsat score)

I'll be honest here. Law schools don't care what classes you've taken. In fact, they're quite happy to have people who have diverse backgrounds and didn't study all that much law in undergrad. Law school is a "grounds up" system, and while you're expected to have at least a basic understanding of the structure of our governance, beyond that everything you need to know will be drilled into you.

Don't really think about "pre law" programs, they're a joke. Get a diverse education, that will help you more than anything in law school.

I'll be honest here. Law schools don't care what classes you've taken. In fact, they're quite happy to have people who have diverse backgrounds and didn't study all that much law in undergrad. Law school is a "grounds up" system, and while you're expected to have at least a basic understanding of the structure of our governance, beyond that everything you need to know will be drilled into you.

Don't really think about "pre law" programs, they're a joke. Get a diverse education, that will help you more than anything in law school.

One of the things my history professors always brag about is law schools accept more history majors than Pre Laws.

Seems to just be for the school district of Whittier.
Its actually two school districts. One is Whittier City School district and the other is Whittier Union High School district.

I don't know what it is for El Rancho which is next door. For some reason, a lot of the schools in Pico Rivera have Ranch in their name. It's as if that city was obssessed with the Ranch.

Its actually two school districts. One is Whittier City School district and the other is Whittier Union High School district.

I don't know what it is for El Rancho which is next door. For some reason, a lot of the schools in Pico Rivera have Ranch in their name. It's as if that city was obssessed with the Ranch.

If these are suburbs expect them to pay more then rural areas and inner cities.
They just have a better tax base.

What is the point of prelaw?

I have the option of adding a minor and would add the Law, politics and society minor if I needed it. But I don't need it?

What would be a good item to minor in?

If these are suburbs expect them to pay more then rural areas and inner cities.
They just have a better tax base.
Not sure they are doing too well with the current state of realty industry. Plus I don't know how old that data is.

Oh right, 'prelaw'. What all the SNAILS (students not actually in law school) claim they're in. It's code for 'an undergrad degree'.

I went to school with people who had masters degrees in neuroscience, engineering grads, fine arts grads, phDs in poli-sci, etc. Very diverse. None of those programs, not even poli-sci gave anyone a real leg up. You sink or you swim on your own merits.

Not sure they are doing too well with the current state of realty industry. Plus I don't know how old that data is.

I doubt the local governments will drop the wages.
Just cut arts and music programs.

I'll be honest here. Law schools don't care what classes you've taken. In fact, they're quite happy to have people who have diverse backgrounds and didn't study all that much law in undergrad. Law school is a "grounds up" system, and while you're expected to have at least a basic understanding of the structure of our governance, beyond that everything you need to know will be drilled into you.

Don't really think about "pre law" programs, they're a joke. Get a diverse education, that will help you more than anything in law school.
given that its a long time since ive been in college but back then the theory was that it is hard to judge how well a student did in different colleges--what might get an A at new mexico state wouldnt get a C at brown, perhaps--so there were certain classes that you take that had a reputation of being tough enough that getting a good grade was certain to mean something. not law classes but....."the constitutional history of england"....or something....

I doubt the local governments will drop the wages.
Just cut arts and music programs.

I think they did but they are using the federal stimulus to restore them.

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/ci_12185532?source=rss_viewed

"The extra money could help East Whittier restore cuts to P.E., arts and counseling programs, among others."

On those logic games, on the LSAT, how many were you actually able to answer and how many did you have to guess on?
The current requirements seem to be 35 minutes to complete 35 questions.

Has anyone taken the actual LSAT? How difficult did you find it?

Disclaimer 1: I've always been good at standardized tests.

Disclaimer 2: I enjoy logic problems. I like to sit around with a logic puzzle book like some people do with crossword puzzles. (I suck at crossword puzzles, by the way.)

I took the LSAT a couple years ago. I didn't find it all that hard. I bought one of the books of sample tests that the LSAC sells, and did a couple practice runs first, but other than that I didn't do any fancy "Test Prep" classes or anything. I scored in the 95 percentile. The test is long... but not that bad I didn't think.

I can't really add much more about teaching than what has already been said. I will state though that there is a glut of Social Science teachers out there (as well as English) and this makes it difficult to get placement unless you're willing to go to urban schools. If you're willing to get credentialed in Maths or Sciences however, you can pretty much expect to write your own ticket.

But, yeah, don't expect to make a lot as a teacher. It just doesn't happen.

How do you fund law school on limited finances?

That's the issue I'm having. I decided after I finished my undergrad to work for a few years, in hopes of saving enough money to pay for law school without having to take out loans. HA! That worked backwards, and I am now in debt (thanks to many expensive car issues). I'm now hoping to start law school in fall of 2010. Tuition at the state school in the town I live in runs approximately $11,000 a year for part-time students, and their evening program is every bit as good as their day program. I'm planning on continuing to work where I've been working and go to law school at night. My current income covers my living expenses, so I won't have to take out loans for living expenses - just books and tuition. I won't make my goal of finishing debt-free; but at least I'll go. My big fear is that starting salary as an attorney won't be any more than what I'm making now ($34,000 a year), so I'll have a ton of debt and no additional income to pay it off. But at least as an attorney there will be more opportunities to increase my compensation given time.

If you want to make money, go for law. If you want to be miserable, either one will work.

You won't make tons of money as a teacher.
Depending on the type of law you practice, you could do very well.

Isn't California FIRING teachers? because of the state budget?

I'd like to do constitional and civil rights. Are those two sides of the same coin?

You won't make tons of money as a teacher.
Depending on the type of law you practice, you could do very well.

Isn't California FIRING teachers? because of the state budget?

They're laying them off. Some districts are using the federal funds to hire some back but the problem is that the federal funding is temporary and they are acting like it is permanent.

I think if I go to law school, pass the bar, I could make some money. Then if I still want to teach, I can get the credential and not have to worry bout low salaries.

Is that faulty logic?

Be a teacher. You get to do strip searches. :D

I hope it won't hurt that most of my poly sci classes, last time I was attending, were public administration courses dealing with stuff like redevelopment and zoning issues.

Be a teacher. You get to do strip searches. :D
LOL SCOTUS won't make that ruling until June. I hope they don't rule that way. If they do, any perv can use it as an excuse.
If you have to, suspend them from school but just don't violate their human rights by subjecting them to SS's by someone who is not a cop with a search warrant.

You won't make tons of money as a teacher.
Depending on the type of law you practice, you could do very well.

Isn't California FIRING teachers? because of the state budget?

We're not getting FIRED, we're getting PINK SLIPPED, and I'd thank you not to bring it up! I still have two months to get through before I can enjoy my unemployment.

We're not getting FIRED, we're getting PINK SLIPPED, and I'd thank you not to bring it up! I still have two months to get through before I can enjoy my unemployment.

At least the Stimulus package covers unemployment benefits so you know the state wont issue an IOU for those.

On those logic games, on the LSAT, how many were you actually able to answer and how many did you have to guess on?
The current requirements seem to be 35 minutes to complete 35 questions.
I took the LSAT a year ago, and was able to answer all the logic games questions, though I was a little pressed for time at the end. I found this (http://www.amazon.com/PowerScore-LSAT-Logic-Games-Bible/dp/097212960X) to be fairly helpful for that section.

If you can read, you'll do fine on the LSAT. The CSET is basically a joke, especally the CSET Social Science. People know it, though, which means there's a lot of competition.

Also, in what world does it cost $55,000 to live in Whittier? You blow your nose with gold foil, or something? Damn.

If you can read, you'll do fine on the LSAT. The CSET is basically a joke, especally the CSET Social Science. People know it, though, which means there's a lot of competition.

Also, in what world does it cost $55,000 to live in Whittier? You blow your nose with gold foil, or something? Damn.

Rent/mortgage, assuming gas prices go back up, electric, trash, water bills, mandatory monthly insurance premiums, cost of food. It's not cheap. And the city is trying to increase the cost of living here.
If you can afford it, you dine out out on $15 cheeseburgers. The grocery store is barely any better. Though I've heard the 99 cent store has good bargains.

If you have kids, your COL is higher.

If you have kids, your COL is higher.

then you normally have a Husband or wife who is also working or hopefully child support.

Most women who have kids in Whittier are single mothers. Some of them left their husbands because their husbands were physically abusing them and the kids.
These women try to support themselves and their children on minimum wage jobs that treat them like crap.

The ones who have husbands also have their own businesses. But even they are not making out like bandits. They have pay the cost of living for their whole family plus they have to pay employment taxes and health care on their employees and government mandate fees. But business people are generally better off than people who don't have their own business.

then you normally have a Husband or wife who is also working or hopefully child support.

What do you when a guy quits his job just to avoid paying child support?

Rent/mortgage, assuming gas prices go back up, electric, trash, water bills, mandatory monthly insurance premiums, cost of food. It's not cheap. And the city is trying to increase the cost of living here.
If you can afford it, you dine out out on $15 cheeseburgers. The grocery store is barely any better. Though I've heard the 99 cent store has good bargains.

I live on less than 1/4 of that, five or so miles from you. Granted, I don't have kids, but still. Good luck, anyway.

Which is better? I am returning to college to finish my BA. I know that I want to get my Masters but I am not sure what I want after that. I am good at teaching stuff, if I know the subject area (never ask me to teach calculus) but I also enjoy researching laws.
I am trying to decide whether to get a teaching credential or go onto law school. A web search for comparisons has not turned up very much quality information.
I found some practice questions for the LSAT online. Those logic games are difficult. I heard those take a lot of practice. I think the point is to infer information from the data.
If I want to teach then I have to take the single subject exam (why did I just forget the name?). Which I have not seen.

Does anyone know the standard of living for both? I would like to do both but I have a distinct feeling I can only do one at a time.

I know my credentialing would be paid for but my source of financial aid only covers up to $7,000 a year because of California heavily subsidizing its colleges and universities. Is it true that lawers owe up to a half million dollars by the time they graduate law school? How do you pay all that off in a good time period?

Sorry about all the questions.

In both you will have to work long hours and weekends. Teachers get the summer off, but you generally spend that time working a summer job and going back to school to keep your certifications and get ahead. Teachers get respect in some areas, but in general they are mocked. You will suffer under government control, but hopefully they will be funded now. If you really have what it takes to be a lawyer you should go that route. The standard of living issue goes in favor of the lawyer as well. If I'm going to work 80 hours a week I better be coming home to sleep in a nice neighborhood, free of crime, and 1,000 count sheets. I've been a teacher before and currently work in food service management. All the while I am prepping for my LSAT to help me into corporate law running a 503C non profit cancer support group where I spend the rest of the little free time I have. Having that background in law will help run my organization more efficiently. Running a business from legal standpoint is imperative. Having that organization helping people in your local communities and expending would be amazing. There limitless gain we can make for a great couse.

What do you when a guy quits his job just to avoid paying child support?

He still has to pay. If he is recently unemployed they will figure off of his most recent job, or if he has been unemployed for a long time(vague because varies by state), they will figure what he owes based off of minimum wage and 40 hours a week.
With differences by state.
If he doesn't pay he will go to jail, regardless of his income status.

If you can read, you'll do fine on the LSAT. The CSET is basically a joke, especally the CSET Social Science. People know it, though, which means there's a lot of competition.

Also, in what world does it cost $55,000 to live in Whittier? You blow your nose with gold foil, or something? Damn.

Er... the LSAT is way harder than the CSET. Waaay harder. And I knew plenty of people who failed the CSET. :/

In both you will have to work long hours and weekends. Teachers get the summer off, but you generally spend that time working a summer job and going back to school to keep your certifications and get ahead. Teachers get respect in some areas, but in general they are mocked. You will suffer under government control, but hopefully they will be funded now.

Don't bank on it. Whittier will probably have job openings because, well... it's Whittier, but money? From the government? I heard they used to give that out...

Don't bank on it. Whittier will probably have job openings because, well... it's Whittier, but money? From the government? I heard they used to give that out...

They give IOU's now I heard it is as good as money.

Studying law isn't that difficult, in the UK at least. Keep on top of your reading and it's no worries.

Reading? What do type of things should I be reading?

The basic set reading for the course, plus whatever else is needed to keep you up to speed in classes? There's usually quite a lot. I'd say that every day I spend 2-3 hours reading textbooks, journals, and case reports, and that's on top of actually going into university to go to the classes. That gets me an average of about 72%, which is just enough for the highest degree classification available.

And as an example of the basic workload that I have this year (second out of three), within the next five weeks I have the following: two 3,000 word essays, one 5,000 word essay, and four exams, all covering the various modules I do this semester (I had a similar amount of essays/exams in January).

That sounds like a lot. Then again it's been 8 years since I've had to do essays. I think I made a mistake stopping college to join the military. But I do remember that I did because I started freaking out about the student loans. Hindsight, I think I should have just stuck it out.

I have an EWP that I have to do. I write occasionally but I'm not sure my writing style still meets collegiate standards.
I need to look up citation formats. I know they have certain formats undergrad colleges require. What I usually do, is I put a number next to any paraphrase or qoute and on the bottom of the page, next to the number, I put the source of the information. But they don't do that in college. I think they stopped using it in the 80's or 90's because the other system was better and more efficient.