NationStates Jolt Archive

Not quite Miss South Carolina from 2008 (http://omg.yahoo.com/news/perez-hilton-the-way-miss-california-answered-her-question-lost-her-the-crown/21528?nc), but.....

LAS VEGAS, Nev. -- Miss North Carolina Kristen Dalton may have been crowned Miss USA 2009 on Sunday, but on Monday, it was Miss California Carrie Prejean's answer to a question about same-sex marriage from celebrity blogger and pageant judge Perez Hilton that was the night's biggest story.

During the show, Perez asked Carrie, "Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same sex marriage. Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?"

"Well I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. Um, we live in a land that you can choose same sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what, in my country and in, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman," Carrie said to a mix of boos and applause. "No offense to anybody out there. But that's how I was raised and that's how I think that it should be between a man and a woman."

Carrie's answer to the hot button question cost her the crown - at least according to Perez.

"The way miss California answered her question lost her the crown, without a doubt!" Perez told Access Hollywood after the pageant. "Never before that I'm aware of has a contestant been booed at Miss USA."

Keith Lewis, Co-Executive Director of the Miss California USA and Miss California Teen USA said in statement to Access Hollywood that he respects Carrie's opinion, even if it differs with his.

"I am proud of Carrie Prejean's beauty and placement at the 2009 Miss USA pageant. I support Carrie's right to express her personal beliefs even if they do not coincide with my own," Keith told Access. "I believe the subject of gay marriage deserves a great deal more conversation in order to heal the divide it has created."

So a gay pageant judge asks a gay marriage question of Miss...California. I know they claim those judges are selected to ask their questions at random, but this seems a bit fishy, given the Prop 8 mess.

Coincidences/conspiracies aside, is it fair that Miss CA gets one of the most divisive issues in recent US political and social history and Miss SC gets a softball about whether or not taxpayer money should bail out banks?

Question Two, should a pageant be a "gotcha" moment for a gay judge to push his agenda?

Question Three, if Miss CA's loss was indeed a result of her answer to the gay marriage question, why? If the answer is unpopular, shouldn't someone looking to represent the USA -- a nation steeped in dissent, the hearing of minority opinions, and admiration for those who buck the system and challenge orthodoxy -- be praised for sticking to her guns when she could easily have given the "popular" answer?

I don't normally care at all for pageants, but this incident has me thinking. What about you?

Not that I really care about miss usa or anything, but I would only say that she deserved to possibly be crowned, if you also accept that segregationists get the same respect, cause thats what her answer to her question represents...

It is obvious SCOTUS needs to get involved and order the crown to California.

So a gay pageant judge asks a gay marriage question of Miss...California. I know they claim those judges are selected to ask their questions at random, but this seems a bit fishy, given the Prop 8 mess.

Coincidences/conspiracies aside, is it fair that Miss CA gets one of the most divisive issues in recent US political and social history and Miss SC gets a softball about whether or not taxpayer money should bail out banks?

Yep, I don't even know why they bother asking any of these sort of questions in the first place. I think it is an attempt to try and show that the pagent is more than just a beauty contest but we will look in the mind as well, that and the oppurtunity to find some lulz.

And I doubt that she lost simply because of that question, sounds like some body just wants to do a I'll show you bitch comment.

Why the fuck have they got that wanker being a judge anyway? These pagents used to have some sort of class in them nowadays it has just gone further to the dogs.

Question Two, should a pageant be a "gotcha" moment for a gay judge to push his agenda?

As I say that is what he is using it for but not only that he will use it to continue to push his own attention seeking agenda.

Question Three, if Miss CA's loss was indeed a result of her answer to the gay marriage question, why? If the answer is unpopular, shouldn't someone looking to represent the USA -- a nation steeped in dissent, the hearing of minority opinions, and admiration for those who buck the system and challenge orthodoxy -- be praised for sticking to her guns when she could easily have given the "popular" answer?

Actually she should be praised for not changing her principals simply to curry favour with the judges. But this is not what Miss USA is all about.

Her answer was fucking nonsense. And I don't know about the bail out question being a 'softball' either, seeing as it's something being hotly debated for the last few months and at least part of the subject of a national astroturf tizzy fit a few days before the pageant.

First, Miss California said she was proud that she lived in a country where people could chose between "...same sex marriage and opposite marriage." Take aside her complete inability to articulate the situation, in the state she fucking represents there was just a high profile proposition that made the case the complete opposite of what she said. She had a borderline Miss South Carolina moment and lost.

They all asked topical questions. The gay guy asked a question about gay rights...oh noez, agenda...so fucking what. Is it not topical? Couldn't she have at least gotten the current legal status right? Or been able to articulate the situation at the very least?

She didn't lose because she disagreed with gay marriage, she lost because she fumbled through the answer.

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

^^^This prettymuch states exactly why she doesnt deserve the crown...

/thread...

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

But she said that its great for Americans to be able to choose. She just said that she PERSONALLY is opposed to gay marriage. I don't think she really supports your argument.

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

You might want to crack down on seedy Instant Messaging conversation with pages and airport bathroom footsies while you're at it Leeroy.

But she said that its great for Americans to be able to choose. She just said that she PERSONALLY is opposed to gay marriage. I don't think she really supports your argument.

Well, I would say that there is a difference between being able to personally choose whether to marry a man or a woman...

and denying that right to choose to someone else, which seems to be what she is implying...

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control uppity NIG-GERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one WHITE man + one BLACK woman. END OF ISSUE.

And Perez Hilton is a watermelon eating spearchucker , a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "interracial marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for half-breeds, starting with Perez Hilton.

see how ridiculous your argument sounds now?

see how ridiculous your argument sounds now?

Do you think he does?

Well, I would say that there is a difference between being able to personally choose whether to marry a man or a woman...

and denying that right to choose to someone else, which seems to be what she is implying...

she didn't really take a position. she started off with some platitudes about choice and then said that she basically finds it icky and that in HER country, she wouldn't allow gay marriage.

Not that I really care about miss usa or anything, but I would only say that she deserved to possibly be crowned, if you also accept that segregationists get the same respect, cause thats what her answer to her question represents...

Uh...can you go into detail on that point, please? I'm not seeing the comparison.

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

You could have stopped here, and I'd have been okay with you expressing your opinion.

The "tail wagging the dog" is the only way minorities have been able to avoid and remedy institutionalized and dug-in discrimination. Your ignorance of history is truly sad.

And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

But this screed is not the issue in the thread (especially when you call those you disagree with "haters" -- hypocrite much?). I don't come into your threads and piss all over everything. I'll thank you to grant my thread the same courtesy.

Her answer was fucking nonsense. And I don't know about the bail out question being a 'softball' either, seeing as it's something being hotly debated for the last few months and at least part of the subject of a national astroturf tizzy fit a few days before the pageant.

First, Miss California said she was proud that she lived in a country where people could chose between "...same sex marriage and opposite marriage." Take aside her complete inability to articulate the situation, in the state she fucking represents there was just a high profile proposition that made the case the complete opposite of what she said. She had a borderline Miss South Carolina moment and lost.

They all asked topical questions. The gay guy asked a question about gay rights...oh noez, agenda...so fucking what. Is it not topical? Couldn't she have at least gotten the current legal status right? Or been able to articulate the situation at the very least?

She didn't lose because she disagreed with gay marriage, she lost because she fumbled through the answer.

I can see that. I certainly HOPE that's what they reasoned when they decided to knock off the front-runner.

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

The fact that gay marriage will be a reality in your country within your lifetime must be just eating you up inside, isn't it?

she didn't really take a position. she started off with some platitudes about choice and then said that she basically finds it icky and that in HER country, she wouldn't allow gay marriage.

Yeah, what did that mean, anyway? In HER country, it's currently LEGAL in four states, as Perez pointed out in his question. I found that a little...odd.

The fact that gay marriage will be a reality in your country within your lifetime must be just eating you up inside, isn't it?

Please don't goad him. This thread is NOT about gay marriage itself, as I have already pointed out to NM.

Please don't goad him. This thread is NOT about gay marriage itself, as I have already pointed out to NM.

Sore-wa kowai. Sounds scary.

Very well. ^_^ I do have some translating to undertake anyways.

Sore-wa kowai. Sounds scary.

Very well. ^_^ I do have some translating to undertake anyways.

Adigato gozaimas *bows*

she didn't really take a position. she started off with some platitudes about choice and then said that she basically finds it icky and that in HER country, she wouldn't allow gay marriage.

Well thats what Im saying, in Her country she would deny that right to choose whether to enter into a straight or gay marriage to other people, its segregation and wrong...

Uh...can you go into detail on that point, please? I'm not seeing the comparison.

Segregationists supported allowing some people to, say, vote, and others not to be able to...

Opponents to Gay Marriage support allowing some people to say, get married, and others not to be able to...

I would say that the latter only deserves the right to be 'Miss USA' if the former do as well, afterall, they are both personal beliefs...

pretty cut and dry, I would say...

Please don't goad him. This thread is NOT about gay marriage itself, as I have already pointed out to NM.

This is NM you're talking about. He'd goad himself even if everyone else took the high road.

This whole thing begs the question. Why do we still have these silly pageants, anyway?

This whole thing begs the question. Why do we still have these silly pageants, anyway?

Cause people still show up, pay attention to it, and pay money...

Why else? :wink:

This whole thing begs the question. Why do we still have these silly pageants, anyway?

To allow people to chat about them on forums?

To allow people to chat about them on forums?

True. If we didn't have stupid things and moronic people to discuss, we'd have nothing. At least, nothing funny.

They should just have awarded it to the girl with the biggest tits.

They should just have awarded it to the girl with the biggest tits.

Yeah but then this could potentially win..... (http://www.nypost.com/seven/02042009/news/nationalnews/texas_woman_breaks_breast_implant_record_153538.htm)

It's a beauty pageant. Part of their score is based on how they look in swimsuits. I don't think how they answer topical questions comes into it, that's probably just added so as to forstall the protests.

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE. And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear. No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

Dude, calm down, you're going to burst something.

It's a beauty pageant. Part of their score is based on how they look in swimsuits. I don't think how they answer topical questions comes into it, that's probably just added so as to forstall the protests.



Dude, calm down, you're going to burst something.

Naaa I'm all for letting little minded bigots blow of as much steam as they like. The truth is the world is changing, people are thinking differantly from their grand parents, and nasty litte bigots can't stop it and it drives them crazy. I like that, it makes me laugh.:D

Question Two, should a pageant be a "gotcha" moment for a gay judge to push his agenda?
Who gives a flying fuck? It's a beauty pageant; it's a show of how shallow and superficial people are. Why does it matter that she lost for answering a question the wrong way? It's a god damn popularity contest and thus a valid question. If she doesn't answer a question the right way, she loses the popularity contest. That's how it works.

Who gives a flying fuck? It's a beauty pageant; it's a show of how shallow and superficial people are. Why does it matter that she lost for answering a question the wrong way? It's a god damn popularity contest and thus a valid question. If she doesn't answer a question the right way, she loses the popularity contest. That's how it works.

Also if you represent a group that is obviously not being treated in the same fair way as the rest of society then every oppertunity is a valid one for a 'gotcha' moment to push your agenda.

I feel sorry for the girl, actually. In a popularity contest, the only correct answer to a question about gay marriage is to dodge the question, sadly. You're going to get booed if you take a stand either way. She should've just admitted ignorance as to the constitutionality of it, made some bland remark about honoring the constitution and the will of the majority and sidestepped the whole thing. But that could be tough to do on the fly with any eloquence.

Naaa I'm all for letting little minded bigots blow of as much steam as they like. The truth is the world is changing, people are thinking differantly from their grand parents, and nasty litte bigots can't stop it and it drives them crazy. I like that, it makes me laugh.:D

It should be noted that it's not the sentiment I disagree with, so much as it is the spittle-flecked delivery. But I don't want to hijack the thread, so that's all I'll say on the matter.

It should be noted that it's not the sentiment I disagree with, so much as it is the spittle-flecked delivery. But I don't want to hijack the thread, so that's all I'll say on the matter.

Ahh relax man, I was just giving our resident bigot like for like.

How the fuck is asking about gay marriage a "gotcha" question or a "hard" question? I think that's the easiest damn question they could be asked. It's like asking her if Jim Crow laws are bad, only it's even easier because she doesn't have to know what the fuck Jim Crow means.

Bet you it won't be long before she gets a "special" award from the Fundie/Prop 8 crowd.

Not quite Miss South Carolina from 2008 (http://omg.yahoo.com/news/perez-hilton-the-way-miss-california-answered-her-question-lost-her-the-crown/21528?nc), but.....



So a gay pageant judge asks a gay marriage question of Miss...California. I know they claim those judges are selected to ask their questions at random, but this seems a bit fishy, given the Prop 8 mess.

Coincidences/conspiracies aside, is it fair that Miss CA gets one of the most divisive issues in recent US political and social history and Miss SC gets a softball about whether or not taxpayer money should bail out banks?

Question Two, should a pageant be a "gotcha" moment for a gay judge to push his agenda?

Question Three, if Miss CA's loss was indeed a result of her answer to the gay marriage question, why? If the answer is unpopular, shouldn't someone looking to represent the USA -- a nation steeped in dissent, the hearing of minority opinions, and admiration for those who buck the system and challenge orthodoxy -- be praised for sticking to her guns when she could easily have given the "popular" answer?

I don't normally care at all for pageants, but this incident has me thinking. What about you?
they all had political questions.

the winner was asked her opinion of the stimulus--whether or not its a good idea to be spending such an enormous amount of money.

she said "no"; the crowd went wild.

Why do I bother?

Now i read the title of this thread and i envisioned the Queen of England victorious in a knife fight with one of the Princesses intent on stealing the throne.

Not quite Miss South Carolina from 2008 (http://omg.yahoo.com/news/perez-hilton-the-way-miss-california-answered-her-question-lost-her-the-crown/21528?nc), but.....



So a gay pageant judge asks a gay marriage question of Miss...California. I know they claim those judges are selected to ask their questions at random, but this seems a bit fishy, given the Prop 8 mess.

Coincidences/conspiracies aside, is it fair that Miss CA gets one of the most divisive issues in recent US political and social history and Miss SC gets a softball about whether or not taxpayer money should bail out banks?

Question Two, should a pageant be a "gotcha" moment for a gay judge to push his agenda?

Question Three, if Miss CA's loss was indeed a result of her answer to the gay marriage question, why? If the answer is unpopular, shouldn't someone looking to represent the USA -- a nation steeped in dissent, the hearing of minority opinions, and admiration for those who buck the system and challenge orthodoxy -- be praised for sticking to her guns when she could easily have given the "popular" answer?

I don't normally care at all for pageants, but this incident has me thinking. What about you?

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. :)

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. :)

No way! Hot dumb chicks are a National Treasure!

No way! Hot dumb chicks are a National Treasure!

Hot smart chicks are more sexually innovative. :)

No way! Hot dumb chicks are a National Treasure!

Yes and should be protected from all(except me)

How the fuck is asking about gay marriage a "gotcha" question or a "hard" question? I think that's the easiest damn question they could be asked. It's like asking her if Jim Crow laws are bad, only it's even easier because she doesn't have to know what the fuck Jim Crow means.
I disagree. I think that, given the circumstances, all those issues questions were "gotcha" questions. The focus of these pageants is all about looks and being a good "Stepford wife". The contestants are trained to deliver rote remarks to standard cliches -- world peace, children, girls going to school = good, and so forth. I only saw the clips of this on the news, but it did strike me that the only effect any of the questions had was to catch the girls off guard and make them look incredibly stupid, just adding a vicious little twist to exploiting a negative stereotype. I didn't like it at all.

Now, if these pageants were to start moving away from a parade of dolls to something that actually does show off the talents and intelligence of the women as well as their looks, then asking tough questions that require complex thought would be an okay thing.

But the questions this time, and especially the gay marriage one, were so hotly controversial that there was no way to give a "correct" or "acceptable" answer. There was no way that any answer would serve just to show off the intelligence and poise of the contestant (which is the point of asking the questions, supposedly). Any answer was going to get a partisan response yay or nay from the audience. Any answer was going to make the contestant a target of somebody's ire. What was the goal? To test whether a young woman can handle being a Miss USA who is viciously hated by a big chunk of the public for her personal opinion about something she is not an expert on?

I don't like pageants, but even so, I think those questions were inappropriate to the venue and were unfair to the contestants.

Hot smart chicks are more sexually innovative. :)

Yes but hot smart chicks wont sleep with me ;P

Yes but hot smart chicks wont sleep with me ;P

Yes well, true that you have to work a lot harder to get a hot smart chick than a hot dumb chick, but I'd rather work for something worth having than get free crap. :p

The fact that gay marriage will be a reality in your country within your lifetime must be just eating you up inside, isn't it?

Gay marriage is a reality in the US--we just have a federal system so policy implementation is patchy, slow and inefficient. A fact that is designed to retard bad policies makes it so that good policies are also hindered.

How the fuck is asking about gay marriage a "gotcha" question or a "hard" question? I think that's the easiest damn question they could be asked. It's like asking her if Jim Crow laws are bad, only it's even easier because she doesn't have to know what the fuck Jim Crow means.
Also, Bottle, come on -- she thought people have the right to choose same sex marriage in "her country". It's like she had no idea that there even is a struggle going on.

You know, actually, her answer could have been just the blatherings of a panicking person caught off guard with no script to follow, but on the other hand, it made me wonder if there are a lot of people in California who don't actually understand what Prop 8 did there.

I don't normally care at all for pageants, but this incident has me thinking. What about you?
That there are too many beauty pagents.

This particular one promotes sexism while dissing equality.....meh!!

I'm torn...I hate Perez Hilton on the basis that said individual is associated with the "entertainment industry manufactured gossip media" in some way shape or form that I don't fully comprehend. I also doubt that this was a nail in the chick's coffin.

But I think that there should be gay marriage. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Well thats what Im saying, in Her country she would deny that right to choose whether to enter into a straight or gay marriage to other people, its segregation and wrong...


Segregationists supported allowing some people to, say, vote, and others not to be able to...

Opponents to Gay Marriage support allowing some people to say, get married, and others not to be able to...

I would say that the latter only deserves the right to be 'Miss USA' if the former do as well, afterall, they are both personal beliefs...

pretty cut and dry, I would say...

Fair enough.

How the fuck is asking about gay marriage a "gotcha" question or a "hard" question? I think that's the easiest damn question they could be asked. It's like asking her if Jim Crow laws are bad, only it's even easier because she doesn't have to know what the fuck Jim Crow means.

At a beauty pageant?

they all had political questions.

the winner was asked her opinion of the stimulus--whether or not its a good idea to be spending such an enormous amount of money.

she said "no"; the crowd went wild.

That's my point, though. How the hell would you ever say "yes" to that question in front of a pageant crowd? A crowd which, by definition, is already possessed of a mob mentality. Meanwhile, the crowd is likely 50-50 on gay marriage. Miss CA was doomed from the start, and the fact that a flaming queer asked the question was no help.

I disagree. I think that, given the circumstances, all those issues questions were "gotcha" questions. The focus of these pageants is all about looks and being a good "Stepford wife". The contestants are trained to deliver rote remarks to standard cliches -- world peace, children, girls going to school = good, and so forth. I only saw the clips of this on the news, but it did strike me that the only effect any of the questions had was to catch the girls off guard and make them look incredibly stupid, just adding a vicious little twist to exploiting a negative stereotype. I didn't like it at all.

Now, if these pageants were to start moving away from a parade of dolls to something that actually does show off the talents and intelligence of the women as well as their looks, then asking tough questions that require complex thought would be an okay thing.

But the questions this time, and especially the gay marriage one, were so hotly controversial that there was no way to give a "correct" or "acceptable" answer. There was no way that any answer would serve just to show off the intelligence and poise of the contestant (which is the point of asking the questions, supposedly). Any answer was going to get a partisan response yay or nay from the audience. Any answer was going to make the contestant a target of somebody's ire. What was the goal? To test whether a young woman can handle being a Miss USA who is viciously hated by a big chunk of the public for her personal opinion about something she is not an expert on?

I don't like pageants, but even so, I think those questions were inappropriate to the venue and were unfair to the contestants.

So very this. ^

Yes well, true that you have to work a lot harder to get a hot smart chick than a hot dumb chick, but I'd rather work for something worth having than get free crap. :p

AMEN. Amen twice!

But the questions this time, and especially the gay marriage one, were so hotly controversial that there was no way to give a "correct" or "acceptable" answer. There was no way that any answer would serve just to show off the intelligence and poise of the contestant (which is the point of asking the questions, supposedly). Any answer was going to get a partisan response yay or nay from the audience. Any answer was going to make the contestant a target of somebody's ire. What was the goal? To test whether a young woman can handle being a Miss USA who is viciously hated by a big chunk of the public for her personal opinion about something she is not an expert on?

A correct answer probably would have been one that avoids the question. If your job is to make everyone happy by giving responses that are just meaningless fluff, then this is what you should do. If you can't do that, you shouldn't win.

I don't like pageants, but even so, I think those questions were inappropriate to the venue and were unfair to the contestants.

Maybe. But there's still a small part of me (probably a remnant from high school mistreatment) that doesn't mind when bad things happen to stupid bimbos.

A correct answer probably would have been one that avoids the question. If your job is to make everyone happy by giving responses that are just meaningless fluff, then this is what you should do. If you can't do that, you shouldn't win.
Do you think that would have helped her, especially on the gay marriage question? Nowadays, there is no way to avoid being condemned by someone. You either say something and get condemned by whichever faction disagrees with what you say, or you say nothing and get condemned by those who want their issue to be on everyone's lips.

I'll be honest and say that I think a correct answer would have been to look at the guy who was asking the question and at the judges and say, in her best pageant voice, "What the fuck kind of a question is that? Am I the goddamned president now? What's wrong with you people? Do you think you're cute? Do you think you're topical? Do you think bringing bitter, angry controversy into a beauty pageant makes you look intellectual? I'm not going to be sacrificed on the altar of your desire to seem relevant to reality. Here's my answer: I think all children deserve to have a good life and as Miss USA I will work hard to raise consciousness of the needs of all the children of the world. There. Suck on that."

But then I'm not really interested in winning a pageant.

Maybe. But there's still a small part of me (probably a remnant from high school mistreatment) that doesn't mind when bad things happen to stupid bimbos.
There's a big part of me that doesn't like cutsie "gotcha" BS even if it is pulled on someone who represents something I don't like.

A correct answer probably would have been one that avoids the question. If your job is to make everyone happy by giving responses that are just meaningless fluff, then this is what you should do. If you can't do that, you shouldn't win.





Something along the lines of Democracy is a great thing, as is the American court system in the end the right thing is always done.

Do you think that would have helped her, especially on the gay marriage question? Nowadays, there is no way to avoid being condemned by someone. You either say something and get condemned by whichever faction disagrees with what you say, or you say nothing and get condemned by those who want their issue to be on everyone's lips.

I'll be honest and say that I think a correct answer would have been to look at the guy who was asking the question and at the judges and say, in her best pageant voice, "What the fuck kind of a question is that? Am I the goddamned president now? What's wrong with you people? Do you think you're cute? Do you think you're topical? Do you think bringing bitter, angry controversy into a beauty pageant makes you look intellectual? I'm not going to be sacrificed on the altar of your desire to seem relevant to reality. Here's my answer: I think all children deserve to have a good life and as Miss USA I will work hard to raise consciousness of the needs of all the children of the world. There. Suck on that."

But then I'm not really interested in winning a pageant.

Actually, I think that greed and death sort of nailed it.

You don't talk about the specific question really. All you do is go "rah rah! Democracy!" "rah! rah! Go USA! We do the right thing eventually! It all works out in the end!" like a good little cheerleader. I mean, either that or wax poetic about how beautiful love in marriage are without answering the question at all. This would not get boos. And her job isn't really to answer the question. Her job is to respond to it in a way that makes the crowd happy.

There's a big part of me that doesn't like cutsie "gotcha" BS even if it is pulled on someone who represents something I don't like.

I don't understand this "gotcha" thing.

Something along the lines of Democracy is a great thing, as is the American court system in the end the right thing is always done.
That would have been an excellent answer, but I still think it would have been twisted by loudmouths on both sides of the issue to seem like she was rooting for one outcome or the other.

You know how some landmines work? You step on it, and you hear that click, and you know you're fucked. There is no way to get off it without a serious problem. She heard that question, and it was like hearing that click under your foot.

Even if a person is smart enough to think up the answer you suggest, you still can only feel okay with it if you fundamentally don't give a shit what the fallout will be. A "let the chips fall where they may" attitude is absolutely necessary. I can forgive anyone for not taking that attitude if they get blindsided by such a question in the middle of striving for something they desperately want (even if I think it's crap).

Also, Bottle, come on -- she thought people have the right to choose same sex marriage in "her country". It's like she had no idea that there even is a struggle going on.

You know, actually, her answer could have been just the blatherings of a panicking person caught off guard with no script to follow, but on the other hand, it made me wonder if there are a lot of people in California who don't actually understand what Prop 8 did there.

She's certainly doing nothing to stop the stereotype that blonds are stupid.

Actually, I think that greed and death sort of nailed it.

You don't talk about the specific question really. All you do is go "rah rah! Democracy!" "rah! rah! Go USA! We do the right thing eventually! It all works out in the end!" like a good little cheerleader. I mean, either that or wax poetic about how beautiful love in marriage are without answering the question at all. This would not get boos. And her job isn't really to answer the question. Her job is to respond to it in a way that makes the crowd happy.



I don't understand this "gotcha" thing.
I"m not going to disagree with you on the hypothetical. You're very likely to be right. However, I think I'm equally likely to be right. Such an answer might not have cost her the crown, but I think any answer would have brought trouble to her down the line, just based on what the question was.

As to the "gotcha" thing, my first post, which you responded to earlier, is the explanation of why I called it that.

That would have been an excellent answer, but I still think it would have been twisted by loudmouths on both sides of the issue to seem like she was rooting for one outcome or the other.

But that doesn't matter. Winning the contest isn't a matter of being on one side or the other. Winning the contest is a matter of not getting booed immediately after you close your mouth or providing a response that isn't ass. An answer like that doesn't give anyone anything to boo about (how can you boo democracy?) and people can make up whatever they want later, but it doesn't matter because you've won. And really, after the contest is over she can (if asked further) point out that there was no way to answer the question without angering one group or another so she took a middle road that didn't really go one way or another.

Even if a person is smart enough to think up the answer you suggest, you still can only feel okay with it if you fundamentally don't give a shit what the fallout will be. A "let the chips fall where they may" attitude is absolutely necessary. I can forgive anyone for not taking that attitude if they get blindsided by such a question in the middle of striving for something they desperately want (even if I think it's crap).

So it's better to give an answer that's going to piss people off for sure?

That would have been an excellent answer, but I still think it would have been twisted by loudmouths on both sides of the issue to seem like she was rooting for one outcome or the other.

You know how some landmines work? You step on it, and you hear that click, and you know you're fucked. There is no way to get off it without a serious problem. She heard that question, and it was like hearing that click under your foot.

Even if a person is smart enough to think up the answer you suggest, you still can only feel okay with it if you fundamentally don't give a shit what the fallout will be. A "let the chips fall where they may" attitude is absolutely necessary. I can forgive anyone for not taking that attitude if they get blindsided by such a question in the middle of striving for something they desperately want (even if I think it's crap).

I find most people when you give an ambiguous enough of an answer assume you side with them.
Besides who doesn't love democracy, courts, and puppy dogs?

I find most people when you give an ambiguous enough of an answer assume you side with them.
Besides who doesn't love democracy, courts, and puppy dogs?
Dick Cheney. I'm sure such an answer from a Miss USA contestant would have gotten him back on Hannity's show in a minute. ;)

But that doesn't matter. Winning the contest isn't a matter of being on one side or the other. Winning the contest is a matter of not getting booed immediately after you close your mouth or providing a response that isn't ass. An answer like that doesn't give anyone anything to boo about (how can you boo democracy?) and people can make up whatever they want later, but it doesn't matter because you've won. And really, after the contest is over she can (if asked further) point out that there was no way to answer the question without angering one group or another so she took a middle road that didn't really go one way or another.



So it's better to give an answer that's going to piss people off for sure?
Fine, then we disagree. I can live with that.

At a beauty pageant?

Um, yes?

Seriously, the Simpsons even parodied this, in that episode where Lisa is in a beauty pageant and one of the questions a contestant gets asked is, "Do you think the Constitution is a good thing, or a bad thing?"

This question about gay marriage was precisely the same question. Do you think the laws of this country apply equally to all citizens, as our Constitution states, or do you think the Constitution is wrong?

I'll be honest and say that I think a correct answer would have been to look at the guy who was asking the question and at the judges and say, in her best pageant voice, "What the fuck kind of a question is that? Am I the goddamned president now? What's wrong with you people? Do you think you're cute? Do you think you're topical? Do you think bringing bitter, angry controversy into a beauty pageant makes you look intellectual? I'm not going to be sacrificed on the altar of your desire to seem relevant to reality. Here's my answer: I think all children deserve to have a good life and as Miss USA I will work hard to raise consciousness of the needs of all the children of the world. There. Suck on that."

For what it's worth, I think all contestants should always give the same answer:

"Well Bob, this is a beauty pageant, and it's pretty pathetic of you to even suggest that anybody cares about my thoughts, feelings, or opinions. I'm here to be judged on my physical appearance and conformity to out-dated gender norms, so can we just get on with the bikini contest?"

Do you think that would have helped her, especially on the gay marriage question? Nowadays, there is no way to avoid being condemned by someone. You either say something and get condemned by whichever faction disagrees with what you say, or you say nothing and get condemned by those who want their issue to be on everyone's lips.

I'll be honest and say that I think a correct answer would have been to look at the guy who was asking the question and at the judges and say, in her best pageant voice, "What the fuck kind of a question is that? Am I the goddamned president now? What's wrong with you people? Do you think you're cute? Do you think you're topical? Do you think bringing bitter, angry controversy into a beauty pageant makes you look intellectual? I'm not going to be sacrificed on the altar of your desire to seem relevant to reality. Here's my answer: I think all children deserve to have a good life and as Miss USA I will work hard to raise consciousness of the needs of all the children of the world. There. Suck on that."

But then I'm not really interested in winning a pageant.


There's a big part of me that doesn't like cutsie "gotcha" BS even if it is pulled on someone who represents something I don't like.

I would have pulled a muscle cheering that answer.

I can see the Bottle/Dakini side of this -- the contestant's job is to be graceful and tactful and verbally "beautiful" (with an implication of vapidity) in their answers. If they can't answer gracefully and have three pat answer templates ready (one for SUPPORT, one for OPPOSE, and one for HOLY SHIT, IT'S KOBIYASHI MARU, EVADE, EVADE, EVADE!), then they're not the best contestant, and don't deserve the tiara.

As usual, the thoughtful women of NSG clarify with alacrity.

I just want to go on record as thinking that my thread title was reasonably clever. I'd hoped the topic would generate more than five pages, though. Oh well, another effort scuttled.

I just want to go on record as thinking that my thread title was reasonably clever. I'd hoped the topic would generate more than five pages, though. Oh well, another effort scuttled.

Join the queue

I just want to go on record as thinking that my thread title was reasonably clever. I'd hoped the topic would generate more than five pages, though. Oh well, another effort scuttled.
I, for one, will take this opportunity to commend you on your thread title. I lol every time I read it. :D

I, for one, will take this opportunity to commend you on your thread title. I lol every time I read it. :D

Honestly, I read the title, and I thought he was referring to them:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514XE5J2KZL._SS500_.jpg

I disagree. I think that, given the circumstances, all those issues questions were "gotcha" questions. The focus of these pageants is all about looks and being a good "Stepford wife". The contestants are trained to deliver rote remarks to standard cliches -- world peace, children, girls going to school = good, and so forth. I only saw the clips of this on the news, but it did strike me that the only effect any of the questions had was to catch the girls off guard and make them look incredibly stupid, just adding a vicious little twist to exploiting a negative stereotype. I didn't like it at all.

Now, if these pageants were to start moving away from a parade of dolls to something that actually does show off the talents and intelligence of the women as well as their looks, then asking tough questions that require complex thought would be an okay thing.

But the questions this time, and especially the gay marriage one, were so hotly controversial that there was no way to give a "correct" or "acceptable" answer. There was no way that any answer would serve just to show off the intelligence and poise of the contestant (which is the point of asking the questions, supposedly). Any answer was going to get a partisan response yay or nay from the audience. Any answer was going to make the contestant a target of somebody's ire. What was the goal? To test whether a young woman can handle being a Miss USA who is viciously hated by a big chunk of the public for her personal opinion about something she is not an expert on?

I don't like pageants, but even so, I think those questions were inappropriate to the venue and were unfair to the contestants.
This.^

The point is that it was an agenda-based question that she could not have answered in a way that wouldn't have made her look bad to ateast half the crowd . . . it was unfair.

Not quite Miss South Carolina from 2008 (http://omg.yahoo.com/news/perez-hilton-the-way-miss-california-answered-her-question-lost-her-the-crown/21528?nc), but.....



So a gay pageant judge asks a gay marriage question of Miss...California. I know they claim those judges are selected to ask their questions at random, but this seems a bit fishy, given the Prop 8 mess.

Coincidences/conspiracies aside, is it fair that Miss CA gets one of the most divisive issues in recent US political and social history and Miss SC gets a softball about whether or not taxpayer money should bail out banks?

Question Two, should a pageant be a "gotcha" moment for a gay judge to push his agenda?

Question Three, if Miss CA's loss was indeed a result of her answer to the gay marriage question, why? If the answer is unpopular, shouldn't someone looking to represent the USA -- a nation steeped in dissent, the hearing of minority opinions, and admiration for those who buck the system and challenge orthodoxy -- be praised for sticking to her guns when she could easily have given the "popular" answer?

I don't normally care at all for pageants, but this incident has me thinking. What about you?

Her answer was stupid. Not "US American's in South Africa can't afford maps" stupid, but "you people make me sick and deserve no rights, you pile of shit... no offense, it's just what I think" stupid.

I've never been of the opinion that people ought to be praised for admitting to believing awful things just because it's what they believe, and to admit it exposes them to ridicule. When people confess to crimes no one ever says "It must have taken a lot of courage to admit to doing those awful things. He should get a medal."

Having the courage to expose yourself to ridicule ought to expose you to ridicule. If it exposes you to praise, then it's not courage, it's showing off.

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

And Miss Perez Hilton is a meat-smoking idiot, a nothing and a nobody, as the response to his flaming You Tube post makes perfectly clear.

No "gay marriage". No civil unions. No recognition of ANY kind for sodomites, starting with Perez Hilton.

You're not even trying anymore. :(

Props to Carrie Prejean for stating the truth and defying the out-of-control sexual deviant HATERS in this country. It is DAMN good and time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Marriage = one man + one woman. END OF ISSUE.

Considering states keep legalizing gay marriage, with the legistlature now, I hardly think its the end of the issue:D

Considering states keep legalizing gay marriage, with the legistlature now, I hardly think its the end of the issue:D
What? You mean you have not been shamed into silence and defeat by one babbling beauty queen? Tsk. You're incorrigible. :p

Considering states keep legalizing gay marriage, with the legistlature now, I hardly think its the end of the issue:D

You do realize he's been banned for three days for threatening you, right? :p