NationStates Jolt Archive

In local news (Only about 30 miles from where I live) the head of the NAACP called for Erie Police Officer James Cousins to resign from his job over comment made while drunk, seems someone recorded the whole thing and posted it on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAHMsCO3Diw) (I haven't watched it because my speakers are messed up, whats the point of watching something without sound?).

ERIE, Pa. - The head of the NAACP says a western Pennsylvania police officer should resign over an Internet video showing him in a bar, apparently intoxicated, joking about a homicide victim.

Erie patrol officer James Cousins II was suspended for the profanity-laced off-duty rant in which he talks about 31-year-old Rondale Jennings Sr. who was shot in the head outside a bar last month.

The victim's mother told CNN on Sunday that she was "shocked and disturbed" by the video posted online. Benjamin Jealous, president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, told CNN the officer should resign.

The president of Erie's African American Concerned Clergy has called for the officer's dismissal.

Erie police say they are investigating. Cousins has been suspended with pay from his full-time job and without pay from a part-time position with a neighboring borough.

So anyway, NSG, armed with YouTube video and news article; what do the masses say?

I guess, I can't really hear everything he's saying but the simple fact is that he's caught on camera making light of a murder victim.

Happens all the time, there's little better conversation than hearing a night-shift nurse tell tales of patients. Does this affect his/her ability to perform his duties, possibly, people have to blow off steam and humour is one of the best means of doing so, public opinion doesn't tend to accept that however and since public opinion is important to the effectiveness of the police force, I guess the police officer will have to face some sort of retribution.

In all the talk about public security cameras, we forget it could be your friend with a cell phone, never have we been so recorded, whether in writing or video.

Similar to the office, don't think your office email belongs to you, it doesn't, so don't send stupid stuff through your office email.

I don't think he should lose his job, sure what he did is unprofessional and yes he is a representative of the community at large but he is also human and he's not the first or last person to say things like that, especially not while drunk. People are overreacting because it was posted on YouTube.

I agree with Barringtonia.

Not in uniform, not breaking the law, not the concern of the city.
please do we need any more pissed off cops in the world?
We take away their right to get drunk and talk shit, they will be much much more pissed off if they cant get drunk and talk shit.

eh, cops have one of the dirtiest most thankless jobs in the country....they go through a lot and see a lot of bad stuff and deal with the worst of society...hes entitled to get drunk once in a while on his free time and vent a little. Not cool of his friend to make that public.

I see this only ending badly if it has a large fallout.

eh, cops have one of the dirtiest most thankless jobs in the country....they go through a lot and see a lot of bad stuff and deal with the worst of society...hes entitled to get drunk once in a while on his free time and vent a little. Not cool of his friend to make that public.

I am sure his friend was a funny joke and he emailed it to someone who was applauded and put it on youtube.

In reality, he will probably lose his job.

In my world, he'd be suspended but not fired for being stupid enough to rant like that in public (drunk or not -- drink should be part of the offense, never the excuse)...and the guy who posted the video of this guy NOT breaking the law, and NOT showing beliefs that have any provable connection to the performance of his duties would be followed around covertly for a week by hidden cameras and his various, perfectly legal "exploits" would be aired on YouTube. Fucking douchebag.

I guess, I can't really hear everything he's saying but the simple fact is that he's caught on camera making light of a murder victim.

Happens all the time, there's little better conversation than hearing a night-shift nurse tell tales of patients. Does this affect his/her ability to perform his duties, possibly, people have to blow off steam and humour is one of the best means of doing so, public opinion doesn't tend to accept that however and since public opinion is important to the effectiveness of the police force, I guess the police officer will have to face some sort of retribution.

I imagine that in jobs that deal with illness, death, and/or the darker side of humanity in general a sense of black humor quickly becomes a necessary coping tool.

I imagine that in jobs that deal with illness, death, and/or the darker side of humanity in general a sense of black humor quickly becomes a necessary coping tool.

And most people don't seem to be able to appreciate that.

So the official opinion in this case is that the NAACP should shove it up their ass.

I imagine that in jobs that deal with illness, death, and/or the darker side of humanity in general a sense of black humor quickly becomes a necessary coping tool.
Yes, but for the media and other crydogs who make it a point to "get in touch with their sensitive side" and force everyone to, humour is a crime.

So the official opinion in this case is that the NAACP should shove it up their ass.

Pretty much. I'd agree with that.

So the official opinion in this case is that the NAACP should shove it up their ass.

Yeah, would they be saying the same thing if the cop spoke about a non-coloured person?

Cops, district attorneys, criminal lawyers (etc.) make morbid jokes all the time. It's one way of dealing with the horror of some of the stuff they see. I'm not in the mood to watch YouTube right now, but unless it was something really specifically offensive, I think he should get a pass.

I don't know if he should resign or lose his job, but I don't think it would be out of order to suspend him for conduct unbecoming an officer, at the very least. We don't even know what privacy restrictions might have been placed on that information, and its dissemination without prior written consent, like in baseball, is illegal.

I don't know if he should resign or lose his job, but I don't think it would be out of order to suspend him for conduct unbecoming an officer, at the very least. We don't even know what privacy restrictions might have been placed on that information, and its dissemination without prior written consent, like in baseball, is illegal.

They're rebroadcasting Major League Baseball games with implied oral consent, not express written consent...or so the legend goes.

They're rebroadcasting Major League Baseball games with implied oral consent, not express written consent...or so the legend goes.

Really? That's greatly confusing.

"Can we tape this game?"
"Maybe... wait for the announcers to explain."
"They said I need "implied oral consent" to tape it. So... can I tape it?"
"Do whatever you want, I don't care. That's implied consent, tight?


That was more greatly confusing.

I don't know if he should resign or lose his job, but I don't think it would be out of order to suspend him for conduct unbecoming an officer, at the very least.
The problem they see is with the fact of making a joke, not the conduct.

I don't think he should lose his job, sure what he did is unprofessional and yes he is a representative of the community at large but he is also human and he's not the first or last person to say things like that, especially not while drunk. People are overreacting because it was posted on YouTube.

Police officer acting unprofessional = lose his job in my opinion.
It's their job to be professional.

The magnitude of his comments here... definitely should lose his job. Shocked that I am the first person out of about 20 or so to vote yes. I bet most of you would be voting yes too if that victim was a relative.

It's their job to be professional.
While on duty.

While on duty.

I disagree, they should be acting professional off duty as well, in my opinion. As a law enforcement officer he represents the community. It's a tough break for him that this got on YouTube, yes, but they should be aware of that possibility while they are in an establishment in which he is in.

Maybe I am old fashioned to hold people like this to higher standard, but when you have that badge, your duty is to protect and serve, and also respect the community. He failed to do that. Leave these jokes for your best buddies in a less populated setting.

I disagree, they should be acting professional off duty as well, in my opinion. As a law enforcement officer he represents the community.
You can't be tight-ass all the time. You'll either burn out or break out. Sometimes, people have to spit everything out, it's one of the reasons they get drunk. Do you think he laughed when he has seen that body? I assure you, he didn't.

And I've seen the video - he didn't even say anything specifically offensive or wrong. Or have I missed something? All I've noticed was the excessive use of the adjective "fucking", heavy alcohol intoxication, and laughs without reason.


It's a tough break for him that this got on YouTube, yes, but they should be aware of that possibility while they are in an establishment in which he is in.
Why is that? A few years ago, it was a non-possibility for the lack of youtubes. I support the freedom of speech and reporting, but with that freedom has to come the relaxation of judgement. It's not a public statement he's making there, it's a spy video.

He should be sacked. By which I mean he should be put in a sack, which would then be thrown into the river. And then the local community should be invited to turn up to his funeral and heckle and shout out jokes throughout.

Like people that work in hospitals, I would assume that coppers need to get a very good maybe even dry and morbid sense of humour to cope with the worst aspects of the job. He did nowt wrong as far as I can see. He hurt some peoples feelings, shit man that goes on here everyday.

He should be sacked. By which I mean he should be put in a sack, which would then be thrown into the river. And then the local community should be invited to turn up to his funeral and heckle and shout out jokes throughout.

Ah yes, the marble statue demand. Like the demand that teachers never be seen drinking or smoking out of work that the rest of the common laymen will happily indulge in and never think twice, much less castigate, for doing it in public.

After all, quite a few NSG'ers here make morbid jokes about the death of people, bad or good all the time. No one ever dresses them down for it or calls for them to be fired. No one ever gets in a fit when people describe their desires for fatal harm to befall another. But the moment someone with a face does so, is instantly becomes taboo.

Hypocrisy, the hallmark of human nature that makes them two faced scum.

Hypocrisy, the hallmark of human nature that makes them two faced scum.

Umm us, you mean us surley?

Ah yes, the marble statue demand. Like the demand that teachers never be seen drinking or smoking out of work that the rest of the common laymen will happily indulge in and never think twice, much less castigate, for doing it in public.

After all, quite a few NSG'ers here make morbid jokes about the death of people, bad or good all the time. No one ever dresses them down for it or calls for them to be fired. No one ever gets in a fit when people describe their desires for fatal harm to befall another. But the moment someone with a face does so, is instantly becomes taboo.

Hypocrisy, the hallmark of human nature that makes them two faced scum.

In defense of DI, she's usually making her point by making the point of the opposition in the most farcical possible manner.

Ah yes, the marble statue demand. Like the demand that teachers never be seen drinking or smoking out of work that the rest of the common laymen will happily indulge in and never think twice, much less castigate, for doing it in public.

Hypocrisy, the hallmark of human nature that makes them two faced scum.

As much as I hate to descend into the gloomy realm of seriousness, and as much as I was largely taking the piss and overstating the argument for comic effect, that a completely irrelevant comparison that doesn't really do much credence to the argument. A far more relevant comparison would be if the teacher got drunk in a bar and then started making jokes about kids in their class. I agree with the general point, but I'm not sure if this officer went too far, in a way that makes his action potentially damaging to the credibility of the force.

Umm us, you mean us surley?

Unless NSG was mostly populated by Replicants, which isn't supposed to happen yet, yes.

As much as I hate to descend into the gloomy realm of seriousness, and as much as I was largely taking the piss and overstating the argument for comic effect, that a completely irrelevant comparison that doesn't really do much credence to the argument. A far more relevant comparison would be if the teacher got drunk in a bar and then started making jokes about kids in their class.


Considering that some time back a teacher was fired for just exactly what I outlined, yes, I do think the comparison is quite relevant. The demands for so-called moral pillars in the community when the parents themselves cannot live up the standards they demand of educators is nothing more than being a two faced hypocrite who can't even be arsed to set an example for their own while demanding that others do so. I find the attitudes among those who suspended this police officer as well as those who think it just are no better than the earlier mentioned sorry excuse for parents.

Considering that some time back a teacher was fired for just exactly what I outlined, yes, I do think the comparison is quite relevant. The demands for so-called moral pillars in the community when the parents themselves cannot live up the standards they demand of educators is nothing more than being a two faced hypocrite who can't even be arsed to set an example for their own while demanding that others do so. I find the attitudes among those who suspended this police officer as well as those who think it just are no better than the earlier mentioned sorry excuse for parents.

Just because someone was also fired for that doesn't make it comparable. You would not deny, surely, that there is a substantial difference of scale between

1. Having a drink or smoking in a moderate manner
and
2. Getting totally pissed and making inappropriate jokes about a sensitive part of your work, and not stopping even when you can surely not have failed to see someone filming it.

So someone got sacked for doing 1. in your area. Well, thats idiotic, but it doesn't mean we can automatically dismiss the second case of a far different scale. In its content, this case does not resemble the one you talk about apart from in the very vaguest and abstract terms.

Ancient Chinese proverb: Apples and oranges comparison make argument go pear-shaped and person making argument look like lemon :p

Yeah, would they be saying the same thing if the cop spoke about a non-coloured person?

Without a doubt not.

Without a doubt not.

All depends I would say. What was said, if he told a racist joke, do you mean?

All depends I would say. What was said, if he told a racist joke, do you mean?

Did he tell a racist joke? I haven't watched the video, and I've been operating under the assumption that he was just being crude--not racist.

You would not deny, surely, that there is a substantial difference of scale between
1. Having a drink or smoking in a moderate manner
and
2. Getting totally pissed and making inappropriate jokes about a sensitive part of your work, and not stopping even when you can surely not have failed to see someone filming it.
Difference, schmifference. If he's off duty, it's his personal time when he has the right to get drunk like a skunk all he wants.

24/7 jobs are supposed to pay more than 8/5 ones, and be explicitly marked as such.

While police is a 24/7 service, individual policemen aren't, even if on flexible schedule, unlike, say, military servicemen.

Did he tell a racist joke? I haven't watched the video, and I've been operating under the assumption that he was just being crude--not racist.

Heh no. As far as I know he was jokeing and swearing about a murder victim. The question was put what if it was not a victim of murder but say a black man her was joking and swearing about.

I was really asking, what form did this joking take? If he simply told a joke, then I would say that even if we swapped the butt of the joke for the black man, then I still say he shouldn't be sacked.

Yeah, would they be saying the same thing if the cop spoke about a non-coloured person?

Without a doubt not.

Well, since they're the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People...

Yeah, would they be saying the same thing if the cop spoke about a non-coloured person?

Heh no. As far as I know he was jokeing and swearing about a murder victim. The question was put what if it was not a victim of murder but say a black man her was joking and swearing about.

I thought it was put as a question of what if it was a white/East Asian/Indian/Hispanic guy who was the butt of the joke instead of a black guy, would the NAACP say anything?

Just because someone was also fired for that doesn't make it comparable. You would not deny, surely, that there is a substantial difference of scale between

Yes, I would deny that there is a substantial difference. If John A. Moron can take a piss at dead people while off work and get away with it with a laugh, so can John A. Cop. There is no sensible reason at all to get in a huff over what someone says out of work that another person could and not bat an eyelid. When that uniform comes off, you stop being a cop and are no different than any other person, with the same freedoms and restrictions that anyone else would have.

That people don't allow it for certain professions is nothing more than a double standard that hypocrites love to throw around in a fit of ego padding.

I was really asking, what form did this joking take? If he simply told a joke, then I would say that even if we swapped the butt of the joke for the black man, then I still say he shouldn't be sacked.
I haven't noticed anything about blackness in his speech, but then he was so drunk the words are barely discernible. Basically he went along the lines of "there was a fucking dead guy right on the fucking sidewalk by a fucking bar and there was fucking blood every fucking where". Everyone was laughing like crazy, though, not just the polite laugh. They were extremely drunk too.

When that uniform comes off, you stop being a cop and are no different than any other person, with the same freedoms and restrictions that anyone else would have.

That people don't allow it for certain professions is nothing more than a double standard that hypocrites love to throw around in a fit of ego padding.
In the UK at least, police, like some other professionals, can't join certain organisations (i.e., the BNP) that would compromise their job. They are less free in their actions than other civilians. We discussed this in one of Nesskia's threads recently.

I don't see how the above is a "fit of ego padding", more a precaution against abuse.

(Note that I'm talking generally, not about the specifics of this case; of which I am not familiar.)

Well the part where he says "Even if you put a tie on him, he's still a turd." and "We're sitting there thinking 'Well at least that's another drug dealer off the streets'." isn't really right, and I think that may be based on racism. I think he should lose his job

Unless the victim was really a drug dealer. Then maybe he shouldn't.

Officer Cousins will not lose his job: http://www.wicu12.com/news/index.vnss?newsid=7465&type=News

He also wrote an apology for his actions: http://www.wicu12.com/news/index.vnss?newsid=7465&type=News

He should absolutely lose his job.

As a police officer, he is a public servant and a representative of the police force. He doesn't stop being a representative of the police force when he's not in his squad car or in his uniform.

He should absolutely lose his job.

As a police officer, he is a public servant and a representative of the police force. He doesn't stop being a representative of the police force when he's not in his squad car or in his uniform.

Going by your logic anytime you bad mouth someone you work with or make a comment about one of the customers you cater too at your job then you should be fired.

I imagine that in jobs that deal with illness, death, and/or the darker side of humanity in general a sense of black humor quickly becomes a necessary coping tool.

Yeah seriously if I wasn't allowed to vent in some way I'd probably go crazy. Oh wait too late.

Officer Cousins will not lose his job: http://www.wicu12.com/news/index.vnss?newsid=7465&type=News

He also wrote an apology for his actions: http://www.wicu12.com/news/index.vnss?newsid=7465&type=News

The suspension without pay and sensitivity training is ridiculous.
God I hate sensitivity classes, they are the biggest waste of time know to man. Had to take those 3 times while I was in the army.

Well, since they're the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People...

But that's my point what the policeman said was not racist and could have been applied to a caucasian murder victim just as much as to a coloured victim. What I am asking would the NAACP being calling the same outcry if he wasn't coloured or are they simply just a bunch of hypocrites who have nothing better to do but think that anything said about a coloured person even when it is not racist must be holding coloured people back.

But that's my point what the policeman said was not racist and could have been applied to a caucasian murder victim just as much as to a coloured victim. What I am asking would the NAACP being calling the same outcry if he wasn't coloured or are they simply just a bunch of hypocrites who have nothing better to do but think that anything said about a coloured person even when it is not racist must be holding coloured people back.

Sometimes Blouman I think they evolved into the latter; which really does nothing but hold them back.

On just that? Hell No.

He was drinking and talking about something that happened to him or another cop on the job. WuuUUfFF.

As long as he wasn't involved in a cover up, or involved in it at all .. I don't see the problem.

And bitch smack that fucker who was holding the camera.

Says the murder victims mother was shocked and outraged when she saw this video.

Oh my oh my .. I wonder how she saw it. As far as I see.. they are trying to get someone for simply talking about something in their local bar when having a buzz. This isn't a conspiracy. Let them reporters coem to my door and try some shit like this if/when something bad happens to me or my family.. I'd tell them right quick to stick it.

But that's my point what the policeman said was not racist and could have been applied to a caucasian murder victim just as much as to a coloured victim. What I am asking would the NAACP being calling the same outcry if he wasn't coloured or are they simply just a bunch of hypocrites who have nothing better to do but think that anything said about a coloured person even when it is not racist must be holding coloured people back.

Why would they have anything to say about a non-coloured person?

I'd say they're involved because it's seen as another example of the institutional racism in police forces, seeing black people as nothing but another drug dealer, and when dead at least they're off the streets and generally being light-hearted about their death.

Whether that was actually his attitude or not, I don't see any hypocrisy in the NAACP commenting on a case where a white policeman is being insensitive about a dead black person, given they're all about Coloured people's rights and not non-coloured people.

Why would they have anything to say about a non-coloured person?

I'd say they're involved because it's seen as another example of the institutional racism in police forces, seeing black people as nothing but another drug dealer, and when dead at least they're off the streets and generally being light-hearted about their death.

Whether that was actually his attitude or not, I don't see any hypocrisy in the NAACP commenting on a case where a white policeman is being insensitive about a dead black person, given they're all about Coloured people's rights and not non-coloured people.

But that isn't what this was about. The policeman was saying he was lying there dead a hole in his head and blood spurting everywhere. Could be easily applied to any dead Asian or Caucaisn. If they really think it was wrong that a policeman joked about the murder of a person they should speak out against it when it happens to a non-coloured person, if they don't think it is a problem then that is blatant racism.

But that isn't what this was about. The policeman was saying he was lying there dead a hole in his head and blood spurting everywhere. Could be easily applied to any dead Asian or Caucaisn. If they really think it was wrong that a policeman joked about the murder of a person they should speak out against it when it happens to a non-coloured person, if they don't think it is a problem then that is blatant racism.

Well, yet again, the title of the organisation sort of hints at the racial slant to their work, they're interested in the advancement of coloured people, not in police abuse overall but only when it involves coloured people.

The point of their work is racial issues against coloured people, anything that falls under that is an area they'll likely be involved in, whether it's police abuse, vote fraud, education discrimination or whatever.

Finally, I don't think they just jumped on this, it was brought to their attention by the mother of the victim, though I need to double check that so I might edit.

EDIT: I was wrong, not sure how they came to see the video...

NAACP speaks out

Jealous said the NAACP decided to get involved in the issue involving the YouTube video because of the organization's longtime focus on law enforcement accountability. Cousins never mentions the race of anyone he talks about in the video, but Jealous said it is implied.

"We focus on law enforcement accountability, not all of those cases involve acts of racism," he said. "In this case, when he describes someone known as a father and son but not known to be a drug dealer as a drug dealer, one might expect that race colored his judgment. It suggests he might be letting his biases affect his work."

Jealous, who first appeared on CNN on Sunday morning to talk about the case, called for Cousins' resignation and said he called for the Department of Justice inquiry into the case because of how the Erie Bureau of Police internal-affairs department handled the investigation.

Erie Bureau of Police internal-affairs Inspector James DeDionisio took Cousins with him April 14 to try to identify the man they believed made the video. The man they questioned said DeDionisio told him that making the video could have violated federal wiretapping laws, and Cousins implored him to take it down because Cousins' job was in jeopardy.

It was actually the man's brother who made and posted the video, which had more than 30,000 views on YouTube and more than 4,400 views on GoErie.com as of Monday evening. Excerpts of the video have been shown on national news networks.

Well, yet again, the title of the organisation sort of hints at the racial slant to their work, they're interested in the advancement of coloured people, not in police abuse overall but only when it involves coloured people.

The point of their work is racial issues against coloured people, anything that falls under that is an area they'll likely be involved in, whether it's police abuse, vote fraud, education discrimination or whatever.

Finally, I don't think they just jumped on this, it was brought to their attention by the mother of the victim, though I need to double check that so I might edit.

EDIT: I was wrong, not sure how they came to see the video...

Yes and how is this exactly a racial issue? Simply because the murder victim in question was coloured, but there is no racial issue in this, they are simply jumping on it trying to make it into some big racism thing which it clearly isn't hence my impled statement.

BTW, I can't believe no one has linked this yet.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/102800/

Police officer acting unprofessional = lose his job in my opinion.
It's their job to be professional.

The magnitude of his comments here... definitely should lose his job. Shocked that I am the first person out of about 20 or so to vote yes. I bet most of you would be voting yes too if that victim was a relative.

"Shocked"? So what?

I'm shocked that you'd make the obvious statement that if the "victim" was a relative we'd be voting "yes". That's a hell of an assumption. I'd be upset, but I wouldn't be calling for the cop's badge. You doin' okay up on that high horse, brother?

He should NOT lose his job, and nobody's presented a convincing argument to the contrary.

He should NOT lose his job, and nobody's presented a convincing argument to the contrary.

The only argument anyone has presented so far in favor of stripping the badge is the same "representative of the force" argument that the shrill like to blather on about except theirs is "think of the children".

Unfortunately in that line of work I think he may have to. Even though he was off duty he was talking about an active case to civilians. This is never a good idea. If I was the Sheriff, I might look at his record and if he was an otherwise exemplary officer and just made a bad decision i might consider maybe a transfer until this cools off. Put him on traffic detail or give him a desk job somewhere.

Unfortunately in that line of work I think he may have to. Even though he was off duty he was talking about an active case to civilians. This is never a good idea. If I was the Sheriff, I might look at his record and if he was an otherwise exemplary officer and just made a bad decision i might consider maybe a transfer until this cools off. Put him on traffic detail or give him a desk job somewhere.

He got to keep his job, he has to take sensitivity classes plus the suspension without pay he already had.

No. Sure it was in bad taste, but not something he should lose his job over.

What's the NAACP doing in all this anyway?!



In local news (Only about 30 miles from where I live)

Erie is only about 30 miles from where you live? hmm.... Are you south or southeast of Erie?

In local news (Only about 30 miles from where I live) the head of the NAACP called for Erie Police Officer James Cousins to resign from his job over comment made while drunk, seems someone recorded the whole thing and posted it on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAHMsCO3Diw) (I haven't watched it because my speakers are messed up, whats the point of watching something without sound?).



So anyway, NSG, armed with YouTube video and news article; what do the masses say?

Unless the head of the NAACP is going to give Officer Cousins a job with the same pay and benefits then he's got no business calling for this guy to lose his livelihood. People crack jokes about their job. It's part of being human. You can't hold people responsible to the point of being denied jobs for every stupid thing they say. It's as bad as that topic we had here once before where some college girl was kicked out of a teaching program because one of her friends took a picture of her having a drink.

Mr. NAACP should try working as a cop for a while and see how he sedate his sense of humor stays.

He should absolutely lose his job.

As a police officer, he is a public servant and a representative of the police force. He doesn't stop being a representative of the police force when he's not in his squad car or in his uniform.

Then he should get paid 24 hours a day.

Erie is only about 30 miles from where you live? hmm.... Are you south or southeast of Erie?

Due south, just take 70.

Then he should get paid 24 hours a day.

Heh now thats good.