NationStates Jolt Archive

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In virtually every book, movie, series, game, anything - there is the protagonist and there is the antagonist. The good and the evil. But, very often, and for many people most of the time, we find ourselves rooting for the evil guy.
I mean, come on - who is more fun, a bleached-white flawless hero or a nice complex villain? Even in a series with a well detailed protagonist, such as BtVS, few could help themselves but cheer for Spike.

But sometimes, much more rarely, there is a villain you just can't root for. Not that he's too lame, or too irrational, or too evil, we like all that, or at least we can wish him to change. No, it's about villains you simply can't sympathy with, at all.

What were these for you? And, more importantly, why? Can you figure out what specifically is it in some villains that makes them absolutely exempt from your sympathy?


[I won't name mine ones so far as not to focus on that.]

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/politicalstuff/cheney.jpg

the black chick in tom and Jerry was such a hard arse and she was totally cruel to Tom which is not cool

oh and on a much deeper psychological route, the guys who steal the heroes girl they just make me want to rage

I always thought Jerry was the villain. Seriously, that little mouse is a sociopath.

Speaking of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, most of the Big Bads were like this.

Angelus takes the cake. I don't consider Angel and Angelus to be the same perspn, so I don't count wanting Angel back to be having sympathy for Angelus. Angelus was awesome, but after he killed Jenny Calendar...

Speaking of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, most of the Big Bads were like this.

Angelus takes the cake. I don't consider Angel and Angelus to be the same perspn, so I don't count wanting Angel back to be having sympathy for Angelus. Angelus was awesome, but after he killed Jenny Calendar...

The Mayor was the most awesome villain in Buffy.. You just kinda hoped he'd win.

I always thought Jerry was the villain. Seriously, that little mouse is a sociopath.

but it almost always started with Tom kicking the shit out of Jerry and at one point he had to get his cousin round

then again if I had a squatter living in my house I'd prolly call the cops myself

Mimes. They're just too quiet. Everybody knows they're up to something, but you can't make em talk.

Mimes. They're just too quiet. Everybody knows they're up to something, but you can't make em talk.

Ah, the ancient clown/mime rivalry rears it's ugly head.

Mimes. They're just too quiet. Everybody knows they're up to something, but you can't make em talk.

*mimes some racial slurs*

Mimes. They're just too quiet. Everybody knows they're up to something, but you can't make em talk.

To be honest, they all should be shot but a mime is a terrible thing to waste..

To be honest, they all should be shot but a mime is a terrible thing to waste..

If you shoot a mime, use a silencer. ;)

If you shoot a mime, use a silencer. ;)

What if they put up an invisible force field?

Ah, the ancient clown/mime rivalry rears it's ugly head.

Clowns and mimes have different and incompatible subterfuge techniques.

Clowns are like, "We're going to take over the world! Hahahaha! Just kidding! But not really." When we finally do, you'll actually laugh until it's too late. :)

Mimes quietly distract you from the invisible weapons of war they are amassing until it's too late and they silence all opposition. :(

What if they put up an invisible force field?

then you use the glass lasso to hang them silly

haven't you ever wondered why those mimes are tugging so hard on that rope?

What if they put up an invisible force field?

There is usually an invisible door. Feel around for the knob quickly before they escape on their invisible bike. *nod*

Angelus takes the cake. I don't consider Angel and Angelus to be the same perspn, so I don't count wanting Angel back to be having sympathy for Angelus. Angelus was awesome, but after he killed Jenny Calendar...
...he got even more awesome.

This dude only sucked when they made him pet the dog, otherwise he was evil so deeply and properly that it was massively cool. I mean, how many completely sane villains have seriously set themselves a goal of destroying the world, themselves not exempt - sellflessly, for no personal gain, and not for the hatred of the world, but just for the damn of it?


On the other hand, take Stanley from Leon (The Professional). He has all the makings of a cool villain - stylish, cunning, able, slightly insane, badass, very evil. And yet, he just doesn't pass as one to sympathize with. Maybe it's underexposure, but I think if he was exposed more, he'd only be more disliked.

Clowns and mimes have different and incompatible subterfuge techniques.

Clowns are like, "We're going to take over the world! Hahahaha! Just kidding! But not really." When we finally do, you'll actually laugh until it's too late. :)

Mimes quietly distract you from the invisible weapons of war they are amassing until it's too late and they silence all opposition. :(

Nobody laughs at clowns, they laugh nervously to distract the clown while searching for the closest escape route.

There is usually an invisible door. Feel around for the knob quickly before they escape on their invisible bike. *nod*

And then drop kick them in the nards?

What if they put up an invisible force field?

You have to think outside the box with mimes

I enjoy shows where you have to keep reminding yourself who the bad guy is. For instance, this new show Dollhouse on Fox - since its focused around the Dollhouse itself, you always seem to forget that they are the bad guys who take away people's minds.

And then drop kick them in the nards?

That always meets with my approval. :)

What were these for you? And, more importantly, why? Can you figure out what specifically is it in some villains that makes them absolutely exempt from your sympathy?

I always hear about Satan being more likable than God in Paradise Lost. I don't see why. He was maybe more interesting, but seemed to be not much rebellious as kind of sneaky, taking advantage of the people in the Garden who I found to be pretty nice characters. He reminded me of those people who vent against "the System" by shouting at post office workers, waiters, and others who have no power over whatever injustice has been done.

I always hear about Satan being more likable than God in Paradise Lost. I don't see why. He was maybe more interesting, but seemed to be not much rebellious as kind of sneaky, taking advantage of the people in the Garden who I found to be pretty nice characters. He reminded me of those people who vent against "the System" by shouting at post office workers, waiters, and others who have no power over whatever injustice has been done.

That's the thing I've never understood about Satan. He's not omnipotent. God is. I'm not an expert on celestial warfare but if I was Satan I'd probably reconsider waging war against an enemy that is infinitly more powerful than me..

That's the thing I've never understood about Satan. He's not omnipotent. God is. I'm not an expert on celestial warfare but if I was Satan I'd probably reconsider waging war against an enemy that is infinitly more powerful than me..
That's because you're not badass.

I enjoy shows where you have to keep reminding yourself who the bad guy is. For instance, this new show Dollhouse on Fox - since its focused around the Dollhouse itself, you always seem to forget that they are the bad guys who take away people's minds.

It's also being written by the Dark Lord, which is why I started watching it in the first place.

That's because you're not badass.

come to think of it Satan sure is kicking some arse

It's also being written by the Dark Lord, which is why I started watching it in the first place.

Obama writes T.V. shows?

That's because you're not badass.

This is true. I just don't have the figure for it.

Obama writes T.V. shows?

Not Barack Obama. Joss Whedon.

Watch Season Two of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, particularly the episodes "Innocence", "Passion" and "Becoming" (both parts).

This is a tough one. I don't think I cheered for many bad guys. Darth Vader you were impressed with his power. The emperor he was just pure evil.


Okay comic books

Lex Luthor vs. Superman

Okay so you are a super genius why pick a fight with a guy who can stop bullets, jump over building in a single bound, has x-ray vision and laser beams that shoots out of his eyes, has super breath that turns water into ice. Sure he has that allergy to Kryptonite but who know what the effect of Kryptonite will be on the human body. Nope I think I would use my super genius abilities to make a huge fortune with numerous dancing girls.

I suppose if I had to pick one group it may be the bad mutants such as Magneto from the X-Men. It was us pesky normal humans that picked the fight.

Pretty much nothing is going to stand up to hulk.

Batman had several joker was a maniac. Two-face was kind of not that stable. Penguin was well penguin.

I suppose Penguin was the least villainous.

Punisher pretty much all the bad guys had it coming.

Watch Season Two of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, particularly the episodes "Innocence", "Passion" and "Becoming" (both parts).
If going Whedon, first you have to watch Angel, S01E01.

The most awesome 45 minutes of TV ever. I mean, I've seen the coolest of the movies. I've seen movies ranging from modern hits to black and white classics. I've seen the very best of animation. I've seen countless clips. But these 45 minutes have such an extreme concentration of everything awesome, cool and badass that they blow your brains out.

If the whole series was like this, I'd be busy watching it over and over, but of course it isn't, only a few eps come close.

Speaking of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, most of the Big Bads were like this.

Angelus takes the cake....

No cake to be took, oul fruit. The cake is a lie.

The Zerg. But that depends on what race you are.

The Zerg. But that depends on what race you are.

Fire it up.

When it comes to a highly unsympathetic antagonist, try professor Coldheart from the Care Bears animated series. I think it's quite horrible how he made science look bad because of his utter incompetence to succeed when all he had to do was to eradicate a bunch of overempathic mutant bears with more colors than you usually encounter during the average acid trip. I'm wondering if he was a real professor at all!

Also, gun smugglers.

I enjoy shows where you have to keep reminding yourself who the bad guy is. For instance, this new show Dollhouse on Fox - since its focused around the Dollhouse itself, you always seem to forget that they are the bad guys who take away people's minds.

It's also being written by the Dark Lord, which is why I started watching it in the first place.

Oh gods yes.
I don't know if either of you participated in the ARG, but even after actively trying to subvert R-Corp and bring down the Dollhouses and whatnot, I still, when watching, have a hard time remembering that they're the bad guys.

I mean, some of them are so likable. Topher comes to mind.

Oh gods yes.
I don't know if either of you participated in the ARG, but even after actively trying to subvert R-Corp and bring down the Dollhouses and whatnot, I still, when watching, have a hard time remembering that they're the bad guys.

I mean, some of them are so likable. Topher comes to mind.

Topher=Awesome.

I never could root for the one cylon.. you know Al from Quantumn Leap? He was just such a lame bad guy... his solution to everything was cut it open and see how it works.

I did not feel any sympathy for the Judge in Sweeney Todd, and villains from Rafael Sabatini's novels tend to have me rooting firmly against them. Paths of Glory and The Pentagon Wars are both full of unlikable antagonists.

Oh gods yes.
I don't know if either of you participated in the ARG, but even after actively trying to subvert R-Corp and bring down the Dollhouses and whatnot, I still, when watching, have a hard time remembering that they're the bad guys.

I mean, some of them are so likable. Topher comes to mind.

That's exactly what my girlfriend said. I was like "Topher is the ULTIMATE badguy in that show, he's the one doing all of the reprogramming and shit" but she was like "He's so cuddly and dopey" so that was the end of that.

I enjoy shows where you have to keep reminding yourself who the bad guy is. For instance, this new show Dollhouse on Fox - since its focused around the Dollhouse itself, you always seem to forget that they are the bad guys who take away people's minds.
its so much like real life.

the dollhouse people are very bad but that sweet silly mind wiping scientist seems so NIIIICE.

*mimes some racial slurs*

Some people are born mimes. Some people achieve mimeness. And some people have mimeness thrust upon them. :tongue:

Obama writes T.V. shows?

What a great question :D

He doesn't even write for his teleprompter, let alone for television.

Rush Limbaugh, no matter how hard I try I just can't root for the SOB.

Obama

That's the thing I've never understood about Satan. He's not omnipotent. God is. I'm not an expert on celestial warfare but if I was Satan I'd probably reconsider waging war against an enemy that is infinitly more powerful than me..

I think that's his appeal; he supposedly struggles against what he cannot defeat, kind of like Sissyphus (sp?) in Camus' book. The only problem is...he doesn't struggle, at least not on camera. Once he leaves heaven, he goes after the good but very un-omnipotent Adam and Eve. That's not fighting the Man, that's TPing the Man's front yard. Where's the rebellion in that?

These guys:
http://www.fusion-comics.com/Promotion/San%20Diego%20Comic%20Con%202008/part%204/GIJOE%20Cobra.jpg

Theyre just all around horrible people....

I never liked Dr. Manhattan or Ozymandias.

These guys:
http://www.fusion-comics.com/Promotion/San%20Diego%20Comic%20Con%202008/part%204/GIJOE%20Cobra.jpg

Theyre just all around horrible people....

I could root for that woman in the center all day.

I never liked Dr. Manhattan or Ozymandias.

Dr. Manhattan was certainly not a villain.

I could root for that woman in the center all day.

Yeah, but Ive seen what Cobra women do to people, >.>

Yeah, but Ive seen what Cobra women do to people, >.>

Thats just sexy! :p

Superman. He's too powerful, he wins far too often, and is one of history's biggest assholes.

http://www.superdickery.com/

That site is dedicated to showing the world how much of a dick Superman is.


The villains in Captain Planet. Only one of them is motivated by money. What about the rest of them? Are they simply misunderstood? No. Are they looking for love or merely trying to survive? No. Are they looking for revenge? Yes, but that's not their main goal. Their main goal is to destroy the planet in order to...destroy the planet. That's it. They want to bulldoze the rainforest, burn puppies alive, start wars, and belch pollution into the atmosphere. There's nothing sympathetic about them.

They're like people who shoot their victims only because their victims dodged earlier bullets. No love. No money. No fear. Only the all-too-common urge to be giant assholes.


The Mooninites in Aquateen Hungerforce. They're arrogant and annoying. Even more arrogant and annoying than Shake and there's nothing not-annoying about Shake. Nobody likes the Mooninites.

Yeah, but Ive seen what Cobra women do to people, >.>

Does it involve bondage? Petplay? Are fursuits involved or just the usual leather/latex?

The Mooninites in Aquateen Hungerforce. They're arrogant and annoying. Even more arrogant and annoying than Shake and there's nothing not-annoying about Shake. Nobody likes the Mooninites.

http://cache.thephoenix.com/secure/uploadedImages/The_Phoenix/News/News_Stories/mooninites(3).jpg
... as hard as I can! :D

Actually one guy came to mind. All though some might say he is not really a villain. He is considered the antagonist in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javert

Javert is a fictional character from the novel Les Misérables by Victor Hugo. He is a policeman and parole officer who devotes his life to the Law. He is always referred to just simply as "Javert" or "Inspector Javert" by the narrator and other characters throughout the novel; his first name is never mentioned. Javert is clearly regarded as the main antagonist to Jean Valjean, the novel's protagonist. However, Javert is considered more of a misguided antagonist rather than a true "evil villain", that latter distinction belongs to the greedy and treacherous Thénardiers.



However kind of interesting I think this guy became what we in comic books know as Judge Dread.

I am the Law!

Actually one guy came to mind. All though some might say he is not really a villain. He is considered the antagonist in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javert

Javert is a fictional character from the novel Les Misérables by Victor Hugo. He is a policeman and parole officer who devotes his life to the Law. He is always referred to just simply as "Javert" or "Inspector Javert" by the narrator and other characters throughout the novel; his first name is never mentioned. Javert is clearly regarded as the main antagonist to Jean Valjean, the novel's protagonist. However, Javert is considered more of a misguided antagonist rather than a true "evil villain", that latter distinction belongs to the greedy and treacherous Thénardiers.



However kind of interesting I think this guy became what we in comic books know as Judge Dread.

I am the Law!

I felt really bad for Javert, to be honest. Despite everything he does, Valjean still shows him mercy. This shatters Javert's entire worldview. I think it was expressed best in the musical when Valjean's song (after the bishop intervenes) and Javert's song are exactly the same song. Valjean responds by dedicating himself to being a better person, but Javert is so completely unable to cope that the throws himself off a bridge and drowns.

Dr. Manhattan was certainly not a villain.

Ah, that's the thing about Watchmen... The villains are not all the same for everyone. Dr. Manhattan was a villain, I believe, because he stopped the truth from getting out to solve the very problem he caused.

Ah, that's the thing about Watchmen... The villains are not all the same for everyone. Dr. Manhattan was a villain, I believe, because he stopped the truth from getting out to solve the very problem he caused.

I always thought Zack Snyder was the villain in that book? :tongue:

Ah, that's the thing about Watchmen... The villains are not all the same for everyone. Dr. Manhattan was a villain, I believe, because he stopped the truth from getting out to solve the very problem he caused.

Would the truth have solved the problem?

I always thought Zack Snyder was the villain in that book? :tongue:

http://www.thefilmchair.com/images/tfc/watchmen-smiley.gif

The antagonist in The Good Son (a truly sick and vile movie) can't be rooted for. He was a demonic little fucker.

Also, do non-fiction villains count? Nazis, Klansmen, and the like definitely can NOT be rooted for.

The antagonist in The Good Son (a truly sick and vile movie) can't be rooted for. He was a demonic little fucker.

But did he enjoy Beethoven?

Also, do non-fiction villains count? Nazis, Klansmen, and the like definitely can NOT be rooted for.

I would probably have found Stalin memorable if he was fictional.

But did he enjoy Beethoven?

No mention was made of his taste in music.

I would probably have found Stalin memorable if he was fictional.

Agreed. He would have been a bad-ass fictional villain. Especially that epic moustache...

No mention was made of his taste in music.

Little ass lost his chance, then.

Agreed. He would have been a bad-ass fictional villain. Especially that epic moustache...

And the amazing quotes.

I felt really bad for Javert, to be honest. Despite everything he does, Valjean still shows him mercy. This shatters Javert's entire worldview. I think it was expressed best in the musical when Valjean's song (after the bishop intervenes) and Javert's song are exactly the same song. Valjean responds by dedicating himself to being a better person, but Javert is so completely unable to cope that the throws himself off a bridge and drowns.

I am more of the movie person myself. Yes you do feel bad for him. How can this criminal show "mercy" it just does not compute.

The Law is paramount in his case in effect he broke the law and must be judged accordingly. Some kind of code of honor. You feel bad for the guy but you kind of hope he won't win.


I suppose movies like "The Sting" are similar and since they are ripping off a bad guy you don't feel sympathy for the vicitms even though maybe we should. Scott Joplin plays a mean piano anyway.

Agreed. He would have been a bad-ass fictional villain. Especially that epic moustache...
Facial hair is notorious as an indicator of evil. Probably related to testosterone levels.

Wow, I just made that up, but now I'm kind of curious: are aggressive sociopaths full of more testosterone? Does that explain their beards and mustaches? Hmm...

Facial hair is notorious as an indicator of evil. Probably related to testosterone levels.

Wow, I just made that up, but now I'm kind of curious: are aggressive sociopaths full of more testosterone? Does that explain their beards and mustaches? Hmm...

Was he aggressive? I think he just looked at humans as obstacles, and did not particularly relish fighting or killing them.

Was he aggressive? I think he just looked at humans as obstacles, and did not particularly relish fighting or killing them.

I think one can be aggressive and calculating at the same time. Of course, I don't know the psychology of Joseph Stalin, I don't know if anyone does, but I'd consider his fight for power a sign of aggression.

Another one that came to mind is Seven. Damn that movie was awful. That was seriously messed up stuff and at the end you know you shouldn't but who wouldn't have shot him?

I think one can be aggressive and calculating at the same time. Of course, I don't know the psychology of Joseph Stalin, I don't know if anyone does, but I'd consider his fight for power a sign of aggression.

I disagree! Just because I can...

Another one that came to mind is Seven. Damn that movie was awful. That was seriously messed up stuff and at the end you know you shouldn't but who wouldn't have shot him?

I'd have so shot him, I'd have reloaded after emptying my magazine and shot him some more too. It would be way to easy to plea insanity in that case...

Nazis, or the south in American Civil War movies (no offense guys). Generally in just about every historical fiction movie, I never end up rooting for the villains. I mean, seriously, how can you root for the Nazis in Schindler's List?

But when it comes to other fictions, I often find myself rooting for the bad guys, especially if the Hero is whiny, like Luke Skywalker.

On the NS I.I. forums, I myself often play as the bad guy more often than the good guy. I find it psychologically and philosophically interesting to get in that opposite mindset when you're writing a story.

The Sabbat from the game Vampire the Masquerade. They're basically just animals.

Relating to Buffy, the villains The Master and Glory are not very sympathetic. I also found it very hard to care about Connor at all in Angel- he was very irritating.

Hector from Grim Fandango is also a villain that I couldn't feel sorry for.

The Reapers in Mass Effect were also uninteresting. They just wanted to destroy everything. Perhaps if there was an actual reason given for them wanting to kill off people it would be a different story, but they seem to be the most irrational machines I've come across.

On the other side, the antagonist of Chicago Red [1 (http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Red-R-M-Meluch/product-reviews/0451450345/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)], a sadistic homosexual rapist and assassin, was the only sympathetic character in the book.

Relating to Buffy, the villains The Master and Glory are not very sympathetic. I also found it very hard to care about Connor at all in Angel- he was very irritating.


I found Connor irritating too, but I couldn't help but root for him. See, whenever he fought, he kicked major ass.

The villains in Captain Planet. Only one of them is motivated by money. What about the rest of them? Are they simply misunderstood? No. Are they looking for love or merely trying to survive? No. Are they looking for revenge? Yes, but that's not their main goal. Their main goal is to destroy the planet in order to...destroy the planet. That's it. They want to bulldoze the rainforest, burn puppies alive, start wars, and belch pollution into the atmosphere. There's nothing sympathetic about them.
They're like people who shoot their victims only because their victims dodged earlier bullets. No love. No money. No fear. Only the all-too-common urge to be giant assholes.

And that's what makes them (even for cartoon villains) so exceedingly one-dimensional. Outside of the Internet, very few people engage in being a dick for the sole purpose of just being a dick and ruining 'it' for everyone. A good villian always has a reason that he is the way he is. You ever see The Talented Mr. Ripley? There's a scene where the titular Mr. Ripley says 'Deep down, no-one ever thinks that they're a bad person." The villians from Captain Planet weren't even villains, they were just disposable strawmen.

For all your Unsympathetic Villainy needs: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CompleteMonster

Honestly? The necromongers from Chronicles of Riddick. That wasn't a movie with a main hero; that was a movie with two main villains. The protagonist was just the better villain.

Nazis, or the south in American Civil War movies (no offense guys).

Id recommend Gods and Generals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gods_and_Generals_(film)) for a more pro-Southern movie...

It was pretty good, although the complaint about soliloquies was definitively justified...

And the series feels incomplete without the third film cause it was supposed to go, "pro confederate", "neutral", "pro union", like the war itself...

I am more of the movie person myself.

The one with Liam Neeson? Yeah, I liked that movie. Still trying to eke my way through the book though.

Yes you do feel bad for him. How can this criminal show "mercy" it just does not compute.

The Law is paramount in his case in effect he broke the law and must be judged accordingly. Some kind of code of honor. You feel bad for the guy but you kind of hope he won't win.

Who is this man?
What sort of devil is he
To have me caught in a trap
And choose to let me go free?
It was his hour at last
To put a seal on my fate
Wipe out the past
And wash me clean off the slate!
All it would take
Was a flick of his knife.
Vengeance was his
And he gave me back my life!

Damned if I'll live in the debt of a thief!
Damned if I'll yield at the end of the chase.
I am the Law and the Law is not mocked
I'll spit his pity right back in his face
There is nothing on earth that we share
It is either Valjean or Javert!

How can I now allow this man
To hold dominion over me?
This desperate man whom I have hunted
He gave me my life. He gave me freedom.
I should have perished by his hand
It was his right.
It was my right to die as well
Instead I live... but live in hell.

And my thoughts fly apart
Can this man be believed?
Shall his sins be forgiven?
Shall his crimes be reprieved?

And must I now begin to doubt,
Who never doubted all these years?
My heart is stone and still it trembles
The world I have known is lost in shadow.
Is he from heaven or from hell?
And does he know
That granting me my life today
This man has killed me even so?

I am reaching, but I fall
And the stars are black and cold
As I stare into the void
Of a world that cannot hold
I'll escape now from the world
From the world of Jean Valjean.
There is nowhere I can turn
There is no way to go on....

But you're right. There wasn't a point where I wanted Javert to win, but at the same time I felt like it didn't need to end in his death (OK, so it did. It was an excellent decision on his part).

I think one can be aggressive and calculating at the same time. Of course, I don't know the psychology of Joseph Stalin, I don't know if anyone does, but I'd consider his fight for power a sign of aggression.

Or paranoia. That seems to be a popular motive for him.

The Reapers in Mass Effect were also uninteresting. They just wanted to destroy everything. Perhaps if there was an actual reason given for them wanting to kill off people it would be a different story, but they seem to be the most irrational machines I've come across.

Everyone always complains about this, but I liked it. I mean, the only people who would know are the Reapers and they don't feel like telling you, since they consider you little more than cattle. Besides, that was just part 1 of a trilogy and we still have two games to learn their motives.

I can really only think of one...Darth Malak from KOTOR.

The guy had all the subtlety of a rotting deer carcass in your living room.

I was quite dissapointed that he turned out to be such a fucking easy boss to beat, as he deserved a more thorough ass kicking.

The mad, blind monk who murdered people - because he could not accept god having a sense of humour. (The Name of the Rose)

Agent Smith (Matrix Trilogy)

Hugo Drax (Moonraker - unlike most Bond villains, a petty little man with a god complex).

There are a few others.

It's also being written by the Dark Lord, which is why I started watching it in the first place.

Sauron?

My vote goes for Gaius Baltar. I wanted him to die so badly but no... he lives after the credits roll.

Facial hair is notorious as an indicator of evil. Probably related to testosterone levels.

Wow, I just made that up, but now I'm kind of curious: are aggressive sociopaths full of more testosterone? Does that explain their beards and mustaches? Hmm...

I don't know very many Marines with mustaches and even fewer with beards, however most of them appear to have more then their fair share of testosterone.

Sauron?

Joss Whedon, who can kick Sauron's ass in the evil stakes any day.

Sauron?

My vote goes for Gaius Baltar. I wanted him to die so badly but no... he lives after the credits roll.

Gaius Balter is the character I found the most interesting of those in BSG. The reason isn't because he's likeable; he's a detestable little troll who you secretly wish to see killed. But, of all of the characters, he's probably the most unkillable because of what he ultimately represents. You see, he's the living persona of the combined flaws of the surviving humans. Killing him would represent the death of those flaws. Which is why, of all of the characters, his survival was one of the most imperative.

For all your Unsympathetic Villainy needs: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CompleteMonster

The fuck? No mention of Iago?

Agent Smith (Matrix Trilogy)
Eh? I think Smith was the only character I didn't want to shoot in the end. Of course, there's also the fact that Hugo Weaving is approximately 546353 times more interesting than Keaneu (however you spell that) Reeves.

These Guys (http://www.leagueofsuperevil.com/)...

Mark Thatcher

The fuck? No mention of Iago?

Now see, I always felt I could root for Iago. Othello struck me as kind of whiny and pathetically needy. Iago, on the other hand, was Shakespeare's Hannibal Lector.

Now see, I always felt I could root for Iago. Othello struck me as kind of whiny and pathetically needy. Iago, on the other hand, was Shakespeare's Hannibal Lector.

Hannibal Lector had a lot of shit happen to him, so he gets the same sympathy I gave really fucked-up anti-hero/villain Sweeney Todd.

Othello was stupid, and Iago was a dickwad--he did not set-up murders because the world seriously wronged him, he just did it because he wanted a promotion. Iago lacked any type of anything remotely close to any cousin of any redeemable qualities.

Real villains? Charlie Manson, Eric Harris, Timothy McVeigh, Zacharias Moussaoui.

Fictional Villains? Claudius (Hamlet), Cruella de Vil, Commandant Mele-on Grayza (Farscape).

Hannibal Lector had a lot of shit happen to him, so he gets the same sympathy I gave really fucked-up anti-hero/villain Sweeney Todd.

Othello was stupid, and Iago was a dickwad--he did not set-up murders because the world seriously wronged him, he just did it because he wanted a promotion. Iago lacked any type of anything remotely close to any cousin of any redeemable qualities.

Spot on, sir.

Spot on, sir.

Thank you.

*takes bow*

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/politicalstuff/cheney.jpg

That's pretty much it for me. Though we could through throw Kim Jong Il in as well.

The fuck? No mention of Iago?

Are you seriously telling me you cant root for this?

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5044/iago7ew3.gif

:p

Are you seriously telling me you cant root for this?

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5044/iago7ew3.gif

:p

It's got Gilbert Gottfried's voice. Hell no, I can't root for it.

Hannibal Lector had a lot of shit happen to him, so he gets the same sympathy I gave really fucked-up anti-hero/villain Sweeney Todd.

Yes, Hannibal did have a lot things happen to him, but in the end he chose to become a monster, it wasn't forced on him. I don't know that Hannibal gets a lot of sympathy, either, not really. It's more the sort of reaction that you get from people watching a giant sinkhole open up and swallow half a town, or a giant tsunami hit. It's a sort of 'train-wreck' reaction. As for Sweeney Todd, I don't know that you'd call him a villian per se, anymore than say, Eric Draven was a villian.

Othello was stupid, and Iago was a dickwad--he did not set-up murders because the world seriously wronged him, he just did it because he wanted a promotion. Iago lacked any type of anything remotely close to any cousin of any redeemable qualities.

I disagree. Iago didn't set his plan in motion just to be a dick. From his point of view, he had been seriously wronged by being passed over for promotion. That's why he sets his sights on Othello, because he was the one who got the position. That's why he's relatable(which is close to, and often turns into, sympathy)because who here hasn't seen someone they regard as undeserving gain some high position or acclaim?

Actually one guy came to mind. All though some might say he is not really a villain. He is considered the antagonist in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javert

Javert is a fictional character from the novel Les Misérables by Victor Hugo. He is a policeman and parole officer who devotes his life to the Law. He is always referred to just simply as "Javert" or "Inspector Javert" by the narrator and other characters throughout the novel; his first name is never mentioned. Javert is clearly regarded as the main antagonist to Jean Valjean, the novel's protagonist. However, Javert is considered more of a misguided antagonist rather than a true "evil villain", that latter distinction belongs to the greedy and treacherous Thénardiers.



However kind of interesting I think this guy became what we in comic books know as Judge Dread.

I am the Law!

Dredd.

And please tell me you mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Judge_dredd.png

Not, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Judge_Dredd_promo_poster.jpg

The Tremere from VtM

Mark Thatcher

Nope, his mother!

The Tremere from VtM

While bastards, the Tremere where one of the 'good guys'

Most of them.

I mean, come on - who is more fun, a bleached-white flawless hero or a nice complex villain?Generally the hero. Of course, most heroes aren't flawless, either.

Yes, Hannibal did have a lot things happen to him, but in the end he chose to become a monster, it wasn't forced on him. I don't know that Hannibal gets a lot of sympathy, either, not really. It's more the sort of reaction that you get from people watching a giant sinkhole open up and swallow half a town, or a giant tsunami hit. It's a sort of 'train-wreck' reaction. As for Sweeney Todd, I don't know that you'd call him a villian per se, anymore than say, Eric Draven was a villian.

Right, train-wreck; we were never led to believe that Iago had experienced any psychological trauma. He was just sadistic and selfish.

I disagree. Iago didn't set his plan in motion just to be a dick. From his point of view, he had been seriously wronged by being passed over for promotion. That's why he sets his sights on Othello, because he was the one who got the position. That's why he's relatable(which is close to, and often turns into, sympathy)because who here hasn't seen someone they regard as undeserving gain some high position or acclaim?

"Wronged"? So things are only bad when they obstruct his happiness? Surely you do not consider ruthless egotism to be a redeemable moral code?

Dredd.

And please tell me you mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Judge_dredd.png

Not, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Judge_Dredd_promo_poster.jpg

This movie need to be redone. Man that was awful.

I do mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Judge_dredd.png

The villain they did not so bad but rest was a write off. Sets were fairly decent. I did like the robot(ABC Warrior).


Status?

Rico: Body guard

Commander?

Rico

Mission?

We are going to war

Right, train-wreck; we were never led to believe that Iago had experienced any psychological trauma. He was just sadistic and selfish. "Wronged"? So things are only bad when they obstruct his happiness? Surely you do not consider ruthless egotism to be a redeemable moral code?

From Iago's point of view, he was wronged by being passed over, which set the whole play in motion. If you want to understand him, you can't really look at his actions from your point of view, you have to look at them from his point of view. I'm not holding him up as the hero, or even as some sort of anti-hero, he's clearly an unrepetant villain, but I will say that I have found him more relatable to then Othello.

From Iago's point of view, he was wronged by being passed over, which set the whole play in motion. If you want to understand him, you can't really look at his actions from your point of view, you have to look at them from his point of view. I'm not holding him up as the hero, or even as some sort of anti-hero, he's clearly an unrepetant villain, but I will say that I have found him more relatable to then Othello.

Right, he was a total egotist. Anything bad that happened to him is "wrong", but fuck anyone else. Maybe if he was more severally wronged, or if he actually gave a shit about anyone before he was wronged, I might sympathize.

Othello is just stupid, though at least he cared somewhat about others.

John Douglas, the FBI profiler, talks in one of his books(I dis-remember which one)about how he, as an exercise for one the classes he taught, worked up a psychological profile for Othello. The conclusion he came to was that, while massively insecure, Othello was also a surpreme egotist,(the other side of Iago's coin, maybe?)which contributes to his killing of Desdemona, and his suicide.

John Douglas, the FBI profiler, talks in one of his books(I dis-remember which one)about how he, as an exercise for one the classes he taught, worked up a psychological profile for Othello. The conclusion he came to was that, while massively insecure, Othello was also a surpreme egotist,(the other side of Iago's coin, maybe?)which contributes to his killing of Desdemona, and his suicide.

If he was 100% egotist, as Iago was, it is unlikely he would have felt any remorse for his actions.

If he was 100% egotist, as Iago was, it is unlikely he would have felt any remorse for his actions.

Very few people are 100% anything, even if literature, it makes them less believable characters. It was Douglas's contention that Othello's suicide resulted mostly from pride, not remorse. He posited that Othello didn't want to live knowing that people's opinions and judgments of him had changed as a result of his actions. That he didn't kill himself because he was sorry he had killed Desdemona, but that he killed himself because he wouldn't be seen as the 'good guy' anymore.

It was Douglas's contention that Othello's suicide was a result of pride, not remorse. He posited that Othello didn't want to live knowing that people's opinions and judgments of him had changed as a result of his actions. That he didn't kill himself because he was sorry he had killed Desdemona, but that he killed himself because he wouldn't be seen as the 'good guy' anymore.

...That would take away a good deal of the "tragedy". Either way, it fails to redeem Iago. Maybe if Othello killed Iago's wife (which Iago did himself), I might sympathize a bit--but causing that murder over failing to acquire a promotion? No. And if Iago was willing to do all that, he should not have been promoted, anyway.

Superman. He's too powerful, he wins far too often, and is one of history's biggest assholes.




That site is dedicated to showing the world how much of a dick Superman is.


The villains in Captain Planet. Only one of them is motivated by money. What about the rest of them? Are they simply misunderstood? No. Are they looking for love or merely trying to survive? No. Are they looking for revenge? Yes, but that's not their main goal. Their main goal is to destroy the planet in order to...destroy the planet. That's it. They want to bulldoze the rainforest, burn puppies alive, start wars, and belch pollution into the atmosphere. There's nothing sympathetic about them.

They're like people who shoot their victims only because their victims dodged earlier bullets. No love. No money. No fear. Only the all-too-common urge to be giant assholes.


The Mooninites in Aquateen Hungerforce. They're arrogant and annoying. Even more arrogant and annoying than Shake and there's nothing not-annoying about Shake. Nobody likes the Mooninites.

ok that 'showdown at gotham city' comic picture doesnt make sense....supermans invunerable and its not a fair contest......

Sylvia Christel : tricked soooo many out of millions just to feed her shopping habit....

Yes, Hannibal did have a lot things happen to him, but in the end he chose to become a monster, it wasn't forced on him. I don't know that Hannibal gets a lot of sympathy, either, not really. It's more the sort of reaction that you get from people watching a giant sinkhole open up and swallow half a town, or a giant tsunami hit. It's a sort of 'train-wreck' reaction. As for Sweeney Todd, I don't know that you'd call him a villian per se, anymore than say, Eric Draven was a villian.



I disagree. Iago didn't set his plan in motion just to be a dick. From his point of view, he had been seriously wronged by being passed over for promotion. That's why he sets his sights on Othello, because he was the one who got the position. That's why he's relatable(which is close to, and often turns into, sympathy)because who here hasn't seen someone they regard as undeserving gain some high position or acclaim?

Uh...we proabably all have to one or another degree, but has it ever been something to kill over? No. Sorry, you're not making a convincing case for Iago. He's a dick.

From Iago's point of view, he was wronged by being passed over, which set the whole play in motion. If you want to understand him, you can't really look at his actions from your point of view, you have to look at them from his point of view. I'm not holding him up as the hero, or even as some sort of anti-hero, he's clearly an unrepetant villain, but I will say that I have found him more relatable to then Othello.

This is why Othello is a weak play. There's nobody to admire in it, save perhaps Desdemona.

This is why Othello is a weak play. There's nobody to admire in it, save perhaps Desdemona.

I dunno, there was none admirable in A Clockwork Orange, but it still addressed important issues.

That said, I never really cared for Othello.

...That would take away a good deal of the "tragedy". Either way, it fails to redeem Iago. Maybe if Othello killed Iago's wife (which Iago did himself), I might sympathize a bit--but causing that murder over failing to acquire a promotion? No. And if Iago was willing to do all that, he should not have been promoted, anyway.

Where the tragedy lies, is that Desdemona dies, through no fault of her own due to events that she really has nothing to do with and that are beyond her control. She's the tragic figure, as well as being really the only sympathetic main character. I can relate(somewhat, on a certain level)to Iago, but Desdemona is the one I feel sorry for.

Well on Star Trek, you coulndt help but root for the Romulans, Klingons, Breen, Cardasians and Borg because they had cooler ships than the Federation.
:gundge:

Where the tragedy lies, is that Desdemona dies, through no fault of her own due to events that she really has nothing to do with and that are beyond her control. She's the tragic figure, as well as being really the only sympathetic main character. I can relate(somewhat, on a certain level)to Iago, but Desdemona is the one I feel sorry for.

Technically, that's not tragedy. If it's beyond her control then it's really more pathetic than tragic. For her to be a tragic figure, she'd need to have some kind of flaw or commit some kind of hamartia that brings about her downfall.

Stephen Gerrard.

Well on Star Trek, you coulndt help but root for the Romulans, Klingons, Breen, Cardasians and Borg because they had cooler ships than the Federation.
:gundge:

*rams the Enterprise-E up your ass*

Republicans.

I dunno, there was none admirable in A Clockwork Orange, but it still addressed important issues.

That said, I never really cared for Othello.

That's not the only reason it's a weak play. What are we supposed to learn? Don't kill your wife unless you have definite proof of infidelity? Just dumb.

Republicans.

What do you have against Teddy Rossevelt? Or Lincoln? "Speak softly and carry a big stick" too much for you to handle? Don't like abolotionists taking away states' "rights" to force perfectly law abiding and responsible people to work long hours against their wills?

Oh, I can't remember if it's been said yet or not, but Xykon. If you can bring yourself to root for him at all, you need to go and read Start of Darkness.

i'd have to say the supidity of thoughtlessness. i mean what a combination: it threatens us all while gratifying nothing. the worst part of course, is that none of us can ever entirely count on not from time to time engauging in it ourselves. i think that, more then anything else is what really annoys me about it.

Kefka in Final Fantasy VI. Rarely have I ever found a fictional villain that I hated this much. Even the villains in Captain Planet, who perform evil for no other motive than ot be assholes, aren't as bad as Kefka.

Now, unlike the Captain Planet villains, Kefka is a pretty decent villain.

SPOILERS!!!!!

He's a clown that grew corrupted after being fused with magic during a magic-related experiment. He had test subject Terra (the first of the protagonists) slaughter dozens of Kefka's fellow troops. He poisoned the water supply of a castle containing civillians and captured empire forces. He wiped out an entire species and even killed his boss. But what really makes you hate him is how much of a pussy he is. He runs everytime you come to stop him from being a complete asshole.

Metroid's sace pirates? They were cool. You were proud to have them as your adversaries. Bowser? He's classic. Kefka? You wanted him dead.

Also, unlike most villains, Kefka's global domination/ultimate plans are 100% successful. When you finally kill him, he's practically a god that literally controls the world.

END SPOILERS!!!!!

Technically, that's not tragedy. If it's beyond her control then it's really more pathetic than tragic. For her to be a tragic figure, she'd need to have some kind of flaw or commit some kind of hamartia that brings about her downfall.

As far as flaws go, she apparently wasn't that great a judge of character, I don't know if that warrants though

What are we supposed to learn? Don't kill your wife unless you have definite proof of infidelity? Just dumb.

You could ask that question about any of Shakespeare's tragedies, though. I don't know that we're really supposed to learn anything from them, really, any more than you should expect to learn something from a news video of a train wreck. I think the point of a tragedy might be catharsis, or schadenfreude, rather than enlightenment.

Republicans.

There it is. I'm surprised it took a hundred and twenty-five comments for that to show up, y'all are slipping.

*rams the Enterprise-E up your ass*

You never know - he may like it.

*runs*

Oh, I can't remember if it's been said yet or not, but Xykon. If you can bring yourself to root for him at all, you need to go and read Start of Darkness.

Fuck that...at least he's funny. :tongue:

Fuck that...at least he's funny. :tongue:

Well, yeah, he's funny. Still can't bring myself to root for him though, after reading Start of Darkness. I mean, damn.

What do you have against Teddy Rossevelt? Or Lincoln? "Speak softly and carry a big stick" too much for you to handle? Don't like abolotionists taking away states' "rights" to force perfectly law abiding and responsible people to work long hours against their wills?

Can't say for sure with just one word, but he was probably reffering to current Republicans. You know, the kind who pander to theocrats who think we should bring on Armaggedon, while stripping everyone of their legal rights.

Lincoln would probably weep if he could see the GOP today.

Well on Star Trek, you coulndt help but root for the Romulans, Klingons, Breen, Cardasians and Borg because they had cooler ships than the Federation.
:gundge:

Cardassian ships were portrayed as weak if I recall correctly, and were certainly ugly as hell. Borg ships aren't so much "cool" as "overpowered." The Breen I'm not familiar with. But if you took the above quote and editted out everyone but the Romulans, I might agree.;)

Lincoln would probably weep if he could see the GOP today.

Weep? Lincoln willingly fought an entire war over his ideals. I don't think he'd weep. I think he'd grab a shotgun and clean house.

I cannot sympathize with bears. Bears are the greatest threat to america.

Lucien Lacombe, who is just a dickhead.