NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25348657-401,00.html



* Ice expanding in much of Antarctica
* Eastern coast getting colder
* Western section remains a concern

ICE is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap.

The results of ice-core drilling and sea ice monitoring indicate there is no large-scale melting of ice over most of Antarctica, although experts are concerned at ice losses on the continent's western coast.

Antarctica has 90 per cent of the Earth's ice and 80 per cent of its fresh water, The Australian reports. Extensive melting of Antarctic ice sheets would be required to raise sea levels substantially, and ice is melting in parts of west Antarctica. The destabilisation of the Wilkins ice shelf generated international headlines this month.

However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".
Related Coverage

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said.

The melting of sea ice - fast ice and pack ice - does not cause sea levels to rise because the ice is in the water. Sea levels may rise with losses from freshwater ice sheets on the polar caps. In Antarctica, these losses are in the form of icebergs calved from ice shelves formed by glacial movements on the mainland.

Last week, federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said experts predicted sea level rises of up to 6m from Antarctic melting by 2100, but the worst case scenario foreshadowed by the SCAR report was a 1.25m rise.

Mr Garrett insisted global warming was causing ice losses throughout Antarctica. "I don't think there's any doubt it is contributing to what we've seen both on the Wilkins shelf and more generally in Antarctica," he said.

Dr Allison said there was not any evidence of significant change in the mass of ice shelves in east Antarctica nor any indication that its ice cap was melting. "The only significant calvings in Antarctica have been in the west," he said. And he cautioned that calvings of the magnitude seen recently in west Antarctica might not be unusual.

"Ice shelves in general have episodic carvings and there can be large icebergs breaking off - I'm talking 100km or 200km long - every 10 or 20 or 50 years."

Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m.

A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded.


So if temperatures are supposedly increasing, why is this happening?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25348657-401,00.html



So if temperatures are supposedly increasing, why is this happening?

Because its the start of winter in the souther hemisphere.

Yay!

a) We're coming into winter.
b) It's climate change, not global warming. The idea that everything is going to turn into a desert and melt is horrifically uninformed.

Its down to a resurgence in the number of pirates.

If this continues, we'll be back to panicking about global cooling within the year.

Perhaps the planet is trying to lull us into a false sense of security. It's like a colossal game of chess with feints and misdirections to distract us from the main goal of the planet's attempts to drown Tuvaluvians, reclaim Florida and make everyone's balls hang so low, we'll never be able to wear gym shorts again without childish snickers from those around us.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25348657-401,00.html



So if temperatures are supposedly increasing, why is this happening?

Because the majority of the flooding they're worried about would come from the area the article states they are worried about. Most of the rest of the continent was never really a concern.

b) It's climate change, not global warming. The idea that everything is going to turn into a desert and melt is horrifically uninformed.

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming. It's greenhouse gases, not icehouse gases. Greenhouse gases are going to going to cause the temperature to rise, not fall, Greenland is going to really become Greenland because there won't be any more ice on it, sea levels are going to rise and the Maldive Islands are going to become the first nation to sink under the sea.

That is what the Kyotomaniacs and Goreans have been banging their gums about for the last 15+ years, not "climate change." Not one of them has been telling us to cut carbon emissions because otherwise we'll be creating another Ice Age.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

So if temperatures are supposedly increasing, why is this happening?

because it's fucking cold in antarctica, and all that melting land-based ice has to go somewhere. i mean, its not as if we have satellite measurements of the decreasing volume of antarctic ice or anything. oh, wait...

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming. It's greenhouse gases, not icehouse gases. Greenhouse gases are going to going to cause the temperature to rise, not fall, Greenland is going to really become Greenland because there won't be any more ice on it, sea levels are going to rise and the Maldive Islands are going to become the first nation to sink under the sea.

That is what the Kyotomaniacs and Goreans have been banging their gums about for the last 15+ years, not "climate change." Not one of them has been telling us to cut carbon emissions because otherwise we'll be creating another Ice Age.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

Why are you confusing climate change with cooling? Overall warming will increase cooling in certain regions because various methods of dispersing heat across the globe get screwed up. This has been said for as long as global warming has been an issue. But, it's ok, though...we should definitely base our opinions on your vapid rapid rants rather than data coming from the scientific community.

This isn't to say that people can't disagree with global warming/climate change/whatever so long as they have information and believable predictions to back it up. Lies, ignorance and nonsense though...they don't constitute this information and prediction.

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming.

So long as you never freeze it, you can call a product 'fresh'.

Why? It's not accurate - and it can be incredibly misleading - but it's easy, and it's convenient, and it gets an idea across in a word that could take sentences to try to explain in real terms.

What this evidence points to, is that our earth is beginning to undergo another magnetic pole switch. This also would cause temporary global warming due to the decreasing size of the Van Allen radiation belt and the increasing proximity of destructive solar radiation to the earth. *nods*

Yay!

Well that is great news at least no global warming. The bad news is now we wont discover the lost city of the lost continent of Atlantis buried under all that ice. As I predicted on the counter thread.

No doubt for the same reason that last March was colder than this one.

you all laugh with glee now but I wonder who will be laughing when Antarctica starts expanding into Australia!

also you guys take your claim seriously don't you?

Because its the start of winter in the souther hemisphere.

Also because "average temperatures worldwide" =/= "current temperature somewhere".

Also because climatology =/= meteorology.

The penguins have taken to hoarding the cold in anticipation of a run on cold in the near future due to lots of hot and sweaty people in need of cooling due to a warmer climate.

Maybe...

If this is an attempt to convince everyone (once again) that climate change is false, than it= epic fail. First of all, the "global warming" theory has been replaced by the concept of "climate change." According to this term, some parts of the Earth will get colder, as a result of emissions. This is a direct result of warming northern temperatures, which alters currents. As a result, some currents will cause warmer places to become colder, and vice-versa. And, as many others have stated, generally, things get a bit colder in the winter...

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

What's the right wing beef with environmentalism? It's not a left/right issue. It doesn't challenge any of your ideological positions, as far as I know. Granted, there has always been a slight scepticism of science about the right, but it was always focused on the social sciences and it never had this scale of intensity. Why the hate? Do environmentalists remind you of hippies and so ye reflexively take up the opposite side of the argument? Is it that Gore, who's the poster child for environmentalism, was once a Democratic president candidate and you've never let it go that he nearly beat Bush back in 2000? Seriously, what the hell is the problem?

What's the right wing beef with environmentalism? It's not a left/right issue. It doesn't challenge any of your ideological positions, as far as I know. Granted, there has always been a slight sceptics of science about the right, but it was always focused on the social sciences and it was never had this scale of intensity. Why the hate? Do environmentalists remind you of hippies and so ye reflexively take up the opposite side of the argument? Is it that Gore, who's the poster child for environmentalism, was once a Democratic president candidate and you've never let it go that he nearly beat Bush back in 2000? Seriously, what the hell is the problem?

Someone has seen the light! If you're going to let your die-hard conservativism interfere with the facts that have supported climate change, don't bash us for being "leftists," simply because we have an unaldulterated understanding of the concept. Even if, by some weird twist of fate, climate change doesn't exist, emissions still pollute the air, and I'm really not looking forward to walking around with a gas mask in the near future.

Perhaps the planet is trying to lull us into a false sense of security. It's like a colossal game of chess with feints and misdirections to distract us from the main goal of the planet's attempts to drown Tuvaluvians, reclaim Florida and make everyone's balls hang so low, we'll never be able to wear gym shorts again without childish snickers from those around us.
damnit!!! another situation where women are immune!!! :mad:

Oh my God there's ice in winter in Antarctica global warming is disproved!

I should point out that as temperatures rise, the water under the glaciers lubricate their passage, speeding their spread. Thus ice sheets can grow as the upland ice moves toward the sea. A single data point however is insufficient to make any claims.

Looking at the scientist's past work, he's issued a large number of reports about thinning of the continental icecap. Methinks his most recent statements have been slightly misrepresented.

Edit: Oh hey I think it flat-out lied. Not surprising, it's one of Murdoch's news outlets.

i believe that the climate is changing, thats clear but i dont think its caused by greenhouse gases. Prove it to me 100% and i will belive it, but it ahsnt been ultimatly proved and even with some of the evidence, none if it to me is 100% so i choose not to believe it.

dont bash me for my views those who are radicly enviromentalis, its just my view and you scremaing at me wont change it.

i believe that the climate is changing, thats clear but i dont think its caused by greenhouse gases. Prove it to me 100% and i will belive it, but it ahsnt been ultimatly proved and even with some of the evidence, none if it to me is 100% so i choose not to believe it.

dont bash me for my views those who are radicly enviromentalis, its just my view and you scremaing at me wont change it.

Good for you.

You're not any kind of elected official are you?

i believe that the climate is changing, thats clear but i dont think its caused by greenhouse gases. Prove it to me 100% and i will belive it, but it ahsnt been ultimatly proven and even with some of the evidence,. None if it to me is 100% so i choose not to believe it.

dont bash me for my views those who are radicly enviromentalis, its just my view and you scremaing at me wont change it.

F

See me after class young man.

damnit!!! another situation where women are immune!!! :mad:

Are they? :eek:

Im a bit too young :P

Although i may be Jesus, i have yet to discover.

do i ahve to mr.Khad?

aaaawww :(

Im a bit too young :P

Although i may be Jesus, i have yet to discover.

Good.

i believe that the climate is changing, thats clear but i dont think its caused by greenhouse gases. Prove it to me 100% and i will belive it, but it ahsnt been ultimatly proved and even with some of the evidence, none if it to me is 100% so i choose not to believe it.

dont bash me for my views those who are radicly enviromentalis, its just my view and you scremaing at me wont change it.

Scream at you? Through the computer? *ponders*

Second of all, what do you mean by ultimately proven? I think that if the theory is based on proven facts, there has been few/no reasonable claims otherwise, and the UN has agreed that we are causing global warming. Need you further proof?

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming. It's greenhouse gases, not icehouse gases. Greenhouse gases are going to going to cause the temperature to rise, not fall, Greenland is going to really become Greenland because there won't be any more ice on it, sea levels are going to rise and the Maldive Islands are going to become the first nation to sink under the sea.

That is what the Kyotomaniacs and Goreans have been banging their gums about for the last 15+ years, not "climate change." Not one of them has been telling us to cut carbon emissions because otherwise we'll be creating another Ice Age.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

Actually, there was a really stupid movie about climate change resulting in a new ice age that came out a few years back...

The Academic Challenge/Quiz Team Movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319262/)

here we go again.

Perhaps the planet is trying to lull us into a false sense of security. It's like a colossal game of chess with feints and misdirections to distract us from the main goal of the planet's attempts to drown Tuvaluvians, reclaim Florida and make everyone's balls hang so low, we'll never be able to wear gym shorts again without childish snickers from those around us.

Exactly. I'm sick of all of these scientists acting like this is the result of impartial laws of nature, and that if we lower greenhouse emissions we'll see changes, blah blah blah. The Universe is out to get us, mark my word. Our only hope is to enter a different dimension, preferably one with dragon-riders.

Exactly. I'm sick of all of these scientists acting like this is the result of impartial laws of nature, and that if we lower greenhouse emissions we'll see changes, blah blah blah. The Universe is out to get us, mark my word. Our only hope is to enter a different dimension, preferably one with dragon-riders.

Don't worry, the LHC should be fixed soon.

you all laugh with glee now but I wonder who will be laughing when Antarctica starts expanding into Australia!

also you guys take your claim seriously don't you?

Fuck! Didnt we have plans to annex that shit? lol

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming. It's greenhouse gases, not icehouse gases. Greenhouse gases are going to going to cause the temperature to rise, not fall, Greenland is going to really become Greenland because there won't be any more ice on it, sea levels are going to rise and the Maldive Islands are going to become the first nation to sink under the sea.

That is what the Kyotomaniacs and Goreans have been banging their gums about for the last 15+ years, not "climate change." Not one of them has been telling us to cut carbon emissions because otherwise we'll be creating another Ice Age.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

1. Global Climate Change began to be used because uninformed tools like certian vocal people would walk around and scream "ITS SNOWING OUTSIDE CLEARLY GLOBAL WARMING IS FALSE". Besides, climate change is accurate. Climates all over the world ARE changing. The average temperature is rising. Both terms are correct.

2. No facts of ours have been exposed as 'bogus'. Quite the contrary actually. The case has only gotten stronger. There is a reason the vast majority of climateologists, and thoses whose field involves climate work, accept it as true.

3. The only thing that "must be stopped" is all the junk science being thrown around by partisan hacks on the right that are bent on making this a political issue for god knows what reason.

4. Why should we believe anything your side has to say? You were the side that 5 years ago was howling about how the climate hasnt changed at all. Now that youve been thorouglhy proven wrong, you changed your arguement to "Ok, well, its totally natural!" Why should we believe you this time? Especially when you lack evidence.

Of course, you wont respond to this. Your hit and run has been made. If you stayed around, you might see your points get destroyed. And you dont want that.

It must be stopped.

Ordinarily, I'd just point out how utterly wrong you are, but, today I'm in the mood to feed some of this paranoid rant of yours, so, here goes:

It won't! Democrats hold power now, and they will deal with climate change as they see fit, and there's nothing you can do about it. How do you like that? How does that make you feel? Powerless, perhaps?

Don't worry, the LHC should be fixed soon.
Good, though as an American, I suppose I should be rooting for Fermilab.

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming. It's greenhouse gases, not icehouse gases. Greenhouse gases are going to going to cause the temperature to rise, not fall, Greenland is going to really become Greenland because there won't be any more ice on it, sea levels are going to rise and the Maldive Islands are going to become the first nation to sink under the sea.

That is what the Kyotomaniacs and Goreans have been banging their gums about for the last 15+ years, not "climate change." Not one of them has been telling us to cut carbon emissions because otherwise we'll be creating another Ice Age.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.
Are you a crazy person?

Are you a crazy person?

*Snip*

Personally, I'm doing everything I can to increase my carbon footprint. :p

I ain't saying a thing.

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming. It's greenhouse gases, not icehouse gases. Greenhouse gases are going to going to cause the temperature to rise, not fall, Greenland is going to really become Greenland because there won't be any more ice on it, sea levels are going to rise and the Maldive Islands are going to become the first nation to sink under the sea.

That is what the Kyotomaniacs and Goreans have been banging their gums about for the last 15+ years, not "climate change." Not one of them has been telling us to cut carbon emissions because otherwise we'll be creating another Ice Age.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

The original theory did accomodate for temperatures in specific areas getting colder, as it was stated that "global warming" would disturb ocean currents due to the warming north pole. However, nothing that has happened has disproven their idea of a gradual worldwide warming, which will require some areas to cool down first. The only reason they changed the official name to "climate change" was to prevent radical capitalists/consumerists from claiming "it r getin coldur in mah nayburhood so globul warmin iz fals."

Looking at the scientist's past work, he's issued a large number of reports about thinning of the continental icecap. Methinks his most recent statements have been slightly misrepresented.

Edit: Oh hey I think it flat-out lied. Not surprising, it's one of Murdoch's "news" outlets.

Fixed for accuracy.

No, it's global warming. This entire panic has been sold to the public as global warming. It's greenhouse gases, not icehouse gases. Greenhouse gases are going to going to cause the temperature to rise, not fall, Greenland is going to really become Greenland because there won't be any more ice on it, sea levels are going to rise and the Maldive Islands are going to become the first nation to sink under the sea.

That is what the Kyotomaniacs and Goreans have been banging their gums about for the last 15+ years, not "climate change." Not one of them has been telling us to cut carbon emissions because otherwise we'll be creating another Ice Age.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

*beats New Mittani over the head with the wiffle ball bat of truth*

Hopefully, that will pay back how painful of an assault this post was on my intelligence.

The attempt to replace global warming with "climate change" is nothing but spin and deception now that more and more facts are in exposing their original argument as bogus, and a desperate attempt to maintain their momentum toward government control over all aspects of the economy and individual rights. It must be stopped.

I - um, wow. Are you serious? I really hope you're just parodying... something. I hate to tell you, but you sound like a complete maniac.

You know why it's called global warming? Because as a general effect of greenhouse gases, the overall warmth of the Earth is going to increase.

This will cause the climates of the world to change, most becoming hotter, some becoming colder; many suffering drought or flood or other disasters. The reason they're changing the term now is precisely because the original term for it was misunderstood by the public.

Honestly, the concept isn't exactly difficult to understand. It's simple fact that we are putting out large amounts of pollutant gases; these gases happen to be greenhouse gases. The effect of releasing greenhouse gas into the atmosphere is going to be global warming. It really is incredibly simple. What about it do you not understand?

[QUOTE=No Names Left Damn It;14715102So if temperatures are supposedly increasing, why is this happening?[/QUOTE]

Bwahaha not another one!:D

Bwahaha not another one!:D

Another one who isn't blinded by lies? Yes.

Another one who isn't blinded by lies? Yes.

I like how you don't bother trying to respond to anyone who's giving your arguments credence. It makes it so much easier to dismiss you as an uninformed loudmouth crackpot.

Another one who isn't blinded by lies? Yes.

I think you may have mistaken the polarising sunglasses of truth for the blinkers of ignorance on your way out the door. It almost sounds like you have taken a contrary view just to pick yourself out from the crowd.

What would you need to see to be convinced, exactly?

Its down to a resurgence in the number of pirates.

If this continues, we'll be back to panicking about global cooling within the year.

I knew it!!!!

In fact, I made a thread about this a couple months back, let's see if I can find it again...

Another one who isn't blinded by lies? Yes.

Heheh even funnyer. So what lies exactly then?

i believe that the climate is changing, thats clear but i dont think its caused by greenhouse gases. Prove it to me 100% and i will belive it, but it ahsnt been ultimatly proved and even with some of the evidence, none if it to me is 100% so i choose not to believe it.
I take it you also don't believe in gravity or electricity. Neither of those have been proven 100%.

I - um, wow. Are you serious? I really hope you're just parodying... something. I hate to tell you, but you sound like a complete maniac.

You know why it's called global warming? Because as a general effect of greenhouse gases, the overall warmth of the Earth is going to increase.

This will cause the climates of the world to change, most becoming hotter, some becoming colder; many suffering drought or flood or other disasters. The reason they're changing the term now is precisely because the original term for it was misunderstood by the public.

Honestly, the concept isn't exactly difficult to understand. It's simple fact that we are putting out large amounts of pollutant gases; these gases happen to be greenhouse gases. The effect of releasing greenhouse gas into the atmosphere is going to be global warming. It really is incredibly simple. What about it do you not understand?
New Mitanni is your standard right-winger so he believes that humans are completely unable to indirectly, or even directly!, affect the climate or environment. Likely only because Limbaugh told him so and thus it must be true.

What would you need to see to be convinced, exactly?

Actual proof.

Actual proof.

Just like 1+1=2, greenhouse gas emissions with an external source of energy will result in warming.

What more do you want?

Actual proof.

Up until two years ago, I was a sceptic. I'm also extremely stubborn and hard-headed. In fact, I have an ongoing argument with a priest over the accuracy of the Bible that's lasted five years now. If they've convinced me of it, then there's enough evidence.

Actual proof.

Oh, so youre one of those people for whom mounds and mounds of scientific evidence doesnt equate to 'proof'.

Tell me, are you a creationist too?

Growing shirking I do not care.
That is all.

Oh, so youre one of those people for whom mounds and mounds of scientific evidence doesnt equate to 'proof'.

Tell me, are you a creationist too?

How many English people do you know that are Creationists? No, of course I'm not a Creationist, for the same reason I don't believe humans are the sole contributor to Global Warming. It's because I look at scientific fact. But then, you're a Communist, so what would you know about scientific fact?

How many English people do you know that are Creationists? No, of course I'm not a Creationist, for the same reason I don't believe humans are the sole contributor to Global Warming. It's because I look at scientific fact.
And most scientists dont think man is the sole contributor to global warming. But denying man plays a role is ignoring the evidence.
But then, you're a Communist, so what would you know about scientific fact?
Ignoring the fact that this comment is totally irrelevent, a hell of a lot.

But then, you're a Communist, so what would you know about scientific fact?

So, let's see here.

Mis-applying inflammatory buzzword, check.

Claiming him "being a communist" means he doesn't know science, check.

Yep. That sentence invalidated your post.

What this evidence points to, is that our earth is beginning to undergo another magnetic pole switch. This also would cause temporary global warming due to the decreasing size of the Van Allen radiation belt and the increasing proximity of destructive solar radiation to the earth. *nods*
I believe we're overdue one.

And now.....

The rest of the story:

http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/press/press_releases/press_release.php?id=838
Our results show the complexity of climate change across the Earth. While there is increasing evidence that the loss of sea ice in the Arctic has occurred due to human activity, in the Antarctic human influence through the ozone hole has had the reverse effect and resulted in more ice. Although the ozone hole is in many ways holding back the effects of greenhouse gas increases on the Antarctic, this will not last

because its the start of winter in the souther hemisphere.

qft.

reclaim Florida

But I'll drown...:(