NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/world/middleeast/19iran.html?_r=1

I'm sure some of you are aware of my love affair with inviolate sovereignty for countries. However, I think its about damn time Iran got put in its place.

TEHRAN, April 18 — A revolutionary court has sentenced an Iranian-American journalist, Roxana Saberi, to eight years in prison after convicting her of spying for the United States, her lawyer said Saturday.

"Roxana said in court that her earlier confessions were not true and she told me she had been tricked into believing that she would be released if she cooperated," her father, Reza Saberi, told A.F.P.

"Her denial is documented in her case but apparently they did not pay attention to it," he added, without saying when he had spoken to his daughter.

"We are very shocked and we were not expecting it,” A.F.P. quoted him as saying. “We were hoping for six months and then clemency."

On Thursday the State Department said that Ms. Saberi’s jailing was not helpful and that Iran would gain good will from the United States if it “responded in a positive way” to the case, The A.P. had reported. “This charge is baseless and it’s without foundation,” Robert Wood, a State Department spokesman, said last week.

But Alireza Jamshidi, told ISNA, a news agency, on Tuesday that Washington’s intervention in the case was “ridiculous and against international laws.”

“It is ridiculous for a person or a government to make comments about a case without examining the evidence first and to make this kind of judgment to say if a person is guilty or not,” he said.
What I think the guy who is quoted above doesn't get (or more likely, won't recognize on the record) is that this has nothing to do with Saberi's supposed offenses. This is showmanship from Iran, trying to influence the talks we are in with them over their nuclear weapons program.

An Update

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8006561.stm

President Barack Obama "is deeply disappointed at this news," his spokesman Robert Gibbs said.

Correspondents say the case will have serious implications for US-Iranian relations at a time when Mr Obama has reached out to the Tehran.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton earlier expressed her disappointment at the sentence.

She said the US would vigorously raise its concerns about the case with Tehran.

Washington, which has no diplomatic ties with Iran, was working with Swiss diplomats in Tehran to obtain details about the court's decision and ensure Ms Saberi's well-being, she said.
It raises deep suspicions over whether the case has been hijacked by hardliners within the Iranian government, eager to sabotage any reconciliation, the BBC's Jon Leyne reports from Tehran.

No details of the evidence against Ms Saberi have been made public.

Ms Saberi, who was arrested in January and went on trial this week, denies the charge and plans to go on hunger strike, her father said.

Reza Saberi told National Public Radio (NPR) that his daughter was tricked into making incriminating statements by officials who told her they would free her if she did.
Public awareness of Ms Saberi's situation is low in Iran, where local media do not seem to have reported her arrest or trial in any way, our correspondent says.

Whoever the corrospondant that reported on this is is a brave person because they are going to be charged with espionage next.

Iran fucking sucks, but I found this interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8006861.stm

Iran fucking sucks, but I found this interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8006861.stm

I find it interesting that the Iranian President seems to be saying things which are reasonable and "not crazy" too :P However, I think he (and by that I mean his political advisers) see the colossal cockup this is when it comes to the diplomatic relations that Iran wants to develop with the US. Its clear that Obama and his administration are making real and valuable overtures towards the Iranian government towards the end of reestablishing diplomatic relations, which could have so many positive effects within Iran that it would take a long time to list them. So while Ahmadinejad probably wasn't involved in the original arrest, he now wants to get involved in the form of moderating these trumped up charges, because Obama is not a happy camper at this point, and certainly all this negative reporting on the part of the news agencies against Iran is not going to play well among the American public.

I would be very curious to hear what he's telling the prosecutors in the non-public communications he has with them. More specifically, if he's telling them to quietly let this go away, or if they are being told something else.

"Roxana said in court that her earlier confessions were not true and she told me she had been tricked into believing that she would be released if she cooperated," her father, Reza Saberi, told A.F.P.

well that was stupid shes now signed up saying shes a spy and is essentially bitching because the Iranians don't have credibility to worry about

Obama is not a happy camper at this point

whats he going to do? demand Iran freeze its nuclear ambitions

whats he going to do? demand Iran freeze its nuclear ambitions

It would be very easy for him to cut back on the diplomatic overtures he's been making. Iran can shout and throw its arms in the air all it wants, but diplomatic relations with the US have many benefits, and if the Iranian President wants to legitimize his nation as something other than a theocratic crazy-regime, relations with the US are a huge step in the right direction. Ahmadinejad is a smart politician - he talks the crazy religious talk when it is politically expedient, but he also knows when its time to go secular and listen to reason.

It would be very easy for him to cut back on the diplomatic overtures he's been making.

and what has this brought Iran, the nuclear ambitions are still there and whilst it continues the US and Iran will not be on good terms with sanction never being lifted

and what has this brought Iran, the nuclear ambitions are still there and whilst it continues the US and Iran will not be on good terms with sanction never being lifted

I am not afraid of a nuclear Iran. However, I do think you're wrong.

I don't think nuclear ambitions are what hold back US-Iranian relations. Its Islamophobia, a holdover from Bush's refusal to do business with any regime he didn't like/agree with. That's why the government's policy towards states like Iran changed practically overnight (overnoon?), January 20. And even if you are afraid of a nuclear Iran, the best way to prevent that from happening, believe it or not, is not to sit on the sidelines and yell at them. It is to engage them. Iran wants legitimacy more than it wants nuclear reactors or nuclear bombs. Those don't do it much good, whereas international recognition (and the diplomatic benefits which follow) do. The so-called nuclear ambitions were a political move, just like everything else Ahmadinejad does.

SNIP

stop. I am not deathly afraid of Iran getting nukes that would be silly

however even the current US administration (and the EU for what its worth) has put its foot down on the Iran nuclear issue and the sanctions on Iran for the program have not stopped and will likely continue for the foreseeable future (along with Iranian interference in Iraq and Afghanistan)

hell even if the US magically didn't care Israel would and so you would find yourself pulled right back into a clusterfuck

however even the current US administration (and the EU for what its worth) has put its foot down on the Iran nuclear issue and the sanctions on Iran for the program have not stopped and will likely continue for the foreseeable future (along with Iranian interference in Iraq and Afghanistan)

hell even if the US magically didn't care Israel would and so you would find yourself pulled right back into a clusterfuck

I'm very hopeful that this administration will pull back on the US' blind support of Israel. I have wanted that for an eternity.

I'm very hopeful that this administration will pull back on the US' blind support of Israel. I have wanted that for an eternity.

and even if it did Israel would start air strikes (and evidence has emerged of Israel asking for US permission in 2007 iirc) which would drag you into a diplomatic hell kicking and screaming

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/world/middleeast/19iran.html?_r=1

I'm sure some of you are aware of my love affair with inviolate sovereignty for countries. However, I think its about damn time Iran got put in its place.

What I think the guy who is quoted above doesn't get (or more likely, won't recognize on the record) is that this has nothing to do with Saberi's supposed offenses. This is showmanship from Iran, trying to influence the talks we are in with them over their nuclear weapons program.


Regardless, I agree that Iran needs to Chill. I don't have a problem with the Muslim people until and unless they try to force there ideals on America and the rest of the world. I will also say that we
must protect Israel .... period.

Regardless, I agree that Iran needs to Chill. I don't have a problem with the Muslim people until and unless they try to force there ideals on America and the rest of the world. I will also say that we
must protect Israel .... period.

Ah, jumping on the Ebil Mozlem Hivemind bandwagon are you?

I was going to say "inb4 ebil moslems" but Ive apperantly been beaten to the punch.

So Ill just say inb4 'bomb iran lulz'

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/middleeast/20iran.html?hp


It appears that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seems to, at least in apperance, disagree with the court.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/middleeast/20iran.html?hp


It appears that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seems to, at least in apperance, disagree with the court.

Given that Obama is almost a 180 spin from Dear Leader's reign, Mahmoud doesn't want to be seen as the Iranian President who smacked away a shot at normalizing relationships with the U.S.

Half the world just Boycotted the Rascism Talks, mainly because Iran is going to be the first ones to speak, I give 9 out of 10 odds they will say something about "Evil Zionists".

Half the world just Boycotted the Rascism Talks, mainly because Iran is going to be the first ones to speak, I give 9 out of 10 odds they will say something about "Evil Zionists".

Which has what to do with this? :confused:

Meanwhile, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8007822.stm
Iran's judiciary chief has ordered a "quick and fair" appeal for US-Iranian reporter Roxana Saberi, jailed last week for eight years for spying.
Ayatollah Shahrudi said the different aspects of this case "should be fairly, accurately and quickly considered".

All I can say is: Thank Christ that McCain isn't the President, otherwise Iran would probably be a crater right now.

Which has what to do with this? :confused:


I'm just pointing out that Iran had plenty to "Grandstand" about right now.

Ah, jumping on the Ebil Mozlem Hivemind bandwagon are you?

Actually I support Israel because the Bible speaks of a curse that God will put on any country that attacks Israel. I don't wish to see America cursed because of this.

This reminds me of the days when the 'Evil Empire' would convict reporters for espionage. The Soviets always wanted some favor and the reporter would be used as a bargaining chip.

I wonder what Iran wants.

Actually I support Israel because the Bible speaks of a curse that God will put on any country that attacks Israel. I don't wish to see America cursed because of this.

Yes, well. I hope the US bases its foreign policy on something more...secular and factual, let's say.

I think Ahmedmenijahd is playing it smart. If they do a nice clean trial and she gets off, the chance for diplomatic realtions is still viable. If they have a nice clean trial and they actually have good evidence she's a spy, it's still a win for Ahmedmenijahd.

Yes, well. I hope the US bases its foreign policy on something more...secular and factual, let's say.

I think Ahmedmenijahd is playing it smart. If they do a nice clean trial and she gets off, the chance for diplomatic realtions is still viable. If they have a nice clean trial and they actually have good evidence she's a spy, it's still a win for Ahmedmenijahd.


There are many facts concerning the Bible, please don't dismiss it out of hand.

There are many facts concerning the Bible, please don't dismiss it out of hand.

God placing curses on nations is not one of those facts.

God placing curses on nations is not one of those facts.


Better to be sure then not I always say :p

Better to be sure then not I always say :p

I think we can be fairly certain that god won't put a plague on any nation simply due to its lack of military alliances.

For evidence, I will point to the complete lack of verified miracles and plagues in the historical record that can be shown to be caused by Yahweh.

Better to be sure then not I always say :p

Then you better send me $50,000 in cash, just in case I can curse you if you don't.

Then you better send me $50,000 in cash, just in case I can curse you if you don't.

*shakes voodoo rattle stick in preparation*

Then you better send me $50,000 in cash, just in case I can curse you if you don't.

*shakes voodoo rattle stick in preparation*

Up your butt, Sdaeriji.

*Steals rum and drinks it*

Yo Bartender, Sdaeriji needs a refill!