NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_on_re_af/af_piracy;_ylt=AkY6wBWl_UZ9uH5vy.VZHAsuQE4F;_ylu=X3oDMTJjcjMwb2YyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDE4L2FmX3BpcmF jeQRjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwaXJhdGVzc2VpemU-

I say every time NATO forces catch a pirate off the coast of Somalia, they confiscate all the weapons, they confiscate their speedboats, and they bring them to the nearest port with a working government for trial and imprisonment.

I'm not sure if the attacks have increased recently because they're feeling dishonored, or if the media's just decided, "Hey, this will sell!" This has been going on for far too long, and it's time the entire world grows a pair, works together on this, and puts an end to it. The expedient way would be to sink them every time they approach a ship, but I prefer capturing them, putting them on trial, and imprisoning them if found guilty. Rule of law and all that.

I say every time NATO forces catch a pirate off the coast of Somalia, they confiscate all the weapons, they confiscate their speedboats, and they bring them to the nearest port with a working government for trial and imprisonment.


In theory, yes.
In practice, that's Kenya.


Eeeehhhhhhh.

A few rather important points you're missing. The attacks usually occur by night; they're usually seen far too late for escorts to be called in; during daytime, they just look like cute fishermen. You want to control a thousand fishing boats, every day? And they don't even have to check out their future targets by going close (Meaning the 'Only bother with those coming close' qualifier doesn't apply) - they've GPS and can pick their targets without ever seeing them before the actual nighttime-attack
There's too few escorts to guard every ship going through, and organising convoys would cost BILLIONS - considerably more than is lost to the pirates
In any case, killin' pirates, they'll just be replaced by more pirates. Piracy started its rise roughly at the time the fishermen went broke because Russians and others had fished the water off Somalia close to fish-free. Differet job, if you will. They aren't going to stop just because the job just got dangerous - they still make millions with it, nevermind their considerable financial backing

You want to control a thousand fishing boats, every day?
Kill them all; the Pirate God will know his own.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_on_re_af/af_piracy;_ylt=AkY6wBWl_UZ9uH5vy.VZHAsuQE4F;_ylu=X3oDMTJjcjMwb2YyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDE4L2FmX3BpcmF jeQRjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwaXJhdGVzc2VpemU-

I say every time NATO forces catch a pirate off the coast of Somalia, they confiscate all the weapons, they confiscate their speedboats, and they bring them to the nearest port with a working government for trial and imprisonment.

I'm not sure if the attacks have increased recently because they're feeling dishonored, or if the media's just decided, "Hey, this will sell!" This has been going on for far too long, and it's time the entire world grows a pair, works together on this, and puts an end to it. The expedient way would be to sink them every time they approach a ship, but I prefer capturing them, putting them on trial, and imprisoning them if found guilty. Rule of law and all that.

The attacks increased recently because it is pirating season - when they first started reporting, it wasn't - the seas and weather were rough, now they arn't. Though now US flagged ships are going to be no-quarter. The first time they succeed, there is going to be a media circus to rival any.

Arm the merchantmen in some way. Its the only way to solve this problem.

Higher privateers to deal with the problem.

Kill them all; the Pirate God will know his own.

Are not five fishermen sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by Me. Indeed, the very hairs of pirate heads are all numbered. Don't be afraid; they are worth more than many fishermen.

Higher privateers to deal with the problem.

Ron Paul seriously suggested something like this, I heard. Letters of marque and all that.

Kill them all; the Pirate God will know his own.
http://www.crackedpixels.net/files/images/fsm.jpg
Arm the merchantmen in some way. Its the only way to solve this problem.

Trained security on board would work better than just handing out guns. Merchantmen are just that, not soldiers. The pirates have the advantage in experience, if not training(at least one hopes nobody is training the pirates). The merchants would do little more than take a few pirates with them. Hardly a deterrent.

Unfortunately, trained security will cost more than a box of guns and ammo per ship. So will most methods of effectively deterring pirates, whether its reworking international and national laws so they can serve an appropriate amount of jail time when captured or defending merchant vessels from attack in the first place. Or both.
Higher privateers to deal with the problem.
Who should hire them? Governments or the companies affected?

Oh, and technically the function of privateers was to destroy enemy shipping during wartime. But I can only assume you mean them to serve as escorts to shipping vessels, so I'll just leave this here to display my speedy wiki-ing skillz.

Higher privateers to deal with the problem.

Fool! How do you think my spawn were birthed?

Hiring even 2-3 mercenaries to protect a vessel might go pretty far in deterring piracy also.

I like Kat's idea too; NATO is supposedly one of the more ballsy international organizations out there; NATO should just start as an organization capturing and trying pirates. Taking their easy to get ahold of weaponry away is not going to deter them one bit when they make millions from each ransomed person and can buy another AK for about $100.

It is discouraging to have something that is so much fun (pretending to be a pirate) spoiled by reality :(

It is discouraging to have something that is so much fun (pretending to be a pirate) spoiled by reality :(

But we are the pirates who don't do anything.

We surely need some ninjas.

It is discouraging to have something that is so much fun (pretending to be a pirate) spoiled by reality :(

Most of the cool things people dress as are actually not so cool in reality.

Most of the cool things people dress as are actually not so cool in reality.

No way - next thing you'll be saying Nazis aren't cool!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aBppc_BY5Nc/Rd4Kp5Z4f7I/AAAAAAAAANQ/BSXZYSD8Pwg/s320/Prince%2520Harry%2520Nazi.jpg



I'm definitely for the more elegant 'ninja solution'... It's just getting them on the boats that poses the real problem.

Ninjas are no match for pirates, especially not one with 'modern' weapons and transportation.

Hiring even 2-3 mercenaries to protect a vessel might go pretty far in deterring piracy also.

Not at all. It just means the pirates will start trying to kill people. They've got a choice between piracy and a life not far from Hell itself. The threat of death will not be a deterrence.

Ninjas are no match for pirates, especially not one with 'modern' weapons and transportation.

You don't need guns or armour if you're invisible, and can make someone's heart explode in their chest with a single blow.

If you don't believe me, just watch 'Under Siege'!

Most of the cool things people dress as are actually not so cool in reality.

Wot, like vampires and zombies? But the young lady who fancy-dressed having a third breast, she was very cool IRL. More fun to talk about than how to muck about in Somalia to deter RL pirates. It's a mess to rival the Middle East :(

You don't need guns or armour if you're invisible, and can make someone's heart explode in their chest with a single blow.

If you don't believe me, just watch 'Under Siege'!

Steven Segal isn't a ninja, he's a chef. :rolleyes:

Steven Segal isn't a ninja, he's a chef. :rolleyes:

My Apologies - I stand corrected.

We should send Chefs to fight the pirates!

My Apologies - I stand corrected.

We should send Chefs to fight the pirates!

And surely this will spell their doom.

Not at all. It just means the pirates will start trying to kill people. They've got a choice between piracy and a life not far from Hell itself. The threat of death will not be a deterrence.

The Pirates are not after the cargoes, they are after the people on the ship. Each person they kill is one less person they can ransom. The last thing the Pirates want is a gunfight on board the ship. If you go further and pay the mercenaries bounties for live pirates they capture attacking a ship then you give the mercenaries incentive not to start killing people too.

The Pirates are not after the cargoes, they are after the people on the ship. Each person they kill is one less person they can ransom. The last thing the Pirates want is a gunfight on board the ship. If you go further and pay the mercenaries bounties for live pirates they capture attacking a ship then you give the mercenaries incentive not to start killing people too.

The cargo and the ship itself are still worth money. Not as much as the ransoms for the crew, but still. Besides, just because they're dead doesn't mean you can't make people pay a ransom for them.

Just keep in mind, we'll have to consider the impact of an anti-piracy program on Global Warming.

And surely this will spell their doom.

Surely they will cook their doom? And lightly season it with violence topped with grated revenge.

We surely need some ninjas.

"When the King of Pirates comes in his glory, and all the buccaneers with him, he will sit on his ship in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the pirates and the ninja one from another as an internet debater separates the pirates from the ninja. He will put the pirates on his right and the ninja on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Captain; take your inheritance, the booty prepared for you since the creation of the seas. For I was hungry and you stole anything I could have had to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me rum, I was a stranger and you invited me in before stealing everything I had, I needed clothes and you plundered those as well, I was sick and you looked after my wife. Carnally. I was in prison and you were the reason.'

"Then the scallywags will answer him, 'Captain, when did we see you hungry and steal from you, or thirsty and give you rum? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in before stealing everything you had, or needing clothes and plunder those as well? When did we see you sick or in prison and sleep with your wife?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his ninja. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. You didn't even rob me. What an incredibly boring lot.'

"They also will answer, 'Captain, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not rob you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to booty."

Pirate Bible: Fucking win.

Merchant ships are not allowed to be armed by international law. Not that arming them is a bad idea, but in the past governments had to worry about merchant ships being a ruse for navy vessels.

But we are the pirates who don't do anything.
:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Katganistan/10pira600.jpg?t=1240096106

Not at all. It just means the pirates will start trying to kill people. They've got a choice between piracy and a life not far from Hell itself. The threat of death will not be a deterrence.
They've already threatened to start killing people.

The Pirates are not after the cargoes, they are after the people on the ship. Each person they kill is one less person they can ransom. The last thing the Pirates want is a gunfight on board the ship. If you go further and pay the mercenaries bounties for live pirates they capture attacking a ship then you give the mercenaries incentive not to start killing people too.

Well yes. If the pirates are all killed there isn't much assurance to those paying that the "pirates" weren't just fishermen. Guns or RPGs could be planted on the bodies.

But if it comes to that, how to prove that a captured pirate really was engaged in piracy?

This is why I favour the use of regular military instead of mercenaries. There are extra cabins beyond what the crew requires, on many freighters. Soldiers travelling in there would be cheaper than a naval escort and have the element of surprise. Not quite as cheap as mercs perhaps but you get what you pay for.

=======

Pirate Bible: Fucking win.

Oh. I was about to call that a "good post." -1 Geniasis for plagiarism.

Merchant ships are not allowed to be armed by international law. Not that arming them is a bad idea, but in the past governments had to worry about merchant ships being a ruse for navy vessels.

And I think in this case we have to worry about others (not from Somalia) getting into the piracy business, under cover of carrying weapons and trained men for self defence.

The most common nationality for merchant sailors is Philippine. Quite a bit of piracy there.

Oh. I was about to call that a "good post." -1 Geniasis for plagiarism.

The "plagiarized text" came from Matthew 25 (Sheep on the right, goats on the left). I touched it up myself. If there is a Pirate Bible, I know not of it.

They've already threatened to start killing people.

Oh, they've threatened to do so. They just have had no intention of carrying out that threat. I've not even been able to find a time when they killed anyone.

The "plagiarized text" came from Matthew 25 (Sheep on the right, goats on the left). I touched it up myself. If there is a Pirate Bible, I know not of it.

Nice work then. :)

Honestly there's a pretty easy way to deal with the piracy. Just stop sending ships into sovereign Somalian waters.

Honestly there's a pretty easy way to deal with the piracy. Just stop sending ships into sovereign Somalian waters.

Aren't the Somalians attacking ships several hundred miles off their coast? And throughout the Gulf of Aden?

I did a Google Image search and came up with this (http://unosat.web.cern.ch/unosat/freeproducts/east_and_horn_of_africa/UNOSAT_horn_piracy28mar06_small.jpg). So for the most part you're right.

Aren't the Somalians attacking ships several hundred miles off their coast? And throughout the Gulf of Aden?

I did a Google Image search and came up with this (http://unosat.web.cern.ch/unosat/freeproducts/east_and_horn_of_africa/UNOSAT_horn_piracy28mar06_small.jpg).

The cross-hatched zone isn't actually Somali waters -- it's a two-hundred mile zone. Territorial waters are at most 12 miles around the coast. Look at the coast of Yemen, does it make any sense that "Somali waters" go right up to that? Also, it's from March 2006.

Nice map tho.

Nice work then. :)

Why thank you. Although, as I'm claiming to be the Pirate God, plagiarism would have been somewhat fitting. :tongue::tongue:

Another nice map, from the International Maritime Board for 2008: Live Piracy Map 2008 (http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=89)

Whether shipping is taken over near the Yemen side of the straight because it is all sailing over that side, or because Somaliland has somehow persuaded pirates not to operate in its waters ... I don't know enough to say.

EDIT: Even better, here is the 2009 Map: 2009 Live Piracy Map (http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=219)

Another nice map, from the International Maritime Board for 2008: Live Piracy Map 2008 (http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=89)

Whether shipping is taken over near the Yemen side of the straight because it is all sailing over that side, or because Somaliland has somehow persuaded pirates not to operate in its waters ... I don't know enough to say.

EDIT: Even better, here is the 2009 Map: 2009 Live Piracy Map (http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=219)

Huh. Well, looks like I was wrong. Wouldn't stop it entirely but it would cut it down by quite a bit.

What I find sort of funny in a way. From the article in the opening post, these people were fishermen whose livelihoods were devastated when other countries used their waters as international water, overfishing and devastating stocks... and the international community didn't care. Now they're pirates. Now they effect trade. All of a sudden, people care.

I sense a business opportunity. Park a registered private security vessel on the entry and exit to the gulf. Load them down with a great many well trained and well armed security teams. Rent them out to ships passing through, and have them collected once they leave the region. No fuss with weapons in foreign ports, pirates get to eat lead, and the PMC walks away richer. Everyone wins but the pirates.

I sense a business opportunity. Park a registered private security vessel on the entry and exit to the gulf. Load them down with a great many well trained and well armed security teams. Rent them out to ships passing through, and have them collected once they leave the region. No fuss with weapons in foreign ports, pirates get to eat lead, and the PMC walks away richer. Everyone wins but the pirates.

Why not, however private security forces with lots of weapons is frowned upon now days. Government don't like competition.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_on_re_af/af_piracy;_ylt=AkY6wBWl_UZ9uH5vy.VZHAsuQE4F;_ylu=X3oDMTJjcjMwb2YyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDE4L2FmX3BpcmF jeQRjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwaXJhdGVzc2VpemU-

I say every time NATO forces catch a pirate off the coast of Somalia, they confiscate all the weapons, they confiscate their speedboats, and they bring them to the nearest port with a working government for trial and imprisonment.
Nope. The Somali government is shite, so I doubt they'll be able to run a jail. When captured, they ought to shot and sent back to their point of origin in a box as a message that we will not tolerate piracy any more.

Arm the merchantmen in some way. Its the only way to solve this problem.

Install six 50mm cannons fore, aft and midships. Assign Navy or Coast Guard guncrews to each ship. Assign a small Marine or Seal contingent to each ship. It shouldn't take too much time before the pirates decide that piracy isn't cost effective - at least on American ships.

I think someting like this was done with Merchant Marine ships during WWII.

It is discouraging to have something that is so much fun (pretending to be a pirate) spoiled by reality :(

:) True, so true.

Install six 50mm cannons fore, aft and midships. Assign Navy or Coast Guard guncrews to each ship. Assign a small Marine or Seal contingent to each ship. It shouldn't take too much time before the pirates decide that piracy isn't cost effective - at least on American ships.

Thing is, only a tiny proportion of the world's shipping is both owned and registered in the US. Things like "installing 50mm cannons" depend on the law of the country where the ship is registered, ie its flag. It is (or should be) also dependent on the consent of the ship's owner.

So actually, that would achieve very little. Either the ship fires on any other craft it can see (which is a bit psychotic and would lead to such ships being banned from most ports) or else approaching pirates would be able to see the guns and go pick some easier target.

I think someting like this was done with Merchant Marine ships during WWII.

This isn't WWII. Entire oceans are NOT declared war zones, private shipping in the major nations is NOT under de-facto military command, and the scale of disruption of world trade is NOT within several orders of magnitude the same as U-boats sinking ships on the high seas.

That bears repeating. Piracy around Somalia is NOT World War 2. It's a growing problem, and that does demonstrate that something more needs to be done. But in the grand scale of bad things happening in the world, it is a sparrow's fart.

How many sailors happily sailing along on assorted merchats are actually willing to risk their lives shooting at pirates, when they can just as well wait for a ransom being paid, with a much, much lower risk for their lives?

We surely need some ninjas.
Well Japan can't send anything but China does have around 700 members of their special forces on location, close enough right?

-----

Actually I suggest we bring back a variant of the Q-ship.

Kill them all; the Flying Spaghetti Monster will know his own.

Fixed.