NationStates Jolt Archive

You still have not provided any proof that Rick Perry is "calling for secession". Your argument is bogus.

It's a difference in interpretation of his words. Why don't you chalk up ot that and drop this ridiculous petty bullshit argument you have with Heikoku?

Yes, we do:

1964: Civil Rights Act of 1964
1964: Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964
1964: Wilderness Act
1964: Nurse Training Act
1964: Food Stamp Act of 1964
1964: Economic Opportunity Act
1965: Higher Education Act of 1965
1965: Social Security Act of 1965
1965: Voting Rights Act
1965: Immigration and Nationality Services Act of 1965
1966: Freedom of Information Act
1967: Age Discrimination in Employment Act
1967: Public Broadcasting Act of 1967
1968: Bilingual Education Act
1968: Fair housing
1968: Gun Control Act of 1968

Sadly, it also meant the Vietnam War. Those people from Texas, if they ever get it right, might actually turn out okay.

Well, the problem is that the last Texan in office was far too much of a dumb-ass to give another, sensible Texan a chance in quite a while.

Well, the problem is that the last Texan in office was far too much of a dumb-ass to give another, sensible Texan a chance in quite a while.

Yeah, seems that way to me, too. One might question W's Texan credentials, I suppose: born in Connecticut into an elite Eastern family, graduate of Yale. LBJ at least went to what is now Texas State at San Marcos, not exactly one of them effete Ivy League Schools.

To be fair, while consies get all bitchy about a 'liberal' getting into office and threaten secession, liberals will get all bitchy and threaten to move to Canada. Case in point: politics makes people bitchy.

Yeah, seems that way to me, too. One might question W's Texan credentials, I suppose: born in Connecticut into an elite Eastern family, graduate of Yale. LBJ at least went to what is now Texas State at San Marcos, not exactly one of them effete Ivy League Schools.

I guess that if someone like LBJ ever came to consider presidency and become one, then the stigma of Texans GWB cast over the Oval Office could be broken. I don't know. *shrugs*

Even if you wrote Germany instead of Europe, it still doesn't work because Bavaria, while Conservative, is actually a quite important touristic and financial Region.

Texas is pretty important economically to the US.
Oil, lots of the computer industry is based here.
Tax donor state.
Of the big states Texas is the least affected by the current economic crisis.

It's a difference in interpretation of his words. Why don't you chalk up ot that and drop this ridiculous petty bullshit argument you have with Heikoku?Your only post in this thread is to chide me for asking for the OP to provide proof.....now that is petty.

Time to send in federal troops.

I love seeing leftis act like they are so much better than "those people" down there in "those states" . . . . :rolleyes:

Oh for crying out loud. I've seen Ron White, so I know they've heard of humor in the South. Thus, what's your excuse?


Right . . . so protesting against deficit spending and taxation = "we don't want to be forced to acknowledge that Brown people are citizens too" . . .?

Give me a break. :rolleyes:
Riiight. It's all about deficit spending and taxation. Which is why none of these teabaggers were holding these little parties and threatening to leave the Union when Bush was engaging in the most reckless spending in the history of the United States and squandering a massive surplus in order to create more debt for America than every single other president combined. And why these teabaggers suddenly are angry about taxes, now that we've just gotten the biggest tax cut in the country's history.

Oh, and bonus points for ignoring the first half of my "or" sentence. Selective reading comprehension makes it so much easier to construct straw men, amirite?

Your only post in this thread is to chide me for asking for the OP to provide proof.....now that is petty.

Petty is you continuing to pollute this thread with your immature vendetta against Heikoku, after being admonished by a moderator to cease. The "proof" you seek has been posted numerous times in this very thread. It is a matter of opinion and differing interpretations of the words Governor Perry spoke.

Oh for crying out loud.
Riiight. It's all about deficit spending and taxation. Which is why none of these teabaggers were holding these little parties and threatening to leave the Union when Bush was engaging in the most reckless spending in the history of the United States and squandering a massive surplus in order to create more debt for America than every single other president combined. And why these teabaggers suddenly are angry about taxes, now that we've just gotten the biggest tax cut in the country's history.

It's the rising unemployment. And the fact that the promised next quarter turn around never comes.

I'll grant that the tea party thing has been hijacked by asshats (on both the for and against side) but I don't imagine most of these protesters would have shown up for a similar event two years ago; regardless of who was president. It's not that long since Clinton was in office, and those sort of things never happened back then.

If unemployment, foreclosures and all that stuff continues to rise there will be more of this.

Petty is you continuing to pollute this thread with your immature vendetta against Heikoku, after being admonished by a moderator to cease. The "proof" you seek has been posted numerous times in this very thread. It is a matter of opinion and differing interpretations of the words Governor Perry spoke.

1- It is why I say this is about Hillary.

2- And this comes from a poster who calls me on things when he thinks I erred, quite a bit.

So, CH, will you cut that shit out or will we take this to the mods again?

To be fair, while consies get all bitchy about a 'liberal' getting into office and threaten secession, liberals will get all bitchy and threaten to move to Canada. Case in point: politics makes people bitchy.

Then again, there is a difference between going to another country and threatening civil war.

Texas is pretty important economically to the US.
Oil, lots of the computer industry is based here.
Tax donor state.
Of the big states Texas is the least affected by the current economic crisis.
Eh, my point was actually supposed to be that Texas and Bavaria can't be compared economically, without actually judging their respective "superiority".
Seems I messed that up somehow:)

Then again, there is a difference between going to another country and threatening civil war.

I would have thought you would have supported the idea of civil war in the US. (As part of your make south america safe from us.gov.net.cn program). :p

I would have thought you would have supported the idea of civil war in the US. (As part of your make south america safe from us.gov.net.cn program). :p

h knows that without USia around, he'd soon be trampled under the jackboots of suriname

I think the point everyone's missing here is, without us, can you even call it a Civil War? :D

Petty is you continuing to pollute this thread with your immature vendetta against Heikoku, after being admonished by a moderator to cease. The "proof" you seek has been posted numerous times in this very thread. It is a matter of opinion and differing interpretations of the words Governor Perry spoke.
Your second post in this thread is a flame....nice touch. :tongue:

Your second post in this thread is a flame....nice touch. :tongue:

Oh boy. Report him, then, CH, I wanna laugh a little.

Oh boy. Report him, then, CH, I wanna laugh a little.

Then look in the mirror. Or would that make you cry?

Then look in the mirror. Or would that make you cry?

Nah. When I look in the mirror, I wanna dip myself in chocolate while whipping and spanking myself for having been a bad boy and gratifying myself sexually at my own expense.

And then I touch myself improperly.

But I digress. About Perry's statements...

Then look in the mirror. Or would that make you cry?

Why'd you make me do that? :(

georgia got there first
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/16/georgia-senate-threatens-dismantling-of-usa/?cxntfid=blogs_jay_bookman_blog

*sigh*

Oh, how I love my idiot lawmakers. *goes to see who actually voted for it*

Why'd you make me do that? :(

Aw, Skall. :fluffle:

I think you're pretty good looking anyway.

But liberals are anti-American. They prove it every day by wiping their butts with the 10th amendment.
I'd like to point this out to you:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article
By your own reasoning then Republicans are anti-american because they "wipe their asses" with the 14th Amendment.
And Texas does have a lot of room. If I thought they were serious about withdrawing from the Union, I'd be there in a heartbeat.
You don't have to wait you know, you can go ahead and leave now if it bothers you so much.

Aw, Skall. :fluffle:

I think you're pretty good looking anyway.

Thanx, :$ :fluffle:


As a side note, does anyone know if Mississippi has done this? Ive tried looking and I seem to get conflicting information...needless to say, I hope it hasnt...

And Texas does have a lot of room. If I thought they were serious about withdrawing from the Union, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

After being told by a neocon, and I quote somewhat loosely, the following right-wing talking point: "If you don't like America, don't ever come here (or "leave", but I wasn't in the US at the time)." - and a few years later going to New York (splendid city!), but I digress - trust me, it's with no small amount of pleasure that I say to you:

If you don't like America, leave.

New York (splendid city!)

Just makes me think of the time we got stuck in New Jersey on our way to Connecticut...Gawd, lol...

The bad parts of New York/New Jersey arent pleasant at all...Bagels were pretty good though, lol...

Thanx, :$ :fluffle:

No problem.

As a side note, does anyone know if Mississippi has done this? Ive tried looking and I seem to get conflicting information...needless to say, I hope it hasnt...

Does anyone actually care about Mississipi? I mean, seriously, if they seceded tomorrow would anyone even notice?

Just makes me think of the time we got stuck in New Jersey on our way to Connecticut...Gawd, lol...

The bad parts of New York/New Jersey arent pleasant at all...Bagels were pretty good though, lol...

The bad parts of anywhere aren't at all pleasant. NYC is a damn fine city, though.

The bad parts of anywhere aren't at all pleasant. NYC is a damn fine city, though.

I agree.

(And that bursts my quota of agreeing with you for the year) :p

The bad parts of anywhere aren't at all pleasant. NYC is a damn fine city, though.

bleah...
There's worse, but still, just bleah

Does anyone actually care about Mississipi? I mean, seriously, if they seceded tomorrow would anyone even notice?
Well, we do do alot of the Shipbuilding and alot of the Airforce Training, other than that though, probably not, I was just wondering if Haley Barbour did something else stupid, he did great after Katrina, but first he rejects the Stimulus money, making congress have to bypass him, and it would just seem typical at this point for him to join in with the other Republican governors and pull this move...

I had heard on MSNBC that there were 30 states doing similar moves, and I couldnt find out if MS was one of them...

The bad parts of anywhere aren't at all pleasant. NYC is a damn fine city, though.

True, but I intensely disliked downtown NYC, we were lost, and the McDonalds wouldnt even give us its address, the manager wouldnt give us the address, lol...

I think its the Flannel shirt I had on that I borrowed from my dad cause it was cold as hell...

True, but I intensely disliked downtown NYC, we were lost, and the McDonalds wouldnt even give us its address, the manager wouldnt give us the address, lol...

You went all the way to New York just to go to McDonald's? What kind of freak are you? :p

1- It is why I say this is about Hillary.
Ard asked us to play nice and I am doing my level best to do so, but you keep making comments such as the above that have nothing to do with this thread. This is not about Hillary....it is about Rick Perry.

2- And this comes from a poster who calls me on things when he thinks I erred, quite a bit.
I am only "calling" you about comments that you have made in this thread ONLY, and your unwillingness to back up such the following statements:

Oh, goodie, so Perry's not only anti-American, but he's also an anti-American passive-aggressive pansy.

This isn't about Texas. If this idiot were the governor of Mississipi, Idaho or Alaska my reaction would be the same: Republicans spent the last 8 years calling us anti-American, and now a governor of their party is calling for secession.

Really, if you want to pull this kind of crap, you might want to do it in a thread that isn't about a Republican calling for secession.
So I will re-iterate my point:

You still have not provided any proof that Rick Perry is "calling for secession". Your argument is bogus.
You also have not provided any proof that Rick Perry is anti-American.

So, CH, will you cut that shit out or will we take this to the mods again?
So rather than provide your proof about statements that you made in this thread, you want threaten mods as weapons?

I am only "calling" you about comments that you have made in this thread ONLY, and your unwillingness to back up such the following statements:

I meant Sdaeriji.

*sigh*

Oh, how I love my idiot lawmakers. *goes to see who actually voted for it*

Don't worry, you're not alone here. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm quite ashamed for our state and am glad that I did not vote for any of the individuals who voted for this bill.

I've got nothing against Texans, I just think the USA would be better if Texas (as a collective state) would either secede or shut the fuck up about it. Either one. Just pick.
This.^^

Also this:

*Sigh* One can only dream...

I mean, let's face it, we're going through a rough patch economically right now. I know it's mean and unworthy of me to think it, but...all that money being poured into these would-be secessionist states...I mean it's a really lot of money. We could totally use that for stuff. Since, you know, they don't like us or anything. They could secede, and we could build some new schools. Everybody wins!
Seriously, this coy little game of "If you keep displeasing us, we'll punish you by not being your friend anymore and not taking your money" has got to stop already. Dealing with the national government is such a fucking hassle? Then don't. Secede already. Taking federal funds is such fucking tyranny? Well, fuck, we don't want to be tyrants. We shouldn't force something on them that they don't want.

If being Americans is so horrible for them, then "I say it again and again -- if it will have this affect upon you, then you must not do it." (quote = G&S, Iolanthe, character 1 talking about character 2's professed inability to carry on with life.)


But liberals are anti-American. They prove it every day by wiping their butts with the 10th amendment.

And Texas does have a lot of room. If I thought they were serious about withdrawing from the Union, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Well that seals it. I'm founding the Give Texas Freedom Organization.
I'll donate! So long, Myrmi. Write when you get work.

Frankly, I am quite disturbed by all these Leftists calling for the dissolution of our country because of some made up prejudices against Texas and so.
Another one trolling instead of honestly addressing issues. You've got a lot of goddamned gall trying to fob this off on your dreamed-up "leftists" when it is so obvious this whole secession issue is nothing but a Republican temper tantrum. I'm talking about in the real world, not TAI's Fantasy Island.

But hey, at least you're all being consistent. When something as stupid as this comes up, it's good to be able to see clearly who has the capacity to intelligently discuss differences and who doesn't.

1) Gov. Perry is trolling because rather than raise serious issues (if he has any) about any actual negative effects on his state from federal control over stimulus funds, he is instead stoking the fires of ignorance for what he hopes will be short-term political gain to himself, and fuck what effect that will have on his precious state. He makes a big noise of ramping up hostility and outrage and pitting one citizen against another, and he claims it's all for the good of Texas, but in fact, he is sacrificing Texas's interests for his own benefit and aggrandizement. Saying/doing outrageous things just to whip up flames = troll.

Then we turn to the people discussing this and what do we see? *looks around the computer*

2) We have Myrmi trolling to lob cheapshot attacks against liberals and jumping on the "anti-American" bandwagon for no purpose but to use this issue to insult people -- and he can't even manage to stay on topic when he does it. Adding nothing to a topic but personal insults against other people = troll.

3) We have G&D playing tabletop war games in his head in which he and Texas pwn the world by waving their magic peckers at everyone, and the whole world falls down before the RAWR! of almighty Texas. Now, if he had wanted just to make a point about how unrealistic these calls for secession in real life are, that would have been interesting and amusing, but no, he keeps it up for pages and pages. If he really, seriously think Texas can do all he claims, then let him just join a secessionist group and make it happen already. Hijacking the thread in order to kill the topic = troll.

4) And finally we have you, TAI, whose only approach to the argument is to twist it and misrepresent the parties to it and engage in total intellectual dishonesty with regards to it, by trying to claim that the party who are arguing against secession are the ones who are calling for secession. Well, I'm sorry, this isn't Wonderland, and you aren't the Queen of Hearts. What you did there is called a blatant lie, and it is a typical tactic of people like Gov. Perry, and nobody is fooled by it. Even the people who will agree with you are not fooled by it -- they are just lying, too. Blatant misrepresentation of the issue and the parties, attempting to force people to defend positions they never held in the first place, adding nothing to the discussion except that attempt to twist it into something else, and otherwise generally being a twat about debating = troll.

And here is what I think we can all learn from this:

Calls for secession by Republicans are bullshit. The Republicans are real-life trolling when they do this. That makes this a troll-issue. In the forum, it is therefore a troll-topic. This is evidenced by the amount of trolling going on it. From this we can conclude that the so-called secessionists can shut up or be put on real-life "ignore."

Seriously, this coy little game of "If you keep displeasing us, we'll punish you by not being your friend anymore and not taking your money" has got to stop already. Dealing with the national government is such a fucking hassle? Then don't. Secede already. Taking federal funds is such fucking tyranny? Well, fuck, we don't want to be tyrants. We shouldn't force something on them that they don't want.

You know, I heard the other day this suggestion about how to solve the debt problem by selling off Florida to China. Think the Chinese could be persuaded to buy Texas?

To be fair, while consies get all bitchy about a 'liberal' getting into office and threaten secession, liberals will get all bitchy and threaten to move to Canada. Case in point: politics makes people bitchy.
Of course, as has already been pointed out, the liberals threatening to move to Canada did not threaten to take a whole state with them. Do you not understand the difference between secession and emmigration?

Do people really not understand the difference between, "If I can't have the country the way I want, I'll leave," and "If I can't have the country the way I want, I'll destroy the country"?

Texas is pretty important economically to the US.
Oil, lots of the computer industry is based here.
Tax donor state.
Of the big states Texas is the least affected by the current economic crisis.
Re the bolded part: Chris Matthews re-did the math for us two nights ago, and it turns out that my earlier remarks on this have to be corrected:

I said that Texas gets back over 80 cents of every federal tax dollar it sends to DC. In fact, Texas gets back at least 90 cents of every dollar it pays in federal taxes.

I said that one of the northern states gets back the least, at less than 50 cents/dollar. I was wrong. In fact, New Jersey gets back the least, at 61 cents/dollar.

Yeah, donor state, huh? Not compared to New Jersey, those cheap Texas pikers. Let them stick a crowbar in their state wallet and pony up some donations -- then they can claim to be a "donor state."

Two nights ago (I didn't watch the news yesterday) Texas officials further claimed that Texas is more prosperous because they don't tax the shit out of their residents the way states like, oh, say, New Jersey -- as well as New York and California.

All the states that have high state taxes, like New York, California, New Jersey, etc., ALL pay much higher taxes to the federal government and get back less for it than Texas does. So yeah, Texas can afford not to tax its residents because they can rely on suckling off the federal teat -- the same one they've decided to start biting.

So, you know what, I encourage Gov. Perry to turn down the stimulus funds as he has threatened to do. I encourage him to disengage from the federal government as much as possible and stop taking funding that comes with such oppressive strings attached. And then we'll see what that does to property and business taxes in the Great State of Texas.

Just makes me think of the time we got stuck in New Jersey on our way to Connecticut...Gawd, lol...

The bad parts of New York/New Jersey arent pleasant at all...Bagels were pretty good though, lol...
The bad parts of any place are not pleasant. That's why they are called the bad parts.

You know, I heard the other day this suggestion about how to solve the debt problem by selling off Florida to China. Think the Chinese could be persuaded to buy Texas?
Not if they see it first. ;)

Not if they see it first. ;)

But just think of it.

Obama: To the proud citizens of Texas, due to your constant whines of secessionist tendencies from you, the United States government has granted your deepest wish by setting you free from the United States of America. Incidentally, we sold Texas to China five minutes ago. Congratulations. You're all commies now.

Imagine the mass head asplodey-ness.

But just think of it.

Obama: To the proud citizens of Texas, due to your constant whines of secessionist tendencies from you, the United States government has granted your deepest wish by setting you free from the United States of America. Incidentally, we sold Texas to China five minutes ago. Congratulations. You're all commies now.

Imagine the mass head asplodey-ness.
lol

thought reform for everyone!

Incidentally, we sold Texas to China five minutes ago.

How much do you think Texas is worth? Also, can we keep the oil parts?

It would be fun, wouldn't it?

Or if you're like me, you'd just do what landlords do when they sell an apartment building to another landlord -- send a letter to all the residents something like this:

Dear Resident of Texas:

This is to inform you that sovereignty over the property located at Texas, North America, has been transferred to the People's Republic of China effective as of this date. Please forward all tax payments to the new landlord at <address>.

Yours truly,
USA

All it would mean is that they would have to direct their secessionist demonstrations against a different target. Shouldn't be much of an inconvenience, should it?

<.<
>.>

What?

And yet groups like The Republic of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas_(group)) are generally ignored or even arrested for their conduct. Don't you love irony and hypocrisy?

How much do you think Texas is worth? Also, can we keep the oil parts?

What oil would that be?

The bad parts of any place are not pleasant. That's why they are called the bad parts.

True, but compared to the bad parts Im used to...we just dont hold a candle, lol...

At least I know how to leave New Orleans, :p

Another one trolling instead of honestly addressing issues. You've got a lot of goddamned gall trying to fob this off on your dreamed-up "leftists" when it is so obvious this whole secession issue is nothing but a Republican temper tantrum. I'm talking about in the real world, not TAI's Fantasy Island.

But hey, at least you're all being consistent. When something as stupid as this comes up, it's good to be able to see clearly who has the capacity to intelligently discuss differences and who doesn't.

1) Gov. Perry is trolling because rather than raise serious issues (if he has any) about any actual negative effects on his state from federal control over stimulus funds, he is instead stoking the fires of ignorance for what he hopes will be short-term political gain to himself, and fuck what effect that will have on his precious state. He makes a big noise of ramping up hostility and outrage and pitting one citizen against another, and he claims it's all for the good of Texas, but in fact, he is sacrificing Texas's interests for his own benefit and aggrandizement. Saying/doing outrageous things just to whip up flames = troll.

Then we turn to the people discussing this and what do we see? *looks around the computer*

2) We have Myrmi trolling to lob cheapshot attacks against liberals and jumping on the "anti-American" bandwagon for no purpose but to use this issue to insult people -- and he can't even manage to stay on topic when he does it. Adding nothing to a topic but personal insults against other people = troll.

3) We have G&D playing tabletop war games in his head in which he and Texas pwn the world by waving their magic peckers at everyone, and the whole world falls down before the RAWR! of almighty Texas. Now, if he had wanted just to make a point about how unrealistic these calls for secession in real life are, that would have been interesting and amusing, but no, he keeps it up for pages and pages. If he really, seriously think Texas can do all he claims, then let him just join a secessionist group and make it happen already. Hijacking the thread in order to kill the topic = troll.

4) And finally we have you, TAI, whose only approach to the argument is to twist it and misrepresent the parties to it and engage in total intellectual dishonesty with regards to it, by trying to claim that the party who are arguing against secession are the ones who are calling for secession. Well, I'm sorry, this isn't Wonderland, and you aren't the Queen of Hearts. What you did there is called a blatant lie, and it is a typical tactic of people like Gov. Perry, and nobody is fooled by it. Even the people who will agree with you are not fooled by it -- they are just lying, too. Blatant misrepresentation of the issue and the parties, attempting to force people to defend positions they never held in the first place, adding nothing to the discussion except that attempt to twist it into something else, and otherwise generally being a twat about debating = troll.

And here is what I think we can all learn from this:

Calls for secession by Republicans are bullshit. The Republicans are real-life trolling when they do this. That makes this a troll-issue. In the forum, it is therefore a troll-topic. This is evidenced by the amount of trolling going on it. From this we can conclude that the so-called secessionists can shut up or be put on real-life "ignore."

Game, set, and motherfucking MATCH.

I agree.

(And that bursts my quota of agreeing with you for the year) :p
Oh really? Let's see about that.

A secesionist (Democrat or Republican) is anti-American. Agree or disagree?
Game, set, and motherfucking MATCH.
How so? He didn't actually refute anything I've said in this thread? ? ? He just wrote a long post.
Another one trolling instead of honestly addressing issues. You've got a lot of goddamned gall trying to fob this off on your dreamed-up "leftists" when it is so obvious this whole secession issue is nothing but a Republican temper tantrum. I'm talking about in the real world, not TAI's Fantasy Island.

But hey, at least you're all being consistent. When something as stupid as this comes up, it's good to be able to see clearly who has the capacity to intelligently discuss differences and who doesn't.

1) Gov. Perry is trolling because rather than raise serious issues (if he has any) about any actual negative effects on his state from federal control over stimulus funds, he is instead stoking the fires of ignorance for what he hopes will be short-term political gain to himself, and fuck what effect that will have on his precious state. He makes a big noise of ramping up hostility and outrage and pitting one citizen against another, and he claims it's all for the good of Texas, but in fact, he is sacrificing Texas's interests for his own benefit and aggrandizement. Saying/doing outrageous things just to whip up flames = troll.

Then we turn to the people discussing this and what do we see? *looks around the computer*

2) We have Myrmi trolling to lob cheapshot attacks against liberals and jumping on the "anti-American" bandwagon for no purpose but to use this issue to insult people -- and he can't even manage to stay on topic when he does it. Adding nothing to a topic but personal insults against other people = troll.

3) We have G&D playing tabletop war games in his head in which he and Texas pwn the world by waving their magic peckers at everyone, and the whole world falls down before the RAWR! of almighty Texas. Now, if he had wanted just to make a point about how unrealistic these calls for secession in real life are, that would have been interesting and amusing, but no, he keeps it up for pages and pages. If he really, seriously think Texas can do all he claims, then let him just join a secessionist group and make it happen already. Hijacking the thread in order to kill the topic = troll.

4) And finally we have you, TAI, whose only approach to the argument is to twist it and misrepresent the parties to it and engage in total intellectual dishonesty with regards to it, by trying to claim that the party who are arguing against secession are the ones who are calling for secession. Well, I'm sorry, this isn't Wonderland, and you aren't the Queen of Hearts. What you did there is called a blatant lie, and it is a typical tactic of people like Gov. Perry, and nobody is fooled by it. Even the people who will agree with you are not fooled by it -- they are just lying, too. Blatant misrepresentation of the issue and the parties, attempting to force people to defend positions they never held in the first place, adding nothing to the discussion except that attempt to twist it into something else, and otherwise generally being a twat about debating = troll.

And here is what I think we can all learn from this:

Calls for secession by Republicans are bullshit. The Republicans are real-life trolling when they do this. That makes this a troll-issue. In the forum, it is therefore a troll-topic. This is evidenced by the amount of trolling going on it. From this we can conclude that the so-called secessionists can shut up or be put on real-life "ignore."

You make me sound so deliciously evil. :D

Ah, anyway, fun times over. Now let's hop back to reality by showing you my original post in this thread . . . and you can tell me exactly what you have a problem with. It's alot easier for you to just rant than to actually refute my actual words. Also understand that this post was in context to the post from others in this thread.
Ok, ok, ok. Everyone relax. There are a few problems I've seen reading through this thread.


1. Texas is not going to secede. They shouldn't, they won't and the American government wouldn't let them. And they don't really want to. They have alot to gain by being in America. Texas is not some backwater place. They have 3 to 4 major cities like Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Austin that are highly interconnected into the American economy. Also Texas has alot of oil and other resources that America uses and military bases. It's unrealistic to think Texas will or even really wants to secede.

2. That said, there are obviously some certain individuals who may want to secede and they are nothing more than anti-American domestic terrorists, working for the dissolution of our great nation. That is a serious offense.

3. None of this makes the left wing talk during the Bush years of "He's not my President, he's your President!" and "let's secede from Jesusland" any better. Two wrongs do not make a right. Those people are just as anti-American as the individuals calling for the South (or Texas) to secede.

4. Those (looking at you Heikoku :p) who call the Southern states backwards or "hellholes" are seriously misinformed. Texas is quite an industrialzied center of production, commerce and education. As are Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas or Virginia for example. Also, many companies have moved re-located to the Southern states in favor of the more lax taxes down South. Parts of the South may have problems (looking at you Louisiana) but the South is far from a "hellhole that wishes to secede" and certainly overall is vastly happy staying in the union . . . and I'd ask you nicely Heikoku to relax with misinformed statements like these:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14707670&postcount=22

Edit: And I in no way consider myself a Southerner, by the way.

Edit 2: Showing the Confederate Flag does not make you un-American. It is a normal way in which many people show off their Southern culture or heritage. I've even known hispanic kids from Alabama who have a confederate flag on their truck. That said, I would never represent the confederate flag because I'm not Southern, so the whole issue is a non-issue to me.

Ah, anyway, fun times over. Now let's hop back to reality by showing you my original post in this thread . . . and you can tell me exactly what you have a problem with. It's alot easier for you to just rant than to actually refute my actual words. Also understand that this post was in context to the post from others in this thread.
I have already told you precisely what I have a problem with. Do you expect me to just forget all about it because you would like to focus attention elsewhere? You grossly, ridiculously misrepresented the arguments of other posters in this thread and attempted to insult them in the process. If you expect me to have enough respect for you to address your points -- when you have not shown the courtesy of even being honest about what other people have said -- then do something that is worthy of respect. Admit that the statement I complained about was BS and retract it.

Restore some honesty to what you have to say, and I'll listen to it.

Or keep up your attitude and I'll be content to dismiss your earlier remarks as the rantings of a liar.

It's your call.

Only 80¢ back on the federal tax dollar? Threats of secession? Speaking as a Canadian, this seems very familiar.

I said this once and I'll say it again: You folks should have let the South secede.

I love this comment.

Living in New England, I must have heard it once every hour when George Bush was president, and it always made me smile. I always find it interesting that the self-purported champions of openness, the ones who claim to be the bulwark against stereotyping and close-mindedness can be so ridiculously narrow-minded. Have you ever even been to the South? And for that matter, who cares if they have their own opinions? Have we reached the point where we cast off anyone who doesn't conform to your ideas?

I love this comment.

Living in New England, I must have heard it once every hour when George Bush was president, and it always made me smile. I always find it interesting that the self-purported champions of openness, the ones who claim to be the bulwark against stereotyping and close-mindedness can be so ridiculously narrow-minded. Have you ever even been to the South? And for that matter, who cares if they have their own opinions? Have we reached the point where we cast off anyone who doesn't conform to your ideas?

Psh, thats just crazy talk, everyone knows we're just a bunch of hellions ready to fuck over the union!

Psh, thats just crazy talk, everyone knows we're just a bunch of hellions ready to fuck over the union!

Especially funny when you consider that Heikoku isn't even an American.

The south is fucking awesome. Have you guys ever been to the north? They need to learn how to drive! Especially those people from Pennsylvania. I don't have any friends in Pennsylvania - I am not friends with people who can't tell left from right and go 50 down 95.

I love this comment.

Living in New England, I must have heard it once every hour when George Bush was president, and it always made me smile. I always find it interesting that the self-purported champions of openness, the ones who claim to be the bulwark against stereotyping and close-mindedness can be so ridiculously narrow-minded. Have you ever even been to the South? And for that matter, who cares if they have their own opinions? Have we reached the point where we cast off anyone who doesn't conform to your ideas?

Especially funny when you consider that Heikoku isn't even an American.

The south is fucking awesome. Have you guys ever been to the north? They need to learn how to drive! Especially those people from Pennsylvania. I don't have any friends in Pennsylvania - I am not friends with people who can't tell left from right and go 50 down 95.
Yeah, how dare we liberals and/or yankees engage in gross generalizations that aren't even close to reality about people we clearly know nothing about, or make up fictitious anecdotes about shit that didn't really happen. We sure have our nerve. :rolleyes:

Yeah, how dare we Yankees engage in gross generalizations that aren't even close to reality about people we clearly know nothing about. We sure have our nerve. :rolleyes:

I know right. You guys need to wise up a little. Maybe start putting sugar in your tea - that seems to help.

I know right. You guys need to wise up a little. Maybe start putting sugar in your tea - that seems to help.
Tea is a traitor's drink. Haven't you been watching the news lately?

Tea is a traitor's drink. Haven't you been watching the news lately?

From what I read in my nonpartisan newspaper (the Richmond Times-Dispatch) despite poor weather, the tea party in my town was a smashing success. In fact, after seeing the resolve of a few hundred Richmonders, Obama is deciding to retroactively declare the Confederate States of America recognized, because, and I quote, "I don't wanna deal with those BAMFs. C'mon, let's go play with Bo instead!"

Yeah, how dare we liberals and/or yankees engage in gross generalizations that aren't even close to reality about people we clearly know nothing about, or make up fictitious anecdotes about shit that didn't really happen. We sure have our nerve. :rolleyes:

I'm actually both a liberal and a yankee. It's just crazy that in their quest to rid the world of conservative oppression, some people stoop to such hypocrisy. Not that Heikoku really meant all that I'm saying either -- this is just my general overreaction rant :D

From what I read in my nonpartisan newspaper (the Richmond Times-Dispatch) despite poor weather, the tea party in my town was a smashing success. In fact, after seeing the resolve of a few hundred Richmonders, Obama is deciding to retroactively declare the Confederate States of America recognized, because, and I quote, "I don't wanna deal with those BAMFs. C'mon, let's go play with Bo instead!"
What the hell are you talking about? Nothing in that post made any sense. How does playing with the dog = retroactively declaring the CSA recognized?

Also, you apparently don't understand the tea = traitor reference. See, after the REAL Tea Party, the one in Boston (which is in a blue, pro-Obama state, btw), the drinking of tea became politicized as a pro-Britain thing to do. During and after the Revolution, it was considered unpatriotic to drink tea. That's why coffee became so overwhelmingly popular in this country. After the Revolution, a lot of American trendsetters went anti-tea along with everything else British. Tea belonged to the defeated oppressor.

So you can put all the sugar in your tea you like. Better people drink coffee. :p :D

I'm actually both a liberal and a yankee. It's just crazy that in their quest to rid the world of conservative oppression, some people stoop to such hypocrisy. Not that Heikoku really meant all that I'm saying either -- this is just my general overreaction rant :D
Oh, I see, you only meant SOME people. Which is why you painted with such broad generalizing strokes in your first comment. Because a dig at a few is worth more when it hurts many?

What the hell are you talking about? Nothing in that post made any sense. How does playing with the dog = retroactively declaring the CSA recognized?

He's trying to make a funny. He's not succeeding.

He's trying to make a funny. He's not succeeding.
No, he isn't, is he? ;)

I have already told you precisely what I have a problem with. Do you expect me to just forget all about it because you would like to focus attention elsewhere? You grossly, ridiculously misrepresented the arguments of other posters in this thread and attempted to insult them in the process. If you expect me to have enough respect for you to address your points -- when you have not shown the courtesy of even being honest about what other people have said -- then do something that is worthy of respect. Admit that the statement I complained about was BS and retract it.

Restore some honesty to what you have to say, and I'll listen to it.

Or keep up your attitude and I'll be content to dismiss your earlier remarks as the rantings of a liar.

It's your call.

I really don't know what you're taking problem with. I was opposing the people in this thread who talk about giving away Texas or the South or that they'd love to see those regions go, and also opposing those people in real life who are secesionist themselves. I dislike both sides, because they push disunity.

I really don't know what you're taking problem with. I was opposing the people in this thread who talk about giving away Texas or the South or that they'd love to see those regions go, and also opposing those people in real life who are secesionist themselves. I dislike both sides, because they push disunity.
Again, and for the last time, I told you specifically what I had a problem with. I even quoted the most offensive word in the offending post. And I explained specifically why I had a problem with it.

I will take your comment above as an indicator that you are not going to retract the offending comment, nor admit that it was a lie. On the contrary, you seem inclined to expand your intellectual dishonesty by now pretending (a) that I have not told you things that are in the thread for all to see and/or (b) pretending that you are dumb, which you are not. On this basis, I will now dismiss your posts as the comments of a deliberate liar.

Thanks for making that easy. 'Bye.

Again, and for the last time, I told you specifically what I had a problem with. I even quoted the most offensive word in the offending post. And I explained specifically why I had a problem with it.

I will take your comment above as an indicator that you are not going to retract the offending comment, nor admit that it was a lie. On the contrary, you seem inclined to expand your intellectual dishonesty by now pretending (a) that I have not told you things that are in the thread for all to see and/or (b) pretending that you are dumb, which you are not. On this basis, I will now dismiss your posts as the comments of a deliberate liar.

Thanks for making that easy. 'Bye.
You're mad that I used the word leftists? There were more than few people of a leftist political orientation in this thread wishing openly for the dissolution of our current country by giving away Texas and/or the south . . . I disliked that but that doesn't mean I also don't dislike those on the right who are pro-secession . . . you just didn't see that, perhaps?, because you only chose to reply to one post out of my many in this thread and in that post in particular I was only focussing on those on one side of the issue.

The fact remains that I am not lying about anything. The Governor was not advocating secession, but were he to, I'd oppose it and call it anti-American like I do currently to those calling themselves secessionists or those calling for states or a region of the country to secede, just because they are deemed 'backwards' or 'hellholes'. . .

So I am not stupid, not lying and actually, quite balanced in my view on this issue, opposing people on both sides of the political spectrum who call for disunity.

You're mad that I used the word leftists? There were more than few people of a leftist political orientation in this thread wishing openly for the dissolution of our current country by giving away Texas and/or the south . . . I disliked that but that doesn't mean I also don't dislike those on the right who are pro-secession . . . you just didn't see that, perhaps?, because you only chose to reply to one post out of my many in this thread and in that post in particular I was only focussing on those on one side of the issue.

The fact remains that I am not lying about anything. The Governor was not advocating secession, but were he to, I'd oppose it and call it anti-American like I do currently to those calling themselves secessionists or those calling for states or a region of the country to secede, just because they are deemed 'backwards' or 'hellholes'. . .

So I am not stupid, not lying and actually, quite balanced in my view on this issue, opposing people on both sides of the political spectrum who call for disunity.
So you say. Of course, one would not expect you to say anything else about yourself.

So you say. Of course, one would not expect you to say anything else about yourself.
In all honesty, nothing I have said above is a lie, and I really don't understand what it is exactly that you disbeleive.

In all honesty, nothing I have said above is a lie, and I really don't understand what it is exactly that you disbeleive.
Yes, I got that the first two times you said it. I wonder how many times I have to tell you that I have already answered your question before you get that.

But if your goal now is to make this argument be about whatever negative aspect of me you might feel like harping on, I would just remind you that this thread is not about either you or me. I have stated my opinion and the causes and reasons for it. Your responses have matched up with that in a way that makes it impossible for me to engage you in discussion. I am not interested in dancing around the issue of "What M thinks about TAI" any more. I'm sure no one else is interested in it, either.

I am not interested in dancing around the issue of "What M thinks about TAI" any more. I'm sure no one else is interested in it, either.

Well, I am, but it's bad form to threadjack my own thread. :p

Well, I am, but it's bad form to threadjack my own thread. :p
Well, if you want to see more, then I'm definitely not going to do it. :p

Well, if you want to see more, then I'm definitely not going to do it. :p

I really need to work on my reverse psychology skills...

Better people drink coffee. :p :D
Coffee is my drink of choice now, but I was raised on tea. After all, my Mom was born and raised in England. A nice cuppa char is good now and then. :D

Arguably, tea is a healthier choice than coffee.

Since making that post I've been trawling the internet to get information. I haven't found anything relevant for the last year or so. Earlier this decade there was a campaign (with lots of sources) by NSW, Vic And WA (as the richer states) to end the subsidising of Qld, SA and Tas.

The poster was correct in that WA has been subsidising other states, but quite wrong when they named NSW and Vic as beneficiaries.

But Western Australians tend to get a bit strange when it comes to the eastern states.

True, true.

I agree.

(And that bursts my quota of agreeing with you for the year) :p

Is the sky falling on our heads?

Next we will soon be seeing an agreement on Chile:p

(To soon?)

I am of the belief that any form of succession is treason. Texas will not secede and if it does will be reannexed in a matter of days or weeks.

I am of the belief that any form of succession is treason. Texas will not secede and if it does will be reannexed in a matter of days or weeks.

Secession, and says who?

I am of the belief that any form of succession is treason.

considering that treason is frequently a good thing, that doesn't really amount to much

Secession, and says who?
Zombie Lincoln.

Secession, and says who?

Says me. Texas will never secede, because despite the political grandstanding of their governor, trying to win some votes among the teabaggin' crowd, no one in Texas actually wants to not be an American.

I love this comment.

Living in New England, I must have heard it once every hour when George Bush was president, and it always made me smile. I always find it interesting that the self-purported champions of openness, the ones who claim to be the bulwark against stereotyping and close-mindedness can be so ridiculously narrow-minded. Have you ever even been to the South? And for that matter, who cares if they have their own opinions? Have we reached the point where we cast off anyone who doesn't conform to your ideas?
While I, personally, am glad the Union won the Civil War, and while I, personally, would just as soon keep the Union intact to this day, I find comments like Leistung's totally ridiculous.

I mean, you're literally saying that letting people leave when they feel that the ideological conflicts are too great to overcome is "narrow-minded," but forcing them to stay by slaughtering tens of thousands of them is, what, "open-minded"?

Let's not lie to ourselves about this. The Southern states wanted to retain the right to own fellow human beings. They wanted so badly to hold onto this right that they were willing to kill and die for it in unspeakable numbers. When, about a hundred years later, the federal government forced the South to integrate schools and ditch the Jim Crow bullshit, they howled about secession again. And now that a black man is president they're howling as expected. Although this time they're at least smart enough to try to cover their overt racism with some (sadly transparent) lies about how it's really about taxes...that were higher under Bush, or government expansion...that actually occurred under Bush, or DHS reports...that were actually commissioned by Bush, or wasteful spending...that occurred under Bush in numbers that the world had never seen before.

Having been to a teabagger party and spoken to the teabaggers personally, there is no doubt in my mind that racism is (as usual) the fundamental driving force behind the secessionist howling. It would not be "open-minded" for us to entertain that kind of pathetic bigotry, it would just be stupid, like pretending that your four-year-old's temper tantrum at being told to pick up a toy constitutes a meaningful discussion on the allocation of manual labor assignments in your household.

<snip>..., like pretending that your four-year-old's temper tantrum at being told to pick up a toy constitutes a meaningful discussion on the allocation of manual labor assignments in your household.
At the risk of doing just a +1 post (which I try to keep to a minimum), I have to give you snaps for the above. Nice analogy! :D

Also, +1 agreement to the rest of what you said. The pattern is there. No point pretending a stinkweed is a petunia, especially when it's the same damn stinkweed that's been coming up over and over again.