NationStates Jolt Archive

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts. We are social creatures, so we need to feel that we fit in with the group. Some of us require more validation in that than others, perhaps because we feel deficient or because we are not satisfied with the amounts we get. Or something. It's really just an idea.

Because they're insecure.

Why do you need to draw attention to yourself so much?

Ha, Ikkaku is an attention seeker, aright.

Because my ego is enormous!

But honestly, do I really seek a lot of attention?

I don't see this ending well.

I've dated a few girls who needed constant reinforcement, and they were very social people, more so than anybody else I knew at the time, so your theory might hold (a little, anecdotal) water. I do have to say, it does gets old after a while, though.

I'm just waiting for nat to find this.

Because my ego is enormous!

But honestly, do I really seek a lot of attention?

Yep, all the time, you're a right regular egomaniac.

Yep, all the time, you're a right regular egomaniac.

But like Murv pointed out, I am so egocentric that I only care about my own opinion.

Why do people insist on asking meaningless questions?

Are you calling Nanastu a troll? :confused:

Also, I like attention because I'm vain and I think that people don't pay enough attention to me.

Heikoku

I wouldn't call Heikoku an attention whore.

But like Murv pointed out, I am so egocentric that I only care about my own opinion.

Very true. So you ya wouldn't care if I (or anyone) thought you were a prick?

I fail to see how starting a thread in which you 'posit' a model of human behaviour without any evidence or reference to concepts is any less attention-seeking than those you nominally deplore.

So, perhaps the easy way to answer the question would be to ask you, OP, who you need our validation?

Are you calling Nanastu a troll? :confused:


Nope. Just listing examples.

Nope. Just listing examples.

Of...?

I fail to see how starting a thread in which you 'posit' a model of human behaviour without any evidence or reference to concepts is any less attention-seeking than those you nominally deplore.

So, perhaps the easy way to answer the question would be to ask you, OP, who you need our validation?

I don't know. That's why I'm putting the subject out for discussion, so perhaps we can all come to a conclusion we can agree on.

Philosophizing and all that. That's what NSG is good for, right?

Philosophizing and all that. That's what NSG is good for, right?

I thought this was where we argued pointlessly without listening to the other side, only to repeat the same thing over and over again. Did I miss a memo?

Of...?

Attention-seekers. Which, incidentally, is not a term I am applying for good or for ill, but just pointing it out.

But like Murv pointed out, I am so egocentric that I only care about my own opinion.

I think that describes far and away the vast majority of people in general.

Attention-seekers. Which, incidentally, is not a term I am applying for good or for ill, but just pointing it out.

It's normally the latter.

Meh...I'm the opposite. I'll go out my way to avoid any attention whatsoever. Lots of people in my seminars go through the whole year without realizing I'm even in their class, despite a 100% attendance record. Instant forgettableness for the win!

Because it makes life easier.

Seriously.

I would consider myself a pretty self-secure (whatever the opposite of insecure is) person. Obviously there are things I'm self-conscious about, but they are the exception and not the rule.

Even so, it is really nice to be complimented on something you think is important or that you pride yourself on. I don't mean as in "oh, you did a great job acting in that play" so much as in "hey... it was really nice of you to stick up for me to that guy."

I don't -need- to be complimented to be happy. But boy, it sure does help; it usually brightens my next 2-3 days if it's something important to me.

Very true. So you ya wouldn't care if I (or anyone) thought you were a prick?

No.

But like Murv pointed out, I am so egocentric that I only care about my own opinion.

I like this sentence. Deliberate?

I think that describes far and away the vast majority of people in General.

Fixed.

I like this sentence. Deliberate?

Yes, partially.

Why do people insist on asking meaningless questions?

I agree Hydesland.

No.

Really?

Really?

Yes, that is why I often go to an appropriate forum (check your telegrams).

Meh...I'm the opposite. I'll go out my way to avoid any attention whatsoever. Lots of people in my seminars go through the whole year without realizing I'm even in their class, despite a 100% attendance record. Instant forgettableness for the win!

You might make a good spy.

Yes, that is why I often go to an appropriate forum (check your telegrams).

What forum's this?

What forum's this?

Check your telegrams.

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts. We are social creatures, so we need to feel that we fit in with the group. Some of us require more validation in that than others, perhaps because we feel deficient or because we are not satisfied with the amounts we get. Or something. It's really just an idea.

Because I've got an ego to feed.

I wouldn't call Heikoku an attention whore.

I would. :D

By the way, look at me and I'll let you have your way with me. In the ass. With no lubricant. You hot piece of hunking hot hotness. :fluffle:

Validation is indeed a nuisance.

But otherwise, I keep getting those damned parking tickets.

You might make a good spy.

For someone who borders on the obsessional about avoiding danger or risk of any kind I don't think this a career choice I'd like. Ideally I'd work in archives or in a library. I'm fun like that.

Ego, quite simply.

I fail to see how starting a thread in which you 'posit' a model of human behaviour without any evidence or reference to concepts is any less attention-seeking than those you nominally deplore.

So, perhaps the easy way to answer the question would be to ask you, OP, who you need our validation?

I thought I'd never say something so cliché, but...

Oooh, burned!

I thought this was where we argued pointlessly without listening to the other side, only to repeat the same thing over and over again. Did I miss a memo?

I think these memos must be getting sucked into a void in the space time continuum. Because I didn't get that memo either.

I would. :D

By the way, look at me and I'll let you have your way with me. In the ass. With no lubricant. You hot piece of hunking hot hotness. :fluffle:
STFU :eek:

STFU :eek:

You're next. ;)

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts. We are social creatures, so we need to feel that we fit in with the group. Some of us require more validation in that than others, perhaps because we feel deficient or because we are not satisfied with the amounts we get. Or something. It's really just an idea.

You're theory is absolutely correct, and we all love you very much; now please, leave us all alone. ;)

I thought this was where we argued pointlessly without listening to the other side, only to repeat the same thing over and over again. Did I miss a memo?
No, this is where we make self-deprecating jokes that we find funny because we think they only apply to all of those other people on NSG.

Because, humans are wired to be social animals.

You need to take the internet and this board in particular less seriously.

Why do people insist on asking meaningless questions?

http://www.brokencredit.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/Irony.jpg


Back to the question..... Approval is nice, but I'm way to lazy to make the effort generally. And especially on an internet forum!

/goes back to sleep

I like approval of others, because it reassures me that it might not be just because my strange sleep patterns that are giving me these ideas and opinions.

I like approval of others, because it reassures me that it might not be just because my strange sleep patterns that are giving me these ideas and opinions.

That's just what a narcoleptic would say!

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.


Holy fuck, I like how in the OP you just attack two posters. Im suprised this isnt closed yet.

Hierarchical, social, some more than others, some screaming, some clinging, wanting and needing the pack to want them and need them.

In the wave state of our own internal doubts, oscillating between awful fear and ridiculous aggrandizement, we crave an observer to measure us, collapse us, into a certainty that only some of us know is both truth and lie, dead and alive.

I'm scared. I'm alone. I'm dying. I know you can't help me but in the desperation that makes a burning man run, I flail for your attention. I waste your time and the last of my own drawing breaths.

We draw attention to our "strength" because we feel weak. We talk of our "honor" because we see our stained life. We posture our brilliance when we know we are fools.

It ends the way everything else does.

Because, humans are wired to be social animals.
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You need to take the internet and this board in particular less seriously.✓

(those are tick marks for any poor sod whose browser is too useless to render Unicode.)

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Holy fuck, I like how in the OP you just attack two posters. Im suprised this isnt closed yet.

Nanatsu reported it to Moderation, but seems to have accepted Kyronea's explanation that "troll" appeared in the same sentence as her screen-name by accident. Just poor phrasing.

I wouldn't if it was me. Picking out two posters as examples of something pretty much universal isn't a good idea.

Of course we all want attention. Ideally of the "wow, that's amazingly insightful you should write a book" variety. I'm usually satisfied with "oh, what a load of rubbish!" and when I can't even get that, I make bad jokes until I hear eyeballs popping out from rolling too far.

It's a pretty trivial observation by Kyronea. The only people who don't want attention are lurkers.

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts. We are social creatures, so we need to feel that we fit in with the group. Some of us require more validation in that than others, perhaps because we feel deficient or because we are not satisfied with the amounts we get. Or something. It's really just an idea.

It is human nature. All humans look for validation on their environments. As a matter of fact, most higher intelligence mammals do the same. All social creatures look for validation. You could lay of Nanatsu and H2 while you are at it.

You could lay of Nanatsu and H2 while you are at it.

Me, Hammurab, Jhahhannamanamam, Baldwin for Christ, Ghost of Ayn Rand, and Neo Art With A Goatee all tried to lay of Nanatsu.






It didn't go well.

But like Murv pointed out, I am so egocentric that I only care about my own opinion.

I thought this was where we argued pointlessly without listening to the other side, only to repeat the same thing over and over again. Did I miss a memo?

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(those are tick marks for any poor sod whose browser is too useless to render Unicode.)

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Nanatsu reported it to Moderation, but seems to have accepted Kyronea's explanation that "troll" appeared in the same sentence as her screen-name by accident. Just poor phrasing.

I wouldn't if it was me. Picking out two posters as examples of something pretty much universal isn't a good idea.

Of course we all want attention. Ideally of the "wow, that's amazingly insightful you should write a book" variety. I'm usually satisfied with "oh, what a load of rubbish!" and when I can't even get that, I make bad jokes until I hear eyeballs popping out from rolling too far.

It's a pretty trivial observation by Kyronea. The only people who don't want attention are lurkers.

Eh. I read the OP as this is attention seeking behavior that we do not feel annoyed by (well, in general) and this (trolls) is attention seeking behavior that we do feel annoyed by. They are both permutations of the same behavior, though. Don't really see it as a flame, at all, but people do like to take offense.

There is also a distinct difference between seeking attention for the sake of attention, using it as a form of affirmation, and seeking attention to a point of debate or contention, a form of dialog. Everyone who posts does seek attention, yes. But, and I include myself in this, some of us seek attention so that it can be directed at a train of thought, discussion or a topic that is completely separable from the poster, while some other forms are of necessity seeking attention for the topic and the poster theirself...themself...themselves?...itself?

Are you calling Nanastu a troll? :confused:


I wouldn't call Heikoku an attention whore.

This^^^....

And, I would say Im the total opposite of that, in fact the majority of my posts are just snide remarks in the background anyway, lol...or pic spam, lol

Me, Hammurab, Jhahhannamanamam, Baldwin for Christ, Ghost of Ayn Rand, and Neo Art With A Goatee all tried to lay of Nanatsu.






It didn't go well.

Your implication is what Sarge? I just think there's no reason to include specific posters in this thread. The question if fairly generalized to all human beings.

Neo Art With A Goatee








Did he have to get a new account or something? :confused:

Your implication is what Sarge? I just think there's no reason to include specific posters in this thread. The question if fairly generalized to all human beings.

I'm just saying she's quick with a mace-groinkick-drinktotheface-restrainingorder combo if you try to lay of her too much.




Jus' sayin.

Did he have to get a new account or something? :confused:

Neo Art needs attention more than most, especially for his JD*. Sometimes, he uses it at inappropriate times, and sometimes, the authorities put out warrants for his....containment.





*Jew Dick

I'm just saying she's quick with a mace-groinkick-drinktotheface-restrainingorder combo if you try to lay of her too much.




Jus' sayin.

She's got spunk for sure. Then again I've never had these reactions from her because I am just a darling chap. Anyhow, 1St. Lieutenant me, says goodnight to you Sarge.

She's got spunk for sure. Then again I've never had these reactions from her because I am just a darling chap. Anyhow, 1St. Lieutenant me, says goodnight to you Sarge.

I like Shel Silverstein.

Eh. I read the OP as this is attention seeking behavior that we do not feel annoyed by (well, in general) and this (trolls) is attention seeking behavior that we do feel annoyed by. They are both permutations of the same behavior, though.

Positive regard is more desirable than negative regard. But often negative regard is better than being entirely ignored.

Trolls are people who either can't, or don't trust their ability to, have their real opinions attract positive regard. Perhaps also they don't take dialogue seriously enough, and get pleasure from seeing other people get worked up. As they see it, the poster who rises to the bait is taking dialogue too seriously and looking foolish.

Don't really see it as a flame, at all, but people do like to take offense.

Taking offence is a debating tactic. Not a very good one, but I guess it allows one to jab off a sharp reply in defence, which would look bad without "you did it first."

There is also a distinct difference between seeking attention for the sake of attention, using it as a form of affirmation, and seeking attention to a point of debate or contention, a form of dialog.

It's a question of the quality of the affirmation. The first is only recognition that the poster is there ("I hear ya talking") while the second affirms that they think and know stuff. To most people, that's a more gratifying thing ... that they have a thinking mind not just a talking mouth.

It's a question of the quality of the affirmation. The first is only recognition that the poster is there ("I hear ya talking") while the second affirms that they think and know stuff. To most people, that's a more gratifying thing ... that they have a thinking mind not just a talking mouth.

You are attaching the second to the first. It is entirely possible to affirm the stuff that the poster is thinking and knowing without necessarily affirming the actual poster. This isn't to say that ne'er shall the twain meet, they often do, but it is simply an accidental thing; there is nothing in affirming an interesting and potentially rewarding train of thought that requires explicit, or even implicit, affirmation of the vessel of such.

For example, what we are talking about now. I'd be completely happy if you were to direct all your responses to whatever poster has a response immediately above mine, but so long as this thread of discussion that I find to be interesting is being addressed I am content. This is attention seeking behavior, yes, but the subject is different in that it is not distinctly self-affirming, but rather...hrmm....shall we call it concept affirming? It may or may not be self-affirming to me, but that is beside the point, which is that it affirms the content, itself.

Meh...I'm the opposite. I'll go out my way to avoid any attention whatsoever. Lots of people in my seminars go through the whole year without realizing I'm even in their class, despite a 100% attendance record. Instant forgettableness for the win!

Aren't you a transvestite?

Aren't you a transvestite?

Isn't the PC term now "Gender Challenged"?

It is human nature. All humans look for validation on their environments. As a matter of fact, most higher intelligence mammals do the same. All social creatures look for validation. You could lay of Nanatsu and H2 while you are at it.

You see, the fun part here is HIS post got people paying attention at ME. :D

You see, the fun part here is HIS post got people paying attention at ME. :D

We know you love attention. So is he pimping out you attention whore's? What cut are giving him?

Isn't the PC term now "Gender Challenged"?

that would apply more to transsexuals.

We know you love attention. So is he pimping out you attention whore's? What cut are giving him?

I think he's whoring my attention's pimp. *Nods*

You are attaching the second to the first. It is entirely possible to affirm the stuff that the poster is thinking and knowing without necessarily affirming the actual poster.

That's up to them, I think. They may be pleased that you "got their point" even if you vigorously disagreed. Or they may resent what they find a difficult thought being so easily comprehended.

This isn't to say that ne'er shall the twain meet, they often do, but it is simply an accidental thing; there is nothing in affirming an interesting and potentially rewarding train of thought that requires explicit, or even implicit, affirmation of the vessel of such.

It's a little unclear what you mean by "poster." For me, a poster is something more than a post or a collection of posts, but something less than a living human being. I believe that somewhere in the world, a person sits at a keyboard and types all of the posts with a particular name (oh, except that diabolical machine Jhahannam) but I try to not find out what they look like or the sound of the voice.

I don't like having images and sounds attached to the words of some posters but not others. It sets them apart, gives or subtracts quality from the explicit meaning of their posts. But of course it's hard to avoid, when people put pictures of themselves in their avatars or disclose personal details about their lives. I can't help thinking of soldiers as potentially violent, of teachers as didactic, pot smokers as vague. I would rather follow their thoughts as written in words, without such prejudicial impressions of "who" they are.

Yet a "poster" is something more than just a collection of posts, too. Moods come through, different reactions in different threads. Good days and bad days, of clearer or more confused perception. Days when they'll take a joke in good part or take offence. A context for each post, in the system of thought of that poster ... and that makes some statements seem truer than their explicit meanings, or less true.

For example, what we are talking about now. I'd be completely happy if you were to direct all your responses to whatever poster has a response immediately above mine, but so long as this thread of discussion that I find to be interesting is being addressed I am content. This is attention seeking behavior, yes, but the subject is different in that it is not distinctly self-affirming, but rather...hrmm....shall we call it concept affirming? It may or may not be self-affirming to me, but that is beside the point, which is that it affirms the content, itself.

But are not the thoughts we think part of ourselves? They must be, since they can affect action (I will behave differently if a possible consequence of my actions has occurred to me, than if it hasn't. That depends on knowledge as well as habits of thought.) Whether "thinking is being" or "doing is being" our thoughts are a part of us.

But of course thoughts are not "owned" unless I guess they are kept secret. Once voiced, anyone else can have that thought too. In that sense I agree with you. We are sharing experience by dialogue, having thoughts together. It is your thought, until I read it and harbour it in my mind ... at which it becomes common property. No copyright: I can use "your" thought for anything I want, and you mine.

Debate of course involves disagreement. That is probably far more valuable to us in the search for truth, as it forces us to consider our own assumptions even when they aren't specifically pointed out to us. In terms of a "search for truth" both are required: affirmation AND denial of beliefs. Failure to make a point, failure to have it accepted, is a very useful goad. Perhaps the belief is not quite as true as I thought, if someone else can so adamantly not get it?

Both affirmation and denial can be unbalanced. Certainly some people have strong beliefs that don't manifest at all except in opposition to some other belief ... and others have beliefs only when those are sympathetically received. Neither is particularly good, the first is inflexible and defensive (permanently braced for a fight, as it were) while the second is fragile and inclined to wishful thinking.

The ideal is a "reasonable" belief. It can be explained and defended, but also allows for speculation and thought experiment.

We know you love attention. So is he pimping out you attention whore's? What cut are giving him?

The House Cut, like in a casino. It's his damn thread!

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts. We are social creatures, so we need to feel that we fit in with the group. Some of us require more validation in that than others, perhaps because we feel deficient or because we are not satisfied with the amounts we get. Or something. It's really just an idea.Without having read anywhere past this OP, it springs to mind immediately that many of us are wondering what motivated you to post this in the first place, other than to lead by example.
Perhaps we have a great idea, a brain fart, something that needs to be said in a resonant context, and/or something that only works in understanding if it's in an environment to be challenged.
Perhaps a person only comes to a conclusion they could have come to by first exposing it in a provocative manner.
Perhaps our only vindication in life is knowing you've made a "difference", no matter how small.

I would like to propose a toast.

To all Lurkers, who like Good Children are seen but not heard.
Who Spam not, nor troll, nor utter any insolent word
But receive our words of wisdom with silent awe
Whose respect is not cheapened by the selfish need to quote for truth
Who take our offerings in the spirit they were intended:
Shut up, I'm talking.

To Lurkers!

*clink*

Isn't the PC term now "Gender Challenged"?No ... it's "berdache".

I would like to propose a toast.

To all Lurkers, who like Good Children are seen but not heard.
Who Spam not, nor troll, nor utter any insolent word
Who receive our words of wisdom with silent awe
Whose respect is not sullied with the selfish need to quote for truth
Who take our offerings in the spirit they were intended:
Shut up, I'm talking.

To Lurkers!

*clink*

Hurrah!
*sups heartily and noisily (to) Amarenthe*

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

I invoke Matthew, 7:3 .
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts.

Of course.
Man is a social animal who detests his own equals. (Eugène Delacroix). That's why we bitch on internet fora. (Risottia's corollary).

Aren't you a transvestite?

No...transsexual. Lack of relevance to thread much? Yes. Much.

Isn't the PC term now "Gender Challenged"?

No, no it isn't. But I won't hold that against you. I'm very much against discrimination towards those who are mentally differently-abled. kthxbai

its a cultural thing, learned behavior at the age one is most susceptible to it.

Nanatsu reported it to Moderation, but seems to have accepted Kyronea's explanation that "troll" appeared in the same sentence as her screen-name by accident. Just poor phrasing.

I wouldn't if it was me. Picking out two posters as examples of something pretty much universal isn't a good idea.

I did report it. Then I thought "Screw it". It's pretty obvious that Kyronea doesn't like me. Of course, I won't be universally liked, and not everyone will be charming to me. It's ok. But to appear on the OP, and unwarranted because I don't think I am a troll, was very uncomfortable.

If I'm called an attention whore, so be it. I have fun. But the troll remark was uncalled for. I don't know if it was poor phrasing on his part. I don't think it was, this isn't the first time Kyronea starts a fuss because of me and doesn't address me directly (unlike you, BSB). But I have so many things on my mind to give this crap particular primacy.

SNIP

I understood that he wasn't calling you a troll, just an attention seeker.

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts. We are social creatures, so we need to feel that we fit in with the group. Some of us require more validation in that than others, perhaps because we feel deficient or because we are not satisfied with the amounts we get. Or something. It's really just an idea.

I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone who wants attention is looking for "validation."

Isn't the PC term now "Gender Challenged"?
No, actually, "gender challenged" is a juvenile attempt at using PC language to mock people whose sexuality makes you uncomfortable.

It is also a lame joke that was old back when Clinton was in office.

No, actually, "gender challenged" is a juvenile attempt at using PC language to mock people whose sexuality makes you uncomfortable.

It is also a lame joke that was old back when Clinton was in office.

It must be old, he came into office the year I was born.

Snip.

Considering people are defending even ME and attacking him, I really don't think you should worry. I, for one, AM an attention seeker and giggle at the label. It comes with the 11th Division, Heroic Sociopath, Ikkaku/Mayuri thing. ;)

Considering people are defending even ME and attacking him, I really don't think you should worry. I, for one, AM an attention seeker and giggle at the label. It comes with the 11th Division, Heroic Sociopath, Ikkaku/Mayuri thing. ;)

Vamos, pero Ikkaku es Ikkaku.

Es que no me agrada aparecer en OPs de NSG. Ye to', compadre.;)

Depends. Some people have egos so big they implode and become alter-egos; some were mentally/emotionally bruised as kids; some have that whole Frued/Larkin thing going on and were raised feeling the need to prove their worth to their parents; and then there's the massive wopping social instinct bit you mentioned. But not me! Cos I'm like total not an attention-seeker or nothing! :D

But if other people don't validate me, who will?

I like approval of others, because it reassures me that it might not be just because my strange sleep patterns that are giving me these ideas and opinions.*disapproves*

But if other people don't validate me, who will?

Yourself. All the approval you need you can give it to yourself.

Yourself. All the approval you need you can give it to yourself.

Isn't that a bit arrogant? It's like saying "I am always right, no matter what you think".

Isn't that a bit arrogant? It's like saying "I am always right, no matter what you think".

I am always right.

I am always right.
Oh, okay then.

Isn't that a bit arrogant? It's like saying "I am always right, no matter what you think".

Nope, it's not arrogant at all, because it has nothing to do with one thinking one is always right. I know I am not always right, but I have sense enough to retract my point of views when I see I am wrong.

Yourself. All the approval you need you can give it to yourself.

Nanatsu, while I simpathize, you think you are disliked by some here. I am the most disliked nation person on NS Jolt. For beign a native born Cuban now Cuban American citizen, anti dictators for life Fidel and Raul Castro, pro Rep Rep Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, pro Elian Gonzalez in the USA not that so called democratic socialist Cuban paradise island nation.

Nanatsu, while I simpathize, you think you are disliked by some here. I am the most disliked nation person on NS Jolt. For beign a native born Cuban now Cuban American citizen, anti dictators for life Fidel and Raul Castro, pro Rep Rep Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, pro Elian Gonzalez in the USA not that so called democratic socialist Cuban paradise island nation.

Recuerda una cosa muy importante, MiamiShores, no somos moneditas de oro para caerle bien a todo el mundo. Habrá quien crea que eres extraordinario, y habrá aquellos que te consideren acojonante. Que lo que los demás piensen te la sude.

Y el que te desteste por tus ideologías y convicciones, que se vaya a tomar por culo. Sólo la cuchara sabe lo que se menea dentro del caldero.

I am the most disliked nation person on NS Jolt. For beign a native born Cuban now Cuban American citizen, anti dictators for life Fidel and Raul Castro, pro Rep Rep Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, pro Elian Gonzalez in the USA not that so called democratic socialist Cuban paradise island nation.

Not really.

The leader of the group is usually the one that receives the most attention, therefore attention = stature. So to that end, it would be our primordial desire to have attention, so we can feel validated that, 'hey they're looking at me, I must be important,' ignoring the logical side that you could be doing something wrong or stupid. Then again instincts = irrational and evolution = rational, so that would further my own opinion that it is based more over with what we're born with. Some might have a greater desire to have higher stature, or their instincts out way their rationality (as is notable that many people who claw at attention are NOT the brightest) so basically, I believe it to be a remainder of a strong instinct to be the 'pack leader'.

Yourself. All the approval you need you can give it to yourself.

Reminds me of Kat Williams recent quip. "Women, stop telling me that I'm messing up your self esteem. It's esteem of yourself! How can I change the way you feel about you simple bitch?"

Not really.

Seconded, Miami Shores is not disliked by me.

Yourself. All the approval you need you can give it to yourself.

I think that depends on the person, and it depends on their situation.

The reasonable standard of it, is that a person be able to "self-affirm," to keep themselves on a level keel and not sink into a suicidal state, without affirmation from others.

For instance, if stranded on the proverbial "desert island" -- but of course not actually desert, with sufficient food and fresh water to survive -- would they stay alive, or kill themselves from loneliness?

(Personally, I am not confident that I would. I've been quite lonely at times, but there were wild creatures and plants, or the simulation of human company which is media or books.)

But actually, there are worse scenarios. Situations where one has contact with others, but those others deliberately (from hatred) withhold affirmation. Are hostile to you. An example would be a victim of torture.

I don't think we can say for sure, that everyone has the ability to endure the "desert island." And I am quite sure that not everyone could endure indefinite imprisonment with torture, without sinking into a state where they would quite sincerely prefer to die.

This isn't just morbid. It's worse than that. Perhaps I'm going too far to make my point.

My point is that not everyone can necessarily "self-affirm," talk positively to themselves and keep their own spirits up, in all situations. People are built (self-built?) to their environments, and a harsh enough turn for the worse would probably break any of us.

Nanatsu, while I simpathize, you think you are disliked by some here. I am the most disliked nation person on NS Jolt. For beign a native born Cuban now Cuban American citizen, anti dictators for life Fidel and Raul Castro, pro Rep Rep Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, pro Elian Gonzalez in the USA not that so called democratic socialist Cuban paradise island nation.

Wrong. I am the most disliked!!!

I don't "dislike" Miami Shores either.

But I do find MS's posts boring. Miami Shores varies the tune only minimally in response to questioning or challenge by other posters. It's pretty much the same old rant, every time.

I realize this may be more hurtful than an outright flame. But I've tried a few times to phrase this, to explain why I don't debate MS, why I am rude and dismissive of him.

I find fault with my attitude, but there's really nothing for it but to be honest. I feel sorry for Miami Shores. I pity him.

Is pity better or worse than hatred? I don't know. It's just what I've got.

Sólo la cuchara sabe lo que se menea dentro del caldero.

This made me laugh and blew my mind at the same time. Is it a common phrase? :tongue:

Edit: I think there's a minimum amount of "validation" we all need to convince ourselves that our values and assumptions aren't out of whack (a process often called reality testing). This means seeking others' opinions, necessarily. Whether you are solitary and prefer to test your perception of "reality" through reading and corresponding to others only on the internet (as is my habit) or feel the need to do this verbally and/or in social settings, you're doing the same thing. People who do it explicitly for recreation (as is the accusation, it seems to me, leveled toward "attention-seekers") aren't necessarily wrong - they just have a habit I don't agree with. No big thing.

I did report it. Then I thought "Screw it". It's pretty obvious that Kyronea doesn't like me. Of course, I won't be universally liked, and not everyone will be charming to me. It's ok. But to appear on the OP, and unwarranted because I don't think I am a troll, was very uncomfortable.

If I'm called an attention whore, so be it. I have fun. But the troll remark was uncalled for. I don't know if it was poor phrasing on his part. I don't think it was, this isn't the first time Kyronea starts a fuss because of me and doesn't address me directly (unlike you, BSB). But I have so many things on my mind to give this crap particular primacy.
I called you an attention-seeker, just as I called myself an attention seeker. And I applied the term neutrally, with no labeling of it as either good or bad.

I apologize if you feel offended, and I apologize for my poor wording, but you must understand that your misinterpretation is just that, a misinterpretation.

Nanatsu, while I simpathize, you think you are disliked by some here. I am the most disliked nation person on NS Jolt. For beign a native born Cuban now Cuban American citizen, anti dictators for life Fidel and Raul Castro, pro Rep Rep Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, pro Elian Gonzalez in the USA not that so called democratic socialist Cuban paradise island nation.

Wait, who are you?

Honestly, this sort of "I'm the most hated!" thing is right in line with the OP: there's a certain type of poster who likes to brag about being the most hated poster on a forum. It's like a four year old who just wants attention even if it's negative attention.

Nine times out of ten, the person claiming to be "hated" is actually somebody that most people don't even notice. The other one percent of the time they're a person who expends massive amounts of energy to be annoying, which is even less impressive because pissing people off on the internet is like shooting GAY ducks in a ABORTION barrel COMMUNISM CAPITALISM GOD.

I don't "dislike" Miami Shores either.

But I do find MS's posts boring. Miami Shores varies the tune only minimally in response to questioning or challenge by other posters. It's pretty much the same old rant, every time.

I realize this may be more hurtful than an outright flame. But I've tried a few times to phrase this, to explain why I don't debate MS, why I am rude and dismissive of him.

I find fault with my attitude, but there's really nothing for it but to be honest. I feel sorry for Miami Shores. I pity him.

Is pity better or worse than hatred? I don't know. It's just what I've got.

What though I wonder is the source of your dislike for me huh huh?

Wait, who are you?

Honestly, this sort of "I'm the most hated!" thing is right in line with the OP: there's a certain type of poster who likes to brag about being the most hated poster on a forum. It's like a four year old who just wants attention even if it's negative attention.

Nine times out of ten, the person claiming to be "hated" is actually somebody that most people don't even notice. The other one percent of the time they're a person who expends massive amounts of energy to be annoying, which is even less impressive because pissing people off on the internet is like shooting GAY ducks in a ABORTION barrel COMMUNISM CAPITALISM GOD.

Ohhh that's a lot of buttons you have just pushed.:D

This made me laugh and blew my mind at the same time. Is it a common phrase? :tongue:

Yes, it is quite a common expression, and almost every single country in the Spanish speaking world has a variation of it.

I called you an attention-seeker, just as I called myself an attention seeker. And I applied the term neutrally, with no labeling of it as either good or bad.

I apologize if you feel offended, and I apologize for my poor wording, but you must understand that your misinterpretation is just that, a misinterpretation.

As I already posted in moderation, it matters not. Poor wording? Intentional? It's inconsequential, Kyronea. I was merely posting to BunnySaurus Bugsii.

I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone who wants attention is looking for "validation."

Probably. But that's why I put up the topic for discussion, so we could all offer our opinions on it.

Tell me I'm pretty.

Tell me I'm pretty.

Ugly bastard.

Ugly bastard.

:(

/wrists

^ I think that about answers the OP's question, BTW.

I don't need validation. The data I output on here is in entriely the right format. What I need is verification. Proof-reading might be a good method, but I don't really like the sound of double entry.

Ah...AS-level ICT, so many years on, you still on rare occasions have your uses.

pissing people off on the internet is like shooting GAY ducks in a ABORTION barrel
:hail: It is the prophecied one! All hail the messias of the Internet!:hail:

No...transsexual. Lack of relevance to thread much? Yes. Much.

It is relevant in the sense that if I was in a class and I saw a transvestite I wouldn't be able NOT to notice him or her.

I called you an attention-seeker, just as I called myself an attention seeker. And I applied the term neutrally, with no labeling of it as either good or bad.

Really? Let's look at the post in question:

It's a question I ponder, as I am one of those who seems to thrive on attention from others. And we see plenty of examples of this need even here on NSG, what with Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls...we've got attention-seekers galore.

OK, it's true you put yourself as the first example. It seems to me that "thriving on" attention is a more positive thing than "need" for attention, but perhaps you're just trying to use some variation of terminology to make the post more interesting.

The issue that went to Moderation is the phrase "Nanatsu and Heikoku and all the trolls." You say that may be poor phrasing, that it was misinterpreted.

How can you equivocate about this? The interpretation that N and H are examples of a wider class (trolls) is the direct literal interpretation. Compare "Peter and Paul and all the saints" or "Turnips and Swedes and all the vegetables."

There seems to be a tendency, a trend, towards a more and more negative view of "attention seeking." Thrive -- need -- trolls. You are in there, at the positive end of that trend, and the other named posters are in there at the negative end.

And having hit the low point of "trolls are people too" your OP enters a phase of "let's psychoanalyze ourselves" ...

So why do we do it? I posit that it is related to our social instincts. We are social creatures, so we need to feel that we fit in with the group. Some of us require more validation in that than others, perhaps because we feel deficient or because we are not satisfied with the amounts we get. Or something. It's really just an idea.

(You really took your foot off the gas at the end there huh? Saw trouble coming?)

Ask yourself, if you had been named in the first paragraph, wouldn't YOU feel that this second paragraph implies that you are one of the more "needy," the ones who "feel deficient" ...? Wouldn't you feel that people are being asked to comment on you, and what you say or do to "fit into the group"?

I apologize if you feel offended, and I apologize for my poor wording, but you must understand that your misinterpretation is just that, a misinterpretation.

How could anybody not be satisfied with that apology? :rolleyes:

The first half is OK. But the second half stinks, it really does. Telling someone what they should think never sits well -- what are the dreadful consequences of not understanding, that the recipient "must" understand? That's an ultimatum!

"Your misinterpretation" also reeks of trying to shift the blame. It was my misunderstanding too. For your apology to ring true you must act as though you now read it that way also. That they fault lies with you, and only with you, for the words you chose, and that anyone's "misinterpretation" is your fault, not theirs.

Let me try to phrase it better for you. "I apologize for offending you. I understand how you interpreted what I said as calling you and H trolls, and the fault lies entirely with me in phrasing it so poorly."

Right. Now I'm off to counsel Radovan Karadžić about how to phrase "Srebrenica was my fault." :tongue:

P.S. Sorry to hear the Navy didn't work out for you. No pics of you wrestling pirates or peeing off the poop deck or whatever sailors do. :(

What though I wonder is the source of your dislike for me huh huh?

My long-term memory isn't that great. I remember being quite strongly opposed to something you said a few months ago but I don't remember what it was.

I will take this opportunity (since you quoted a post I would rather delete now) to say that my assessment of Miami Shores as "boring" has been overturned already. I spoke from annoyance at a particular thread where I found him repetitive, but a search has shown me some much more detailed and varied posts, though admittedly on the same subject of Cuba.

I'll tell you this right now, "if there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot."

It's a little unclear what you mean by "poster." For me, a poster is something more than a post or a collection of posts, but something less than a living human being. I believe that somewhere in the world, a person sits at a keyboard and types all of the posts with a particular name (oh, except that diabolical machine Jhahannam) but I try to not find out what they look like or the sound of the voice.

I don't like having images and sounds attached to the words of some posters but not others. It sets them apart, gives or subtracts quality from the explicit meaning of their posts. But of course it's hard to avoid, when people put pictures of themselves in their avatars or disclose personal details about their lives. I can't help thinking of soldiers as potentially violent, of teachers as didactic, pot smokers as vague. I would rather follow their thoughts as written in words, without such prejudicial impressions of "who" they are.

Yet a "poster" is something more than just a collection of posts, too. Moods come through, different reactions in different threads. Good days and bad days, of clearer or more confused perception. Days when they'll take a joke in good part or take offence. A context for each post, in the system of thought of that poster ... and that makes some statements seem truer than their explicit meanings, or less true.

So a poster is more like a certain aspect, or key aspects of the human behind it? As though--for instance--Geniasis embodies certain key traits of the human being that assumes that name? Not wholly the human, but slightly more than just a shadow?


How could anybody not be satisfied with that apology? :rolleyes:

The first half is OK. But the second half stinks, it really does. Telling someone what they should think never sits well -- what are the dreadful consequences of not understanding, that the recipient "must" understand? That's an ultimatum!

"Your misinterpretation" also reeks of trying to shift the blame. It was my misunderstanding too. For your apology to ring true you must act as though you now read it that way also. That they fault lies with you, and only with you, for the words you chose, and that anyone's "misinterpretation" is your fault, not theirs.

Let me try to phrase it better for you. "I apologize for offending you. I understand how you interpreted what I said as calling you and H trolls, and the fault lies entirely with me in phrasing it so poorly."


How about instead of "your misinterpretation was only your misinterpretation" or whatever the exact wording was:

"I'm sorry you misunderstood me in my OP. (I can see how you arrived at the conclusion you did/Though I cannot understand how you reached the conclusion you did) you must understand that it was never my intention to convey the sentiment that you saw when you read my post"

Or something more along those lines?

It is relevant in the sense that if I was in a class and I saw a transvestite I wouldn't be able NOT to notice him or her.

I really depends on a combination of how they're dressed and how naturally passable they are, I find.

My long-term memory isn't that great. I remember being quite strongly opposed to something you said a few months ago but I don't remember what it was.

I will take this opportunity (since you quoted a post I would rather delete now) to say that my assessment of Miami Shores as "boring" has been overturned already. I spoke from annoyance at a particular thread where I found him repetitive, but a search has shown me some much more detailed and varied posts, though admittedly on the same subject of Cuba.

Ahhhh the ole aceehol huh! I get it.:D

So a poster is more like a certain aspect, or key aspects of the human behind it? As though--for instance--Geniasis embodies certain key traits of the human being that assumes that name? Not wholly the human, but slightly more than just a shadow?

A poster is a poster. I have no doubt that other posters invest a lot of time and effort, as I do, in posting. That after doing it for a while, it becomes the main expression of their personality and perhaps even the main source of the "validation."

And what is a human, that you know them as such? Isn't it ultimately, once you have stopped noticing the colour of their hair, or their habits, or even the deal you can strike with them for mutual pleasure ... what they thought? How their thoughts influenced you, and how their thoughts led to the actions which affected you?

Consider a friend or relative who is now dead (if you knew any such of course.) Isn't the part of them which lives on in you a pattern of thought, whether moral or humorous or didactic?

I think, therefore I am. And from that, for the dead: I thought and therefore I was.

Expression in words is not the whole of thought. But in our being for others, communing with others, being there for others when they need us, expression in words is the greater part of our humanity. It is how we best know each other.

"I'm sorry you misunderstood me in my OP. (I can see how you arrived at the conclusion you did/Though I cannot understand how you reached the conclusion you did) you must understand that it was never my intention to convey the sentiment that you saw when you read my post"

Or something more along those lines?

No, not really. I explained at some length that I think the explicit meaning of "Heikoku and Nanatsu and all the trolls" is that H and N are trolls.

To say you "cannot understand" how that conclusion could be reached, is to raise (in the midst of a supposed apology) the issue of whether the recipient is right or wrong. And to hold out that they are wrong.

A full apology does not do that. Far better, if you are really seeking a resolution of THEIR dispute, is to apologize for what you did, which in this case is to say a certain thing. And if you cannot see things their way, hold your peace on that.

Then you wait with bated breath for their acceptance of your apology. After that, you can explain or question the truth of the interpretation ... on their sufferance.

An apology is the quitting of any further claim. If reconciliation follows, good, but after an apology (a full and sincere apology) you should not fight on and try to draw the line to your advantage beyond what you apologized for.

Anyone who can't do that, should just take their ban, or live with a grudge held against them. If you can't apologize, you shouldn't lie about it. You shouldn't voice some words that you think are expected of you, and then go against the spirit of your words. An apology is a pledge, and a person is no better than their word given in pledge.

In short, your proposed form of apology is no better than Kyronea's. It stinks.

==========

Ahhhh the ole aceehol huh!
I have no idea what you are talking about.

"I apologize if you feel offended" is the best non-apology ever.