NationStates Jolt Archive

I know that we're all aware that sequels always disappoint, but I have a issue that's new to me, so I want to parade my bugbear in the public view, so you can all pander to me :)

So anyway, I finally got round to buying and reading the last two books in the Dune series (many years late I'm aware), and I've got to say, never more did the sequels thing ring true than with those books.

For all that they may have been based on outlines left by the great man himself, I'm sure that Frank Herbert had a far better ending for his epic than the paltry, half-baked efforts put forward by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson. Fair enough to try to imitate his style would just leave us all wanting, and they said as much in the foreword to one of their two, but even so, they just lacked even the merest semblance of the subtlety, intricacies and... scope, I think the word would be, that I loved so much about the first six books.

Tell me I'm not the only one who was left sorely disappointed by Hunters and Sandworms? They were pretty poor right? By all means point out why they were brilliant - I'd love to be proved wrong - but I just... after so long waiting, the sweet taste of completion soon turned to bitter ashes in my mouth.

Don't worry, i was also sorely disappointed by the failure of the later Dune sequels.

you should have stopped after the first book. the rest all suck.

you should have stopped after the first book. the rest all suck.

See I was still going with it, in a somewhat indulgent fashion, all the way up 'til Chapterhouse. Dune was easily the best, but even after that, whilst the big man himself was still writing, they were still enjoyable and readable. And not so simplified that a child could follow the various plottings.

See I was still going with it, in a somewhat indulgent fashion, all the way up 'til Chapterhouse. Dune was easily the best, but even after that, whilst the big man himself was still writing, they were still enjoyable and readable. And not so simplified that a child could follow the various plottings.
the brian herbert ones must be truly awful. i read the sequels by frank herbert as they came out and was terribly disappointed by them.

the brian herbert ones must be truly awful. i read the sequels by frank herbert as they came out and was terribly disappointed by them.

Urgh, don't get me started. Of course having said that I'll get started with no further ado :)

Deus ex machina abound, particularly in Sandworms, so there's no tension whatsoever, so drive to find out how on earth things will possibly work out right. That was a huge turn-off.

Then there's various minor episodes that could/should build in to major plot lines, but turn out to be pointless non-sequiters; each one was like a tiny slap in the face that left me feeling unfulfilled, like being stopping sex right before the big finish, as it were.

Then there's absolutely no attempt at any cloak-and-daggery, no hidden agendas, no evidence of any 'plans within plans within plans within plans'. The only case I can think of in Dune where someone's motives are really revealed is (spoiler alert) telling us prior to the event that Dr Yueh is the traitor, and that just served to heighten the tension.

My most prominent quote, that just sums up all things wrong with these books, is something like:

'"Our victory will soon be assured," said Khrone. He meant victory for the Face Dancers, but he didn't say that.'

Not quite verbatim, but close enough. Even out of context, doesn't that just make you wince? It made me groan with pain, no exaggeration.

you should have stopped after the first book. the rest all suck.
They rest are, mostly, a lot slower-paced, but they're great none-the-less.

In fact, the slowest out of the six, God Emperor of Dune, is perhaps my favourite, as it delves into the thought behind the whole series; it's philosophy, if you will.

I've steered clear of his son's stuff, though.

the brian herbert ones must be truly awful. i read the sequels by frank herbert as they came out and was terribly disappointed by them.

Come on now, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune are quite enjoyable. When Leto starts turning into a 3000 year old sandworm god; that's when the series became disappointing.

Come on now, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune are quite enjoyable. When Leto starts turning into a 3000 year old sandworm god; that's when the series became disappointing.

Actually, I thought those ones were the best...the intricate plots and philosophical discussion on humanity's evolution were really fascinating. I was also interested to see how they had increasingly abandoned the proscriptions of the Butlerian Jihad as a necessary condition for human survival. It really illustrates the dangers of stagnation and trading security for freedom as well as the pitfalls that survival itself presents.

Also, sexual imprinting doesn't sound all that bad to be honest...

Actually, I thought those ones were the best...the intricate plots and philosophical discussion on humanity's evolution were really fascinating. I was also interested to see how they had increasingly abandoned the proscriptions of the Butlerian Jihad as a necessary condition for human survival. It really illustrates the dangers of stagnation and trading security for freedom as well as the pitfalls that survival itself presents.
Eloquently put.

Also, sexual imprinting doesn't sound all that bad to be honest...
As long as you're Duncan fucking Idaho.

Actually, I thought those ones were the best...the intricate plots and philosophical discussion on humanity's evolution were really fascinating. I was also interested to see how they had increasingly abandoned the proscriptions of the Butlerian Jihad as a necessary condition for human survival. It really illustrates the dangers of stagnation and trading security for freedom as well as the pitfalls that survival itself presents.

Also, sexual imprinting doesn't sound all that bad to be honest...

Dune Messiah has definitely grown on me since I first read it - one of the finer examples of Frank Herbert's mastery of power plays and court intrigues. Made all the more enticing by the whole prescience/stagnation/entrapment thing.

As long as you're Duncan fucking Idaho.

That lucky bastard...

*barely controls urge to make thread entitled: 'The dead horse that is sequels 2: The Revenge' *

*barely controls urge to make thread entitled: 'The dead horse that is sequels 2: The Revenge' *

Do it! Do it dammit! The world needs this! How can you pass up such a perfect opportunity?

Besides, just throw in some flashy CGI, some impressive seeming plot 'twists' and a talking dog and no one will mind.

As Penny Arcade said (I can't recall which strip it was exactly or I'd link it); "Frank Herbert; they are raping his corpse." I have to say I agree with that sentiment, but then I also think that Kevin J. Anderson should be barred from writing science fiction.

As Penny Arcade said (I can't recall which strip it was exactly or I'd link it); "Frank Herbert; they are raping his corpse." I have to say I agree with that sentiment, but then I also think that Kevin J. Anderson should be barred from writing science fiction.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2003/20031015h.gif

Pretty much.

As Penny Arcade said (I can't recall which strip it was exactly or I'd link it); "Frank Herbert; they are raping his corpse." I have to say I agree with that sentiment, but then I also think that Kevin J. Anderson should be barred from writing science fiction.

I read that strip long before I actually read the books. Having gone back and found it after finishing them, I have to say they don't go far enough. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/10/15/)

And is Anderson's own stuff really bad? Because I've seen a couple of the Saga of Seven Suns books here and there and had considered getting them, but if they're as bad as the latter Dune books I won't waste my money.

Tell me I'm not the only one who was left sorely disappointed by Hunters and Sandworms? They were pretty poor right? By all means point out why they were brilliant - I'd love to be proved wrong - but I just... after so long waiting, the sweet taste of completion soon turned to bitter ashes in my mouth.

Sorry me oul flower, but they're shite, pure and simple (The Brian Herbert ones). I could only take the first three.

They rest are, mostly, a lot slower-paced, but they're great none-the-less.

In fact, the slowest out of the six, God Emperor of Dune, is perhaps my favourite, as it delves into the thought behind the whole series; it's philosophy, if you will.

I've steered clear of his son's stuff, though.

My favourite too. Siaynoq...

I read the first of the son's stuff. I barely finished it, and have tried to forget it. I could do a better job.