NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been thinking lately about dishes. Not how to do them properly, I'm fairly certain I have handle on that. My musings have been on the economics of it, both personal and environmental. Of course, in the current economy, my personal economics have a slight lead.

Since I live alone, doing a day's worth of dishes by hand isn't a time-consuming or particularly onerous task, in fact it takes almost as much time to rinse the dirty dishes, load the dishwasher and then unload it when the dishes are done - and that includes drying dishes that the appliance invariably leaves wet - even on the dry cycle.

I'm wondering, though about the relative costs of the two processes. I'm thinking I'll save money if I wash by hand and use the dishwasher only for big, greasy items or when I have people over for dinner. It'll probably be better for the environment, too.

So, economists and environmentalists of NS, what say you - by hand or by machine?

cheaper by hand if your apartment has free water.

I don't wash the dishes. But dishwashers are alien to us, so it'll be by hand.

use detergent that you don't have to rinse them it's a big time saver

You forget the third viable option: disposable dishes!

Paper plates, plastic utensils, plastic cups.

Paper plates, plastic utensils, plastic cups.

So environmental of you.

So, economists and environmentalists of NS, what say you - by hand or by machine?

Hand, and I heat the water on the cooking fire.
I don't own a dish washing machine, and I don't want it. It would suck up a lot of electricity - here in Italy electricity costs a lot.

Or we could eat with our hands?Anyone consider that option?hahaha.Nah, I wash my dishes in hot water with dish washing detragant and I just leave them to dry,which saves the effort of rinsing them and hand drying them,and saves water.

By hand is a pain in the ass, imo.

I do them by hand, I just can't be assed to use that damn dishwasher if I have to wash my dishes before I put them in it...

I've been thinking lately about dishes. Not how to do them properly, I'm fairly certain I have handle on that. My musings have been on the economics of it, both personal and environmental. Of course, in the current economy, my personal economics have a slight lead.

Since I live alone, doing a day's worth of dishes by hand isn't a time-consuming or particularly onerous task, in fact it takes almost as much time to rinse the dirty dishes, load the dishwasher and then unload it when the dishes are done - and that includes drying dishes that the appliance invariably leaves wet - even on the dry cycle.

I'm wondering, though about the relative costs of the two processes. I'm thinking I'll save money if I wash by hand and use the dishwasher only for big, greasy items or when I have people over for dinner. It'll probably be better for the environment, too.

So, economists and environmentalists of NS, what say you - by hand or by machine?
There are many pages of websites devoted to the topic of whether a dishwasher or hand washing is more environmentally friendly and cheaper.

The bottom line seems to be that a dishwasher is generally both (which I thought was surprising) - but that, individually, it still depends on your specific use (how many dishes you wash how often, how much water you use when hand washing, how energy-efficient your dishwasher is, etc.)

Here are some articles - you'll have to read them for yourself to determine which describes your situation best and (if you're so inclined) act accordingly:

http://www.iconocast.com/EB000000000000097/U1/News1.htm

http://www.greendaily.com/2007/11/05/this-or-that-the-dishwasher-vs-handwashing/

http://yourfinishrichplan.com/blog/2008/06/03/which-saves-more-money-handwashing-or-dishwasher/

Japan is finally getting dishwashers, but they be little tiny things that sit on your counter and aren't too good.

I miss having a dishwasher, but then again it never got used in Nevada after my wife (Then girlfriend) moved in with me. She, being a Japanese woman, has fundamental issues with dishwashers and views them as machines that just make women lazy. In fact, her believe is that washing dishes by hand builds up the spirit of a woman (These are all HER words, NOT mine). So obviously, you should wash them by hand not because of the environmental issues but because you'll built up your womanly spirit. *nods*

I've been thinking lately about dishes. Not how to do them properly, I'm fairly certain I have handle on that. My musings have been on the economics of it, both personal and environmental. Of course, in the current economy, my personal economics have a slight lead.

Since I live alone, doing a day's worth of dishes by hand isn't a time-consuming or particularly onerous task, in fact it takes almost as much time to rinse the dirty dishes, load the dishwasher and then unload it when the dishes are done - and that includes drying dishes that the appliance invariably leaves wet - even on the dry cycle.

I'm wondering, though about the relative costs of the two processes. I'm thinking I'll save money if I wash by hand and use the dishwasher only for big, greasy items or when I have people over for dinner. It'll probably be better for the environment, too.

So, economists and environmentalists of NS, what say you - by hand or by machine?

I cannot touch any glass that comes out of the dishwasher... the surface gets kind of roughed up, and touching it gives me that someone-scratching-fingernails-over-a-blackboard feeling.

And since our plates are made from glass, a dishwasher doesn't make a lot of sense to us.

Japan is finally getting dishwashers, but they be little tiny things that sit on your counter and aren't too good.

I miss having a dishwasher, but then again it never got used in Nevada after my wife (Then girlfriend) moved in with me. She, being a Japanese woman, has fundamental issues with dishwashers and views them as machines that just make women lazy. In fact, her believe is that washing dishes by hand builds up the spirit of a woman (These are all HER words, NOT mine). So obviously, you should wash them by hand not because of the environmental issues but because you'll built up your womanly spirit. *nods*

*lol I'll have to tell my Bf about that, as he's the one doing the dishes (with me usually doing all the cooking) ;)

*lol I'll have to tell my Bf about that, as he's the one doing the dishes (with me usually doing all the cooking) ;)

Don't tell him that, you'll end up wasting all that time you and/or his mom spent training him.

I've been thinking lately about dishes. Not how to do them properly, I'm fairly certain I have handle on that. My musings have been on the economics of it, both personal and environmental. Of course, in the current economy, my personal economics have a slight lead.

Since I live alone, doing a day's worth of dishes by hand isn't a time-consuming or particularly onerous task, in fact it takes almost as much time to rinse the dirty dishes, load the dishwasher and then unload it when the dishes are done - and that includes drying dishes that the appliance invariably leaves wet - even on the dry cycle.

I'm wondering, though about the relative costs of the two processes. I'm thinking I'll save money if I wash by hand and use the dishwasher only for big, greasy items or when I have people over for dinner. It'll probably be better for the environment, too.

So, economists and environmentalists of NS, what say you - by hand or by machine?
you do not need to rinse dishes before you put them in the dishwasher.

it seems creepy for a single person to wait to wash the dishes until she has a full load for the dishwasher. what would that take, a week? in the meantime they sit in the dishwasher growing all sorts of horrible germs.

it is supposedly more economic to wash in a full dishwasher than it is to wash by hand.

Paper plates, plastic utensils, plastic cups.

Pfft! Eat off printer paper with your hands. That's the way to go.

I would think it depends on things like the dishwasher you have, how much water you use when you wash dishes by hand, how often you run the dishwasher, etc.

Currently I don't have a dishwasher in my apartment, so all the dishes get done by hand. It's a little more time consuming, and I do miss having a dishwasher, but on the whole it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference.

Paper plates.

Japan is finally getting dishwashers, but they be little tiny things that sit on your counter and aren't too good.

I miss having a dishwasher, but then again it never got used in Nevada after my wife (Then girlfriend) moved in with me. She, being a Japanese woman, has fundamental issues with dishwashers and views them as machines that just make women lazy. In fact, her believe is that washing dishes by hand builds up the spirit of a woman (These are all HER words, NOT mine). So obviously, you should wash them by hand not because of the environmental issues but because you'll built up your womanly spirit. *nods*

My Korean GF throws the dishes at me if I don't do them! Maybe I need to reconsider my ranking of of Japan and Korea.

You forget the third viable option: disposable dishes!

That's the least economic option.

Other options that make sense in the long term.

Own one plate, one cup, one saucer, one glass, one knife, fork, and spoon. Whenever you eat or drink you wash the dish you plan to use as part of the preparation of your meal. Personally I own two dinner sets that each provide service for eight and enough wine glasses to host a political fund-raiser, but that is the approach I take with my coffee mug. I only use my favorite mug every time, if I can find it. I put the kettle on (it's a coffee mug, but I only drink tea) wash the mug and come back when I hear the click. When I'm done drinking I leave the dirty cup by my computer, where it's still sitting from the cup of tea I had an hour ago. Even my wife doesn't complain because she knows it's the one dish I won't leave dirty for long.

The other option is to buy a full dinner service set of dishes. Eight cups, saucers, bread plates, dinner plates, glasses and sets of silverware. when you're done eating put the dinnerware in the dishwasher. By the end of the week you'll have some clean dishes for the weekend, and a full dishwasher. Saturday night you turn on the dishwasher before going to bed. Sunday morning put the clean dishes away.

Vermin may become a problem with option two.

you do not need to rinse dishes before you put them in the dishwasher.

it seems creepy for a single person to wait to wash the dishes until she has a full load for the dishwasher. what would that take, a week? in the meantime they sit in the dishwasher growing all sorts of horrible germs.

it is supposedly more economic to wash in a full dishwasher than it is to wash by hand.

I like to cook, so, while the dishwasher isn't exactly full at the end of a day, it has enough in it to qualify as a full load. Also, a dishwasher works better when you have a light load - sometimes, when I had what most people consider a full load, the dishes were not clean when the cycle had finished.

I'm also considering the fact that the effective dishwasher detergents are environmentally unfriendly, while the environmentally friendly ones not only cost more, but are woefully inadequate at cleaning. Apparently, the liquid soap used for handwashing, is environmentally safer, though the monetary cost is comparable to the machine detergents.

So environmental of you.

I know.

I know.

And don't take me wrong. My view on the environment is, if there is anything left for my descendants I haven't used the earth to its fullest. Just using only throw aways seems low class and not environmentally friendy

If you're by yourself, you don't need that many dishes, so you wash them by hand.

If you're living with a whole bunch of people like I am, and you use lots of dishes, then a dishwasher is far more economical.

I like to cook, so, while the dishwasher isn't exactly full at the end of a day, it has enough in it to qualify as a full load. Also, a dishwasher works better when you have a light load - sometimes, when I had what most people consider a full load, the dishes were not clean when the cycle had finished.

I'm also considering the fact that the effective dishwasher detergents are environmentally unfriendly, while the environmentally friendly ones not only cost more, but are woefully inadequate at cleaning. Apparently, the liquid soap used for handwashing, is environmentally safer, though the monetary cost is comparable to the machine detergents.
the part that bothers me is the high temperature needed to run a dishwasher. it forces you to keep your hot water heater at a much higher temp than is necessary for any other use.

but since you rinse your dishes i dont see why you use the dishwasher at all.

Paper plates, plastic utensils, plastic cups.

^^^this, Ill be honest, im too lazy for china...

the part that bothers me is the high temperature needed to run a dishwasher. it forces you to keep your hot water heater at a much higher temp than is necessary for any other use.
Your dishwasher is hot fill??

I've never even heard of that existing before now.

Your dishwasher is hot fill??

I've never even heard of that existing before now.
yes.

mine has a heat boost option that is supposed to make the water hot enough to kill some germs but most dishwashers here are "cold fill" (if that is a term)

do you have a hot water heater with a tank?

yes.

mine has a heat boost option that is supposed to make the water hot enough to kill some germs but most dishwashers here are "cold fill" (if that is a term)
I only just learned it's a term from googling how dishwashers work after reading your post because I was so surprised that yours draws in hot water. So yeah, apparently the terms are "hot fill" and "cold fill", and from everything I've found it seems that hot fill dishwashers are exceedingly rare / obsolete.

So am I understanding you correctly that yours is also basically cold fill and only draws in hot water when using the germ killing extra boost option?

do you have a hot water heater with a tank?
Personally, I have a tankless water heater, a thing on the wall the size of a big shoebox that heats up the water instantly by running it through a winding, electrically heated length of copper pipe. Sadly, it eats up a lot of energy.

But those are relatively rare and probably only ever done in older apartment buildings. I honestly don't even know what people use today exactly - some kind of big heater in the basement where water is heated up by just running through it, it seems, sometimes (always?) with a tank - but not a tank as in the past, where when you were the third one to shower the hot water would all be used up and you'd get a freezing wake-up call.

I only just learned it's a term from googling how dishwashers work after reading your post because I was so surprised that yours draws in hot water. So yeah, apparently the terms are "hot fill" and "cold fill", and from everything I've found it seems that hot fill dishwashers are exceedingly rare / obsolete.

So am I understanding you correctly that yours is also basically cold fill and only draws in hot water when using the germ killing extra boost option?


Personally, I have a tankless water heater, a thing on the wall the size of a big shoebox that heats up the water instantly by running it through a winding, electrically heated length of copper pipe. Sadly, it eats up a lot of energy.

But those are relatively rare and probably only ever done in older apartment buildings. I honestly don't even know what people use today exactly - some kind of big heater in the basement where water is heated up by just running through it, it seems, sometimes (always?) with a tank - but not a tank as in the past, where when you were the third one to shower the hot water would all be used up and you'd get a freezing wake-up call.
no im stupid and wrote it wrong.

my dishwasher and every dishwasher i can recall seeing in the store brings in HOT water from the hot water heater tank. it requires it to be 140degrees (60C) whereas for most other needs (including enough for family showers) all you need is 120 degrees (49C)

I keep a small nuclear fission reactor in my kitchen. Stick the plates and stuff in there and you won't have a problem with germs anymore. It provides cheap, clean power to my PC too.

I keep a small nuclear fission reactor in my kitchen. Stick the plates and stuff in there and you won't have a problem with germs anymore. It provides cheap, clean power to my PC too.
great idea. im holding out for a cold fusion unit myself.

by the way did you know that this is not an in-character forum?

I keep a small nuclear fission reactor in my kitchen. Stick the plates and stuff in there and you won't have a problem with germs anymore. It provides cheap, clean power to my PC too.

But doesnt the radioactivity clog the colon?

I'm well aware of that thanks, Ashmoria!

But doesnt the radioactivity clog the colon?

As we all learned from those radioactive energy drinks back in the good ol' days, a little bit of radioactivity is good for you.

It is probably cheaper to do them by hand however if you factor in the opportunity cost of what you could do with the half-hour to hour it consumes then the cost tends to fall in line. Not to mention it is an extra storage area.

As for environmental concerns I would imagine the soap is fairly similar. The amount of water use may be slightly better on the machine side. Machines are able to operate with a lot hotter water therefore allowing a better cleaning factor.

If I had the money I would get one.

Just have a lot of dishes so you can load the washer up to full before you flip it on. For really dirty dishes, let 'em soak a bit in a sink full of soap water; no need to actually "clean" them, the soak should be enough.

Small amount of dishes = More economical to do by hand
Huge amount of dishes = Machines are the way to go

As for drying...Can't see myself ever drying dishes because of these kinds (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/skimbaco/scandinavian-design/2604633229_ba429c1d47.jpg) of cupboards.


That's Scandinavian civilization for ya :)

I've been thinking lately about dishes. Not how to do them properly, I'm fairly certain I have handle on that. My musings have been on the economics of it, both personal and environmental. Of course, in the current economy, my personal economics have a slight lead.

Since I live alone, doing a day's worth of dishes by hand isn't a time-consuming or particularly onerous task, in fact it takes almost as much time to rinse the dirty dishes, load the dishwasher and then unload it when the dishes are done - and that includes drying dishes that the appliance invariably leaves wet - even on the dry cycle.

I'm wondering, though about the relative costs of the two processes. I'm thinking I'll save money if I wash by hand and use the dishwasher only for big, greasy items or when I have people over for dinner. It'll probably be better for the environment, too.

So, economists and environmentalists of NS, what say you - by hand or by machine?

dishes? Do dishes?

as in wash?

I buy paper plates in bulk and toss them in to the recyle bin. :D

Small amount of dishes = More economical to do by hand
Huge amount of dishes = Machines are the way to go

As for drying...Can't see myself ever drying dishes because of these kinds (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/skimbaco/scandinavian-design/2604633229_ba429c1d47.jpg) of cupboards.


That's Scandinavian civilization for ya :)

so... you have water dripping off of the cups and down to the plates?

so... you have water dripping off of the cups and down to the plates?
Small amounts to kithcen sink.

Really, the actual amount of water that drips is insignificant after few minutes from dishwashing ie. basically after you've drained the sink and wiped the table there's no noticable drip.

Small amounts to kithcen sink.

Really, the actual amount of water that drips is insignificant after few minutes from dishwashing ie. basically after you've drained the sink and wiped the table there's no noticable drip.

but you do have water dripping off in those few moments after you put the dishes on the drying rack. :p

but you do have water dripping off in those few moments after you put the dishes on the drying rack. :p
Well, I'd rather have dripping water than bacteria'n dirt from the drying towel :p

Dishes need washing now?

More propaganda from the Health and Safety do-gooders. Once a month just knock the crust of dirt off with a chisel. Never did me any harm.

Well, I'd rather have dripping water than bacteria'n dirt from the drying towel :p

but that's my 'special flavoring'! :(