NationStates Jolt Archive

Woa, this is old but very interesting....What do you guys think?


Lesbian couples could one day have children who share both their genes

Sperm cells have been created from a female human embryo in a remarkable breakthrough that suggests it may be possible for lesbian couples to have their own biological children.

British scientists who had already coaxed male bone marrow cells to develop into primitive sperm cells have now repeated the feat with female embryonic stem cells.

The University of Newcastle team that has achieved the feat is now applying for permission to turn the bone marrow of a woman into sperm which, if successful, would make the method more practical than with embryonic cells.

It raises the possibility of lesbian couples one day having children who share both their genes as sperm created from the bone marrow of one woman could be used to fertilise an egg from her partner.

Men and women differ because of what are called sex chromosomes. Both have an X chromosome. But only men possess a Y chromosome that carries several genes thought to be essential to make sperm, so there has been scepticism that female stem cells could ever be used to make sperm.

In April last year, Prof Karim Nayernia, Professor of Stem Cell Biology at Newcastle University, made headlines by taking stem cells from adult men and making them develop into primitive sperm.

He has now managed to repeat the feat of creating the primitive sperm cells with female embryonic stem cells in unpublished work.

The next step is to make these primitive sperm undergo meiosis, so they have the right amount of genetic material for fertilisation.

Prof Nayernia showed the potential of the method in 2006, when he used sperm derived from male embryonic stem cells to fertilise mice to produce seven pups, six of which lived to adulthood, though the survivors did suffer problems.

He is now optimistic about the prospect of lab-grown sperm from women.

“I think, in principle, it will be scientifically possible,” Prof Nayernia told New Scientist.

He said that he has applied for ethical approval from the university to use bone marrow stem cells from women to start experiments to derive female sperm.

“We are now writing the application form,” he said, adding that experiments will begin in Newcastle if and when they get approval.

However, Dr Robin Lovell-Badge, a stem cell and sex determination expert at the National Institute for Medical Research, Mill Hill, London, doubts it will work: “The presence of two X chromosomes is incompatible with this. Moreover they need genes from the Y chromosome to go through meiosis. So they are at least double-damned.”

In Brazil, a team led by Dr Irina Kerkis of the Butantan Institute in Saõ Paulo claims to have made both sperm and eggs from cultures of male mouse embryonic stem cells in the journal Cloning and Stem Cells.

The researchers have not yet shown that their male eggs can be fertilised to produce viable offspring, but they are thinking about possibilities for same-sex human reproduction.

If all these experiments pan out, then the stage would also be set for a gay man to donate skin cells that could be used to make eggs, which could then be fertilised by his partner’s sperm and placed into the uterus of a surrogate mother.

“I think it is possible,” says Kerkis, “but I don’t know how people will look at this ethically.”

The UK parliament is now debating changes to the 1990 Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act, and the government is under pressure to include an amendment that would allow the future use of eggs and sperm grown in the lab from stem cells.

However, a clause added to this amendment would restrict this to sperm from genetic males and eggs from genetic females.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3323846/Sperm-cells-created-from-female-embryo.html

Edit: By safe, I mean psychological and physical both.

Youre gonna have to prove that its not defective, something about the word "primitive" suggests otherwise...

Youre gonna have to prove that its not defective, something about the word "primitive" suggests otherwise...

Well, they are just starting this

"The next step is to make these primitive sperm undergo meiosis, so they have the right amount of genetic material for fertilisation"

May take decades.

Woa, this is old but very interesting....What do you guys think?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3323846/Sperm-cells-created-from-female-embryo.html

To me the exciting prospect would be bringing back extinct species of which we have a genetic sample. There'd be no need to breed approximated hybrids, we could just create a male and a female. And to keep the fundies happy, we'll call it "Project Noah's Ark."

Interesting. Could be a strike against those 'Procreation only' people.

Well, they are just starting this

"The next step is to make these primitive sperm undergo meiosis, so they have the right amount of genetic material for fertilisation"

May take decades.

true, but Idk, it just sounds sketchy, I picture a scenario, something like, one or two successes, but overtime it shows that there is a higher ratio for this, this, this, and this, etc...

and it gets a bunch of defective babies...

To me the exciting prospect would be bringing back extinct species of which we have a genetic sample. There'd be no need to breed approximated hybrids, we could just create a male and a female. And to keep the fundies happy, we'll call it "Project Noah's Ark."

That and in humans: lesbians and cure infertility for str8's.

I have a dream. I want to be paid to get a lesbian chick pregnant. This technology lessens that chance and should be outlawed.

true, but Idk, it just sounds sketchy, I picture a scenario, something like, one or two successes, but overtime it shows that there is a higher ratio for this, this, this, and this, etc...

and it gets a bunch of defective babies...

Nope, that wont go over ethics board which approves research. They will have to come up with something else and reliable.

Am I the only man who feels scared by this? I mean, the only reason we're even worth anything is that we can produce sperm.

I knew I wanted to be a woman for a reason!

Am I the only man who feels scared by this? I mean, the only reason we're even worth anything is that we can produce sperm.

I knew I wanted to be a woman for a reason!

Wait until they clone a dick :D

Wait until they clone a dick :D
presumably theyll clone pussy as well, so, if he feels inadequate, ;)

That's pretty nifty.

If this ever gets perfected...

... Men will no longer be necessary for the survival of the human race.

Think well on that folks.

:D

If this ever gets perfected...

... Men will no longer be necessary for the survival of the human race.

Think well on that folks.

:D

Psh, a woman surviving without men, thats just absurd, crazy talk even, :p

Am I the only man who feels scared by this? I mean, the only reason we're even worth anything is that we can produce sperm.

I knew I wanted to be a woman for a reason!This is either sarcasm or deep rooted insecurity. I'm not sure which.

If this ever gets perfected...

... Men will no longer be necessary for the survival of the human race.
That's only a problem if you're nothing more than a sperm-producing machine.

Religion and science are in opposition. We can defeat religion through scientific progress.
Riiight. Religion /=/ Anti-Scientific Conservative freaks.

Riiight. Religion /=/ Anti-Scientific Conservative freaks.

It must be different where you live, :(

I support this because it conflicts with religion.

Thats it?

That's only a problem if you're nothing more than a sperm-producing machine.Exactly. And conversely, why not develop an artificial womb. That way a prospective parent need not be worried about the intake of the surrogate mother (drugs, alcohol, unbalanced diet, etc..). Nor would they need to be worried about an early birth, miscarriage, or a whole host of other problems associated with pregnancy and birth.

You could eliminate sex for the purpose of procreation and make everyone hermaphrodites with cyborg switches to change the predominant hormone in their system should they think they need to switch to a different form of reasoning and prioritising.

I think I may be going off topic...

I always knew there would come a day when men were obsolete. Women need men like fish need a bicycle.

An artificial womb would only embolden the anti-Choice forces to agitate to have fetuses surgically removed from women and placed into artificial wombs, rather than killing them by abortion.

This would likely be riskier to women, and besides would undermine her rights over her own body.

Exactly. And conversely, why not develop an artificial womb. That way a prospective parent need not be worried about the intake of the surrogate mother (drugs, alcohol, unbalanced diet, etc..). Nor would they need to be worried about an early birth, miscarriage, or a whole host of other problems associated with pregnancy and birth.

You could eliminate sex for the purpose of procreation and make everyone hermaphrodites with cyborg switches to change the predominant hormone in their system should they think they need to switch to a different form of reasoning and prioritising.

I think I may be going off topic...

Hermaphrodites with cyborg switches doesnt sound sexy. Plus thats way different. They wont be altering human DNA here. They are just manipulating our natural stem cells.

I always knew there would come a day when men were obsolete. Women need men like fish need a bicycle.
As has been (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14691116&postcount=17) said previously (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14691140&postcount=21), this would seem to assume that (heterosexual) women only 'need' men for sperm and nothing more.

It must be different where you live, :(

Eh, we have our religious nutjobs up here too. Luckily, there are plenty of sane worshipers around here as well.

Hermaphrodites with cyborg switches doesnt sound sexy. Plus thats way different. They wont be altering human DNA here. They are just manipulating our natural stem cells.

Speak for yourself, :wink:

I always knew there would come a day when men were obsolete. Women need men like fish need a bicycle.

If artifical womb 300 comes out, women will be so passe too, considering this:


If all these experiments pan out, then the stage would also be set for a gay man to donate skin cells that could be used to make eggs, which could then be fertilised by his partner’s sperm and placed into the uterus of a surrogate mother.

Here's a good article on how artificial wombs might make abortion illegal: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abowomb.htm

The argument is centered around the "before viable outside the womb" idea that a lot of people accept.

Here's a good article on how artificial wombs might make abortion illegal: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abowomb.htm

The argument is centered around the "before viable outside the womb" idea that a lot of people accept.

By the time we'll have artificial wombs, we'd prolly have FAAAR more effective birth control methods. (like 100% effective)

As has been (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14691116&postcount=17) said previously (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14691140&postcount=21), this would seem to assume that (heterosexual) women only 'need' men for sperm and nothing more.

Companionship? They could get a dog
Financial support? They could support themselves
Security? They could get a gun or a security system


What do they need us for? Maybe for amusement?

Damn I am going to have to brush up on my joke telling

Here's a good article on how artificial wombs might make abortion illegal: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abowomb.htm

The argument is centered around the "before viable outside the womb" idea that a lot of people accept.

Yeah, but the question is, would anyone care? A surrogate can already be found, and its still the woman's choice whether to undergo the procedure, and it still will be when they make artificial wombs...

How many people think they will see a cloned human in their lifetime? Someone somewhere will break the law and then.....

How many people think they will see a cloned human in their lifetime? Someone somewhere will break the law and then.....

stem cell research =/= cloning an entire human

It's like comparing viagra to kidney transplant

How many people think they will see a cloned human in their lifetime? Someone somewhere will break the law and then.....

Soon as those Kaminoans make good on my investment.....

Companionship? They could get a dog
Yeah, but most of us come house trained.:wink:

Meh! I'll worry about this if & when they get it to work for Ursines too, and not before...

:p

By the time we'll have artificial wombs, we'd prolly have FAAAR more effective birth control methods. (like 100% effective)When we get artificial wombs I expect everyone to be castrated shortly after puberty and new laws stating that just as no one has the right to take a life, neither do they have the right to create one. *goes off on an authoritarian megalomaniac tirade*

Hermaphrodites with cyborg switches doesnt sound sexy. Plus thats way different. They wont be altering human DNA here. They are just manipulating our natural stem cells.What's wrong with altering DNA? Pretty much everyone's DNA is defective in one way or another. We could eliminate all sorts of congenital problems if we wanted to.

Hermaphrodites would be great. Get home from a hard days work where you and your partner could consider if you're going to be gay or straight, or male or female tonight.

Hermaphrodites would be great. Get home from a hard days work where you and your partner could consider if you're going to be gay or straight, or male or female tonight.

I do believe I'm no longer hungry.

Hermaphrodites would be great. Get home from a hard days work where you and your partner could consider if you're going to be gay or straight, or male or female tonight.

So you hit a switch, boobs come out. You hit another, a penis comes out?

So you hit a switch, boobs come out. You hit another, a penis comes out?

What if you hit both switches? :p

What if you hit both switches? :p

Transgender. But the real question is what if you hit none of the switches?

Transgender. But the real question is what if you hit none of the switches?

Then youve decided to be Asexual for the evening, lol...

I do believe I'm no longer hungry.Primitive human, unable to escape the shell of your existence. :p

So you hit a switch, boobs come out. You hit another, a penis comes out?The hell if I know. I think I was just assuming sex hormones had something to do with sexuality. "I feel like being more masculine today so I'll just crank the testosterone level up to 8" or whatever...

Primitive human, unable to escape the shell of your existence. :p

The hell if I know. I think I was just assuming sex hormones had something to do with sexuality. "I feel like being more masculine today so I'll just crank the testosterone level up to 8" or whatever...

But, these go up to 11, :p

But, these go up to 11, :p

But why don't you just make 10 louder?

This whole thing is not surprising. Women have been working to cut us off completely since time has begun. :eek:

This whole thing is not surprising. Women have been working to cut us off completely since time has begun. :eek:

I KNEW I WASNT CRAZY WHEN I WAS THREE!!! :eek:

I have a dream. I want to be paid to get a lesbian chick pregnant. This technology lessens that chance and should be outlawed.

Become a fertility doctor, or even a medical technician in a fertility clinic and your chances increase dramatically.

This is either sarcasm or deep rooted insecurity. I'm not sure which.

Sarcasm, of course.

Sarcasm, of course.

I prefer to counter with both, ;)

But, these go up to 11, :pBut only on premium models which we sell to chumps because of the psychosomatic effects of their dial having more numbers than normal.

Exactly. And conversely, why not develop an artificial womb. That way a prospective parent need not be worried about the intake of the surrogate mother (drugs, alcohol, unbalanced diet, etc..). Nor would they need to be worried about an early birth, miscarriage, or a whole host of other problems associated with pregnancy and birth.
It's very much near ready to use. All that's left is to test it on humans, which is not legally possible.

By the way, male eggs are also a near possibility.

The hell if I know. I think I was just assuming sex hormones had something to do with sexuality. "I feel like being more masculine today so I'll just crank the testosterone level up to 8" or whatever...
Hormones don't help. You need to train your cock and then the valves to supply it with high-pressure hydraulic fluid.

Penis Quigong is extremely helpful in this. I've been doing it for a year now, although for different reasons - the main effect is not on size, but on hardness and the degree of control over your cock and all its functions.

(I can't give a ready url, as the best site has been cracked by 7chan and now has more imagery than originally intended. Use Google.)

Am I the only man who feels scared by this? I mean, the only reason we're even worth anything is that we can produce sperm.

I knew I wanted to be a woman for a reason!

Don't worry. Male eggs and artificial wombs will make women obsolete as well.

Sarcasm, of course.I bow to your superior sarcasm-fu. I am obviously not able to understand a master such as yourself.

Don't worry. Male eggs and artificial wombs will make women obsolete as well.

And so the Gender Wars (http://games.multimedia.cx/gender-wars/) begin...

And so the Gender Wars (http://games.multimedia.cx/gender-wars/) begin...

Wasnt there an Anime like that?

And so the Gender Wars (http://games.multimedia.cx/gender-wars/) begin...I bet the developer had just been dumped. That or he (I presume) was a misogynistic homosexual.

Soon as those Kaminoans make good on my investment.....

And then the galaxy will tremble.

Now men are obsolete... these scientists have spelled the doom of men!

WTF!? I'm obsolete?

WTF!? I'm obsolete?

Yes, now they don't need us to reproduce, and face it thats all we've been good for since the women's rights movement! I forsee the male gender disapearing within a few generations...

Unless the car breaks down, or there's a mouse in the room.:)

Unless the car breaks down, or there's a mouse in the room.:)

I know plenty of women who can fix a car (I'm a man who can't) and as for mice; thats why cats exist.

I know plenty of women who can fix a car (I'm a man who can't) and as for mice; thats why cats exist.

Don't get rational.:(

Don't get rational.:(

Only by being rational can we put together our minds and find a way to prevent our gender from going extinct!

EDIT: Note this may involve being kind, considerate, sensitive to the female needs, and willing to cuddle! Or evenn worse... holding her purse when she has to go to the restroom/chaning room in a store!

Only by being rational can we put together our minds and find a way to prevent our gender from going extinct!

Women are irrational, our plans can never work.:p

edit: Exit Mundi tells us: http://www.exitmundi.nl/giggle.htm

This is so wrong its unbelivable,i hope there's a better reason for this than givin the lesbians a chance to have a kid,i mean do we really know what we're gettin into here?this sounds like somthing youd see in a movie and youll b shoutin at the screen for em to stop because you know its going to backfire!i mean we already have procedures for people strugglin with infertility so to start billion dollar research so lesbians can have some sort of defective excuse for a human being and parade it around as theirs while its probably sufferring from the fact its aging 5 times as fast as normal like dolly the sheep or whatever it was called and cant find its dad!actually i wouldnt be worried guys,if theirs even a hint of somthing dodge the whole thing will be destroyed,remember we run 99% of worldwide military so knock yoursleves out ladies

This is so wrong its unbelivable,i hope there's a better reason for this than givin the lesbians a chance to have a kid,i mean do we really know what we're gettin into here?this sounds like somthing youd see in a movie and youll b shoutin at the screen for em to stop because you know its going to backfire!i mean we already have procedures for people strugglin with infertility so to start billion dollar research so lesbians can have some sort of defective excuse for a human being and parade it around as theirs while its probably sufferring from the fact its aging 5 times as fast as normal like dolly the sheep or whatever it was called and cant find its dad!actually i wouldnt be worried guys,if theirs even a hint of somthing dodge the whole thing will be destroyed,remember we run 99& of worldwide military so knock yoursleves out ladies

You know, actually if this is perfected and done properly it would become a whole new way for sterile men to have children too...

what are the chances of it bein perfected?slim,and is this really the time to be sinking billions into somthin that probably wont work and probably shouldnt be allowed to work!have people forgotten about adoption?whats going to happen to orphan kids with this????

what are the chances of it bein perfected?slim,and is this really the time to be sinking billions into somthin that probably wont work and probably shouldnt be allowed to work!have people forgotten about adoption?whats going to happen to orphan kids with this????

They spend more on less worthy causes...

How sad.

what are the chances of it bein perfected?
Depends on the demand. With demand, probably 95%+.

They spend more on less worthy causes...

you could say they also spend less on more worthy causes couldnt you?

what are the chances of it bein perfected?slim,and is this really the time to be sinking billions into somthin that probably wont work and probably shouldnt be allowed to work!have people forgotten about adoption?whats going to happen to orphan kids with this????

Do you really care about the kids?

Do you really care about the kids?

I do. I really wish we would reproduce less and adopt more, though I am not in favor of banning this research.

Do you really care about the kids?

the only thing that really bothers me about it, is if it turns out they have a higher risk of defects or something...

and because its only a higher risk,and not a certainty it will be incredibly difficult to stop...

I do. I really wish we would reproduce less and adopt more, though I am not in favor of banning this research.

Then stand up and be counted. :salute:.

@Skallvia: I was thinking the same...

Then stand up and be counted. :salute:.

If I ever become "involved", I would hope for someone who would be willing to adopt rather than reproduce. These days, unfortunately, if anyone adopts non-white children she is called an attention whore.

I personally wouldn't make the distinction, since in my envisioned world orphanages would be well-run, so...yeah. Anyhow, though--we're already technically way above our natural population limit, so...it wouldn't hurt.

Do you really care about the kids?

i believe i do

1-i dont want to see a time when freaks of nature in all manner of speaking are made that probably wont have any style of life,and -lets face it,would have alot of possible defects

2-all this messin around with nature while there are 1000s of kids who hav no family

3-our population is growing too fast apparently

I dont know what you mant by that,whether you were really askin me or you were tryin to b smart,at any rate there's my answer