NationStates Jolt Archive

Another step in the right direction from Obama

The US has stopped running its global network of secret prisons, CIA director Leon Panetta has announced.

"CIA no longer operates detention facilities or black sites," Mr Panetta said in a letter to staff. Remaining sites would be decommissioned, he said.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/7993087.stm

So the US is moving back from the bad place where the Bush regime took it. I am guessing we can trust this statement to some extent.

I am guessing we can trust this statement to some extent.
Can we?

I don't feel confident that the US government, its intelligence agencies, and other institutions (some of which must be working with foreign powers) are simply going to stop what appears to be a long history of secretive detention and interrogation for the sake of public outcry.

It's a non-transparent system; how would we ever know?

Can we?

I don't feel confident that the US government, its intelligence agencies, and other institutions (some of which must be working with foreign powers) are simply going to stop what appears to be a long history of secretive detention and interrogation for the sake of public outcry.

It's a non-transparent system; how would we ever know?

It is an interesting question - I just don't know how much honesty we can expect.

It is an interesting question - I just don't know how much honesty we can expect.
Especially from an organisation (or set of organisations; do we know, for example, whether US intelligence agencies/organisations outside of the CIA have promised not to have secret detention centres? What about private contractors? What about US agents sitting in on SIS, Mossad, etc., detentions? Etc., etc.) which has happily done this sort of stuff for decades and is, I would imagine, staffed by persons who think such conduct is vital to national security.

Moreover, "no longer operat[ing] detention facilities or black sites" isn't 'no longer detaining'.

Nothing's really going to change re: detention centers. We're just not going to hear about it so much anymore. Gitmo is closing (eventually) but most of the detainees are just being moved to various military bases here in the states to await a trial of some sort.

Jack Bauer wouldn't give in to terrorists this easily.

I've always wanted to live next door to a terrorist.

So the US is moving back from the bad place where the Bush regime took it. I am guessing we can trust this statement to some extent.
No, it just won't do these things so openly and on such an industrial scale.

But Obama is a strong supporter of the War Of Terror. He won't let it down.

I've always wanted to live next door to a terrorist.
It never (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk2CPzIgBRo) works out well...

In related news, look for a major terrorist attack within the next few weeks.

In related news, look for a major terrorist attack within the next few weeks.

Lol, troll troll is troll.

Do you have inside information about a terrorist attack that you're not sharing with the proper authorities? Or are you yourself threatening terrorism? Because both those would be criminal. Or, more likely, are you insinuating that merely announcing the closure of CIA torture facilities (not actually closing them yet, mind you), is enough provocation for terrorists to attack, ignoring logic, sense, reason, and reality? Knowing you, I'd wager an awful lot of money on the guess that involves you not knowing what the hell you're talking about.

Another step in the right direction from Obama



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/7993087.stm

So the US is moving back from the bad place where the Bush regime took it. I am guessing we can trust this statement to some extent.
Yes, we can return to the Carter/Church years of almost no clandestine activity. That would be great.

Especially from an organisation (or set of organisations; do we know, for example, whether US intelligence agencies/organisations outside of the CIA have promised not to have secret detention centres? What about private contractors? What about US agents sitting in on SIS, Mossad, etc., detentions? Etc., etc.) which has happily done this sort of stuff for decades and is, I would imagine, staffed by persons who think such conduct is vital to national security.

Moreover, "no longer operat[ing] detention facilities or black sites" isn't 'no longer detaining'.
they arent going to stop grabbing people off the street and interrogating them. but they (for now) are closing the sites where they torture them and keep them indefinitely. i hope its true and i hope they continue (to stop it) long after obama leaves office. that kind of secret power is too dangerous.

It is an interesting question - I just don't know how much honesty we can expect.

Well it comes down to how much control you think a president has over the US government. It's probably a lot less than most people think.

So I would say, not too much.

So back to sending our detainees to Egypt to be tortured then ?

Another step in the right direction from Obama



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/7993087.stm

So the US is moving back from the bad place where the Bush regime took it. I am guessing we can trust this statement to some extent.

ah, yes... because we have a list of all these "detention facilities" or "black sites" to check to see that each and every one are shut down.

most likely they will just shut down those that the 'public' knows about and a few they don't.

The right wing angst here is glorious.

In related news, look for a major terrorist attack within the next few weeks.

Will you be cheering if one happens, because you get to say you were right?

Will you be angry if it doesn't, and will steadfastly ignore that you made this claim?

Can we?

I don't feel confident that the US government, its intelligence agencies, and other institutions (some of which must be working with foreign powers) are simply going to stop what appears to be a long history of secretive detention and interrogation for the sake of public outcry.

It's a non-transparent system; how would we ever know?

So, what youre essentially saying is...no matter what the US gov says, youre going to continue to believe that we have secret torture prisons.

Awesome.

So, what youre essentially saying is...no matter what the US gov says, youre going to continue to believe that we have secret torture prisons.

Awesome.

I find it difficult to trust the word of the director of the CIA.

I find it difficult to trust the word of the director of the CIA.

I have no reason to distrust the word of the current president however.


If people want to keep believing we have the prisons, fine. Just dont bring it up in a discussion and expect to be taken seriously, since youre relying on nothing but a "hunch".

So, what youre essentially saying is...no matter what the US gov says, youre going to continue to believe that we have secret torture prisons.
No, I'm saying that (a) this release doesn't emphatically state that the US does not continue to practice secret detention, it only claims that the CIA doesn't, (b) that without a transparent system, we cannot be sure of the veracity of the claims, and (c) that this doesn't rule out detention through other means.

I think it's fair to be cynical about the claims of institutions that put secrecy and misinformation ahead of truth; no matter what the President says.

ah, yes... because we have a list of all these "detention facilities" or "black sites" to check to see that each and every one are shut down.

most likely they will just shut down those that the 'public' knows about and a few they don't.

Which I would say is better than nothing.

No, I'm saying that (a) this release doesn't emphatically state that the US does not continue to practice secret detention, it only claims that the CIA doesn't, (b) that without a transparent system, we cannot be sure of the veracity of the claims, and (c) that this doesn't rule out detention through other means.

I think it's fair to be cynical about the claims of institutions that put secrecy and misinformation ahead of truth; no matter what the President says.

Transparency for a intelligence agency is a death sentence.

Do you think MI5 and SIS are completely forthcoming about everything they do?

Transparency for a intelligence agency is a death sentence.
Perhaps no bad thing.

Do you think MI5 and SIS are completely forthcoming about everything they do?
Obviously not.

Which I would say is better than nothing.

but read how it was worded. it gives the impression that the US is stopping this, not just one agency. ;)

Just like the statement "we do not believe nor do we practice torture in the US." *

Which is true. any torture we practice is OUTSIDE the US. ;)

*this is just an example, not a quote from anyone in particular.

Can we?
...
It's a non-transparent system; how would we ever know?
Because it's Obama. Don't you know that as long as Obama is in the White House you can trust government implicitly? This change is cause for hope! Now we can rest easy and never question government again.

Can we?

I don't feel confident that the US government, its intelligence agencies, and other institutions (some of which must be working with foreign powers) are simply going to stop what appears to be a long history of secretive detention and interrogation for the sake of public outcry.

It's a non-transparent system; how would we ever know?

There are levels of transparency, nothing is ever non-transparent, just less or more transparent.

I have no reason to distrust the word of the current president however.


He got elected president. Or rather he was permitted the oprtunity to be elected president. What more reason do you need?

People who trust politicians are just morAns ...and they need to get a brain. Being part black doesn't make him inherently more honest than the last leader to pass through the revolving door of power.

He got elected president. Or rather he was permitted the oprtunity to be elected president. What more reason do you need?

People who trust politicians are just morAns ...and they need to get a brain. Being part black doesn't make him inherently more honest than the last leader to pass through the revolving door of power.

And people who don't trust any politician at all tend to be the ones holed up in fortified bunkers with years of provision and firearms out in the middle of wilderness waiting for the collapse of society/nuclear war/alien invasion/Muslim invasion/et cetera or calling for state secession.

:p

I have no reason to distrust the word of the current president however.
Blind faith is the way froward comrade! Mine more tractors!