NationStates Jolt Archive

As the title says, if you had the capability, would you overthrow a government? Which one(s) and why.

Yes, Canadas.


Whose American now bitch!?!

*Watches as Troops move into the U.S.'s 51st state.*

I'd overthrow and usurp every government, because I don't trust others to do the job.

Depends.

Definitely not a government that was elected by reasonably fair democratic election. And probably not a government in an unstable state (like Pakistan).

I might be able to justify a state where the government is so utterly ghastly, that chaos and civil war would actually be a substantial improvement, or alternatively, invasion and occupation by a large, opportunisitic foreign power. Like North Korea.

To answer my own question, yes i would...

Andorra, Islamic Republic of Iran, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Holy See. As to why, it's simple they are theocracies and in my book theocracy=bad.

I would, but only if I got help......any government that infringes on my social, political, and economic freedoms.......Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iran,...those types of guys.

To answer my own question, yes i would...

Andorra, Islamic Republic of Iran, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Holy See. As to why, it's simple they are theocracies and in my book theocracy=bad.

But... does anyone really live in the Holy See except the pope, and maybe some other clergy, the swiss guards, etc.?

Not unless there was something better with which to fill the power vacuum.

But... does anyone really live in the Holy See except the pope, and maybe some other clergy, the swiss guards, etc.?

Doesn't really matter to me...
add in family members of the above and you've got it.
Citizenship

Citizenship of the Vatican City is granted iure officii, which means it is conferred upon some of those who have been appointed to work in certain capacities at the Vatican, and it is usually revoked upon the termination of their employment. During the period of employment citizenship may also be extended to a Vatican citizen's spouse (unless the marriage is annulled or dissolved, or if a conjugal separation is decreed) and children (until, if they are capable of working, they turn 25, or in the case of daughters, if they marry).[33]

On loss of Vatican citizenship, anyone who, as judged by Italian law, possesses no other citizenship automatically becomes an Italian citizen.[34]

As of 31 December 2005, there were 558 people with Vatican citizenship, of whom 246 were dual-citizens of other countries.

The 558 were:[35]

* The Pope;
* 58 cardinals, resident in Rome;
* 293 clergy, members of the Holy See's diplomatic missions;
* 62 other clergy, working in the Vatican;
* 101 members of the Papal Swiss Guard; and
* 43 other lay persons.

Thus, of those holding citizenship, 80% were Roman Catholic clergy, and most of the others were Swiss Guards, for whom being members of the Church is a condition of recruitment. Only for the 43 other lay persons was there no indication of religion.

lol 100% yes.

While I'd like to say yes, I'd probably never get around to doing such a thing. For one it would probably take to much of my 'me time', all of it in fact, which is really all my life is built around. I do shit for me, where the only factor in how enjoyable it turns out to be is the level of enthusiasm I bring to the table. Yes, I can be shit-disturber, but it isn't a constructive chaos I bring, rather because I enjoy seeing shit hit the fan.

So to answer your question, no I wouldn't overthrow a government. The scale of chaos I'd cause would have no benefit to those of whichever nation I decide to shake about and I'd get no more out the experience than doing whatever it is I do now.

To answer my own question, yes i would...

Andorra, Islamic Republic of Iran, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Holy See. As to why, it's simple they are theocracies and in my book theocracy=bad.

Iran's not that bad, aparantaly.

Iran's not that bad, aparantaly.

They are a theocracy, that's bad enough for me.

iran's not that bad, aparantaly.

wtf???

Yes. I would.

Which ones? All of them.

What would I have to do to overthrow a government? Is it anything like moving furniture because I'm allergic to manual labour and effort..

Doesn't really matter to me...
add in family members of the above and you've got it.

I guess, it just seems that anyone there is there of their own will, it's not like people really get born into the place and can't get out... seems like a waste of time to me.

That is to say, there are 43 people there that may not be Catholics, and are probably wives/children of the Swiss guards.

I guess, it just seems that anyone there is there of their own will, it's not like people really get born into the place and can't get out... seems like a waste of time to me.

Maybe I'll just burn the place to the ground then... :D

Maybe I'll just burn the place to the ground then... :D

:p

As to the OP I would overthrow governments, but only in the cases where it would be reasonable to expect improvement.

I would love to overthrow several governments. I guess the real question is how to do it right. I would like to get rid of theocracy and dictatorships and arm all citizens of every nation so they can defend their own rights. But most people aren't willing to fight for that kind of freedom.

The Vatican. *nods* :p

I would overthrow all governments. Anarchy is the best in my opinion. If people weren`t so bad we wouldn`t need governments :|

I would overthrow all governments. Anarchy is the best in my opinion. If people weren`t so bad we wouldn`t need governments :|

But they are, so we do.

Only Brazil. :p

I might support a peaceful revolution against most or all governments on the planet, if I thought the rebels would be better. The bar for violent revolution is a lot higher (things like genocide, basically).

I would never lead any such effort, peaceful or otherwise, because I'm not a soldeir, I'm a coward, and power corrupts.

But they are, so we do.

So your reasoning is because people are bad we need to oppress them?

Gee I wonder why they're bad.

So your reasoning is because people are bad we need to oppress them?

Gee I wonder why they're bad.

Because they're people?

Because they're people?
Well you're bad then, go sit in the corner.

Well you're bad then, go sit in the corner.

Bravo. You showed that communist what-for!

I do not know what government I would overthrow, because I would rather live at peace with my neighbors, whoever they may be. But secession, al a certain micronations and/or independence movements, maybe. What kind of country would result? check out my sig, which should give you a pretty good idea as to what kind of culture would develop:D

Well you're bad then, go sit in the corner.

You're an anarchist! You can't tell me what to do!

if you're not an anarchist I apologise but you did kinda infer it.. also, anarchism takes effort. I'm not sure if people could be bothered with it..

All of them.

Yes if it goes too far left.

North Korea: Team America needs to be re-filmed as a documentary. The most evil regime on earth.
Iran: The second-most evil regime on earth. Islamo-Nazi theocracies have no right to live, ever.
Cuba: I can't wait to party in Miami.
Venezuela: Hugo Chavez is a third-rate punk who is rapidly making himself a first-rate security menace. On top of that, he's fat and ugly.
Burma: time to slaughter SLORC. And they had no right to impose their bogus new name on the country.
Sudan: Nimieri looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the scum running the place today.
Saudi Arabia: 80 years of rule by the descendants of a desert bandit and his evil clerical allies is 80 years too long. Wahhabism must become one with the dinosaurs.

I would have added Somalia except there's no government to overthrow there. So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.

Governments should be overthrown when they do not act in/ act against the interests of their citizens. The Philippines would be the government I would like to overthrow.

North Korea: Team America needs to be re-filmed as a documentary. The most evil regime on earth.
Iran: The second-most evil regime on earth. Islamo-Nazi theocracies have no right to live, ever.
Cuba: I can't wait to party in Miami.
Venezuela: Hugo Chavez is a third-rate punk who is rapidly making himself a first-rate security menace. On top of that, he's fat and ugly.
Burma: time to slaughter SLORC. And they had no right to impose their bogus new name on the country.
Sudan: Nimieri looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the scum running the place today.
Saudi Arabia: 80 years of rule by the descendants of a desert bandit and his evil clerical allies is 80 years too long. Wahhabism must become one with the dinosaurs.

I would have added Somalia except there's no government to overthrow there. So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.

Sounds decent NM. I think this is the only time that anybody other than myself might actually agree with you to a large extent. North Korea, Sudan, Burma, Iran/Saudi Arabia (it's a toss-up between those two:confused:), along with certain right wing dictators we have supported over the years...we need to do damage control. As for Cuba, the point is...? I really don't see taking out the Castro brothers as being a major concern. As for Chavez, methinks that is what the I.G.N.O.R.E cannon in II is for:p

Burma: time to slaughter SLORC. And they had no right to impose their bogus new name on the country.

Yeah they do. Its their country.

So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.

Yeah, how well did that work last time?

Sweet! Everyone wants to overthrow the government of Saudi Arabia. Yeah, if massive improvenment can be done to the country, I'd overthrow the government.

Yes, Canadas.


Whose American now bitch!?!

*Watches as Troops move into the U.S.'s 51st state.*

*Starts Insurgency*
Fool, you just walked into Iraq with a blizzard. :p

I'd overthrow some nameless 3rd world country with plenty of resources and install myself as a lovable dictator

Iran's not that bad, aparantaly.

They strip even basic human rights from anyone who isn't a male heterosexual Twelver Shi'a Muslim. It's pretty bad.

So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.

Unless you're joking about that part, you're setting it up to be assassinated yourself.

They strip even basic human rights from anyone who isn't a male heterosexual Twelver Shi'a Muslim. It's pretty bad.

Not if you're a male heterosexual Twelver Shi'a Muslim

:p

Not if you're a male heterosexual Twelver Shi'a Muslim

:p

On top of that, anyone who is even remotely sympathetic to the west tends to live in an earthly Hell.

Ask me when I have a means of setting up a stable government that cannot be subverted by private concerns or power plays.

I presume only the right to over throw my own country.
I would not hesitate to do so if the country got out of line.

As the title says, if you had the capability, would you overthrow a government? Which one(s) and why.

Ummm, No, I would never ever do this :p Come on, I'm not that stupid to answer this one in the affirmative.

*sees a black van outside his doors*

Also: http://www.xkcd.com/565/

Burma: time to slaughter SLORC. And they had no right to impose their bogus new name on the country.


You know they didn't change the actual name. They just changed the English spelling to make it sound closer to how they pronounce it.
the English tend to do that with names they count pronounce.

Interesting thread.

How about Somalia nothing really going on there except piracy? Oh wait you would have to have one to overthrow it. It would be a good testing ground?

North Korea: Team America needs to be re-filmed as a documentary. The most evil regime on earth.
Iran: The second-most evil regime on earth. Islamo-Nazi theocracies have no right to live, ever.
Cuba: I can't wait to party in Miami.
Venezuela: Hugo Chavez is a third-rate punk who is rapidly making himself a first-rate security menace. On top of that, he's fat and ugly.
Burma: time to slaughter SLORC. And they had no right to impose their bogus new name on the country.
Sudan: Nimieri looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the scum running the place today.
Saudi Arabia: 80 years of rule by the descendants of a desert bandit and his evil clerical allies is 80 years too long. Wahhabism must become one with the dinosaurs.

I would have added Somalia except there's no government to overthrow there. So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.


I am with you, when can we start?:salute:

Remember that you are only allowed to advance one base on an overthrow. :)

Sudan: Nimieri looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the scum running the place today.

Nimeiry was no saint, of course, but he did do some great things. He brought peace to Sudan for about a decade, until he became influenced by Islamists.

I would have added Somalia except there's no government to overthrow there. So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.

A) What have Somalis ever done to you?
B) How does this make you any better than Islamist extremists?

Remember that you are only allowed to advance one base on an overthrow. :)

I think you could take over half of Africa before anyone would even notice. Ethiopia is right next door. Next would be Eritrea. Hardly anyone even know where that is. Then the Sudan and now you are rolling. We would be doing the world a favor almost. Plus it is 3 extra armies for all of Africa.

A) What have Somalis ever done to you?
B) How does this make you any better than Islamist extremists?

A) Shot up a lot of my fellow Americans who were acting as peacekeepers in 1993. Attempted to seize an American ship yesterday. Generally been a source of trouble for the world for decades. Currently a swamp of Islamo-Nazi terrorism, not to mention a base for piracy.

B) I don't care about being "any better". I care about crushing the enemy. Drying up at least one swamp of Islamo-Nazi terrorism would advance that goal.

Nimeiry was no saint, of course, but he did do some great things. He brought peace to Sudan for about a decade, until he became influenced by Islamists.



A) What have Somalis ever done to you?
B) How does this make you any better than Islamist extremists?

Piracy in this day and age?

Nah, I figure I'll just hide in my room and eat canned beans and drink one-bean coffee water until the rebels win. Maybe sneak out once in a while for some Victory Gin and Cigarettes, but otherwise keep a low profile.

I am with you, when can we start?:salute:

The sooner the better. But practically speaking, probably not until January 2013 when we get a new President who actually intends to advance American interests instead of badmouthing us all over the world and bowing in submission to Moslem despots.

If the will of the people was being brutally supressed and there were no peaceful options or ways of escaping/helping others seek refuge elsewhere, I'd consider participating in an overthrow. Making an effective soldier/paramilitary out of me would take one hell of an effort, though. :p I'd more likely be a liability.

I think you could take over half of Africa before anyone would even notice. Ethiopia is right next door. Next would be Eritrea. Hardly anyone even know where that is. Then the Sudan and now you are rolling. We would be doing the world a favor almost. Plus it is 3 extra armies for all of Africa.

Yay! :D

I think you could take over half of Africa before anyone would even notice. Ethiopia is right next door. Next would be Eritrea. Hardly anyone even know where that is. Then the Sudan and now you are rolling. We would be doing the world a favor almost. Plus it is 3 extra armies for all of Africa.

I could've sworn some batshit African dictator tried that with a bunch of Soviet weapons back in the day. Personally, I'd give up on Africa and focus on South America if we're looking for armies.

The sooner the better. But practically speaking, probably not until January 2013 when we get a new President who actually intends to advance American interests instead of badmouthing us all over the world and bowing in submission to Moslem despots.

We have to brush up on desert warfare. Libya is another one. Is there a non-crackpot dictatorship in the whole region? Bulldozers, lots and lot of bulldozers.

I could've sworn some batshit African dictator tried that with a bunch of Soviet weapons back in the day. Personally, I'd give up on Africa and focus on South America if we're looking for armies.

Yeah but then you get attacked the whole game by the guy in Australia and you have to watch the North, cuz if he gets that well... Plus it is only 2 armies. plus the Brazil - North Africa link and now you have all your armies all bunched up.

Reminds me of that movie Wag the Dog.

Winifred Ames: Why Albania?
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: Why not?
Winifred Ames: What have they done to us?
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: What have they done FOR us? What do you know about them?
Winifred Ames: Nothing.
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: See? They keep to themselves. Shifty. Untrustable.

Yeah but then you get attacked the whole game by the guy in Australia and you have to watch the North, cuz if he gets that well... Plus it is only 2 armies. plus the Brazil - North Africa link and now you have all your armies all bunched up.

True. You're going to need to take North America ASAP if you want half a chance of holding that position.

A) Shot up a lot of my fellow Americans who were acting as peacekeepers in 1993. Attempted to seize an American ship yesterday. Generally been a source of trouble for the world for decades. Currently a swamp of Islamo-Nazi terrorism, not to mention a base for piracy.

If "peacekeepers" came into my country uninvited, I'd do the exact same thing. And frankly, anyone dumb enough to go sailing in that area is just asking for trouble.

B) I don't care about being "any better". I care about crushing the enemy. Drying up at least one swamp of Islamo-Nazi terrorism would advance that goal.

"Love thy neighbor...?" :confused:

True. You're going to need to take North America ASAP if you want half a chance of holding that position.

Yeah that Alaska side is a real pain on the other side just as bad you got Iceland and Greenland. Usually Europe is a complete mess and that guy has been attacked the whole game and is itching for a fight. So either you attack the guy in Africa and risk your flank. The guy in Australia always has like 10 or 20 armies but he is trying to move north too.

North Korea: Team America needs to be re-filmed as a documentary. The most evil regime on earth.
Iran: The second-most evil regime on earth. Islamo-Nazi theocracies have no right to live, ever.
Cuba: I can't wait to party in Miami.
Venezuela: Hugo Chavez is a third-rate punk who is rapidly making himself a first-rate security menace. On top of that, he's fat and ugly.
Burma: time to slaughter SLORC. And they had no right to impose their bogus new name on the country.
Sudan: Nimieri looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the scum running the place today.
Saudi Arabia: 80 years of rule by the descendants of a desert bandit and his evil clerical allies is 80 years too long. Wahhabism must become one with the dinosaurs.

I would have added Somalia except there's no government to overthrow there. So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.

I was going to answer 'no' to the original question. Then I read this.

So - yes - I would follow New Mitty around, re-overthrowing everything he'd overthrown.

I was going to answer 'no' to the original question. Then I read this.

So - yes - I would follow New Mitty around, re-overthrowing everything he'd overthrown.

Why do it the hard way? Just overthrow the government that NM lives under, replace it with the exact same thing, but with the caveat that NM is put in a strait jacket and tossed into a box for the rest of his life. Prevention is better than cure.

Why do it the hard way? Just overthrow the government that NM lives under, replace it with the exact same thing, but with the caveat that NM is put in a strait jacket and tossed into a box for the rest of his life. Prevention is better than cure.

If we're allowed those sorts of options, can I just have NM 'overthrown' when he attempts his first state seizure?

Yeah that Alaska side is a real pain on the other side just as bad you got Iceland and Greenland. Usually Europe is a complete mess and that guy has been attacked the whole game and is itching for a fight. So either you attack the guy in Africa and risk your flank. The guy in Australia always has like 10 or 20 armies but he is trying to move north too.

Yeah, but he always camps out until Asia's worn down from trying to invade North America and ends up taking the continent just long enough to get the additional armies.

If we're allowed those sorts of options, can I just have NM 'overthrown' when he attempts his first state seizure?

Why not? The ability to overthrow a government is equally as usable for counter revolutions.

First off, I'm unpleasantly surprised to hear how many people think they have the right, or claim the responsibility, to overthrow governments they don't actually live under.

If I were living in a state where the government was doing ghastly things, and there was no legal or institutional recourse, I'd feel justified in overthrowing the government. There are a number of countries around the world where I'd probably be dead by now if I'd had the bad luck to be born there.

Fortunately, I live in an imperfect but redeemable state where more legitimate avenues of resistance and reform are available.

If I thought with certainty that I could overthrow a government in an at least reasonably peaceful and quick means that would cause little to no damage to the people and structure of a nation. I would do it in a fucking heartbeat.

If not, but I thought I could still do it and have things running in a reasonable time structure... bombs away.

If I had the power of being a one-man revolution, I would most certainly overthrow the government of the United States of America. Why would I do this, one might ask? It is really quite simple: for the lulz.

Imagine what would happen if a nation as influential and powerful as the United States suddenly ceased to exist as a unified country? I cannot even begin to predict all of the consequences! I think I'd coup China and the governments of Western Europe as well, just to throw a little more fuel onto the fire.

Cuba: I can't wait to party in Miami.

Miami's in Cuba now?

Venezuela: Hugo Chavez is a third-rate punk who is rapidly making himself a first-rate security menace. On top of that, he's fat and ugly.

Lol! As good a reason as any to get rid of him.

North Korea, as it's a shithole and there is a functioning and reasonably sane government next door to fill the power vacuum.

Yes, but only Fiji...South Pacific, here I come! :tongue:

The British govemrent, seeing as were now slowly delving into the pool of Fascism what with ID cards and that being introduced :/

I would love to topple the Berlusconi cabinet.

Why do it the hard way? Just overthrow the government that NM lives under, replace it with the exact same thing, but with the caveat that NM is put in a strait jacket and tossed into a box for the rest of his life. Prevention is better than cure.

If we're allowed those sorts of options, can I just have NM 'overthrown' when he attempts his first state seizure?

Not even necessary, just give Obama a replica of the One Ring and NM would overthrow himself into the Crack of Doom with it.

Well, I would get rid of Britain's current government and... hey I guess that would make me de facto leader yes? In that case, totalitarianism for all....or else xD

I'm only totalitarian when I am in charge, the rest of the time I'm neutral...

To answer my own question, yes i would...

Andorra, Islamic Republic of Iran, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Holy See. As to why, it's simple they are theocracies and in my book theocracy=bad.Not unless Andorra has already had a revolution very recently that didn't get into the news over here: If you're referring to the fact that the Bishop of Urgel is ex officio one of that country's two 'Princes' then bear in mind that the other one is the President of France, which isn't exactly a religious office... You do understand that a country can have a member of some church's hierarchy as a head-of-state without being an actual theocracy, don't you? (And, in fact, the constitution of Andorra was modified a few years ago to reduce the power of the 'princes' relative to the local democratically elected government...)

North Korea: Team America needs to be re-filmed as a documentary. The most evil regime on earth.
Iran: The second-most evil regime on earth. Islamo-Nazi theocracies have no right to live, ever.
Cuba: I can't wait to party in Miami.So far, so good...

Venezuela: Hugo Chavez is a third-rate punk who is rapidly making himself a first-rate security menace. On top of that, he's fat and ugly.Meh. He'll probably lose power soon enough, anyway, as a penalty for messing things up: Better not to turn him into a 'martyr'...

Burma: time to slaughter SLORC. And they had no right to impose their bogus new name on the country.
Sudan: Nimieri looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the scum running the place today.Agreed.
Saudi Arabia: 80 years of rule by the descendants of a desert bandit and his evil clerical allies is 80 years too long. Wahhabism must become one with the dinosaurs.But where's the replacement regime going to come from? There doesn't seem to be enough local support for any change, except perhaps for a change from monarchy+Wahhabism to Wahhabist "Islamo-Nazi" theocratic republic... Well, I suppose a lot of the local women might want a change, but they'd have neither the necessary experience to run the place properly nor much support amongst the men. I think that you'd probably end up having to commit genocide, and draw in a lot of hostile Muslim opponents from elsewhere in the process... Far better, in my opinion, to develop viable alternatives to Oil so that we can just let the area lapse back into an unimportant backwater...

I would have added Somalia except there's no government to overthrow there. So I would just recolonize the place and force conversion to Christianity.In the northern section of the former 'Somalia', the bit that was formerly a British colony, the local leaders set up a reasonably democratic government -- modelled on the one that we set up before leaving, which ran the country as an independent nation for a few months back then before confederating with the former Italian colony to its south -- back in the mid-'90s and this has lasted quite well: That area is now de facto a separate and viable nation under the name of 'Northern Somaliland', albeit one without international recognition, that could safely be left in peace. It's only the formerly-Italian area that is in (and is being) trouble: Recolonise that area, maybe...
But forcible conversion doesn't work, probably not even if you keep a MAJOR garrison there and try to wipe out all opposition by force (in which case see my previous comment about Saudi Arabia).

How about adding Zimbawe to the list?

North Korea, as it's a shithole and there is a functioning and reasonably sane government next door to fill the power vacuum.But maybe sane enough not to want the burden of having to sort out the mess that the North is in? Consider how much they'd have to raise taxation levels in the South to pay for fixing things, and what that -- even with the popularity boost that they'd probably get for ending the partition -- would do to their chances of re-election...

I suppose I might subvert the Welsh Assembly a little bit, or plot against the Tynwald.

The trouble with violent government change is that it's very rare that the replacement government is any better than the previous one and is usually worse. The only time it can work is if it's the expulsion of an external colonizing agent. Overthrow of dictatorships tends to work best when done using peaceful means - it gets you far more support both internationally and internally.

Ergo, I wouldn't presume to overthrow anyone elses government, I would however offer support to agent of internal reform (and government change should always be internally driven). If it was my own government that had gone too far, I would similarly push to change it through peaceful means - it may take a lot longer but in the long-run it's usually much more effective.

But maybe sane enough not to want the burden of having to sort out the mess that the North is in? Consider how much they'd have to raise taxation levels in the South to pay for fixing things, and what that -- even with the popularity boost that they'd probably get for ending the partition -- would do to their chances of re-election...

I know they aren't in any hurry to reunify the Korean peninsula for great justice any time soon, since it's certainly a huge mess, but would South Korea be able to avoid it if the North just crumbled and the opportunity fell into its lap? Apart from the fact that they're probably morally obliged to do so, it's official policy that Korea should be united at some stage and I don't see how they could back out of it.

if it wasn't democratically elected then yeh
i wouldve fought in the cuban revolition if i couldve
and the republican side of the spanish civil war
if a popular military movement against north korea started i would seriously consider helpin them out

First off, I'm unpleasantly surprised to hear how many people think they have the right, or claim the responsibility, to overthrow governments they don't actually live under.

If I were living in a state where the government was doing ghastly things, and there was no legal or institutional recourse, I'd feel justified in overthrowing the government. There are a number of countries around the world where I'd probably be dead by now if I'd had the bad luck to be born there.

Fortunately, I live in an imperfect but redeemable state where more legitimate avenues of resistance and reform are available.

In all seriousness what happens when those avenues don't exist? Can you think of a country in Africa that is not oppressed?

This is what the second amendment is all about.

I was going to answer 'no' to the original question. Then I read this.

So - yes - I would follow New Mitty around, re-overthrowing everything he'd overthrown.

Looks like he is going for Asia. Make sure he cashes in his card first. Damn, I love Risk.

Can you think of a country in Africa that is not oppressed?

Ghana, South Africa.

The trouble with violent government change is that it's very rare that the replacement government is any better than the previous one and is usually worse. The only time it can work is if it's the expulsion of an external colonizing agent.Or maybe if it's replacing a not-very-popular local despot, in a country that's never known democracy, with honest & efficient government...
(For example_) There were lots of Chinese flocking to live under British rule in Hong Kong, despite the lack of local self-rule during the colonial period, after all...

Or maybe if it's replacing a not-very-popular local despot, in a country that's never known democracy, with honest & efficient government...
(For example_) There were lots of Chinese flocking to live under British rule in Hong Kong, despite the lack of local self-rule during the colonial period, after all...

Again though that outcome is rare and not really a reason to attempt to replicate it - given the much higher chance it will fail.

Again though that outcome is rare and not really a reason to attempt to replicate it - given the much higher chance it will fail.I can think of other examples too, all from the history of the British Empire, but admittedly none of those are very recent...

badmouthing us all over the world and bowing in submission to Moslem despots.

Because not threatening to blow up anyone who won't tow the line is such a bad idea... :rolleyes:

So - yes - I would follow New Mitty around, re-overthrowing everything he'd overthrown.

Why do it the hard way? Just overthrow the government that NM lives under, replace it with the exact same thing, but with the caveat that NM is put in a strait jacket and tossed into a box for the rest of his life. Prevention is better than cure.

I'm honestly not sure which one of you I'd go with - pissing him off or declaring him insane. Decisions, decisions... :D

Not even necessary, just give Obama a replica of the One Ring and NM would overthrow himself into the Crack of Doom with it.

Gold.

Looks like he is going for Asia. Make sure he cashes in his card first. Damn, I love Risk.

I played it one time, against a couple of hardcore regulars. I have to admit, I wasn't much impressed - but I might have liked it more if it had lasted more than about 4 turns.

I played it one time, against a couple of hardcore regulars. I have to admit, I wasn't much impressed - but I might have liked it more if it had lasted more than about 4 turns.

I've never played Risk, although any game ending after so few turns would likely have a killer strategist involved.

Ghana, South Africa.

Yeah those are pretty good choices. 2 out of 47 on the continent. 4% if my math is right.

I've never played Risk, although any game ending after so few turns would likely have a killer strategist involved.

I think the technical term is "a pair of bastards" actually - who knocked the noob out of the game quick, so they could play 'properly'.

I think the technical term is "a pair of bastards" actually - who knocked the noob out of the game quick, so they could play 'properly'.

In that case, have them kiss your cheeks - and not the ones on your face either. :p (http://www.instantrimshot.com)

In all seriousness what happens when those avenues don't exist?

Ahem....


If I were living in a state where the government was doing ghastly things, and there was no legal or institutional recourse, I'd feel justified in overthrowing the government.


Can you think of a country in Africa that is not oppressed?


I can think of a few, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my point or yours.

I played it one time, against a couple of hardcore regulars. I have to admit, I wasn't much impressed - but I might have liked it more if it had lasted more than about 4 turns.

They actually have it for the PS2 where you can fight against Napoleon, Simon Bolivar, Catherine the Great and so on. Not the best video game ever and probably one of the longest to play or finish.

Ahem....





I can think of a few, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my point or yours.

There are a few in Africa but most have been dictatorship or worse for so long they can't remember when there weren't. The people need help rising up. We could be that help.

There are a few in Africa but most have been dictatorship or worse for so long they can't remember when there weren't. The people need help rising up. We could be that help.

If you'd spent five minutes reading about the Scramble for Africa, or how the Cold War played out in Africa, you'd know what an absurd statement that is.

If you'd spent five minutes reading about the Scramble for Africa, or how the Cold War played out in Africa, you'd know what an absurd statement that is.

Exactly. Outside intervention into Africa tends to result in thousands or more dead and a dictator in power, barring the outsider seizing power itself.

I wouldn't.

because MY views of how things should be run doesn't make it correct.

2, by Overthrowing, you are implying that I am taking over. and the last thing I want to be is the center of attention/power.

3, the hypocracy of some answers. "I would overthrow [whatever] because they are wrong and I am right."

Now, if I had the capability to overthrow a government, then I have the capability to extract those who want to leave a government and relocate them to somewhere they would want to be. hey, remove enough of the lower rungs and those on top would find themseves on the bottom rung.

I'd overthrow the ugly communist and theocratic dictatorships (North Korea, China, Vietnam, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.)

Only Brazil. :p

Cute. I wonder what is the purpose of that post. I also wonder if anyone would get any quarter for saying they'd throw a plane at the Empire State Building.

Snip.

Thankfully, most people would overthrow any government in which people who think like you took power. Indeed, America itself did it once, with the help of the UK.

Answering the OP:

I'd overthrow any government that sought to overthrow democratically-elected leaders in Latin America. And then I'd torture their leaders to death.

I'd overthrow any government that sought to overthrow democratically-elected leaders in Latin America. And then I'd torture their leaders to death.
Yeah nobody wants the current gang of wanna be totalitarians to be ousted from power.

From the Mussolini of the Caribbean, to Lula's or the Kirchners' mercantilism, every democratically elected head of state in latin America respects, not only their national constitutions, but their own personal sense of honor and republicanism to lead transparent governments and never defraud the people.

Any one. Kill all the governers hat resist me or are incompetent. Massacre all resistance. Then become a benevolent feudal based state with me in control incase Feudal lors try to fuck me.

Yeah nobody wants the current gang of wanna be totalitarians to be ousted from power.

From the Mussolini of the Caribbean, to Lula's or the Kirchners' mercantilism, every democratically elected head of state in latin America respects, not only their national constitutions, but their own personal sense of honor and republicanism to lead transparent governments and never defraud the people.

What's your point?

What's your point?
Just wondering why you want to defend the murderers, gangsters and robbers that occupy every presidential seat in Latin America.

Just wondering why you want to defend the murderers, gangsters and robbers that occupy every presidential seat in Latin America.

First of all, this piece of utter fucking CRAP is yours to prove. Not that you, or even someone more apt than yourself, would have any hope of ever proving it.

Second of all, I'm a Latin American, specifically Brazilian. If you have a problem with that, if you think you have a right to call any shots in MY country, by all means say so, but I will give you no quarter then!

First of all, this piece of utter fucking CRAP is yours to prove. Not that you, or even someone more apt than yourself, would have any hope of ever proving it.

Second of all, I'm a Latin American, specifically Brazilian. If you have a problem with that, if you think you have a right to call any shots in MY country, by all means say so, but I will give you no quarter then!

Quarter?

Answering the OP:

I'd overthrow any government that sought to overthrow democratically-elected leaders in Latin America. And then I'd torture their leaders to death.

So you'd out-Pinochet Pinochet.

Definitely a Nietzche moment here.

Quarter?

Or mercy, if you prefer.

So you'd out-Pinochet Pinochet.

Definitely a Nietzche moment here.

No, because I'd not torture any PEOPLE. Just leaders who attempted to overthrow democracy in Latin America.

No, because I'd not torture any PEOPLE. Just leaders who attempted to overthrow democracy in Latin America.

Means to an end, I see. Heikoku, I'm disappointed.

First of all, this piece of utter fucking CRAP is yours to prove. Not that you, or even someone more apt than yourself, would have any hope of ever proving it.

Second of all, I'm a Latin American, specifically Brazilian. If you have a problem with that, if you think you have a right to call any shots in MY country, by all means say so, but I will give you no quarter then!
If you are Brazilian it must be rather hard then to miss all that Lula is doing to prevent Brazil from growing. Of course what can be expected from a man who only caters to the rich from Sao-Paulo and the large land owners.

I don't know why where we're from has to do with this discussion but I am a Latin American too, an Argentine living in Bs. As.. I feel the burden of the Mercosur as much as you do.

Means to an end, I see. Heikoku, I'm disappointed.

Quite frankly? Yes. Because what LBJ did when he supported the coup here, what Nixon did when he supported the one in Chile caused MUCH more torture than anyone would ever be able to inflict on them, no matter how much those fuckers deserve it.

If you are Brazilian it must be rather hard then to miss all that Lula is doing to prevent Brazil from growing. Of course what can be expected from a man who only caters to the rich from Sao-Paulo and the large land owners.

I don't know why where we're from has to do with this discussion but I am a Latin American too, an Argentine living in Bs. As.. I feel the burden of the Mercosur as much as you do.

Eres argentino, verdad? Si lo sé. Entonces te lo digo que estás completamiente lejos de cualquiera cosa que se pueda llamar de realidad.

Quite frankly? Yes. Because what LBJ did when he supported the coup here, what Nixon did when he supported the one in Chile? They are BOTH responsible for MUCH more torture than anyone would ever be able to inflict on them, no matter how much those fuckers deserve it.
So torture is the answer to torture.

I see how valid your statements are.

Or mercy, if you prefer.

Still don't get it, but okay.

Eres argentino, verdad? Si lo sé. Entonces te lo digo que estás completamiente lejos de cualquiera cosa que se pueda llamar de realidad.
Now, now. This is a forum in English in a thread in English, so we should keep it that way for everyone. I don't see what evidence you have to validate your claims, other than to cite my apparent release from reality. Yet I wish to ask you were all this progress truly is? And I mean this "actual" mythical progress, not what the media divisions of our respective governments spew.

Eres argentino, verdad? Si lo sé. Entonces te lo digo que estás completamiente lejos de cualquiera cosa que se pueda llamar de realidad. Pero, si eres de Buenos Aires, y no pienso que seas, puedes entonces, al mucho menos, decirme cual el resultado de Cruzeiro vs. Estudiantes.

Portuguese? Spanish? Arabic?

Now, now. This is a forum in English in a thread in English, so we should keep it that way for everyone. I don't see what evidence you have to validate your claims, other than to cite my apparent release from reality. Yet I wish to ask you were all this progress truly is? And I mean this "actual" mythical progress, not what the media divisions of our respective governments spew.

Okay: You said "murderers", remember? Furthermore, I'm pretty sure you know the kind of crap Stroessner pulled.

Portuguese? Spanish? Arabic?

Spanish.

So torture is the answer to torture.

I see how valid your statements are.

I'd not torture ordinary Americans. Just LBJ, Nixon and so on. On live TV.

Okay: You said "murderers", remember? Furthermore, I'm pretty sure you know the kind of crap Stroessner pulled.
Yes I do, and I am equally opposed to what Stroessner did as I am to what dictators all over Latin America did as I am opposed to what they are doing now.


RoI, he posted in Spanish.

I'd not torture ordinary Americans. Just LBJ, Nixon and so on. On live TV.

Pay per view. You could make bare money.

Yes I do, and I am equally opposed to what Stroessner did as I am to what dictators all over Latin America did as I am opposed to what they are doing now.


RoI, he posted in Spanish.

I thought Brazilian's spoke Portuguese! How many languages can you speak Heikoku?

Pay per view. You could make bare money.

Mmm...

I thought Brazilian's spoke Portuguese! How many languages can you speak Heikoku?

Brazilians DO speak Portuguese, but I'm fluent in English (as shown repeatedly here) and semi-decent at Spanish.

Quite frankly? Yes. Because what LBJ did when he supported the coup here, what Nixon did when he supported the one in Chile caused MUCH more torture than anyone would ever be able to inflict on them, no matter how much those fuckers deserve it.
Torture is never justified, not as revenge, not as punishment, it is the worst action humanity has ever done. It is the worst thing anyone could ever do. Not even Stalin deserved torture.

Yes I do, and I am equally opposed to what Stroessner did as I am to what dictators all over Latin America did as I am opposed to what they are doing now.

The current governments aren't dictatorships.

The current governments aren't dictatorships.
Oppressive, ever-centralist, abusive of the system.

They're not dictatorships yet, indeed, on that point I agree with you.

Brazilians DO speak Portuguese, but I'm fluent in English (as shown repeatedly here) and semi-decent at Spanish.

Lucky bastard. I can barely speak one!

Torture is never justified, not as revenge, not as punishment, it is the worst action humanity has ever done. It is the worst thing anyone could ever do. Not even Stalin deserved torture.

Then you are a bigger man than I am. But bear in mind that your country was always a democracy, and had no outside interference trying to make it into a dictatorship.

Oppressive, ever-centralist, abusive of the system.

They're not dictatorships yet, indeed, on that point I agree with you.

If they ever do become dictatorships, I'll see you on the battlefield as we try to overthrow them, but no sooner.

Lucky bastard. I can barely speak one!

I'm a translator. Being at least bilingual sorta helps. :p

I'm a translator. Being at least bilingual sorta helps. :p

Ya think?

If they ever do become dictatorships, I'll see you on the battlefield as we try to overthrow them, but no sooner.
I'd say that limiting free speech, abusing funds, shady electoral practices, and plenty of un-transparent backroom deals are more than enough to get me rather angry.

They may hide behind the veil of semi-regular and "free" elections but when they are elected and do whatever they want...

I'm a translator. Being at least bilingual sorta helps. :p

Oh, fair enough. How long have you studied English? 'Cos as you've said before you have a better grasp of my language than I do.

I'd say that limiting free speech, abusing funds, shady electoral practices, and plenty of un-transparent backroom deals are more than enough to get me rather angry.

They may hide behind the veil of semi-regular and "free" elections but when they are elected and do whatever they want...

But to what exactly do you refer?

(What was the demonstration that made Cruzeiro late to face the Estudiantes about BTW?)

Oh, fair enough. How long have you studied English? 'Cos as you've said before you have a better grasp of my language than I do.

Well, about 10 years, I'd say. Plus, I talk to lots of English speakers online.

Ya think?

Yep. :p

Well, about 10 years, I'd say. Plus, I talk to lots of English speakers online.

That's about as long as I've been writing it. But I didn't really speak til I was 8.

But to what exactly do you refer?

(What was the demonstration that made Cruzeiro late to face the Estudiantes about BTW?)
No clue what that was about actually, held it back like 30 minutes.

No clue what that was about actually, held it back like 30 minutes.

I know. Watched the game. If I were Cruzeiro's coach I'd call them all morons on the interview following the game.

Yes, the ones who are standing in my way...

All governments should be overthrown. They are all corrupt organizations, run by corrupt civil servants. There isn't a single government in the world that should be allowed to exist.

I'd overthrow the US's government and make myself Emperor for lyfe.

Why?

I'm sick of all these puritan prudes ruining things for the rest of us.