NationStates Jolt Archive

I have an interesting questions for you people, and this honestly has perplexed me, since none of the pieces are fitting together for me. I've been studying and investigating the Paranormal since I was at least Middle School, and this recent outing I was on, there has been some event that's not adding up like it should be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/PAY5353/yhst-44793349007974_2044_7919504.jpg

This is an infrared thermometer, it can take atmospheric temperature and it has a laser on it to take temperature of a specific area. During the course of this investigation, one member of the team has gotten the spirit to drop the temperature from 51 to 40s in some area, and from 50s to 30s in others. It's always been on command.

So far the pictures I have reviewed seem to have shadow figures in it. There's two pictures that were taken back to back, both with flashes and yet, one picture has a very large shadow figure in it. There are another set of pictures where it alternates. One is normal, the other shadow figure, then the other one is normal etc. All of these were also taken back to back, with the same setting.

Now normally, this would be a cause for celebration, since not only did the spirit manipulate the thermostat, on command, but I have visual confirmation. Audio isn't done yet, I'm hoping to get that done tonight.

Now this is where I am stumped. There was no cold spot. One of the theory about Paranormal activities is that it takes energy to manifest anything. If a spirit makes a sound, if it makes a shadow, if it manipulate objects, it takes energy. One of the theory is that when a spirit does use energy, then it leaves a cold spot. Now it's possible that I tried to feel the wrong area, and maybe the guy with the thermostat was in the cold spot, but I dunno.

I'm asking NSG for help, alongside with the Paranormal community, is that 1. I want a balanced view on this, and 2. I'm probably the only person on this forum who believes in the Paranormal, so it's kinda nice for someone who is of a different mindset from mine to take a look at my work.

So, has anyone ever been on a Paranormal investigation?

things can't "take" energy. Energy doesn't just get "used up". It just transforms from one state into another. If something caused the kinetic energy in one area to fall, you'd have to see a manifestation in some other way, in a way that conforms to physical laws. Simply "making a shadow" doesn't really count.

I have an interesting questions for you people, and this honestly has perplexed me, since none of the pieces are fitting together for me. I've been studying and investigating the Paranormal since I was at least Middle School, and this recent outing I was on, there has been some event that's not adding up like it should be.

This is an infrared thermometer, it can take atmospheric temperature and it has a laser on it to take temperature of a specific area. During the course of this investigation, one member of the team has gotten the spirit to drop the temperature from 51 to 40s in some area, and from 50s to 30s in others. It's always been on command.

So far the pictures I have reviewed seem to have shadow figures in it. There's two pictures that were taken back to back, both with flashes and yet, one picture has a very large shadow figure in it. There are another set of pictures where it alternates. One is normal, the other shadow figure, then the other one is normal etc. All of these were also taken back to back, with the same setting.

Now normally, this would be a cause for celebration, since not only did the spirit manipulate the thermostat, on command, but I have visual confirmation. Audio isn't done yet, I'm hoping to get that done tonight.

Now this is where I am stumped. There was no cold spot. One of the theory about Paranormal activities is that it takes energy to manifest anything. If a spirit makes a sound, if it makes a shadow, if it manipulate objects, it takes energy. One of the theory is that when a spirit does use energy, then it leaves a cold spot. Now it's possible that I tried to feel the wrong area, and maybe the guy with the thermostat was in the cold spot, but I dunno.

I'm asking NSG for help, alongside with the Paranormal community, is that 1. I want a balanced view on this, and 2. I'm probably the only person on this forum who believes in the Paranormal, so it's kinda nice for someone who is of a different mindset from mine to take a look at my work.

So, has anyone ever been on a Paranormal investigation?

Solution: there is no "spirit" manipulating anything. The "spirit" manipulating things on command is the guy doing the commanding or someone who wants it to appear like there is a spirit so they are executing the commands. i.e. maybe someone's fiddling with the dial to make it look like the temperature is dropping when it really isn't.

Also, I don't get how this cold spot business is supposed to work... what, "ghosts" rob the particles in the air of kinetic energy and this is more believable than "there's a draft/some air coming in from outside"?

An aside: it really pisses me off when the discovery channel has people running around with these sorts of things going to "haunted" houses. This isn't teaching anyone anything other than nonsense, which is contrary to the discovery channel's general objectives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCHFVTQKqdQ

I heard they're making a ghostbusters 3, with the original cast. That's good cause, like, Bill Murray has to have NO money left.

I heard they're making a ghostbusters 3, with the original cast. That's good cause, like, Bill Murray has to have NO money left.

cocaine god way of saying you have too much money.- Robin Williams.

I heard they're making a ghostbusters 3, with the original cast. That's good cause, like, Bill Murray has to have NO money left.

He spent it all on a fruitless venture involvinig toasters and some kind of pink goop. It would have worked, but he was beaten to the punch by the Tamagochi.

cocaine god way of saying you have too much money.

-Robin Williams.

-Robin Williams.

thx i forgot who said that.

I have never been on a paranormal investigation. Nor have I investigated UFOs. I think that whether you see ghosts or UFOs depends more on what you want to see than on what is actually there.

I have an interesting questions for you people, and this honestly has perplexed me, since none of the pieces are fitting together for me. I've been studying and investigating the Paranormal since I was at least Middle School, and this recent outing I was on, there has been some event that's not adding up like it should be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/PAY5353/yhst-44793349007974_2044_7919504.jpg

This is an infrared thermometer, it can take atmospheric temperature and it has a laser on it to take temperature of a specific area. During the course of this investigation, one member of the team has gotten the spirit to drop the temperature from 51 to 40s in some area, and from 50s to 30s in others. It's always been on command.

So far the pictures I have reviewed seem to have shadow figures in it. There's two pictures that were taken back to back, both with flashes and yet, one picture has a very large shadow figure in it. There are another set of pictures where it alternates. One is normal, the other shadow figure, then the other one is normal etc. All of these were also taken back to back, with the same setting.

Now normally, this would be a cause for celebration, since not only did the spirit manipulate the thermostat, on command, but I have visual confirmation. Audio isn't done yet, I'm hoping to get that done tonight.

Now this is where I am stumped. There was no cold spot. One of the theory about Paranormal activities is that it takes energy to manifest anything. If a spirit makes a sound, if it makes a shadow, if it manipulate objects, it takes energy. One of the theory is that when a spirit does use energy, then it leaves a cold spot. Now it's possible that I tried to feel the wrong area, and maybe the guy with the thermostat was in the cold spot, but I dunno.

I'm asking NSG for help, alongside with the Paranormal community, is that 1. I want a balanced view on this, and 2. I'm probably the only person on this forum who believes in the Paranormal, so it's kinda nice for someone who is of a different mindset from mine to take a look at my work.

So, has anyone ever been on a Paranormal investigation?

Never been on one. You wouldn't want me on one, because I'd ruin all your fun.

I've used those kinds of IR thermometers, though. They're only reliable on stationary objects, at fairly close range. They are useless as a means of measuring an ambient temperature, and aren't super reliable at reading even the temperature of the same vessel - which is why you always cross-check. (this is a problem with what we call in the industry, 'precision' - rather than 'accuracy' - the number can be very 'accurate', but doesn't replicate reliably).

Call TAPS?

So, has anyone ever been on a Paranormal investigation?
I once drunk a bottle of vodka. Does that count?

I don't think energy works like that. That's like... expecting my body to get colder when I exercise. It seems. I don't know. I want to know how the laser takes temperatures. Instead though I will go to bed.

EDIT: Okay, that sounds dumb. Not how the laser reads temperatures, I get that, but how it takes the temperature of a certain "area". I mean... bear with me, my mind is exhausted, but lasers go a long way, right? If you point it at something solid, that makes sense, but how do you point it at an "area" and take the temperature? Where does it stop? God, English is not my friend right now...

An aside: it really pisses me off when the discovery channel has people running around with these sorts of things going to "haunted" houses. This isn't teaching anyone anything other than nonsense, which is contrary to the discovery channel's general objectives.

The Discovery Channel (along with The Learning Channel) fell victim to the Reality TV Bug a long time ago...both are now useless.

Stick with The Science Channel or Investigation Discovery, and possibly Animal Planet, if you're going to bother with channels from Discovery Communications.

Call TAPS?

Would if this was my property.

I fear NSG has failed you. We will simply not talk about a subject we are not experts in. :tongue: We would like to think it is because we do not believe in ghosts, but we debate about the Bible regularly, though we are not religious.

I fear NSG has failed you. We will simply not talk about a subject we are not experts in. :tongue: We would like to think it is because we do not believe in ghosts, but we debate about the Bible regularly, though we are not religious.

Given access to more of the raw data, I could probably put something together. If I actually witnessed the events, firsthand, I could probably put together a fairly watertight case.

Which is why I've never really been tempted to get involved... and why I'm unlikely to ever be headhunted for such an option.

What kind of ghost-hunter wants a 'professional skeptic'?

Listen... do you smell something?

Can we see the pictures, just out of interest?

You're a grown man. There is no such thing as the paranormal. Stop pretending there is.

You're a grown man. There is no such thing as the paranormal. Stop pretending there is.

You're actually a young boy, and there is no such thing as the normal. :eek:

I've been on a few... But I'm not sure I could give you any useful debunking ideas without seeing the actual material. Secondhand debunking? Kinda like secondhand eye witness...

You're actually a young boy, and there is no such thing as the normal. :eek:

Wasn't sure when forty seven became a young boy.

Of course if you follow E=Mc2 we know that in order for something to manifiest, energy must be taken from somewhere else. There are more forms of energy than just heat, next time tell them to check the batteries of the infrared thermometer. Another interesting thing people have reported is their batteries being drained from whatever device they have.

For the skeptic side, if the person holding it was the one who is making the requests, they should have someone else hold it from now on. Perhaps they are purposely messing with it to freak people out. In fact to be even more sure have people switch holding it several times during the investigation.

Wilgrove,

You might be placing too much on a series of unlinked hypothesii. It's the idea that visual manifestation, temperature manipulation, and EVPs are evidence of paranormal activity. However, there's no one-to-one transfer or corelloration between all of those hypothesii, and that's what they are. Each idea is an hypothesis. They all have supporting data, but not a wealth of it and not enough to be individually observed and repeated by every researcher and investigator.

However that doesn't disprove them either. It's a mistake to think that science is in the business of proving anything. Science is a changing thing based on our current understanding, a framework for future investigation. Our understanding of the universe has changed as our methods and tools and philosophies have improved.

Perhaps, there is no significant and lasting cold spot because there needs not be one. Perhaps the energy supply needed to manifest the evidence you collected is quite low and covered by the on-command energy fluctuations you recorded. If the entity could store energy like a capacitor, the entity could just build a store while it was responding with you so it didn't need to create one massive, noticeable cold spot.

After all, what is the actual temperature fluctuation need for a person to notice it on skin contact?

Since the thermometer is a laser type, it will read the temp of what it hits, not the air.

So that being said, he was probably aiming at an outside wall, then an inside, then the first floor (basements are cold). That would account for the discrepancies.

I have an interesting questions for you people, and this honestly has perplexed me, since none of the pieces are fitting together for me. I've been studying and investigating the Paranormal since I was at least Middle School, and this recent outing I was on, there has been some event that's not adding up like it should be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/PAY5353/yhst-44793349007974_2044_7919504.jpg

This is an infrared thermometer, it can take atmospheric temperature and it has a laser on it to take temperature of a specific area. During the course of this investigation, one member of the team has gotten the spirit to drop the temperature from 51 to 40s in some area, and from 50s to 30s in others. It's always been on command.

So far the pictures I have reviewed seem to have shadow figures in it. There's two pictures that were taken back to back, both with flashes and yet, one picture has a very large shadow figure in it. There are another set of pictures where it alternates. One is normal, the other shadow figure, then the other one is normal etc. All of these were also taken back to back, with the same setting.

Now normally, this would be a cause for celebration, since not only did the spirit manipulate the thermostat, on command, but I have visual confirmation. Audio isn't done yet, I'm hoping to get that done tonight.

Now this is where I am stumped. There was no cold spot. One of the theory about Paranormal activities is that it takes energy to manifest anything. If a spirit makes a sound, if it makes a shadow, if it manipulate objects, it takes energy. One of the theory is that when a spirit does use energy, then it leaves a cold spot. Now it's possible that I tried to feel the wrong area, and maybe the guy with the thermostat was in the cold spot, but I dunno.

I'm asking NSG for help, alongside with the Paranormal community, is that 1. I want a balanced view on this, and 2. I'm probably the only person on this forum who believes in the Paranormal, so it's kinda nice for someone who is of a different mindset from mine to take a look at my work.

So, has anyone ever been on a Paranormal investigation?

Yeah I love this stuff to I must admit. There also another photographic phenomenon that needs to be explained. I don't know if any of you have seen them but it usually come when filming a graveyard. You get this blob of energy, plasma or whatever. I would say will o wisp but that would be a mythological term. What the heck is that?

Wilgrove,

You might be placing too much on a series of unlinked hypothesii. It's the idea that visual manifestation, temperature manipulation, and EVPs are evidence of paranormal activity. However, there's no one-to-one transfer or corelloration between all of those hypothesii, and that's what they are. Each idea is an hypothesis. They all have supporting data, but not a wealth of it and not enough to be individually observed and repeated by every researcher and investigator.

However that doesn't disprove them either. It's a mistake to think that science is in the business of proving anything. Science is a changing thing based on our current understanding, a framework for future investigation. Our understanding of the universe has changed as our methods and tools and philosophies have improved.

Perhaps, there is no significant and lasting cold spot because there needs not be one. Perhaps the energy supply needed to manifest the evidence you collected is quite low and covered by the on-command energy fluctuations you recorded. If the entity could store energy like a capacitor, the entity could just build a store while it was responding with you so it didn't need to create one massive, noticeable cold spot.

After all, what is the actual temperature fluctuation need for a person to notice it on skin contact?

Yeah but let's face it there is a lot of weird stuff out there that we can not explain. I think that is what he is getting at. We like to think we have it all figured out and that there is a scientific explanation for everything. Well I am listening so are a bunch of other people.


I put it up to scientific arrogance. The idea that we can explain everything.

Given access to more of the raw data, I could probably put something together. If I actually witnessed the events, firsthand, I could probably put together a fairly watertight case.

Which is why I've never really been tempted to get involved... and why I'm unlikely to ever be headhunted for such an option.

What kind of ghost-hunter wants a 'professional skeptic'?

Are you kidding, we all do. Sign up for crying out loud. Maybe you are missing your calling? X-Files needs both the Scully and the Mulder to work. I would sign up for computer work, in a heart beat.

A lot of time, dust motes and/or mist reflecting the shape of the lens aperture when the flash goes off account for "orbs".

I heard they're making a ghostbusters 3, with the original cast. That's good cause, like, Bill Murray has to have NO money left.

So many good lines. Awesome movie. I can't wait, so movie just never get old.

A lot of time, dust motes and/or mist reflecting the shape of the lens aperture when the flash goes off account for "orbs".

Orbs. Thank you! Sounds good to me.

Can't ghosts drain magic points in order to power their abilities? No, wait, that's Slime Knights I'm thinking of.

Can't ghosts drain magic points in order to power their abilities? No, wait, that's Slime Knights I'm thinking of.

Protoplasm not that I have seen any I am just saying. Ghost are great in that regard.

Orbs. Thank you! Sounds good to me.
I have also "caught" Vortexes.... by putting my camera on long exposure and waving a penlight in front of it. Or by taking a picture in a moving car at night and deliberately shaking the camera.

;) Just saying.

Protoplasm not that I have seen any I am just saying. Ghost are great in that regard.

Protoplasm is the stuff inside a biological cell.

I have also "caught" Vortexes.... by putting my camera on long exposure and waving a penlight in front of it. Or by taking a picture in a moving car at night and deliberately shaking the camera.

;) Just saying.


Great we have a camera person. We got Ghostbusters right here on NSG.

I will stay in anyone haunted house anytime. I can bring recording devices. You name it.

What they don't do on those show is control their environment very well. Heating ducts can really mess with a thermometer, especially if it forced air. So a 5 or 10 degree drop in ambient temperature could be explained as easily a stiff wind blowing on a poorly insulated house.


Okay it could be a spirit as well I will not discount it out right but you need to control your enviroment.

Noise can be caused by a house settling, plumbing, squeaky floor boards contracting in the colder temperature. A laser themometer is about an accurate device as you are going to get. However maybe it is too accurate in this case was it a ghost or normal air currents in a house?

That is just off the top of my head.

Which is why I'll watch Ghost Hunters. They do show that worn-out washers cause water to turn on, that unshielded electrical boxes can cause feelings of dread and of being watched, that bangs can be air in the pipes, or loose pipes slamming around when the heater kicks on, that strange lights can be reflections of headlights from the outside, that orbs can be dust motes or water particles caught in a camera flash, that insulation does get flung out of central air ducts.... that thermal images that seem compelling are often their own reflections and/or nesting animals in a wall....

It is interesting when they show something they say they can't explain.