NationStates Jolt Archive


The End of Philosophy

VirginiaCooper
07-04-2009, 22:11
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/opinion/07Brooks.html?_r=1

Today, many psychologists, cognitive scientists and even philosophers embrace a different view of morality. In this view, moral thinking is more like aesthetics. As we look around the world, we are constantly evaluating what we see. Seeing and evaluating are not two separate processes. They are linked and basically simultaneous.

As Steven Quartz of the California Institute of Technology said during a recent discussion of ethics sponsored by the John Templeton Foundation, “Our brain is computing value at every fraction of a second. Everything that we look at, we form an implicit preference. Some of those make it into our awareness; some of them remain at the level of our unconscious, but ... what our brain is for, what our brain has evolved for, is to find what is of value in our environment.”
Moral judgments are like that. They are rapid intuitive decisions and involve the emotion-processing parts of the brain. Most of us make snap moral judgments about what feels fair or not, or what feels good or not. We start doing this when we are babies, before we have language. And even as adults, we often can’t explain to ourselves why something feels wrong.
The question then becomes: What shapes moral emotions in the first place? The answer has long been evolution, but in recent years there’s an increasing appreciation that evolution isn’t just about competition. It’s also about cooperation within groups. Like bees, humans have long lived or died based on their ability to divide labor, help each other and stand together in the face of common threats. Many of our moral emotions and intuitions reflect that history. We don’t just care about our individual rights, or even the rights of other individuals. We also care about loyalty, respect, traditions, religions. We are all the descendents of successful cooperators.
The rise and now dominance of this emotional approach to morality is an epochal change. It challenges all sorts of traditions. It challenges the bookish way philosophy is conceived by most people. It challenges the Talmudic tradition, with its hyper-rational scrutiny of texts. It challenges the new atheists, who see themselves involved in a war of reason against faith and who have an unwarranted faith in the power of pure reason and in the purity of their own reasoning.

Finally, it should also challenge the very scientists who study morality. They’re good at explaining how people make judgments about harm and fairness, but they still struggle to explain the feelings of awe, transcendence, patriotism, joy and self-sacrifice, which are not ancillary to most people’s moral experiences, but central. The evolutionary approach also leads many scientists to neglect the concept of individual responsibility and makes it hard for them to appreciate that most people struggle toward goodness, not as a means, but as an end in itself.

An interesting article I came across in the New York Times.
TJHairball
07-04-2009, 22:13
Definitely not the end of philosophy.
Tsaraine
07-04-2009, 22:21
This is no more the end of philosophy than the end of the Soviet Union was the end of history.
Hydesland
07-04-2009, 22:24
The 'modern approaches' presented in the article, have practically been known for about 100 years.
[NS]Rolling squid
07-04-2009, 22:47
This is no more the end of philosophy than the end of the Soviet Union was the end of history.

Well, it would be, if the soviet union had actually died. It's all Lies I tell you, LIES!!! :mad:



On topic, I concur with above stated opinions. Philosophy will adapt, as most things do.
Sgt Toomey
07-04-2009, 23:55
Guy says "Surely, this is a weapon that will end war for all time."

Other guy says, "Amazing, what do you call it?"

Guy says, "A crossbow."
Free Soviets
08-04-2009, 00:57
The 'modern approaches' presented in the article, have practically been known for about 100 years.

i just glanced at it, but it looked like emotivist non-cog stuff, yeah?
Hydesland
08-04-2009, 01:02
i just glanced at it, but it looked like emotivist non-cog stuff, yeah?

Yep, pretty much, and how evolution influences our most basic desires and what we intuitively value (well duh). The only thing that is relatively new is the neurological specifics, but that isn't really particularly relevant to any ethical problems.
Conserative Morality
08-04-2009, 01:08
Guy says "Surely, this is a weapon that will end war for all time."

Other guy says, "Amazing, what do you call it?"

Guy says, "A crossbow."

What are you trying to suggest? The Crossbow IS the ultimate weapon. The nations of the world simply are too cheap to train their soldiers properly in the use of one.
Cameroi
08-04-2009, 01:08
a culture of thoughtlessness may not be the end of philosophy, but it might well be the beginning of the end of life on earth. not by offending anything, but by physical self destruction of the means of continuing to exist.

nature does not accept symbolic value for debts payable, or anything else, and i don't accept the letting of blood, other then by carnivores who could not otherwise survive.
Free Soviets
08-04-2009, 17:12
hilzoy's take (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_04/017648.php) (and why aren't you all reading hilzoy already, eh?):

I've been off reading John Rawls' undergraduate thesis, and so I only just realized that David Brooks has announced "The End Of Philosophy". (Parenthetical note: what is it with these conservatives and their desire to kill off the humanities? Fukuyama and the End of History, now Brooks ... can the Death of Inner Asian and Altaic Studies be far behind?) Brooks' column sounded pretty scary, and it got even scarier once I realized that he wasn't talking about philosophy in general, but about ethics in particular.

That's my field! I don't want it to die!

Luckily, the reports of its demise have been greatly exaggerated...
Hydesland
08-04-2009, 17:20
hilzoy's take (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_04/017648.php) (and why aren't you all reading hilzoy already, eh?):

Pretty much in complete agreement with this guy.
Gift-of-god
08-04-2009, 17:33
i just glanced at it, but it looked like emotivist non-cog stuff, yeah?

What is "emotivist non-cog stuff'?
Meargra
08-04-2009, 17:41
philosophy is really just a way of thinking so how can it die?
Psychotic Mongooses
08-04-2009, 17:45
He's not sick is he? I just saw him on here a few days ago... :(



....what?
Chumblywumbly
08-04-2009, 17:45
Some philosophical problems in the end of philosophy:

You don’t have to decide if it’s disgusting. You just know. You don’t have to decide if a landscape is beautiful. You just know.

And even as adults, we often can’t explain to ourselves why something feels wrong.

In other words, reasoning comes later and is often guided by the emotions that preceded it.

People are not discrete units coolly formulating moral arguments. They link themselves together into communities and networks of mutual influence.

There are times, often the most important moments in our lives, when in fact we do use reason to override moral intuitions, and often those reasons — along with new intuitions — come from our friends.
Sounds like someone needs to read some David Hume.

Moreover, this:

Finally, it should also challenge the very scientists who study morality.
is just a highly confused statement. Scientists don't study morality itself, at least not in the way that philosophers do, they study the components and processes of the brain that enable us to have moral capacity.

Of course, neurology, cognitive science, et al, informs philosophy to a great degree in fantastically useful ways, but the fairly common claim that Brooks seems to be rehashing -- figure out the structure/processes of the brain and we figure out morality -- makes no sense.

If we highlighted and explained all the components and processes of the brain that allow us to think of mathematics, we wouldn't be at the End of Maths.

What is "emotivist non-cog stuff'?
Emotivist non-cognitivism.

See here (http://www.seop.leeds.ac.uk/entries/moral-cognitivism/).
Hydesland
08-04-2009, 17:46
What is "emotivist non-cog stuff'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-cognitivism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotivism
Free Soviets
08-04-2009, 17:49
What is "emotivist non-cog stuff'?

emotivism is the idea that ethical sentences are not propositions, but rather expressions of emotional response. so when i say "murder is wrong", according to the emotivists that isn't a proposition that could be true or false, but is actually me just saying "eww, murder. boo!!!!". and the more strongly i hold some moral position, the more exclamation marks i get to add to the boo or hooray.

the non-cog part is non-cognitivism, which is a broader class of metaethical theories which hold something similar to the above, that moral sentences are not genuine propositions. this is opposed to cognitivist theories which hold that moral sentences do express propositions and therefore can be true or false (though in some cognitivist theories, all of the possible moral sentences are false).
Free Soviets
08-04-2009, 17:53
What is "emotivist non-cog stuff'?
...
...
...

go team philosophy!
Hydesland
08-04-2009, 18:01
Is that all David Brooks has? I thought there would be something more substantial to end philosophy with than that. :P
Chumblywumbly
08-04-2009, 18:02
go team philosophy!
Transform and combine into ultra-philosopher mech!
Ring of Isengard
08-04-2009, 18:16
I never even knew it was there to start with.
Gift-of-god
08-04-2009, 18:38
Transform and combine into ultra-philosopher mech!

Thanks, ultra-philosopher mech!