NationStates Jolt Archive

(and not in a good way?)

Forgive me if this comes out bloggy. It's meant more to set an example of what I mean because I'm not sure I can phrase the question well without it.

My sons, who live with their mother about 100 miles from here, have indicated a desire to move in with me instead. My older son especially, who is 16 and is preparing for college, wants to go to the U of Maryland nearby for Engineering and tuition would be a lot cheaper if he re-establishes himself as a Maryland resident.

My ex doesn't want to let go and has admitted that she's just being clingy, and has apparently enlisted her boyfriend to try and convince my sons to stay up there. He's promised them money, gifts, even going so far as to offer my older son his car (once he buys a new one) if he agrees to remain with is mother.

My sons both responded in basically the same way: "Blow it out your ass."

He then apparently has tried shaking their relationship with me. "Well you know, if your father really loved you more than he hates your other, he'd never have left you, and wouldn't be trying to get you now."

My sons (and my older daughter) responded in basically the same way: "Seriously... blow it out your ass."

And finally, even grandma on her side has tried to tell my oldest son "don't do this to your mother."

He didn't tell her to blow it out her ass but I betcha he was thinking it.

Now, I'm incredibly proud of my kids for resisting these underhanded tactics, but the problem is this crap takes its toll and will result in them resenting their mother, the boyfriend, and the rest. I wish I could do something to mitigate or stop it, but I have no power to do so.

So i have to suck it up and deal with the feelings of powerlessness. Sure, the kids will probably win this and be able to move if they want to, but in the meantime they're going to be guilt tripped and made to suffer for their "disloyalty."

And I don't deal well with helplessness. Now that I've given an example of what kind of helplessness I mean, I ask you: Am I alone or do people commonly have to deal with that sort of thing? And how do you cope with it?

Don't be too hard on her. It's remarkably difficult to fight the image of your children as possessions instead of individuals.

whats the court ordered custody situation ? Don't know about Maryland(lovely state though, especially Frederick), but in Texas children over the age of 12 can pretty much decide where they want to live, if no issues with abuse exist.

My understanding is if their is no court ordered custody arrangement then your kids can just come over and move in (or pick them up on the last day of school ETC.). with their age you should win any court battle.

*note not a lawyer*

Also realize that you are probably being used as a pawn as well. 16 year old kids who dont feel like following rules suddenly become hey we will just go live with dad instead.

I remember you making a couple other threads about your situation...

I would say you were far from powerless, its just that you've already exerted control over the situation, by being a decent enough person that your kids don't think you're a douche. Sounds like things will sort themselves out soon enough. If your ex and her boytoy want to make themselves look like asses, well I guess that you can't really prevent, and why should you want to if they really are? There's no reason for children, at their age, to think their parents are perfect.

Also realize that you are probably being used as a pawn as well. 16 year old kids who dont feel like following rules suddenly become hey we will just go live with dad instead.

I remember those days. It was fun being a teenager in a divorced household.

My feelings. Well you can't be held responsible for the mistakes or underhand tatics of others.

You care for your kids mental well being, that seems clear to me, the unfortunate truth is that people all people regardless of age have ownership over their minds(excepting menatl health issues) and so your children will be effected or not by your ex's behavouir, and there is in fact very little you can do about that, except maybe talk to them about it.

If mother really cared about them as people instead of bargaining chips, she'd see the logic in your one son establishing Maryland residency. If boyfriend is of the mind that monetary incentives will work, then suggest he pay the difference in tuition between in-state and out-of-state for your son to attend Maryland.

If mother and boyfriend and grammy are willing to sacrifice a long-term relationship with your kids in order to retain control over them, then so be it. It is they who will suffer when your kids want nothing to do with mother and boyfriend as adults.

I thought this was a kinky thread... :(

<snip>

He's 16.
At that age, I had already taken my father to court for not paying for me and my two brothers and wasn't talking to half of my family.

Life goes on.

Also realize that you are probably being used as a pawn as well. 16 year old kids who dont feel like following rules suddenly become hey we will just go live with dad instead.

I could see my 13 year old doing that, but my 16 year old has actually been struggling with the decision because he knows he will upset his mom if he moves, and that's a powerful force. I've been gently trying to get him to decide (one way or the other) because if he does want to move in with me then I need to start making arrangements. If not, then that's fine. I've been very careful to make sure he understands that should he choose to stay where he is, I won't be angry with him or hold it against him in any way. All I care about is that the choice be his.

whats the court ordered custody situation ? Don't know about Maryland(lovely state though, especially Frederick), but in Texas children over the age of 12 can pretty much decide where they want to live, if no issues with abuse exist.

My understanding is if their is no court ordered custody arrangement then your kids can just come over and move in (or pick them up on the last day of school ETC.). with their age you should win any court battle.

*note not a lawyer*

She and I have joint legal custody, with physical custody being with her. (My understanding of that is that I qualify equally as a legal guardian but our agreement is that they reside there.)

I remember you making a couple other threads about your situation...

I would say you were far from powerless, its just that you've already exerted control over the situation, by being a decent enough person that your kids don't think you're a douche. Sounds like things will sort themselves out soon enough. If your ex and her boytoy want to make themselves look like asses, well I guess that you can't really prevent, and why should you want to if they really are? There's no reason for children, at their age, to think their parents are perfect.
If mother really cared about them as people instead of bargaining chips, she'd see the logic in your one son establishing Maryland residency. If boyfriend is of the mind that monetary incentives will work, then suggest he pay the difference in tuition between in-state and out-of-state for your son to attend Maryland.

If mother and boyfriend and grammy are willing to sacrifice a long-term relationship with your kids in order to retain control over them, then so be it. It is they who will suffer when your kids want nothing to do with mother and boyfriend as adults.

My issue is this... While I admit there's a part of me that is tickled to watch my ex and her boyfriend implode themselves, I know that it would be so much better for the kids if they didn't.

I thought this was a kinky thread... :(

I'll think of a good one later and post it just to make it up to ya ;)

Anyways... My coping mechanism at the moment is to talk to them frequently and keep reassuring them that no matter what they've got someone they can talk to, anytime, about any subject. And they do call me often when they need to. It makes me feel good and that helps... But it doesn't make me want to rip that guy's spine out through his ass any less...

Dude, after all the bullshit little tactics and guilt tripping they tried to pull, its very noble of you that you give a rat's ass about how they feel about their mom and her boyfriend.

I would not be so noble.

As an aside, your kids probably realize their mom will just miss them, but they know you miss them too, and when they live with you they can still talk to their mom/see her. I dont think they'll resent her

If they resent the boyfriend...with all do respect, who cares?

But to answer the question, when my hands are tied, I lie back and enjoy it.

Come on. You know that pun had to be made. ;)

Dude, after all the bullshit little tactics and guilt tripping they tried to pull, its very noble of you that you give a rat's ass about how they feel about their mom and her boyfriend.

I would not be so noble.

As an aside, your kids probably realize their mom will just miss them, but they know you miss them too, and when they live with you they can still talk to their mom/see her. I dont think they'll resent her

If they resent the boyfriend...with all do respect, who cares?

I don't care about the boyfriend beyond his potential to hurt the kids. It would be better, yes, if he weren't a jackass because it puts them in a position to feel as if they have to take sides, and that's never a good thing.

But to answer the question, when my hands are tied, I lie back and enjoy it.

Come on. You know that pun had to be made. ;)

Zing!

Both of my parents inadvertently did this to my while growing up. I am still messed up from it, in the sense that even now, as a 20 something year old, I do what I can to avoid "hurting" my parents feelings, by avoiding spending too much time with one over the other. Its caused a lot of instability in my life. :(

Edit: What I was trying to add to this conversation is to make sure you kids feelings are first and foremost. Have a talk with the ex about putting them in this position. And whatever you do, don't play the good dad/ bad mom (or have her do the reverse) in front of the kids. It only makes the situation all the worse.

I don't care about the boyfriend beyond his potential to hurt the kids. It would be better, yes, if he weren't a jackass because it puts them in a position to feel as if they have to take sides, and that's never a good thing.



Zing!

I still think its really good of you to still care about your kids feelings towards their mom. Most ex husbands would not be so understanding.

Both of my parents inadvertently did this to my while growing up. I am still messed up from it, in the sense that even now, as a 20 something year old, I do what I can to avoid "hurting" my parents feelings, by avoiding spending too much time with one over the other. Its caused a lot of instability in my life. :(

Edit: What I was trying to add to this conversation is to make sure you kids feelings are first and foremost. Have a talk with the ex about putting them in this position. And whatever you do, don't play the good dad/ bad mom (or have her do the reverse) in front of the kids. It only makes the situation all the worse.

You are absolutely right.

When my parents split I became a pawn, which is one of the reasons I refused to engage in a protracted custody battle in the first place. That's one of the reasons it stings to hear someone suggest that I didn't fight for them because I didn't love them enough... because it's exactly the opposite. For the first year after the splitup I cried on my way home from dropping them off, or when my ex picked them up. This son of a bitch has no idea what he's talking about.

But anyway... my ex did delight in bashing me to the kids in the hope that she'd draw them to her. All it did was hurt them and build resentment so one evening I asked her to a meeting where we all sat down to talk about it. All she wanted was for the kids to hate me. She couldn't fathom why they didn't, and eventually stormed out in frustration.

So ended the first and last time we attempted that.

And again that's where I feel powerless. Normally you'd think if all parties have the childrens' best interests in mind then even if it got angry somehow, some way, the kids would benefit from hashing it out... but that failed.

I still think its really good of you to still care about your kids feelings towards their mom. Most ex husbands would not be so understanding.

When my parents split up my mother launched a PR campaign to get me to hate my dad if she possibly could. She's one of those people to whom loyalty is how you express love, and in order for her to feel like I loved her I had to hate my dad. So time spent with mom was all about my dad and what an evil man he was. No kid wants to feel that way about their parent.

Meanwhile, I noticed that my father RARELY spoke ill of my mom in front of me. Time spent with my dad was time spent with my dad, and it was about us, and the things we could do, talk about, whatever. It was much more comfortable, much more enjoyable.

So I found that despite my mom's efforts, I preferred my time with my dad because that was where I could feel normal, and not a pawn or the product of a violently broken home.

So when my own marriage failed I remembered well how it was for me, and I applied what I'd learned. Simple.

And it was only a couple years ago I finally found the balls to tell my mother I was sick of hearing her bash my dad. To her credit, she has ceased.

I wish my ex would listen to my kids when they tell her that...

NeoB, you're a lot more caring than most Ex-Husbands would be (And I know quite a few). I can only hope, pray, and repeat that this all works out all right.

That being said, you have good taste in states. :p

NeoB, you're a lot more caring than most Ex-Husbands would be (And I know quite a few). I can only hope, pray, and repeat that this all works out all right.

That being said, you have good taste in states. :p

Thank you, thank you very much, neighbor :D

My issue is this... While I admit there's a part of me that is tickled to watch my ex and her boyfriend implode themselves, I know that it would be so much better for the kids if they didn't.

Unfortunately, I really don't think there's much you can do about it. I'm sure my mother didn't want my brother and I to see our father lose nearly everything to alcoholism, but she also couldn't control him and wasn't going to try and cut him out of our lives completely unless that's what we wanted.

Other situations I can think of are ones in which friends are doing something that is making them miserable and won't stop doing it. All I can really do is be there for them and, if they want it, express my opinion of their actions. I can't make them stop doing it and I can't make them stop being miserable about it.

If you're being there for your kids and you are trying to avoid making the same mistake that their mother is, I'd say you're doing what you can.

When my parents split I became a pawn, which is one of the reasons I refused to engage in a protracted custody battle in the first place. That's one of the reasons it stings to hear someone suggest that I didn't fight for them because I didn't love them enough... because it's exactly the opposite. For the first year after the splitup I cried on my way home from dropping them off, or when my ex picked them up. This son of a bitch has no idea what he's talking about.

One of my friends was once the child in this same sort of situation. In order to avoid a custody battle, her father didn't dispute her mother's bid for physical custody. Eventually, both children decided they preferred to live with him anyways (and even then, for a while, he kept paying the child support payments to their mother, who still "technically" had custody).


Both of my parents inadvertently did this to my while growing up. I am still messed up from it, in the sense that even now, as a 20 something year old, I do what I can to avoid "hurting" my parents feelings, by avoiding spending too much time with one over the other. Its caused a lot of instability in my life.

To be fair, I think this happens even if neither parent does anything to feed it. One of the most stressful things I had to figure out for my wedding was how to include both parents. Now, neither would have been angry at me either way, I'm sure, but I didn't want to hurt my father's feelings by excluding him and I didn't want to hurt my mother's by including him too much. Hopefully, I struck a good balance there.

Thank you, thank you very much, neighbor :D

Heh, we're only two hours away. Closer than any other Generalite we know. :tongue:

Heh, we're only two hours away. Closer than any other Generalite we know. :tongue:

Play any Warhammer, by chance? :D

Both of my parents inadvertently did this to my while growing up. I am still messed up from it, in the sense that even now, as a 20 something year old, I do what I can to avoid "hurting" my parents feelings, by avoiding spending too much time with one over the other. Its caused a lot of instability in my life. :(

Edit: What I was trying to add to this conversation is to make sure you kids feelings are first and foremost. Have a talk with the ex about putting them in this position. And whatever you do, don't play the good dad/ bad mom (or have her do the reverse) in front of the kids. It only makes the situation all the worse.

that's why i don't visit home much, except during holidays and during the pre divided times.