NationStates Jolt Archive

(CNN) -- A U.S. immigration judge on Monday revoked a stay of deportation granted to suspected Nazi war criminal John Demjanjuk, paving the way for the retired auto worker's possible deportation as soon as Wednesday for trial in Germany.


John Demjanjuk appears in court in Jerusalem in 1987 on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

"It is the opinion of the court that the motion to reopen has been misfiled with the Immigration Court," wrote Judge Wayne Iskra in Arlington, Virginia. "Consequently, this court's order to stay respondent's removal is revoked effective April 8, 2009."

The judge noted that "jurisdiction over the motion to reopen lies with the board." Both the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and the Board of Immigration Appeals have issued final orders in the case.

Demjanjuk's attorney, John Broadley, did not immediately return telephone calls. He had argued that his 89-year-old client was in such ill health that his deportation and trial in Germany would be tantamount to torture.

Demjanjuk, a Ukrainian, is accused of involvement during World War II in killings at Sobibor, a Nazi German death camp in Poland. He denies the allegations.

German authorities issued their arrest warrant for Demjanjuk on March 10, accusing him of being an accessory to 29,000 counts of murder as a guard at the death camp from March to September 1943.

Judge stays deportation
German authorities studied an identification card provided by the U.S. Office of Special Investigations and concluded it was genuine before issuing the warrant, a statement said.

Demjanjuk has been fighting charges of Nazi war crimes for more than two decades. He was extradited from the United States to Israel, where he was convicted in 1986 of being "Ivan the Terrible," a guard at the notorious Treblinka extermination camp. Israeli courts overturned the conviction on appeal, and he returned to the United States.

The United States filed new charges against him in 1999, again alleging that he had been a concentration camp guard. He was stripped of U.S. citizenship and has been awaiting deportation since 2005 despite fighting his case all the way to the Supreme Court.

Demjanjuk, who lives with his wife in Cleveland, Ohio, has said he fought in the Soviet army and later was a prisoner of war held by the Germans

Source (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/06/demjanjuk.deportation/)

So what does NSG think? Would deportation and all it entails be "torture."
Does it matter that the Israel government has already tried and released the guy? Should Germany let the past be the past and stop harassing people on their last days on this planet? What would happen to Demjanjuk if convicted? He can't very well raise anyone from the dead nor would his death or inprisonment bring them back
Witty comments or remarks are also welcomed...

He can't very well raise anyone from the dead nor would his death or inprisonment bring them back

This argument gets tossed out whenever capital punishment gets brought up, and it's just missing the point.

Yes, we know that criminal justice and necromancy are two different things, and yes that's intentional.

No capital punishment.

This argument gets tossed out whenever capital punishment gets brought up, and it's just missing the point.

Yes, we know that criminal justice and necromancy are two different things, and yes that's intentional.

true . . .though somehow I think the point (usually but not in this case) is that once you do the whole death penalty thing if your wrong theres no way to take back that mistake. . . .personnaly I'm not a fan of capital punishment for that reason alone.

I think everything after the first conviction in Israel was overturned was torture. Let's face it, if the Israelis can't convict a Nazi war criminal, then there's probably a good dose of reasonable doubt hanging around.

Isn't double Jeopardy since he was already tried and convicted on the same crimes in 1986?

point . . .very very good point lol

Isn't double Jeopardy since he was already tried and convicted on the same crimes in 1986?
Does double jeopardy apply outside the United States of America?

true . . .though somehow I think the point (usually but not in this case) is that once you do the whole death penalty thing if your wrong theres no way to take back that mistake. . . .personnaly I'm not a fan of capital punishment for that reason alone.

If you're wrong you can't take back years spent in prison either. Courts need to be sure that convictions are beyond a reasonable doubt and that appeals can be made if there is question about it. We can't design a prison system that punishes rightly-convicted criminals while simultaneously going easy on the wrongly-convicted ones.

So what does NSG think? Would deportation and all it entails be "torture."
No.
Does it matter that the Israel government has already tried and released the guy?
No.
Should Germany let the past be the past and stop harassing people on their last days on this planet?
Awww, poor Nazis, being harrassed.:rolleyes:

Does double jeopardy apply outside the United States of America?

I'd imagine that's one of the foundations of both Civil and Common law. Not to mention it should be a valid means to stop an extradition from the US.

I don't know... Evidence for all this seems rather vague, unless they're not telling us something, which is entirely likely. How did they get evidence against him? or are they just going through the recent trials and assuming that they had something to go on? I think this requires a little more digging...

Isn't double Jeopardy since he was already tried and convicted on the same crimes in 1986?

Different charges in a different country.

Different charges in a different country.

War crimes and crimes against humanity under the Nazis seems to be the same charge. They even say he is the same prison guard.
Not to mention the alleged crimes took place in Poland.
Seems Israel or Poland would be the ones to try this case, and Israel already has. Reading his Wiki it seems like the guy never set foot in Germany proper.

Reading more his conviction was reversed when his alleged former coworkers at the prison(from KGB files, now dead I assume) said he was the wrong guy.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/30/world/acquittal-jerusalem-israel-court-sets-demjanjuk-free-but-he-now-without-country.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Seems to be a travesty of justice for the US to allow extradition or Germany to seek trial in the first place.

War crimes and crimes against humanity under the Nazis seems to be the same charge. They even say he is the same prison guard.
Not to mention the alleged crimes took place in Poland.
Seems Israel or Poland would be the ones to try this case, and Israel already has. Reading his Wiki it seems like the guy never set foot in Germany proper.

Just because someone has been found innocent of one murder charge they can still be charged with other murders. I don't see why it would be any different with war crimes - if he is charged with a different instance of a war crime it is not double jeopardy.

Just because someone has been found innocent of one murder charge they can still be charged with other murders. I don't see why it would be any different with war crimes - if he is charged with a different instance of a war crime it is not double jeopardy.

The charge in Israel was mass murder, crimes against humanity, not observing the sabbath, and a few other things.
The charge in Germany is murder of 22,000, genocide, killing Jews on Sunday, and other things.

Schematics aside he was charged with the same crimes. The major difference now is the witnesses who got him acquitted last time are now dead.

The charge in Israel was mass murder, crimes against humanity, not observing the sabbath, and a few other things.
The charge in Germany is murder of 22,000, genocide, killing Jews on Sunday, and other things.

Schematics aside he was charged with the same crimes. The major difference now is the witnesses who got him acquitted last time are now dead.

Not exactly, the Germans say they have new evidence.

true . . .though somehow I think the point (usually but not in this case) is that once you do the whole death penalty thing if your wrong theres no way to take back that mistake. . . .personnaly I'm not a fan of capital punishment for that reason alone.

Oh and do you honestly believe that with all the appeals the criminal makes and all the evidence that we have these days that all the people on death row are innocent.

Not exactly, the Germans say they have new evidence.

More likely his defense evidence has died of old age.
Its irrelevant anyways we could most certainly convict OJ for murder today, still illegal to try him for it again.

More likely his defense evidence has died of old age.
Its irrelevant anyways we could most certainly convict OJ for murder today, still illegal to try him for it again.

As I pointed out earlier they aren't trying him again for the same thing. The Israelis tried him for being a guard known as Ivan the Terrible at Treblinka Camp. The German's want to put him on trial for being a guard involved in war crimes at Sobibor Camp.

As I pointed out earlier they aren't trying him again for the same thing.

Yes they are. war crimes during WWII in Poland is war crimes during WWII in Poland. Unless he committed a different set of them during WWI.
All the German government has done is find a different group of 22,000 people he might have killed.
The trial is over weather he was the guard at a concentration camp, the Israelis have already said he is not.

Yes they are. war crimes during WWII in Poland is war crimes during WWII in Poland. Unless he committed a different set of them during WWI.
All the German government has done is find a different group of 22,000 people he might have killed.
The trial is over weather he was the guard at a concentration camp, the Israelis have already said he is not.

No they aren't. As I understand it the Germans accept that he is not Ivan the Terrible, which is who the Israelis identified him as. If Adolf Eichmann had been mistakenly tried in Israel on war crimes charges as Adolf Hitler, and found not guilty that would not mean he could not be tried as a correctly identified Adolf Eichmann.

So what does NSG think? Would deportation and all it entails be "torture."
Not torture, no. But it could be inhuman treatment.

Does it matter that the Israel government has already tried and released the guy?
Not since he's being prosecuted for a different crime.


Should Germany let the past be the past and stop harassing people on their last days on this planet?
I see no reason why there should be statutes of limitations on war crimes and crimes against humanity.

What would happen to Demjanjuk if convicted?
He'd probably get a commuted sentence due to old age and health.

He can't very well raise anyone from the dead nor would his death or inprisonment bring them back
Completely irrelevant.

No capital punishment.
Germany doesn't have the death penalty.

Oh and do you honestly believe that with all the appeals the criminal makes and all the evidence that we have these days that all the people on death row are innocent.
I know I do.

Yes they are. war crimes during WWII in Poland is war crimes during WWII in Poland. Unless he committed a different set of them during WWI.
All the German government has done is find a different group of 22,000 people he might have killed.
The trial is over weather he was the guard at a concentration camp, the Israelis have already said he is not.
You are, of course, wrong. He's being prosecuted for a different war crime this time around.

Rambhutan is correct in his description.

Surely there has to be some sort of statute of limitations. We are talking about something that happened 64 years ago.

Awww, poor Nazis, being harrassed.:rolleyes:

Proof of this? After all Israel overturned his conviction.

Surely there has to be some sort of statute of limitations. We are talking about something that happened 64 years ago.

On war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity? Why?

Oh and do you honestly believe that with all the appeals the criminal makes and all the evidence that we have these days that all the people on death row are innocent.

Yup. The Innocence Project has managed to clear the name of 232 such individuals by means of DNA.