NationStates Jolt Archive

Still about the quake in central Italy: what do you think should be the absolute priority to avoid so many deaths in quakes?

I'll be posting a poll with some options.
I would love to hear expecially by NSGer living in California and Japan, which are quite state-of-the-art about anti-seismic procedures and standards.

Women, children and goldfish.

Women, children and beer.

Fixed

Extremely well placed and secure electrical and gas connections seems to be the main rule in Japan, to avoid the fires that, in massive earthquakes, are one of the main dangers.

Of course, buildings should be constructed in a secure and safe way, but that is such a no brainer...

Extremely well placed and secure electrical and gas connections seems to be the main rule in Japan, to avoid the fires that, in massive earthquakes, are one of the main dangers.

Of course, buildings should be constructed in a secure and safe way, but that is such a no brainer...

Of course.
I'd want to hear about the absolute-priority-this-one-pwns-all, if any.

edit. Oh wait. I just remembered that it was Poseidon, not Ephestus, the god of earthquakes. Mixed it with volcanoes, maybe because I'd love to see Bush, Berluska and Ratzi pushed into Etna. ;)

Given the increasing population of the world we have no choice but to live in earthquake zones. So we need to take the joint approach of building regulations and researching early warning systems.

Enforcing strict anti-seismic standards in new buildings, revamp older ones

...followed by....

Jailing the responsibles for not enforcing building standards

Fixed

Alright, what about women, children and goldfish swimming in beer.;)

I would go with FEMA or some other such agency. They can do wonders if properly motivated.

Here in NZ there's a very real danger of earthquakes, since we are on the Ring of Fire. Well, up in Auckland it's volcanoes, but that's what you get for building a city on an active volcanic field. Christchurch however is at a danger of thixotrophic collapse should a big one hit - the entire floodplain will turn into slurry and our houses will sink into the ground - and Wellington will just slide off the hillsides and into the harbour.

The main causes of earthquake fatalities seem to be housing quality and population density; since you can't easily change the latter without China-style building new cities from scratch, the former is more feasible. Unless of course your city just got flattened and you need to rebuild it from scratch!

Still about the quake in central Italy: what do you think should be the absolute priority to avoid so many deaths in quakes?

I'll be posting a poll with some options.
I would love to hear expecially by NSGer living in California and Japan, which are quite state-of-the-art about anti-seismic procedures and standards.

Heh.

Osaka, Japan here.

I was here during the 95 Great Hanshin/Kobe quake that killed more than 4000 people. It was a failure on so many levels that I really need a multiple choice poll...

Building standards in Japan remain a joke, as seen by the 2005 architectual scandal in which a major architect falsified data re earthquakes.

And official responses to disasters of any sort are embarassing. The organized crime syndicates were handing out aid to earthquake victems in Kobe before the SDF, and the government turned down aid from a US navy hospital ship in the harbor because the medics didn't have Japanese medical licesnses.... (>_<)

I would go with FEMA or some other such agency. They can do wonders if properly motivated.

After Katrina? Nope, no trust in FEMA.

Here in NZ there's a very real danger of earthquakes, since we are on the Ring of Fire. Well, up in Auckland it's volcanoes, but that's what you get for building a city on an active volcanic field. Christchurch however is at a danger of thixotrophic collapse should a big one hit - the entire floodplain will turn into slurry and our houses will sink into the ground - and Wellington will just slide off the hillsides and into the harbour.

The main causes of earthquake fatalities seem to be housing quality and population density; since you can't easily change the latter without China-style building new cities from scratch, the former is more feasible. Unless of course your city just got flattened and you need to rebuild it from scratch!

Heh. Knowing how much geothermal activity there is in NZ, I still don't associate Kiwiland w/ quakes like I should...

It might be impossible to detect an Earthquake since its a slip of seismic plates.
Maybe measuring the pressure in the plates...

Of the Pope, Bush(Dubya) or Berlusconi, I'd sacrifice the Pope. Why? Steady supply.

There's only one Bush and once he's gone, the fun is over. Same with Berlusconi. But if you toss the Pope into a volcano, they'll appoint a new Pope. So you never run out. :)

Of the Pope, Bush(Dubya) or Berlusconi, I'd sacrifice the Pope. Why? Steady supply.

There's only one Bush and once he's gone, the fun is over. Same with Berlusconi. But if you toss the Pope into a volcano, they'll appoint a new Pope. So you never run out. :)

Heheheh... In that light, I'll nominate the US President. 4 years and then off to that "Hawaiian vacation" with Ms. Pele...

More Poseidon worship, so there are fewer earthquakes - this will also improve the safety of ships, so it's win-win.

Having a strong warning system in part with a education program that keeps civilians aware of what they should do. Additionally, buildings should be built to a certain standards for the region, and older buildings retrofitted to withstand the conditions of the environment.

Alright, what about women, children and goldfish swimming in beer.;)

that's a lotta beer to have women, children and Goldfish swim in it...

Heh.

Osaka, Japan here.

I was here during the 95 Great Hanshin/Kobe quake that killed more than 4000 people. It was a failure on so many levels that I really need a multiple choice poll...

Building standards in Japan remain a joke, as seen by the 2005 architectual scandal in which a major architect falsified data re earthquakes.


Ugh. Somewhat, the general picture we Italians have of the Japanese, as ultra-organised super-efficient high-tech-addicted people with a sense of honour and honesty to the point of suicide has been... let's say... a bit marred...

:( Sigh, not even Japan is safe from criminal idiocy.

Option #8. :D

:( Sigh, not even Japan is safe from criminal idiocy.
Sorry, Tokyo lives in fear of the next Great Kanto Quake and the projected death toll from that is expected to be in the thousands if not hundreds of thousands.

That said, Japan did end up with a lot of egg on its face due to the Kobe quake and the responce to it. The last few quakes, while smaller on scale, have been better mannaged and Japan DID send a lot of people to study at San Francisco to learn what went well and what didn't during the '89 quake there.

But Dai's right, you still hear about how so and so's hotel chain isn't anywhere near the codes because no one bothered to take a look at the actual building.

Developing Superman's ability to fly, to simply elevate above said shaken earth. Also deals with that nasty thing called traffic and greenhouse gases from cars.

Declaring Earth quakes zones uninhabitable and removing the people.

Given the increasing population of the world we have no choice but to live in earthquake zones. So we need to take the joint approach of building regulations and researching early warning systems.
This^^. Also, I would advise making all three of the poll's listed sacrifices ASAP!!

I live in the Northeastern US (Massachusetts). To the perennial surprise of many who live here, there's a fault line running through the Applachian Mountains that occasionally shifts. It goes all the way from Canada down to New York City. I live in Boston. Boston is built primarily of 200-year-old brick buildings. We are doomed. I learned how doomed by watching a documentary about anti-seismic engineering that talked about the earthquake risk in the Pacific Northwest of the USA. Seattle is also a primarily brick city, and this engineer talked at length about how brick buildings come apart like lego blocks in earthquakes. One really good shake, and there won't be a Boston anymore. We have had small tremors in this city recently. Yet I see new buildings being put up, made of brick, and I think, "Are they kidding me? Brick? Seriously?"

I live in Manila, the Philippines. Perhaps the most important thing we need to do here is to create and enforce strict anti-seismic standards in new buildings and revamp older ones. I don't think this is being done properly here in this country. Given the massive amount of corruption in this country, it is easy to bypass any regulations. Disaster management in this country, sadly, is primarily reactive. Even then, it would not be enough in the event of a massive disaster as an earthquake.

Manila has an active fault line just to the east (Marikina fault). That fault produces a big earthquake every 400-500 years, the last one was in 1611, which destroyed Manila Cathedral and the ancient city...

Ugh. Somewhat, the general picture we Italians have of the Japanese, as ultra-organised super-efficient high-tech-addicted people with a sense of honour and honesty to the point of suicide has been... let's say... a bit marred...

:( Sigh, not even Japan is safe from criminal idiocy.

That's a topic for a whole other thread... ;)

But specifically on earthquakes, see if you can dig up Peter Hatfield's 60 Seconds That Will Change the World.

Much of Tokyo's built on reclaimed land subject to liquefication. The 1964 Niigata earthquake (http://www.ce.washington.edu/~liquefaction/html/quakes/niigata/niigata.html) showed the danger of that.

The construction industry's rife with corruption, so how many buildings are actually up to code is questionable. And even what's built to code may still be dangerous. Every year there're news stories about how some (usually entertainment) business has a fire and a bunch of people die due to blocked or insufficient exits, for example.

Sorry, Tokyo lives in fear of the next Great Kanto Quake and the projected death toll from that is expected to be in the thousands if not hundreds of thousands.

That said, Japan did end up with a lot of egg on its face due to the Kobe quake and the responce to it. The last few quakes, while smaller on scale, have been better mannaged and Japan DID send a lot of people to study at San Francisco to learn what went well and what didn't during the '89 quake there.

But Dai's right, you still hear about how so and so's hotel chain isn't anywhere near the codes because no one bothered to take a look at the actual building.

Hundreds of thousands easy.

I'd want to hear about the absolute-priority-this-one-pwns-all, if any.

Well, in that case, I'd say an efficient civilian emergency system.

You can build anti-seismic all you like, but if it's "safe" up to a 7.5, I'll bet you anything your next quake is an 8.0.

You can educate people, but when the quake hits, panic will grip many of them, reducing the effectiveness.

It's not the best option, the ideal is a good combination of all three, but if your talking about the absolute-priority-this-one-pwns-all...it's a good emergency service response.

Declaring Earth quakes zones uninhabitable and removing the people.

Problem: about 40% of the italian territory is highly seismic.

Of the Pope, Bush(Dubya) or Berlusconi, I'd sacrifice the Pope. Why? Steady supply.

There's only one Bush and once he's gone, the fun is over. Same with Berlusconi. But if you toss the Pope into a volcano, they'll appoint a new Pope. So you never run out. :)
Hmm, Berlusconi has shown a remarkable aptitude to come back no matter what you throw at him, so who knows...

As for top priority: Enforcing strict anti-seismic standards in new buildings, revamp older ones.