NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5105926/Nato-60th-summit-in-Strasbourg-marred-by-street-battles-and-arson.html


Buildings were set on fire and running battles were fought between protesters and riot police in the streets of Strasbourg, where Barack Obama and world leaders have gathered for a Nato summit.

Anarchists and demonstrators set fires at a hotel, a disused border post and a tourism office around Strasbourg's Pont de l'Europe, a bridge that joins France and Germany.

Police fired volleys of teargas to try to stop groups of violent French and German protesters joining forces to rampage across the city.

Masked youths threw petrol bombs, smashed windows and ransacked shops, forcing police to retreat until riot officers could regroup to seize back control.

Eyewitnesses saw black-clad protesters storm the nearby Ibis hotel, pilfering alcohol from its bar and setting the building ablaze.

"The hotel and the other buildings were completely engulfed in flames," said a resident of the city who witnessed the mayhem.

"The police had completely lost control and the firemen could not put out the flames. It was only when the police sent a squad which fired tear gas rounds that the blaze could be tackled."

As fires blazed, German police officers turned water cannon that they had been using to douse protesters onto the flames.

Many of the protesters - described as a "small army" by one police officer - were members of the sinister Black Bloc group, a notorious anarchist gang.

The violence followed a huge Franco-German police operation, costing 150 million euros (£132 million).

Hundreds of anti-Nato activists have been arrested in the past two days.

President Nicolas Sarkozy had instructed police that he did not want to see any signs of protest during events to mark Nato's 60th anniversary.

But the wives of world leaders, including Michelle Obama and Carla Bruni, were forced to cancel a visit to a cancer hospice because of the widespread rioting.

And, as Nato leaders departed on Saturday night plumes of smoke could be seen rising from many points across the city.


So Anit-NATO riots in Strasbourg. Can we start sharpening our guillotines yet or am I just being optimistic?

Sounds like fun. I'm sorry I missed it.

Ah, good to see the billions of dollars spent on military deployments to Europe are paying off.

Of course, it's rather amusing considering NATO was the primary reason why the entire continent didn't fall behind the Iron Curtain after WWII...they wouldn't be able to protest, let alone riot under the rule of the Soviets. Ah well, that was a long time ago; I think it's time we let them take care of their own countries.

So Anit-NATO riots in Strasbourg. Can we start sharpening our guillotines yet or am I just being optimistic?

They were just doing well against French riot police.
Hold optimism until they do well against NATO forces.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5105926/Nato-60th-summit-in-Strasbourg-marred-by-street-battles-and-arson.html



So Anit-NATO riots in Strasbourg. Can we start sharpening our guillotines yet or am I just being optimistic?

Optimism, I'm afraid. The French have become used to large sections of their cities being looted, pillaged, and on fire in the last few years.

Renaults are surprisingly flammable.

Optimism, I'm afraid. The French have become used to large sections of their cities being looted, pillaged, and on fire in the last few years.

Renaults are surprisingly flammable.

You figured they would just make their cities flame retardant by now.

I don't even know that they did all that well. I'm just impressed that a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys can be bothered to hold a riot when all most of us can't be bothered to get off the sofa and make a cheese sandwich.

Also, Strasbourg isn't all that far from where I am. So this is almost local news for me...

Rioting anarchists are kind of funny. What better way to convince people they don't need a government than to burn down the city?

Rioting anarchists are kind of funny. What better way to convince people they don't need a government than to burn down the city?

Ahh the argument that I need a government to protect me from the guy the anarchist who wants to burn down my city.

The anarchist is quick to counter they wouldn't need to burn down the city if their was no government.

Here's Obama's speech at the Summit. Not very interesting actually - he sounds better when he's talking about nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncxzf00IbF8

Here's video of the riots, in french of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT6bBawg1mc

Ahh the argument that I need a government to protect me from the guy the anarchist who wants to burn down my city.

The anarchist is quick to counter they wouldn't need to burn down the city if their was no government.

right, maybe the anarchist wouldn't (although I doubt it, it seems to me that they'd be the sort of people to get upset over anything, and just like this excuse to go on a rampage), but theres certainly others who could, and would.

Such as people who get upset that the government doesn't do enough- just think how pissed they'd be without a government at all.

right, maybe the anarchist wouldn't (although I doubt it, it seems to me that they'd be the sort of people to get upset over anything, and just like this excuse to go on a rampage), but theres certainly others who could, and would.
You just need to make sure you don't do anything that makes it look like you might be trying to form a government, or will begin chucking petrol bottles at you and your city.

Such as people who get upset that the government doesn't do enough- just think how pissed they'd be without a government at all.

We will chuck petrol bottles at them and their city so you don't have to worry about them, unless you live in the same city.

You just need to make sure you don't do anything that makes it look like you might be trying to form a government, or will begin chucking petrol bottles at you and your city.


We will chuck petrol bottles at them and their city so you don't have to worry about them, unless you live in the same city.

I feel safer already
:p

right, maybe the anarchist wouldn't (although I doubt it, it seems to me that they'd be the sort of people to get upset over anything, and just like this excuse to go on a rampage), but theres certainly others who could, and would.

Such as people who get upset that the government doesn't do enough- just think how pissed they'd be without a government at all.

Well the 'excuse' is pretty clear. They don't want to be a part of NATO and their new president has pledged full support. ... that likely means France in Afghanistan.

I feel safer already
:p

See anarchy works.

Se anarchy works.

Ordo ad Chao.

What exactly are they protesting against?

Well the 'excuse' is pretty clear. They don't want to be a part of NATO and their new president has pledged full support. ... that likely means France in Afghanistan.

I don't have a problem, per se with their view, until it gets to the point of destroying other's property- at which point it just seems like you're (in the general sense of course) being a dick, and don't really have a concern for whatever cause you are proclaiming.

I don't have a problem, per se with their view, until it gets to the point of destroying other's property- at which point it just seems like you're (in the general sense of course) being a dick, and don't really have a concern for whatever cause you are proclaiming.

Hey I wasn't included in this meelee.

However, if I were I definitely would have been among those which raided the liquor bar at the hotel. IMHO looting is a more productive form of activity than burning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5105926/Nato-60th-summit-in-Strasbourg-marred-by-street-battles-and-arson.html



So Anit-NATO riots in Strasbourg. Can we start sharpening our guillotines yet or am I just being optimistic?

Maybe you're just joking, but I'm tired of wankers who seem positively eager to see blood run in the streets.:mad:

Well the 'excuse' is pretty clear. They don't want to be a part of NATO and their new president has pledged full support. ... that likely means France in Afghanistan.

France has been part of NATO since its inception and France is already in Afghanistan.

Hey I wasn't included in this melee.

I know... I tried to make my understanding of that clear, but I'm afraid I mucked it up a little. *shrugs*

However, if I were I definitely would have been among those which raided the liquor bar at the hotel. IMHO looting is a more productive form of activity than burning.

Is this to say that you wish you were part of it, or am I taking a joke seriously?

I was thinking...shouldn't the French police be one of the world's best at crowd control and anti-riot measures? And yet, they never seem to get a grip on anything and things always get out of hand there.

Maybe if Straßburg was were it's supposed to be, there wouldn't be a problem. ;)

France has been part of NATO since its inception.

False.


...
It is a radical shift from the approach of President Jacques Chirac, and previous French leaders, who objected to closer links between the two Brussels-based organisations since President Charles de Gaulle abruptly pulled France out of Nato in 1966 and ejected the Nato military headquarters from French soil.

In the past decade, France, with on-off support from Britain, has sought to build an EU defence and security policy in parallel with Nato. Paris is now saying that the two organisations should work hand in hand.
...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-moves-closer-to-rejoining-nato-396463.html

Maybe you're just joking, but I'm tired of wankers who seem positively eager to see blood run in the streets.:mad:

You mean average US 'mericans?

I was thinking...shouldn't the French police be one of the world's best at crowd control and anti-riot measures? And yet, they never seem to get a grip on anything and things always get out of hand there.

Maybe if Straßburg was were it's supposed to be, there wouldn't be a problem. ;)

The french riot control method is avoid confrontation and try to keep the riots in one area until they run out of steam. The US method is there will be order now Hippies. n

You mean average US 'mericans?

Lots' of people of various political persuations, though probably more the Right wing in the US right now, since they're out of power and have been convinced that the President is a Muslim=Terrorist/Socialist=Communist/Anti-Christ.

False.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-moves-closer-to-rejoining-nato-396463.html

Lemnitzer-Aillert Agreements.

They were out in name only.

Lots' of people of various political persuations, though probably more the Right wing in the US right now, since they're out of power and have been convinced that the President is a Muslim=Terrorist/Socialist=Communist/Anti-Christ.

Dems can be pretty blood thirsty too. You just have to convince them that human rights are being violated in the countries where our oil pipeline is supposed to go.

Dems can be pretty blood thirsty too. You just have to convince them that human rights are being violated in the countries where our oil pipeline is supposed to go.

Ahh the Reagan method.

Lemnitzer-Aillert Agreements.

They were out in name only.

Considering the U-turn in policy towards cooperation with the US that goes along with it I think the distinction is significant.

Ahh the Reagan method.

You want to use lazers?

Considering the U-turn in policy towards cooperation with the US that goes along with it I think the distinction is significant.

Draft those rioting youths into the Foreign Legion and send them to Afghanistan. That way France get peace and order and gets to help the US in Afghanistan.

You want to use lazers?

For the initial dredge work of the oil pipeline yes use the space based lazers.

Draft those rioting youths into the Foreign Legion and send them to Afghanistan. That way France get peace and order and gets to help the US in Afghanistan.

You sir have a gift for irony.

Considering the U-turn in policy towards cooperation with the US that goes along with it I think the distinction is significant.

All that has changed in real terms is that Sarkozy has realised the importance of good relations with the US. The military changes that go along with moving back to full membership are fairly meaningless.

Looking at the fact that most of Europe is already in NATO and the continuing moves to bring Europe closer together these would have come anyway, Sarkozy is just smart enough to jump before France is pushed and make friends with the biggest kid on the street along the way.

Dems can be pretty blood thirsty too. You just have to convince them that human rights are being violated in the countries where our oil pipeline is supposed to go.

Actually, if you're referring to Iraq, the Democrats probably went along with that both because they were lied to about 911 and WMDs, and didn't want to act "unpatriotic" in the post-911 environment. A period of considerable wussiness from our loyal opposition, and I have never forgiven them for their cowardess.;)

However, I never denied that Democrats can be blood thirsty. I merely observed that revolutionary attitudes currently seem more prevalent among the Right, which is probably due to being out of power and being run by fundimentalists and criminals who unashamedly use race baiting and various forms of incitement and fear-mongering. If the circumstances were reversed, and the Left was discredited and run by fanatics, it might give me equal cause for disgust.

For the initial dredge work of the oil pipeline yes use the space based lazers.

I see you lack the ambition of Ronie Raygun.

With enough lazers we can do anything.

Actually, if you're referring to Iraq, the Democrats probably went along with that both because they were lied to about 911 and WMDs, and didn't want to act "unpatriotic" in the post-911 environment. A period of considerable wussiness from our loyal opposition, and I have never forgiven them for their cowardess.;)

However, I never denied that Democrats can be blood thirsty. I merely observed that revolutionary attitudes currently seem more prevalent among the Right, which is probably due to being out of power and being run by fundimentalists and criminals who unashamedly use race baiting and various forms of incitement and fear-mongering. If the circumstances were reversed, and the Left was discredited and run by fanatics, it might give me equal cause for disgust.

It took you 8 years to figure out you we're being lied to about 911 and WMD's. How long will it take you to figure out that you're being lied to right now?

Send in the scoops. Soylent Green needs more feedstock.

That's the only thing those punks and losers are good for.

It took you 8 years to figure out you we're being lied to about 911 and WMD's. How long will it take you to figure out that you're being lied to right now?

We are obviously just in Afghanistan to get the heads of state the sweet Afgani Opium.

We are obviously just in Afghanistan to get the heads of state the sweet Afgani Opium.

Hey at least it's better than fighting over tea.

Hey at least it's better than fighting over tea.

Speaking of tea isnt it the British who are supposed to be fighting over opium?

Speaking of tea isnt it the British who are supposed to be fighting over opium?

everyone likes opium.

everyone likes opium.

But the US fights wars over oil, its the British who fight wars over selling opium.

Well the 'excuse' is pretty clear. They don't want to be a part of NATO and their new president has pledged full support. ... that likely means France in Afghanistan.

France is in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Security_Assistance_Force#Contributing_nations

France is in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Security_Assistance_Force#Contributing_nations

Jup, I'm a dumbass who didn't know that. Meh, guess the rioters wanna get out?

Jup, I'm a dumbass who didn't know that. Meh, guess the rioters wanna get out?

They want France to Draft them for service in Afghanistan.

They should simply design their cities to deal with rioters.

They should simply design their cities to deal with rioters.

You mean with built in booby traps and stuff?

You mean with built in booby traps and stuff?

No, just giant walls that come out of the ground, blocking off sections of the city.

No, just giant walls that come out of the ground, blocking off sections of the city.

Can we make them squish together ?

Can we make them squish together ?

Turn off the garbage smashers on detention level 3.

That could be entertaining.

Of course, it's rather amusing considering NATO was the primary reason why the entire continent didn't fall behind the Iron Curtain after WWII...they wouldn't be able to protest, let alone riot under the rule of the Soviets. Ah well, that was a long time ago; I think it's time we let them take care of their own countries.

I'm going to go with this here.

Originally Posted by Neu Leonstein
I was thinking...shouldn't the French police be one of the world's best at crowd control and anti-riot measures? And yet, they never seem to get a grip on anything and things always get out of hand there.

Maybe if Straßburg was were it's supposed to be, there wouldn't be a problem.
The french riot control method is avoid confrontation and try to keep the riots in one area until they run out of steam. The US method is there will be order now Hippies.
I think that what N.L. actually meant was "Maybe if Alsace-Lorraine was still a part of Germany, there wouldn't be a problem"...

I think that what N.L. actually meant was "Maybe if Alsace-Lorraine was still a part of Germany, there wouldn't be a problem"...

I think the people fit in with the Germans better there anyways. Such a silly thing the Versailles treaty made the Germans "give it back".
The German police with their spring mounted batons would make short work of those hippies most certainly.

Can we make them squish together ?

If we stole all the Big brother cameras from England, and put them up in France, you could totally sell it as a Pay-Per-View to the Americans.

Yeah I'm pretty offended that these people aren't getting shot at. If you throw a molotov cocktail at a policeman, you're kind of asking for it.

Yeah I'm pretty offended that these people aren't getting shot at. If you throw a molotov cocktail at a policeman, you're kind of asking for it.

Agreed.

Assault on an Officer is a fairly serious crime.

Yeah I'm pretty offended that these people aren't getting shot at. If you throw a molotov cocktail at a policeman, you're kind of asking for it.

Pretty much this...but you know, if they actually try to fight against the rioters, the police will be labeled as taking brutal measures. I can see the youtube videos of "police brutality" springing up all over.

Yeah I'm pretty offended that these people aren't getting shot at. If you throw a molotov cocktail at a policeman, you're kind of asking for it.

In most of the world the rioters are more expendable then the police.
In France if one rioter is injured regardless of how many police are killed that rioter is the tragedy.

Ahh the argument that I need a government to protect me from the guy the anarchist who wants to burn down my city.

The anarchist is quick to counter they wouldn't need to burn down the city if their was no government.

Why would an anarchist or anybody else "need" to burn down a city?

In most of the world the rioters are more expendable then the police.
In France if one rioter is injured regardless of how many police are killed that rioter is the tragedy.

France must be pretty messed up. It is like rioting is viewed as legitimate protected speech or something. There is no level of force that is excessive when it comes to dealing with rioters.