NationStates Jolt Archive

I've only got a German article on this, but it would appear that the German minister for the environment, Cem Oezdemir, was held up for an hour at the airport in Washington after arriving for an official visit.

Source (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,616659,00.html)

His wife and himself were led into a separate room and kept there for one hour, then told they could leave. There was no explanation, and no apology offered.
The visit had been announced, and a member of the German embassy staff had notified the airport authorities in advance.

Now, since that can't possibly in any way, shape or form be to do with his name, since we all know that US officials would never discriminate based on nothing but a name, I have to wonder : Are members of the Green Party now regarded as security threats in the US?

I've only got a German article on this, but it would appear that the German minister for the environment, Cem Oezdemir, was held up for an hour at the airport in Washington after arriving for an official visit.

Source (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,616659,00.html)

His wife and himself were led into a separate room and kept there for one hour, then told they could leave. There was no explanation, and no apology offered.
The visit had been announced, and a member of the German embassy staff had notified the airport authorities in advance.

Now, since that can't possibly in any way, shape or form be to do with his name, since we all know that US officials would never discriminate based on nothing but a name, I have to wonder : Are members of the Green Party now regarded as security threats in the US?

This country is so inherently racist that a reason like that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

A Whole Hour?!? :eek:

I can't read German, but I wonder if anybody else from that flight was held.

This country is so inherently racist that a reason like that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/exploding-head.gif

A Whole Hour?!? :eek:

I can't read German, but I wonder if anybody else from that flight was held.

Hey, if someone stops me at the airport and makes me sit in a room for an hour, the very least I'd expect is an explanation.
Or are you happy to just being stopped by anybody in a uniform without reason whatsoever, anytime they just feel like it?

I didn't know the Greens had any ministers since the SPD/CDP-CSU government came in at the last elections. I'm getting behind with the times!

I didn't know the Greens had any ministers since the SPD/CDP-CSU government came in at the last elections. I'm getting behind with the times!

Ah, sorry, my mistake. It's me getting behind there, he's the head of the Green Party and member of parliament, but I don't think he's a minister any more.

I wish I could get through customs in an hour.
They seem to have had things sped up honestly.
They should give an official letter of thanks to the US government.

Hey, if someone stops me at the airport and makes me sit in a room for an hour, the very least I'd expect is an explanation.
Or are you happy to just being stopped by anybody in a uniform without reason whatsoever, anytime they just feel like it?

They have to catch me first. ;)

And when they hold me, it's usually for 'observation'. :(

I wish I could get through customs in an hour.
They seem to have had things sped up honestly.
They should give an official letter of thanks to the US government.

Right... by making them sit in a room for an hour, after they went through customs. Sure. :rolleyes:

Hey, if someone stops me at the airport and makes me sit in a room for an hour, the very least I'd expect is an explanation.
Or are you happy to just being stopped by anybody in a uniform without reason whatsoever, anytime they just feel like it?

Is he an MP? Afaik MPs travel with a diplomatic passport. Wtf were the police trying to do, arousing a diplomatic incident?
My guess: dumbasses or racists.

from the OP article
... dass Özdemir ein Opfer der Weiterleitung von Passagierdaten durch die Fluglinien wurde, die in den USA per Computer ausgewertet werden. Die Mischung aus nichtdeutschem Namen, muslimischer Herkunft und speziellen vegetarischen Essenswünschen auf dem Flug könne den Wunsch nach genauer Überprüfung ausgelöst haben.
...that Ö. has been a victim of the transmission of the passengers' data on part of the air companien. These data are sent to the USA via computer.
The mix of non-german names, muslim origin and special vegetarian menu request on the flight could have unleashed the desire for more accurate controls.

^ This. Racists.

Fail, of the highest calibre.

A Whole Hour?!? :eek:

I can't read German, but I wonder if anybody else from that flight was held.
I'll try:
Berlin - Der Grünen-Vorsitzende Cem Özdemir ist bei der Einreise in die USA für eine gesonderte Sicherheitsüberprüfung festgehalten worden. Er sei mit seiner Frau am Flughafen Washington-Dulles ohne weitere Informationen in einen Nebenraum gewiesen worden, berichtete Özdemir dem Berliner "Tagesspiegel". Das Auswärtige Amt in Berlin bestätigte "Verzögerungen" bei seiner Einreise am Montag. Dabei hatte die deutsche Botschaft Özdemirs Besuch angekündigt und einen Mitarbeiter zum Airport geschickt, wie ein Ministeriumssprecher sagte.
Dem "Tagesspiegel" zufolge durften der Grünen-Chef und seine Frau nach einer Stunde gehen - ohne weitere Erklärung oder Entschuldigung. Die Zeitung vermutete, dass Özdemir ein Opfer der Weiterleitung von Passagierdaten durch die Fluglinien wurde, die in den USA per Computer ausgewertet werden. Die Mischung aus nichtdeutschem Namen, muslimischer Herkunft und speziellen vegetarischen Essenswünschen auf dem Flug könne den Wunsch nach genauer Überprüfung ausgelöst haben.
Berlin-- The Green Party chairman, Cem Ozdemir, was held for special security investigation upon his entry to the USA. He, together with his wife, was ordered into a side room at Washington's Dulles Airport without any further information, Ozdemir reported to the Berlin "Daily Mirror". The Foreign Office in Berlin referred to a "detention" at his entry on Monday. The Consulate received a request from Ozdemir about it, and sent an officer to the airport, said a Ministry spokesman.
According to the "Daily Mirror", the Green chief and his wife were allowed to leave after an hour-- without further explanation or apology. The newspaper speculates that Ozdemir became a victim of passenger data relayed by the airline, which was evaluated in the USA by a computer system. The combined effect from a non-German name, Muslim origin, and special vegetarian meal-request on the flight could have resulted in the desire for more detailed investigation.

Heh. Shows what I know. I didn't even recognize Cem Ozdemir as a non-german name. :p

I'll try:
The Foreign Office only confirmed a "delay", not a "detention". =)

Oh, also, as for the OP: what a bunch of fucktards.

The Foreign Office only confirmed a "delay", not a "detention". =)Danke sehr.
I should have known that any strange term used by a "Foreign Office" would mean some watered-down weasel-wording.

Danke sehr.
I should have known that any strange term used by a "Foreign Office" would mean some watered-down weasel-wording.
Hehe, it's actually a very common, non-weasely word and really just means "delay", but you're still right. :p

I've only got a German article on this, but it would appear that the German minister for the environment, Cem Oezdemir, was held up for an hour at the airport in Washington after arriving for an official visit.

Source (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,616659,00.html)

His wife and himself were led into a separate room and kept there for one hour, then told they could leave. There was no explanation, and no apology offered.
The visit had been announced, and a member of the German embassy staff had notified the airport authorities in advance.

Now, since that can't possibly in any way, shape or form be to do with his name, since we all know that US officials would never discriminate based on nothing but a name, I have to wonder : Are members of the Green Party now regarded as security threats in the US?



Honestly, sounds like somebody fucked up. I wouldnt read too much more into it then that.

Right... by making them sit in a room for an hour, after they went through customs. Sure. :rolleyes:

As opposed to standing in line for 2 hours to get through customs. Seems they came out ahead. Lucky bastards. It is bloody favoritism.

I've flown in and out of that airport with a Pakistani, and we've never had any problems. Who knows.

This country is so inherently racist that a reason like that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Pretty sweeping generalization, there, bucko.

I can think of several airports with not insubstantial staffing by minorities.

I can think of several airports with not insubstantial staffing by minorities.
Like MIA, LAX, FTL, JFK . . . etc

From personal experience using American airports quite often, I know that most major international airports I use have either, around an equal number of white to minority workers or even more minority workers than white workers. For God's sake it's not as if The Klan is running American airports . . . and only allows 'Aryan's to travel freely. lol

In my opinion, it was an hour, big deal. I've had more problems than that with airport security and I have an American passport, I'm white and have blonde hair.

Özdemir sucks anyway, so I don't really care. :p

Heh. Shows what I know. I didn't even recognize Cem Ozdemir as a non-german name. :p
:eek:

Are you serious? Next you'll tell me that Mehmet is also a German name . . . :D

*SNIP*
Frage . . . was wollte er hier eigentlich tun? Ich mein, warum flog er nach Amerika?

For God's sake it's not as if The Klan is running American airports . . . and only allows 'Aryan's to travel freely.
Obviously... they detained a German!

How on Earth can you possibly think detaining a German was due to racism? Against Germans? Its not the earth 1900s anymore folks, we're past that particular era.

Obviously... they detained a German!

How on Earth can you possibly think detaining a German was due to racism? Against Germans? Its not the earth 1900s anymore folks, we're past that particular era.
. . . lol, because he's Turkish, and Muslim. Can't you tell by his name? Couldn't you tell by his name and picture???

. . . lol, because he's Turkish, and Muslim. Can't you tell by his name? Couldn't you tell by his name and picture???

Cem Oezdemir doesn't sound Muslim to me... Sounds Russian or Czech or something. Definitely not Muslim.

It should be noted that Turkish is a language different than Arabic, which obviously is traditionally associated with Muslims.

Cem Oezdemir doesn't sound Muslim to me... Sounds Russian or Czech or something. Definitely not Muslim.
Look, Cem Oezdemir does not sound Russia. At all. The fact is, that not only is it Turkish but it's REALLY turkish. Not knowing that does not make it not so. :p
It should be noted that Turkish is a language different than Arabic, which obviously is traditionally associated with Muslims.
I never once said it/he was Arabic. I said Turkish and Muslim.

Look, Cem Oezdemir does not sound Russia. At all. The fact is, that not only is it Turkish but it's REALLY turkish. Not knowing that does not make it not so. :p

I never once said it/he was Arabic. I said Turkish and Muslim.

Ok, let's think about this. It sounds Russian to me, since I am not familiar with the Turkish language. You are, so it sounds very Turkish to you. So, I disagree with the bolded statement.

Who do you think the TSA agents who detained the guy are more like?

Ok, let's think about this. It sounds Russian to me, since I am not familiar with the Turkish language. You are, so it sounds very Turkish to you. So, I disagree with the bolded statement.
Fine, but for the record, Russian and Turkish are quite different. To me it sounds like the difference between Winston and Juan, :p

Who do you think the TSA agents who detained the guy are more like?
How dare you! I am the epitome of standard airport worker-ness!:p

Obama should issue a formal apology, I suppose.

Obama should issue a formal apology, I suppose.

He should issue a thank you letter to Obama that he did not get a cavity search.

He should issue a thank you letter to Obama that he did not get a cavity search.

Ok, its April Fool's day. For a moment there, I thought you were serious.:D

Fine, but for the record, Russian and Turkish are quite different. To me it sounds like the difference between Winston and Juan, :p

I would like to join the ranks of people not noticing it was a Turkish name. There's actually a whole bunch of Turks that go to my school, but somehow I didn't notice until I stared at it for awhile... Also they look basically European to me, almost like the could be from South America and of European descent. Ozdemir looks kinda that way too, imo.

How dare you! I am the epitome of standard airport worker-ness!:p

hehe

At least this isn't as bad as giving Queen Elizabeth II an iPod. (Go, Obama, go. :p)

http://images.zeit.de/bilder/2009/14/deutschland/oezdemir-2/oezdemir-2-artikel-210.jpg
"Ve dön't want to talk about it!"

Seriously, what the fuck.

I'm voting for letting EVERYONE but Germans wait for more than an hour to enter this countury JUST BECAUSE!

Obama should issue a formal apology, I suppose.

Why? He doesnt control the airports.

Why? He doesnt control the airports.

Isn't security there handled by the government? Or is this the work of private contractors?

Either way, detaining a foreign minister could be a bit of a diplomatic incident, so why not apologise to smooth things over with an ally?

Isn't security there handled by the government? Or is this the work of private contractors?

Either way, detaining a foreign minister could be a bit of a diplomatic incident, so why not apologise to smooth things over with an ally?

I suppose he could, but he is under no obligation to. Someone fucked up. Unless it was the government, hes not required to.

It might be a smart move to express his sympathies, and condemn what happened. The last thing he wants is to piss away the good will he has with much of the world, and every little incident adds up. Especially if it stinks of Bush era-style racial/religious profiling in airports.

It might be a smart move to express his sympathies, and condemn what happened. The last thing he wants is to piss away the good will he has with much of the world, and every little incident adds up. Especially if it stinks of Bush era-style racial/religious profiling in airports.

The Germans and the French are already being dicks at G20. I say let them stew.

Now, since that can't possibly in any way, shape or form be to do with his name, since we all know that US officials would never discriminate based on nothing but a name, I have to wonder : Are members of the Green Party now regarded as security threats in the US?
He's a damned kraut and an ecoterrorist sympathizer. Lock him up and beat him with soap on a rope.

He's a damned kraut and an ecoterrorist sympathizer. Lock him up and beat him with soap on a rope.

Trollin' trollin' trollin'.

Trollin' trollin' trollin'.
A good chunk of my family is from Germany so I can call them stuff like kraut and jerry and fritz just like black people can use the word n-i-"double guh"-err.

How dare you! I am the epitome of standard airport worker-ness!:p

You frequently misplace other people's stuff, hold them up for random reasons, and drown them in paperwork when something goes wrong. Right.

:tongue:

It might be a smart move to express his sympathies, and condemn what happened. The last thing he wants is to piss away the good will he has with much of the world, and every little incident adds up. Especially if it stinks of Bush era-style racial/religious profiling in airports.

Obama does not need to get involved. It's a non-issue and he's not that important. Seriously, it's not as if he were the Kanzler or something.

And you know, I've seen people blame Bush for some ridiculous stuff. Global warming, dying out of the dinos, faulty cell phone service and even failing to break 100 in a bowling game, but saying that racial profiling comes from Bush is just about the most ridiculous thing that's ever existed. Racial profiling has been around for ever, and it's not like Bush said, "DETAIN ARABS IN AIRPORTS OR ATLEAST CAUSE THEM INCONVIENCES!"

The joke in the black and hispanic community goes something like this:

Arab guy arrives late to his seat on the plane to join his black and latin buddies. They ask him what the hold up was for. He starts complaining about racial profiling and about how, since 9/11, people are starting to think he may be a criminal due to the color of his skin. The Black guy and the Latino guy both roll their eyes and say, "welcome to the club."

Racial profiling has been around for ever. If Blacks tend to disproportionately cause alot of crime in big cities, police tend to racial profile Blacks. If Arabs tend to disproportionately cause terrorist attacks, security personel will racial profile Arabs. It doesn't make it right, but you don't need to blame this one on Bush. . .

You frequently misplace other people's stuff, hold them up for random reasons, and drown them in paperwork when something goes wrong. Right.

:tongue:
and if I were? :p

A good chunk of my family is from Germany so I can call them stuff like kraut and jerry and fritz just like black people can use the word n-i-"double guh"-err.

You find is ok to use/type kraut, but not ******? :confused:

Edit: Seriously? N1gger is auto edited. Jesus.....

. . . lol, because he's Turkish, and Muslim. Can't you tell by his name? Couldn't you tell by his name and picture???

Actually, no, he's German.
But don't let that stop you in your rants.

I take issue with the argument that this is a non issue. If an American congressman, traveling on a diplomatic passport on official business was detained for an hour because he was the 'wrong color' in Germany do you think it wouldn't be a big deal? I think the TSA people involved deserved to get a swift smack in the head and perhaps fired. Theirs no reason to excuse their stupidity in this matter.

Actually, no, he's German.
But don't let that stop you in your rants.

He's a non-white Muslim German of Turkish descent.

Obama does not need to get involved. It's a non-issue and he's not that important. Seriously, it's not as if he were the Kanzler or something.

This is not a non-issue; its a potentially serious diplomatic incident that could damage Obama's credibility and popularity overseas, and particularily with an ally and NATO member. As FreeSatania said, if this were an American politician, wouldn't this be a big deal?

Also, how does Obama's "importance" have anything to do with it? Its like you're suggesting it would be arrogant for him to apologise to Germany.:confused:

In any case, its hard to get much more important than President of the United States, so yes, he is that important.

And you know, I've seen people blame Bush for some ridiculous stuff. Global warming, dying out of the dinos, faulty cell phone service and even failing to break 100 in a bowling game, but saying that racial profiling comes from Bush is just about the most ridiculous thing that's ever existed. Racial profiling has been around for ever, and it's not like Bush said, "DETAIN ARABS IN AIRPORTS OR ATLEAST CAUSE THEM INCONVIENCES!"

I never said it originated with Bush. But don't pretend that it didn't become associated with the general trend of post-911 violations of civil liberties that Bush instituted.

The joke in the black and hispanic community goes something like this:

Arab guy arrives late to his seat on the plane to join his black and latin buddies. They ask him what the hold up was for. He starts complaining about racial profiling and about how, since 9/11, people are starting to think he may be a criminal due to the color of his skin. The Black guy and the Latino guy both roll their eyes and say, "welcome to the club."

Racial profiling has been around for ever. If Blacks tend to disproportionately cause alot of crime in big cities, police tend to racial profile Blacks. If Arabs tend to disproportionately cause terrorist attacks, security personel will racial profile Arabs. It doesn't make it right, but you don't need to blame this one on Bush. . .

As above.

and if I were? :p

I'd say you were fired.

He's a non-white Muslim German of Turkish descent.

Well, I'm a left-handed atheist of Austrian descent.
That doesn't change the fact that I'm German, same as him.

Well, I'm a left-handed atheist of Austrian descent.
That doesn't change the fact that I'm German, same as him.

You think that stops racial profiling? This isn't because of his citizenship.

You think that stops racial profiling? This isn't because of his citizenship.

That's the point I was trying to get at.
Racism that is state-promoted and even gets excused by people who one would assume have more than 2 brain cells to rub together.... I'm not entirely sure if I should be outraged or just incredibly sad.
After all, this is the nation that until recently couldn't shout loud enough about "bringing freedom and democracy" to the world.

As long as your ancestors are from the right parts of the world, it would seem.

Obama does not need to get involved...

Well as he is out of the country it remains to be seen if they will let him back in.

. . . lol, because he's Turkish, and Muslim. Can't you tell by his name? Couldn't you tell by his name and picture???

No, he couldn't - obviously he didn't. I only realized he was Turkish because people in this thread complained about supposed 'racism'. So I don't see how it is obvious that American airport personnel (who do not encounter Turkish people on a daily basis) would be able to distinguish him from a German. I could sort of see it if his name was Mohammed Mostafa Ibn-Suleiman Al-Arab or something. But that's not what this is.

An hour? Boo-freaking hoo.

When Rejistania left Israel after visiting me, her processing took several hours, not only was she questioned, but I was also questioned (and I wasn't even flying!), and her laptop was taken away as a flight risk.

So, yeah, much ado about nothing. Definitely racism is not the explanation, unless you think this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17073-2004Aug19.html), this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12284855/), this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18735-2004Oct8.html?), this (http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080430/NATION/946059998/1002), this (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/19/tsa.watch.list/index.html) and this (http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/business/14road.html) is also the result of racism.

Not a single thing about this in American papers, that's disappointing...

The whole fiasco is BS

Not a single thing about this in American papers, that's disappointing...



Because a guy being held up one-hour at the airport is newsworthy now?

Because a guy being held up one-hour at the airport is newsworthy now?

He's a politician, any politician is news worthy. If they will right entire magazines about Barack Obama taking a trip to the bathroom they should at least right an article on the other Muslim sounding politician getting held up at the airport.

Because a guy being held up one-hour at the airport is newsworthy now?

A politician on a diplomatic flight to another country being held up, after having informed the authorities in advance about his coming and having a member of the German embassy staff at the airport to collect him, may not be all that newsworthy.
The foreign authorities giving no explanation and no apology for holding him for no apparent reason whatsoever is newsworthy indeed.

The question has been asked, do you think it would be newsworthy if a USAmerican member of congress were held up in Germany without explanation?
There'd be an outrage.

The question has been asked, do you think it would be newsworthy if a USAmerican member of congress were held up in Germany without explanation?
There'd be an outrage.
There would be an outrage if Clinton or Obama or someone going to represent the government directly was held up, but they wouldn't exactly fly normal flights anyway so it's irrelevant. It's also irrelevant because the Green party is not in the Grand Coalition, so he, representing the Green party, does not represent the current German government.

Thus, he's a non-representative, thus it's a non-issue.
if a USAmerican member of congress
As opposed to what? A Mexican-American member of congress? Stop being ridiculous, that sounds stupid and the term "American member of congress" is the acceptable way of saying that, or better yet even, American congressman. You are speaking to us in english, you will address us using correct english, regardless of your your views.

Actually, no, he's German.
But don't let that stop you in your rants.
Where did I say he wasn't German? You're feeding exactly the kind of the ideology you claim to be against, by claiming someone cannot be German and Turkish at the same time. Nice job. ;)

There would be an outrage if Clinton or Obama or someone going to represent the government directly was held up, but they wouldn't exactly fly normal flights anyway so it's irrelevant. It's also irrelevant because the Green party is not in the Grand Coalition, so he, representing the Green party, does not represent the current German government.

Thus, he's a non-representative, thus it's a non-issue.

He is a member of parliament, being an opposition leader. That does make him a representative of the German parliament. Much that same as Merkel was way back when she would fly to the US to suck off... er, sorry, suck up to Bush.


As opposed to what? A Mexican-American member of congress? Stop being ridiculous, that sounds stupid and the term "American member of congress" is the acceptable way of saying that, or better yet even, American congressman. You are speaking to us in english, you will address us using correct english, regardless of your your views.

I was using correct English. And you will not tell me what to do or not to do.

. . . lol, because he's Turkish, and Muslim. Can't you tell by his name? Couldn't you tell by his name and picture???

Where did I say he wasn't German? You're feeding exactly the kind of the ideology you claim to be against, by claiming someone cannot be German and Turkish at the same time. Nice job. ;)

Right there.
His nationality is German, he works for the German parliament. He's German, not Turkish, there is no double citizenship in Germany.

He is a member of parliament, being an opposition leader. That does make him a representative of the German parliament.
No it doesn't. The grand coalition represents the current German government, of which the Greens are excluded. He does not represent current German government. I never said he wasn't a member of German parliament.


I was using correct English. And you will not tell me what to do or not to do.
You're on an english forum, you use english. It's one thing to make mistakes in english because you're a non-native speaker, it's another to purposefully use obtuse and incorrect words that are not officially used in English for no good reason. When you read any kind of report, it discusses the American Congress or the U.S. Congress (not USAmerican because that's not a word we use). Look, the CIA World Factbook, an internationally credible source, states this very clearly:

Nationality:
noun: American(s)
adjective: American

You will use the correct english word to describe us when speaking in English. That is the word we use for ourselves. I would never call German people "Germans" in the German language, because it's not the word you use for yourselves. What is so hard to understand? If anything, do it to be polite and respectful of what people call themselves. The only reason you wouldn't be so, is if you were just trying to piss people off.

Person A: My name is Bob

Person B: I disagree, I'll call you USBob

Person A: But that's not my name, and I choose my own name.

Person B: Well, I'm an asshole, so sue me. :p
Right there.
His nationality is German, he works for the German parliament. He's German, not Turkish.
Right where? I asked you where I've stated that he "was not German." Again, you are hurting everything you claim to stand for, by claiming that one cannot be Turkish/Muslim and German. You're making yourself look bad.

No it doesn't. The grand coalition represents the current German government, of which the Greens are excluded. He does not represent current German government. I never said he wasn't a member of German parliament.
As an elected member of parliament he does represent the German people. And last time I checked they were still allies.

As an elected member of parliament he does represent the German people. And last time I checked they were still allies.
Read what I said, please. He does not represent the current German government, because the Grand Coalition, which is the current ruling government, excludes the Greens and other left wing extremists like The Left.

Read what I said, please. He does not represent the current German government, because the Grand Coalition, which is the current ruling government, excludes the Greens and other left wing extremists like The Left.
Yes, but he does represent the German people. :wink:

The Greens aren't extremists, by the way.

The Greens aren't extremists, by the way.
Debatable :p . . . but I more meant "other left wing Extremist parties like The Left." The Left is a left wing extremist party in Germany, by the way.

Debatable :p . . . but I more meant "other left wing Extremist parties like The Left."
My bad. :$

....

As opposed to what? A Mexican-American member of congress? Stop being ridiculous, that sounds stupid and the term "American member of congress" is the acceptable way of saying that, or better yet even, American congressman. You are speaking to us in english, you will address us using correct english, regardless of your your views.

What do you call members of the USian congress that aren't men?

Do you still call them congressmen?

What do you call members of the USian congress that aren't men?

Do you still call them congressmen?


You call them Senator or Representative, depending on which house of Congress they belong to.

You call them Senator or Representative, depending on which house of Congress they belong to.

Thanks. Someone should tell TAI that.

You will use the correct english word to describe us when speaking in English.
The imperative form, really? (because there is no way that is the simple future tense) You think rather highly of yourself to give such orders.


The only reason you wouldn't be so, is if you were just trying to piss people off. Certainly not a behaviour you would ever be guilty of.

Shh now. Listen. You hear that? It's the sound of the English language evolving, without your permission.

Read what I said, please. He does not represent the current German government, because the Grand Coalition, which is the current ruling government, excludes the Greens and other left wing extremists like The Left.

Let's see how you like it when we give Michael Steele (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele) a one hour 'delay' next time he visits Germany (or anywhere else in Europe).

He's a non-white Muslim German of Turkish descent.
You think that stops racial profiling? This isn't because of his citizenship.

He isn't any more non-white than any Italian, Bulgarian, or Greek, so how does that make it racial profiling? What it is is religious profiling, because he's a Muslim, and our goverments are scared shitless of such people, especially those who request vegetarian meals. Which incidently is the reason i'm not flying anywhere these days: I too am a non-Christian, requesting vegetarian meals, and i got frisked everytime...before 9/11.

Thanks. Someone should tell TAI that.
Senator or Representative are terms in particular for someone belonging to the House or the Senate, they have nothing to do with the adjective describing their nationality. Which was not the point because she used the term "USAmerican member of congress." We are not debating the the names one uses to describe the name of a member of Congress, we are discussing the correct way of describing nationality.

But by all means, switch goal posts all you want.
Let's see how you like it when we give Michael Steele (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele) a one hour 'delay' next time he visits Germany (or anywhere else in Europe).
What do you want me to say? If Michael Steele were detained in an airport for one hour I'd riot and burn down the German embassy? No, I wouldn't care. It's an hour delay. Get over it.
He isn't any more non-white than any Italian, Bulgarian, or Greek, so how does that make it racial profiling? What it is is religious profiling, because he's a Muslim, and our goverments are scared shitless of such people, especially those who request vegetarian meals. Which incidently is the reason i'm not flying anywhere these days: I too am a non-Christian, requesting vegetarian meals, and i got frisked everytime...before 9/11.
Turks are non-European, for the most part, and in general are not considered "White". An exception is like on the U.S. Census where Turks and Arabs, North Africans and Persians are considered White, though to be honest, socially most people don't don't consider these people White.

I think you'd really insult many Italians, more so those in the center and north of the country, by saying that they are as White as Turks. . .

Largely irrelevant though, because for the sake of airport security or just racial profiling in general Arabs, Turks and North Africans are most definetly not considerd White, which is the reason why this racial profile exists for them anyway.

And you're being ridiculous not flying because you worry about hold ups at the airport. Like I said, I've had numerous frisks, hold ups and encounters with security/customs and I'm white, with blonde hair and an American passport. . .

Senator or Representative are terms in particular for someone belonging to the House or the Senate, they have nothing to do with the adjective describing their nationality. Which was not the point because she used the term "USAmerican member of congress." We are not debating the the names one uses to describe the name of a member of Congress, we are discussing the correct way of describing nationality.

But by all means, switch goal posts all you want....

Actually, I had asked you a specific question.

...
As opposed to what? A Mexican-American member of congress? Stop being ridiculous, that sounds stupid and the term "American member of congress" is the acceptable way of saying that, or better yet even, American congressman. You are speaking to us in english, you will address us using correct english, regardless of your your views.

What do you call members of the USian congress that aren't men?

Do you still call them congressmen?

What do you call members of the USian congress that aren't men?

Do you still call them congressmen?

Dude, please use the term estadounidense instead. "USian" just sounds so stupid.

Dude, please use the term estadounidense instead. "USian" just sounds so stupid.

That's a Spanish word. I'm currently writing in English.

That's a Spanish word. I'm currently writing in English.

I know, but USian just sounds completely stupid. I don't find it offensive so much as I find it retarded-sounding.

I know, but USian just sounds completely stupid. I don't find it offensive so much as I find it retarded-sounding.

How do you pronounce it?

How do you pronounce it?

you-ess-ee-inn.

Or you can just call us Yankees, Yanks, or whatever. :p

you-ess-ee-inn.

Or you can just call us Yankees, Yanks, or whatever. :p

Most of the time I use the term US citizens. It's helpful in discussing international politics because it helps me clearly delineate between the US citizens and their government, two groups that are often in disagreement on foreign issues.

Actually, I had asked you a specific question.



What do you call members of the USian congress that aren't men?

Do you still call them congressmen?

Ive heard congresswoman.

Usually I hear Senator or Representative though.

Actually, I had asked you a specific question.



What do you call members of the USian congress that aren't men?

Do you still call them congressmen?

That is flame-baiting.

There is no such thing as a USian congress. I'm not going to get mad and flame you, even though you are flame-baiting, but it just sounds stupid and makes you look juvenile and like you can't use english.

However, if you were asking when we call members of the U.S. Congress, it's usually, as examples, like this:

Senator Clinton

Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz

Still switching goal posts though from that she was using the incorrect adjective to describe someone from the United States of America. She used the term "USAmerican member of congress" which is not only incorrect, but only confuses the situation. She is clearly speaking about the United States Congress, so it is obvious that it is an American member of Congress. It would not be a Peruvian member of Congress, logically. Thus, no clarification is necessary.

There is no such thing as a USian congress. I'm not going to get mad and flame you, even though you are flame-baiting, but it just sounds stupid and makes you look juvenile and like you can't use english.

However, if you were asking when we call members of the U.S. Congress, it's usually, as examples, like this:

Senator Clinton

Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz

Still switching goal posts though from that she was using the incorrect adjective to describe someone from the United States of America.

So, can we say that you were wrong when you told Cabra that she should have used the term 'congressman'?

EDIT: By the way, there is a USian congress. I believe it has two chambers: the Senate and the House of Representatives.

So, can we say that you were wrong when you told Cabra that she should have used the term 'congressman'?
No, we can say that that is a correct term, and there are others that are also correct, unlike USAmerican, which is not a correct term we use in english to describe our congressmen's/senators'/representatives'/ nationalities.

The issue here is between correct and incorrect terms.

Switching goal posts is fine, I don't mine debating this, but that doesn't stop you from being wrong on the the other issue. :wink:

EDIT: By the way, there is a USian congress. I believe it has two chambers: the Senate and the House of Representatives.

Continuing to flame bait . . . ? I already asked you to stop flame-baiting me. Would you mind stopping?

No, we can say that that is a correct term, and there are others that are also correct, unlike USAmerican, which is not a correct term we use in english to describe our congressmen's/senators'/representatives'/ nationalities.

The issue here is between correct and incorrect terms.

Switching goal posts is fine, I don't mine debating this, but that doesn't stop you from being wrong on the the other issue. :wink:

So, you call a male member of the USian congress 'congressman' but a female member of the USian congress is called by her specific title?

Why is that?

So, you call a male member of the USian congress 'congressman' but a female member of the USian congress is called by her specific title?

Why is that?
This is the last time I will ask you to stop flame-baiting. . .

This is the last time I will ask you to stop flame-baiting. . .

So, you're not going to answer my question?

I just thought that after you were so careful to point out the proper English for discussing 'congressmen' that you would be a bit more careful when speaking of their female colleagues, yet you aren't.

Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on the English of others if you can not defend your own usage.

So, you're not going to answer my question?

I just thought that after you were so careful to point out the proper English for discussing 'congressmen' that you would be a bit more careful when speaking of their female colleagues, yet you aren't.

Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on the English of others if you can not defend your own usage.
Congressman is not an incorrect term:

Encyclopedia.com, sourced from The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English. 2009

con·gress·man / ˈkänggrəsmən; ˈkän-/
• n. (pl. -men) a member of the U.S. Congress (also used as a form of address), usually specifically a member of the U.S. House of Representatives.

That doesn't mean there are not other correct words to use as well, which I have already stated but you have ignored, such as Senator and Representative.

Congressman is not an incorrect term:

Encyclopedia.com, sourced from The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English. 2009

con·gress·man / ˈkänggrəsmən; ˈkän-/
• n. (pl. -men) a member of the U.S. Congress (also used as a form of address), usually specifically a member of the U.S. House of Representatives.

That doesn't mean there are not other correct words to use as well, which I have already stated but you have ignored, such as Senator and Representative.

Are you saying that it is correct to address female members of the USian congress as congressmen? Isn't that a bit sexist?

Continuing to flame bait . . . ? I already asked you to stop flame-baiting me. Would you mind stopping?

Let me get this straight: you've asked Gift-of-God to stop using USian because it annoys you and you are now maintaining any further use of that term is flame-baiting?

If I ask you to stop using ridiculous terms like "political correctness" and "newspeak," can I get you disciplined if you use them anyway?

Let me get this straight: you've asked Gift-of-God to stop using USian because it annoys you and you are now maintaining any further use of that term is flame-baiting?


The term is against the rules, IIRC.

The term is against the rules, IIRC.

I thought it was allowed, but debates about it aren't.

The term is against the rules, IIRC.

I believe the precedent is that Mods have not banned the term, but the deliberate use of it to provoke others could be flame-baiting. I find that second bit a tad silly, but I've never found the term offensive, just stupid. Whether Gift-of-God has crossed that line is clearly up to the Mods.

We're not going to stop people from using the term USian, that'd be as silly as the term itself, but we do take a dim view on flamebaiting. So I'd suggest everyone is free to use the term, just don't antagonise people with it.

I'm not American myself though, so if any of my colleagues want to weigh in on this, feel free.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13053796&postcount=8

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13053140&postcount=6

I've only got a German article on this, but it would appear that the German minister for the environment, Cem Oezdemir, was held up for an hour at the airport in Washington after arriving for an official visit.

Source (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,616659,00.html)

His wife and himself were led into a separate room and kept there for one hour, then told they could leave. There was no explanation, and no apology offered.
The visit had been announced, and a member of the German embassy staff had notified the airport authorities in advance.

Now, since that can't possibly in any way, shape or form be to do with his name, since we all know that US officials would never discriminate based on nothing but a name, I have to wonder : Are members of the Green Party now regarded as security threats in the US?


So Environmentalists are threats to the US? What nonsense. We are all peaceful ('cept the eco-anarchists) but those are shoddy anyway. A gov't should support the environment, not destroy it. More nonsense from the US. My grandmother returned from mailing to packages at the UPS facility and says now you've got to have a special permit to ship Slinkies.

This country is so inherently racist that a reason like that wouldn't surprise me in the least.
...........
Oh right... right... those dirty Germans with their beer and schnitzels! How dare they come here flaunting their lederhosen!

......
Really, now, can't you come up with a better troll than that?

He's a politician, any politician is news worthy. If they will right entire magazines about Barack Obama taking a trip to the bathroom they should at least right an article on the other Muslim sounding politician getting held up at the airport.
Source, please. I think the American public needs to know how regular the President is. Where is this magazine concerning the state of his bowels?

Source, please. I think the American public needs to know how regular the President is. Where is this magazine concerning the state of his bowels?

Fuck Kat, warn a girl before she ends up with a french fry lodged in her throat!

Fuck Kat, warn a girl before she ends up with a french fry lodged in her throat!
Sorry, I come by my being a wiseass honestly... you should hear the conversation around the communal Ganistan dinner table of a Thanksgiving.... ;)

Stop being ridiculous, that sounds stupid and the term "American member of congress" is the acceptable way of saying that, or better yet even, American congressman. You are speaking to us in english, you will address us using correct english, regardless of your your views.

You're on an english forum, you use english. It's one thing to make mistakes in english because you're a non-native speaker, it's another to purposefully use obtuse and incorrect words that are not officially used in English for no good reason.
Excuse you?
Cabra was using perfectly fine English. Take your snit about speaking "proper english" (sic) elsewhere, especially since, ironically, it appears you missed out on the "capitalizing a proper noun" in your missive and you've no authority to tell her how to post.

...........
Oh right... right... those dirty Germans with their beer and schnitzels! How dare they come here flaunting their lederhosen!

......
Really, now, can't you come up with a better troll than that?


Source, please. I think the American public needs to know how regular the President is. Where is this magazine concerning the state of his bowels?

It was an exaggeration Kat, a horribly large exaggeration.

What do you want me to say? If Michael Steele were detained in an airport for one hour I'd riot and burn down the German embassy? No, I wouldn't care. It's an hour delay. Get over it.

You are saying Germans rioted & burnt down the US embassy? I didn't hear of that...

Turks are non-European, for the most part, and in general are not considered "White". An exception is like on the U.S. Census where Turks and Arabs, North Africans and Persians are considered White, though to be honest, socially most people don't don't consider these people White.

Speak for yourself, please. Turkey is culturally & historically, if not geographically considered to be part of Europe. The EU wouldn't even consider a Turkish application to join otherwise (as they did with Morocco). Your goverment's census is correct on the whiteness of the aforementioned peoples. Around here, we lump North-Africans, Southern Europeans, Arabs, Israelis & Turks together as 'Mediterranians'.

I think you'd really insult many Italians, more so those in the center and north of the country, by saying that they are as White as Turks. . .

They are even insulted to be associated with Southern Italians, so why should i head their objections?

As opposed to standing in line for 2 hours to get through customs. Seems they came out ahead. Lucky bastards. It is bloody favoritism.
I believe the hour was in addition to, not instead of, the usual BS.
Cem Oezdemir doesn't sound Muslim to me... Sounds Russian or Czech or something.
Impossible, as Slavic languages do not have umlaut vowels. (The -mir suffix, to be sure, sounds Slavic.)
So I don't see how it is obvious that American airport personnel (who do not encounter Turkish people on a daily basis) would be able to distinguish him from a German.
The computer flagged him. And I would think airport personnel do encounter Turks (and Nigerians, and Samoans, and ...) regularly.

Cabra was using perfectly fine English.
I would not agree.

Pretty sweeping generalization, there, bucko.

I can think of several airports with not insubstantial staffing by minorities.

The country in general. Take a good, hard look at history. By and large, anyone who wasn't a white Protestant of western European descent has taken a lot of shit over the years.

...........
Oh right... right... those dirty Germans with their beer and schnitzels! How dare they come here flaunting their lederhosen!

......
Really, now, can't you come up with a better troll than that?

Here's the thing: He's of Turkish descent even though he's a German citizen. His name is derived from the Turkish language. Therefore, what I said not an instance of trolling. It's unfortunately a sad truth that it's very possible that such is why he was detained.

It was an exaggeration Kat, a horribly large exaggeration.

It was no exaggeration. Racism is written into the original version of the 1787 United States Constitution - remember the Three-Fifths Compromise? It was codified into the framework of our government! It's been with this country since the first European-descent people set foot in what is now the United States.