NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1579345/Biggest-brain-drain-from-UK-in-50-years.html

Huge amounts of political attention in Britain are given to problems regarding immigration but almost no attention is paid to emigration. The cost of educating somebody through school, a graduate degree and a PHD is huge (I know there are tuition fees etc, but I'm putting this in context of the debate about what the government should pay for). There is talk about immigrants taking out of the system without having put anything in it - but surely the problem of people taking so much out and then putting nothing in is worse? And this can be compounded as some would be emigrants are not accepted as they have large medical costs or, worse still for the exchequer, some emigrants come back to Britain after developing medical problems

Are ideas such as free education for all, unemployment benefit & free healthcare for all changing in a world where the movement of people is more fluid? Is it advantageous for a country to spend so much on citizens who might then leave? Or to spend money on immigrants who have only just arrived?

People are coming to your country for a better life and a better education, then taking their education back to their home country to make it a better place.

Sounds like a good investment to me.

Edit: Though I'd like to point out, that I don't see much in the article about immigrants emigrating after an education.

In fact:

"Britain has been lucky - although it has lost substantial numbers of people, it has attracted more than a million skilled immigrants to replace them. If they stop coming then that would be a problem."

People are coming to your country for a better life and a better education, then taking their education back to their home country to make it a better place.

Sounds like a good investment to me.

Edit: Though I'd like to point out, that I don't see much in the article about immigrants emigrating after an education.

I was talking about British citizens emigrating, not immigrants coming and going.

This subject is very much a kind of thinking aloud sort of one that I'm throwing out for discussion - I'm not proposing to dismantle the role of government just yet! I'm wondering if there will come a point where the movement of people is such that governments will have to alter their services in order to encourage people to stay put.

I was talking about British citizens emigrating, not immigrants coming and going.

This subject is very much a kind of thinking aloud sort of one that I'm throwing out for discussion - I'm not proposing to dismantle the role of government just yet! I'm wondering if there will come a point where the movement of people is such that governments will have to alter their services in order to encourage people to stay put.

Alter how?

Privatise elements of education/healthcare? Refuse to allow dual citizenship? Revoke rights if people leave the country for more than an alloted time? Some sort of exit tax?

I don't know, I'm just speculating. But that's what I'm trying to get out of your fine minds.

Privatise elements of education/healthcare? Refuse to allow dual citizenship? Revoke rights if people leave the country for more than an alloted time? Some sort of exit tax?

Sounds like they'd make people want to leave and/or stay away once they do, not stay.

The way things are, you will at least have immigrants coming in searching for a better life and a couple generations later, their descendants will hate it there and look for somewhere better. You have become the New Jersey of nations. :)

People are coming to your country for a better life and a better education, then taking their education back to their home country to make it a better place.

Sounds like a good investment to me.

Edit: Though I'd like to point out, that I don't see much in the article about immigrants emigrating after an education.

Though a lot of the educated in Europe go to the US. Something about now that I am educated and can make a lot of money Fuck the taxes and paying for poor people's health care.

Though a lot of the educated in Europe go to the US.


Im sure you can back this up, right?

Though a lot of the educated in Europe go to the US. Something about now that I am educated and can make a lot of money Fuck the taxes and paying for poor people's health care.

Being educated doesn't make you smart. Americans pay much more per capita for health care than those covering more than just their own health care. Health care being private makes it more expensive.

Also: source.

Im sure you can back this up, right?

its an extrapolation. and the data is semi not related but does show relevance.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/2001-2005_imm_rate_US.PNG

note the UK net migration to the US is in the 1.0 to 2.99/per 1,000 category.
Where as the net migration rate is 2.16 1,000.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html
basically means the population that the UK gets in net immigration is pretty close to equal to the population the UK sends to the US.

Does severally limits populations returning to their home countries.

You also have Grave and Idle who moved to the US just because he hates nationalized health care.

its an extrapolation. and the data is semi not related but does show relevance.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/2001-2005_imm_rate_US.PNG

note the UK net migration to the US is in the 1.0 to 2.99/per 1,000 category.
Where as the net migration rate is 2.16 1,000.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html
basically means the population that the UK gets in net immigration is pretty close to equal to the population the UK sends to the US.

Does severally limits populations returning to their home countries.

You also have Grave and Idle who moved to the US just because he hates nationalized health care.

Where does this indicate the people immigrating to the US are a) educated b) doing so because of health care instead of other factors (i.e. family, available jobs et c)? As far as you know, the UK is slowly unloading all the idiots.

Also, I could point out that my parents moved from the US to Canada and they're both educated. I could also point to a number of people in my department who hold PhDs who once lived in the US who moved to Canada. Then there are fellow grad students who are from the US and now in Canada (or elsewhere, I just know more in Canada since this is where I am). For your one example I can think of at least 20 individuals who immigrated from the US to a country with universal health care holding advanced degrees (or well on their way to an advanced degree).

please reread the last sentence and think about this for a second.

please reread the last sentence and think about this for a second.

Your last sentence with one anecdotal account? How does this compare to my multiple anecdotal accounts of educated individuals moving the opposite direction?

Also, how does your anecdotal account indicate that *a lot of educated people* from countries with universal health care go to the US to avoid the universal health care. It indicates that *one person* moved to the US to avoid universal health care.

Your last sentence with one anecdotal account? How does this compare to my multiple anecdotal accounts?



This is still going over your head I see.
Please read Some of Grave and idle's post on health care

This is still going over your head I see.
Please read Some of Grave and idle's post on health care

I'm not digging up Grave and idle's post on health care. If you think it's relevant to your point, you find it and link it.

Further, you haven't explained how: one example of your point > many examples of mine and how your one example can be extrapolated to "a lot of" immigrants from countries with universal health care to the US. One individual case != a trend.

Maybe it is the cold medicine but i find this humorous.


Someone else briefly summarize Grave and Idle's view on health care.