NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/31/cult.child.death/index.html

You know, there is no framework in place within the legal system to deal with murdered people coming back to life. If someone you kill is resurrected, should you be released? Reduced sentence?

Quick! Somebody tell the Romans!

Python-esque but reasonable.

IIRC, drowning victims can be resuscitated up to an hour after death, so I'm surprised this hasn't come up before.

I figured that killing a person still counts as killing them even if they come back to life. They'd have to die first in order to be resurrected.

I figured that killing a person still counts as killing them even if they come back to life. They'd have to die first in order to be resurrected.

Yes, but wouldn't you expect temporary death to carry a lesser punishment than permanent death?

By the way, I think this conversation deserves consideration in the 'Weirdest Discussion in NSG History' category. ;)

Yes, but wouldn't you expect temporary death to carry a lesser punishment than permanent death?

By the way, I think this conversation deserves consideration in the 'Weirdest Discussion in NSG History' category. ;)

Oh, I reckon there have been better than this. Maybe not recently though.

Can we clarify as to the type of resurrection? I mean is it a resurrection where a 'reversal' takes place, as in the dead person becomes a live person again? Or is it a resurrection where say, the dead simply rises much like a zombie in a state of decomposition? If it happens to be the latter case then I'd say the accused is still guilty as the resurrected is merely undead, but still not 'alive'.

Yes, but wouldn't you expect temporary death to carry a lesser punishment than permanent death?

By the way, I think this conversation deserves consideration in the 'Weirdest Discussion in NSG History' category. ;)

Yeah, but then that means some enterprising next-gen serial killer is going to cryonically preserve his victims and argue that he deserves punishment for only temporary death. Where there's a will, there's a way...

Very sad. Yes I would think they would have to let her go. We would likely have a ton of questions. Probably a made for TV movie an all that.

Can we clarify as to the type of resurrection? I mean is it a resurrection where a 'reversal' takes place, as in the dead person becomes a live person again? Or is it a resurrection where say, the dead simply rises much like a zombie in a state of decomposition? If it happens to be the latter case then I'd say the accused is still guilty as the resurrected is merely undead, but still not 'alive'.

I don't know I have seen either recently, in fact, ever. Alright even zombies, under it own locomotion, no mechanical devices, other than the one he or she came with. I mean glasses, dentures, pacemaker are okay.

Yeah, but then that means some enterprising next-gen serial killer is going to cryonically preserve his victims and argue that he deserves punishment for only temporary death. Where there's a will, there's a way...

Well, they're dead. So one can't assume they'll be returned to life. But if they ARE returned to life, then he has a point because that was his expectation. Someone who kills with a genuine expectation of resurrection should receive a substantial reduction in sentence if his victim does indeed resurrect. On the other hand, a killer not expecting resurrection probably doesn't deserve much if any sentence reduction.

Of course, what do you do if you execute the killer in the meantime? :confused:

Of course, what do you do if you execute the killer in the meantime? :confused:

Take a wait and see approach.

So... is mass temporary murder still a war crime?

*plans army of the undead*

Of course, what do you do if you execute the killer in the meantime? :confused:

Add a 'resurrection clause' to their sentence?

Add a 'resurrection clause' to their sentence?

And let's ignore the victim for a moment:

What if the executed killer resurrects? Do you have to kill him again, or has he served his sentence?

Well, they're dead. So one can't assume they'll be returned to life. But if they ARE returned to life, then he has a point because that was his expectation. Someone who kills with a genuine expectation of resurrection should receive a substantial reduction in sentence if his victim does indeed resurrect. On the other hand, a killer not expecting resurrection probably doesn't deserve much if any sentence reduction.

Of course, what do you do if you execute the killer in the meantime? :confused:

I figure if a serial killer is capable of maintaining that defense he's not going to get the death penalty. He might even get an insanity plea out of it if it is a pretty damn good argument. I guess there's something to be said about mass murderers that preserve their victims for future resurrection...of course, maybe the goal is to kill them multiple times, in which case I applaud their sense of conservation and respect for precious human resources.

It's good to know that in these tough economic times even serial killers are doing their part.

I figure if a serial killer is capable of maintaining that defense he's not going to get the death penalty. He might even get an insanity plea out of it if it is a pretty damn good argument. I guess there's something to be said about mass murderers that preserve their victims for future resurrection...of course, maybe the goal is to kill them multiple times, in which case I applaud their sense of conservation and respect for precious human resources.

It's good to know that in these tough economic times even serial killers are doing their part.

http://z.hubpages.com/u/128302_f260.jpg

:)

What a horrific story.

What a horrific story.

It should be all good soon, Easter is coming up.

IIRC, drowning victims can be resuscitated up to an hour after death, so I'm surprised this hasn't come up before.
If you can get them hauled before the beak in less time than it takes to develop a roll of film, then go for it.

Actually, if you can do that I want you to run whatever country is is you live in, 'cause that'd be sweet :D

By the way, I think this conversation deserves consideration in the 'Weirdest Discussion in NSG History' category. ;)
* nominates :)

Quick! Somebody tell the Romans!

This was good.

Can we clarify as to the type of resurrection? I mean is it a resurrection where a 'reversal' takes place, as in the dead person becomes a live person again? Or is it a resurrection where say, the dead simply rises much like a zombie in a state of decomposition? If it happens to be the latter case then I'd say the accused is still guilty as the resurrected is merely undead, but still not 'alive'.
I find it odd that you would request any kind of clarification in regards to this matter.

Damn where did I put that manual for turning undead.....

I find it odd that you would request any kind of clarification in regards to this matter.

I guess what I was trying to get across was whether the resurrection alluded to meant that the victim could return as a normal functioning member of society or if the higher brain power was absent as in zombies and other resurrected beings and would therefore have to rely on society to function.

And let's ignore the victim for a moment:

What if the executed killer resurrects? Do you have to kill him again, or has he served his sentence?

and if he/she were married... would they still be married? after all, it's "Till Death do we part"...

and if he/she were married... would they still be married? after all, it's "Till Death do we part"...

What about debts?

What about debts?
Well, at least the person might be eligible for a "death tax" refund? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

But on the other hand might get charged with fraud, if any debts they had were "written off" due to the person's death?

But on the other hand might get charged with fraud, if any debts they had were "written off" due to the person's death?

Fraud that is punishable by death I say!

Well, at least the person might be eligible for a "death tax" refund? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

But on the other hand might get charged with fraud, if any debts they had were "written off" due to the person's death?

Is he? He did die afterall.

What about inheritance? Do your inheritors have to return your stuff?

You know, Resurrection causes all sorts of legal tangles, doesn't it?

Is he? He did die afterall.

What about inheritance? Do your inheritors have to return your stuff?

You know, Resurrection causes all sorts of legal tangles, doesn't it?
Especially if those resurrected are of the "meek" variety. :D

http://bible.cc/matthew/5-5.htm

Is he? He did die afterall.

What about inheritance? Do your inheritors have to return your stuff?

You know, Resurrection causes all sorts of legal tangles, doesn't it?

What about life insurance?

"See? It says here. I died. Now give me a lot of money."

What about life insurance?

"See? It says here. I died. Now give me a lot of money."

Well, your beneficiary collected. Could they take the money back?

Well, your beneficiary collected. Could they take the money back?

You've never set yourself to be the beneficiary of your own life insurance I see. Oh how they laughed when it was set down.

You've never set yourself to be the beneficiary of your own life insurance I see. Oh how they laughed when it was set down.

Well, you'll have to come back to life relatively quickly. If they process that, as is and you are still dead, it will all go to your next of kin instead. Then when you come back to life, you'll have to get the money from them. 3 days ought to be okay. Once again, a great lesson learned from Jesus. :)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/31/cult.child.death/index.html

You know, there is no framework in place within the legal system to deal with murdered people coming back to life. If someone you kill is resurrected, should you be released? Reduced sentence?

I think we need to remove the provisions that treat attempted murder as less of a crime than actual murder. Seriously, are you any less of a threat to society just because your victim was tough enough to survive your onslaught? If anything it should be punished worse. You've proven you'll take on anyone and try to kill them, and you also deserve to be punished because you suck.

This will only really become a problem if a bunch of Jews are executed for alleged treason, and then resurrect themselves, then go on and on about how each is the 'Son of God.'

Please, we already have to deal with one zombie deity, whose followers are fractured enough as it is. If more people start doing this I'm going to demand some well-documented, recorded, and scientifically investigated and recognized miracles.

Some of the legal issues raised bring to mind the stories of people who have been presumed dead and suddenly show up again.

The story in the OP is a tragedy though.

And what about marriages?

I know that when you die, the marriage terminates (til death do us part), but if you get resurrected again, are you 'divorced'? Or how to call it?

Also, this would seriously screw up relationships, besides having things like: single, married, widow.... you now have "ex-widow(er)", <fancy word for a person that terminated his/her marriage by dying>

Is he? He did die afterall.

What about inheritance? Do your inheritors have to return your stuff?

You know, Resurrection causes all sorts of legal tangles, doesn't it?

I think it would be considered a gift. You broke your promise to stay dead.

I think it would be considered a gift. You broke your promise to stay dead.

Not if your last words are "I'll be back."

Some of the legal issues raised bring to mind the stories of people who have been presumed dead and suddenly show up again.
True story I was taught in law school: a man in Britain was "presumed dead" after not being heard from for a decade, and the judge was interpreting his will. He decided about some tricky clause that "the testator must have intended [so-and-so]" and an old man from the back shouted "The testator intended no such thing!"
"Who are you, sir, and how dare you interrupt?"
"I'm the testator." Indeed, this proved to be the missing man. He had gone off to Australia, and had recently returned only because he wanted to wind up his affairs in England.
He was asked why he hadn't spoken up before, and said, "You were doing fine up until that last bit."

And what about marriages?

I know that when you die, the marriage terminates (til death do us part), but if you get resurrected again, are you 'divorced'? Or how to call it?

Also, this would seriously screw up relationships, besides having things like: single, married, widow.... you now have "ex-widow(er)", <fancy word for a person that terminated his/her marriage by dying>

That happens all the time usually the people are lost at sea or something. End up showing up on your doorstep 10 15 years latter.

I think you would still be divorced. Kind of like a write off.

True story I was taught in law school: a man in Britain was "presumed dead" after not being heard from for a decade, and the judge was interpreting his will. He decided about some tricky clause that "the testator must have intended [so-and-so]" and an old man from the back shouted "The testator intended no such thing!"
"Who are you, sir, and how dare you interrupt?"
"I'm the testator." Indeed, this proved to be the missing man. He had gone off to Australia, and had recently returned only because he wanted to wind up his affairs in England.
He was asked why he hadn't spoken up before, and said, "You were doing fine up until that last bit."

Awesome. Just want to hear what all you people would say about me.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/31/cult.child.death/index.html

You know, there is no framework in place within the legal system to deal with murdered people coming back to life. If someone you kill is resurrected, should you be released? Reduced sentence?

try remanded to THEIR custody, just for giggles.