NationStates Jolt Archive

Mitt Romney, perhaps the biggest political prostitute of all time, is, unfortunately, planning (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_re_us/romney) a 2012 bid for the White House. In regards to the thread title, there is, of course, nothing wrong with changing your position on an issue for a legitimate reason. But frequently changing your positions just to get elected, like this political whore does, just shows what a shallow unprincipled scumbag he is. He has no platform of his own, changing his opinions to go with the flow of what's popular, and wants nothing more than to be President.

Say what you will about Obama and McCain (and I have plenty of bad things to say about both, but that's a subject for another time), but at least they have actual positions of their own, for the most part. They don't let public opinion shape their every view (I'm not saying public opinion should be disregarded, just that it shouldn't be the only reason one changes one's views).

Thoughts?

he's planning to run. he may just decide not to run in 2012.

there is, of course, nothing wrong with changing your position on an issue for a legitimate reason. But frequently changing your positions just to get elected, like this political whore does, just shows what a shallow unprincipled scumbag he is. He has no platform of his own, changing his opinions to go with the flow of what's popular, and wants nothing more than to be President.

Every politician does that. Obama lied about his feelings concerning homosexual marriage, lied about immediately leaving Iraq, lied about cutting spending. Any candidate with half-a-brain knows to alter his opinions to suit public taste.

I couldn't give a toss about anything to do with 2012, and all talk of it should be banned. I've only just stopped having to tolerate constant whining about the last election.

Thoughts?

No, thanks... ;)

Thoughts?

That the next presidential election is 3 years away, can't we have a break for five fucking minutes?

Every politician does that. Obama lied about his feelings concerning homosexual marriage, lied about immediately leaving Iraq, lied about cutting spending. Any candidate with half-a-brain knows to alter his opinions to suit public taste.

Of course, but Romney changes his opinions on everything, with far greater frequency than most other politicians combined.

Thoughts?

That the next presidential election is 3 years away, can't we have a break for five fucking minutes?

Can we get an amen?

Thoughts?

That the next presidential election is 3 years away, can't we have a break for five fucking minutes?

:fluffle::hail:

Of course, but Romney changes his opinions on everything, with far greater frequency than most other politicians combined.

If he wins, it worked, if he does not, tough. He seems like he would actually cut spending--one never can tell, though. I was stupid enough to believe Obama would cut, rather than increase, the military budget. :D

Privileged Mormonrous son of an auto executive-cum-governor with severe daddy issues, who will stop at no end to finally outdo his father and make him proud from Mormon heaven.

Romney is disgusting.

If he wins, it worked, if he does not, tough. He seems like he would actually cut spending--one never can tell, though. I was stupid enough to believe Obama would cut, rather than increase, the military budget. :D

Even though Obama explicitly said he planned to increase the size of the military during his campaign?

Even though Obama explicitly said he planned to increase the size of the military during his campaign?

Yes. Many of the things he said were lies, so I guessed.

on a lighter note, conservative christian radio talk show hosts have decided to attack mitt romney via ANNE COULTER, giving her a ration of shit for supporting him last time in interviews about her new book.

this link http://coloradoindependent.com/25233/ann-coulter-bushwacked-on-radio-by-conservative-christian-abortion-foes

has a video attached with clips from various interviews she has done. she gets pretty exasperated by the end.

on a lighter note, conservative christian radio talk show hosts have decided to attack mitt romney via ANNE COULTER, giving her a ration of shit for supporting him last time in interviews about her new book.

this link http://coloradoindependent.com/25233/ann-coulter-bushwacked-on-radio-by-conservative-christian-abortion-foes

has a video attached with clips from various interviews she has done. she gets pretty exasperated by the end.

Whom would they prefer? Huckabee?

on a lighter note, conservative christian radio talk show hosts have decided to attack mitt romney via ANNE COULTER, giving her a ration of shit for supporting him last time in interviews about her new book.

this link http://coloradoindependent.com/25233/ann-coulter-bushwacked-on-radio-by-conservative-christian-abortion-foes

has a video attached with clips from various interviews she has done. she gets pretty exasperated by the end.
Well that does kind of make it worthwhile. :D

Still, I do wonder how the hell Romney got into our reality and what it will take to crowbar his opportunistic ass out of it again.

Can we get an amen?

Sorry, fresh out. :(

Whom would they prefer? Huckabee?

Huckabee scares the shit out of me.

Huckabee scares the shit out of me.

http://www.totaldiatribe.com/img/huckabeekalima.jpg

By 2012, it will have been 5 years since he held any sort of elected position, presuming he doesn't try and get some sort of springboard position between now and then. Figuring that, and figuring the disgraceful way he exited his most recent elected position, AND figuring how he was totally unelectable by the Republicans this most recent election, what on god's green earth makes him think he'll be electable in 2012?

http://www.totaldiatribe.com/img/huckabeekalima.jpg

lol!

By 2012, it will have been 5 years since he held any sort of elected position, presuming he doesn't try and get some sort of springboard position between now and then. Figuring that, and figuring the disgraceful way he exited his most recent elected position, AND figuring how he was totally unelectable by the Republicans this most recent election, what on god's green earth makes him think he'll be electable in 2012?

I think that's the problem most of the "tier 2" republicans like Romney and Palin will have. Either Obama will do well, in which case he'll pretty much steamroll over anyone the republicans come up with. Or he'll do poorly, in which case the higher ranking republicans will pretty much crowd out the lesser members of the party, seeing their chance.

The only way Romney or Palin or the like will see their names on the ticket will be as the 2012 version of Bob Dole. Thrown to the wolves against a popular president, to be bruised, beaten, and politically humiliated, and in the end, cleared out of the way.

Well that does kind of make it worthwhile. :D

Still, I do wonder how the hell Romney got into our reality and what it will take to crowbar his opportunistic ass out of it again.

Complete and utter tangent, but this particular turn of phrase made me wonder - have you ever read the Thursday Next books? :p

Can we get an amen?

http://www.judaistik.se/media/blogs/blogg//Amen-Brother.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4MVEUYCC_qI/R-k0yNW8-ZI/AAAAAAAAB5E/7hlc1B2owoU/s400/Mitt+Romney.gif

:D

http://www.judaistik.se/media/blogs/blogg//Amen-Brother.jpg

lol, awesome. Btw, I like your display pic, too. Unfortunately, now I always picture you looking like Clark Kent. :tongue:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4MVEUYCC_qI/R-k0yNW8-ZI/AAAAAAAAB5E/7hlc1B2owoU/s400/Mitt+Romney.gif

:D

You win the thread. Have a taco.

No, actually, have all of them. :D

Why are we just discussing Romney? I thought the post was on greatest flip flop of all time. I would think someone like Hugo Chavez would be way more of a flip flopper than a guy who tried running for president and failed.
Anyway quit your complianing about Romney and don't be worried about him either. He won't win and the biggest reason he won't win is for the fact that he is a Mormon. Had he been Christian, he would have had a much better chance to win the last election.
Lastly Huckabee is alright of a guy but shouldn't and won't be president either. 2012 seems like a dead giveaway to Obama.
Look at the 2004 election. Bush who had a terrible approval rating and could have been beaten bad wasn't because true politicians like Obama waited for Bush to get out of office before they tried. Kerry was one who was bold enough to try but honestly was anyone excited for Kerry?
Besides it worked out better for everybody. Bush won which made Republicans happy for four years and then Obama won which made Democrats happy for the next 4 but most likely 8 years. Kerry's victory would have been bad for everybody.
My opinion anyway.

You win the thread. Have a taco.

No, actually, have all of them. :D

Yum! *munches*

I say...

anyone announcing plans for a presidential run when there is MORE THAN 2 YEARS before the next presidential election... will be stripped of all their money and assets and it will be distributed to all other citizens of the USA.

Why are we just discussing Romney? I thought the post was on greatest flip flop of all time. I would think someone like Hugo Chavez would be way more of a flip flopper than a guy who tried running for president and failed.
Anyway quit your complianing about Romney and don't be worried about him either. He won't win and the biggest reason he won't win is for the fact that he is a Mormon. Had he been Christian, he would have had a much better chance to win the last election.
Lastly Huckabee is alright of a guy but shouldn't and won't be president either. 2012 seems like a dead giveaway to Obama.
Look at the 2004 election. Bush who had a terrible approval rating and could have been beaten bad wasn't because true politicians like Obama waited for Bush to get out of office before they tried. Kerry was one who was bold enough to try but honestly was anyone excited for Kerry?
Besides it worked out better for everybody. Bush won which made Republicans happy for four years and then Obama won which made Democrats happy for the next 4 but most likely 8 years. Kerry's victory would have been bad for everybody.
My opinion anyway.

Mormons are Christians. Sort of.

Mormons are Christians. Sort of.

No, Mormons have silly beliefs. :wink:

. . . he is a Mormon. Had he been Christian. . .

Fail.

lol, awesome. Btw, I like your display pic, too. Unfortunately, now I always picture you looking like Clark Kent. :tongue:

I can live with that ;) :tongue:

Fail.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/30/128698749073035096.jpg

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/30/128698749073035096.jpg

Failblog win.

Actually Mormonism isn't Christian. Christianity believes in a Trinitarian God, one God and three persons. Mormonism does not it believes in numerous gods.
My point was that Americans look down on Mormonism as though it were a cult.
Wasn't an attack on Mormonism.

Actually Mormonism isn't Christian. Christianity believes in a Trinitarian God, one God and three persons. Mormonism does not it believes in numerous gods.
My point was that Americans look down on Mormonism as though it were a cult.
Wasn't an attack on Mormonism.

Mormons believe in Christ as their savior. That makes them christians.

Mormons are Christians. Sort of.

No, Mormons have silly beliefs.
Right, since when are the two mutually exclusive?

Romney: "I support Gay rights in the military..."
Pollmeister: "Public polls suggest that most people support 'Don't ask, don't tell'..."
Romney: "... To shut the hell up!":D

Actually Mormonism isn't Christian. Christianity believes in a Trinitarian God, one God and three persons. Mormonism does not it believes in numerous gods.
My point was that Americans look down on Mormonism as though it were a cult.
Wasn't an attack on Mormonism.

Christians believe in the divinity of Christ.
Mormons believe in the divinity of Christ.
Ergo Mormons are Christians.

Actually Mormonism isn't Christian. Christianity believes in a Trinitarian God, one God and three persons. Mormonism does not it believes in numerous gods.
My point was that Americans look down on Mormonism as though it were a cult.
Wasn't an attack on Mormonism.
you are confusing non-christians and heretics.

mormons are christian heretics because of those beliefs. to call them non-christian makes no sense since they DO worship jesus.

Creeds are statements of faith. It comes from the latin credo meaning I believe. Christianity has three creeds: The apostles creed, the nicene creed, and the athanasian creed. These creeds are statements of belief of Christianity.
If you were to look at the athanasian creed, you would see it deals greatly with the trinity as a central part of christianity. Jesus being God is actually quite important in the Christian belief.
The last line of this creed says.
And this is the catholic (universal, christian) faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
Thats why mormons aren't christians.

Actually Mormonism isn't Christian.

Yes, it is.

Christianity believes in a Trinitarian God, one God and three persons. Mormonism does not it believes in numerous gods.

no "Christianity" believes in no such thing. The sole central tenant in Christianity is the divinity of Jesus Christ. The rest is just a difference in dogma.

Creeds are statements of faith. It comes from the latin credo meaning I believe. Christianity has three creeds: The apostles creed, the nicene creed, and the athanasian creed. These creeds are statements of belief of Christianity.
If you were to look at the athanasian creed, you would see it deals greatly with the trinity as a central part of christianity. Jesus being God is actually quite important in the Christian belief.
The last line of this creed says.
And this is the catholic (universal, christian) faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
Thats why mormons aren't christians.
no bob. thats why they are christian heretics (in the opinion of the sects that accept your creeds)

all that you need to be christian is a belief in jesus.

ok christ's divinity means he is God correct?
according to scripture or the bible. "I, the lord your God, the lord is one" from the old testament. God is one. Jews are monotheistic and Christians are monotheistic. Christians view Christ as God, the same God who created the world and the same God who one must believe in to enter heaven.
Mormons believe Jesus did save them but do not believe he is the same God of the old testament. They are polytheistic in respects because they believe in many gods. If Christ is God and the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God all seperate beings, all not the same God. Then Mormons believe in 3 Gods. But if you were to examine them closer you would find that they believe way more radical ideas throughout their years.
They are not Christian, just as Gnostics weren't Christian and just as Jehovahs witnesses are not Christian.
I have nothing against different dogmas within Christianity, I'm just stating a fact based off evidence.

Right, since when are the two mutually exclusive?

You neglected to notice my smiley.

Poe.

Um...I don't think that word means what you think it means. Did you just see people saying it before and feel like joining in?

Um...I don't think that word means what you think it means. Did you just see people saying it before and feel like joining in?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe

First definition.

ok christ's divinity means he is God correct?
according to scripture or the bible. "I, the lord your God, the lord is one" from the old testament. God is one. Jews are monotheistic and Christians are monotheistic. Christians view Christ as God, the same God who created the world and the same God who one must believe in to enter heaven.
Mormons believe Jesus did save them but do not believe he is the same God of the old testament. They are polytheistic in respects because they believe in many gods. If Christ is God and the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God all seperate beings, all not the same God. Then Mormons believe in 3 Gods. But if you were to examine them closer you would find that they believe way more radical ideas throughout their years.
They are not Christian, just as Gnostics weren't Christian and just as Jehovahs witnesses are not Christian.
I have nothing against different dogmas within Christianity, I'm just stating a fact based off evidence.

Except apparently you do have something against different dogmas within Christianity, because you want to claim that Mormons and gnostics and Jehovah's Witnesses don't "count." There's no difference between what you're doing and declaring that someone isn't really Jewish because, despite going to temple every Saturday and thinking of himself as Jewish, he sometimes eats ham sandwiches, and you, Random Internet Guy, have arbitrarily decided that the kosher laws are the defining quality of Judaism. A CHRISTian is someone who believes in CHRIST, not "someone who believes whatever Random Internet Guy's church told him Christians were supposed to believe."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe

First definition.

I'm sorry, I was wrong. I'm now absolutely SURE you don't understand what it means.

Of course, I just found that I used a smiley (which was not quoted), and as you can see, I altered my statement.

Mormonism is just another version of Christianity in a long loooooong list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Christians)

Of course, I just found that I used a smiley (which was not quoted), and as you can see, I altered my statement.

which still doesn't in any way make his statement that of a "poe" because it has NOTHING to do with "poe's law". So I still contend you don't understand what it means.

ok christ's divinity means he is God correct?
according to scripture or the bible. "I, the lord your God, the lord is one" from the old testament. God is one. Jews are monotheistic and Christians are monotheistic. Christians view Christ as God, the same God who created the world and the same God who one must believe in to enter heaven.
Mormons believe Jesus did save them but do not believe he is the same God of the old testament. They are polytheistic in respects because they believe in many gods. If Christ is God and the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God all seperate beings, all not the same God. Then Mormons believe in 3 Gods. But if you were to examine them closer you would find that they believe way more radical ideas throughout their years.
They are not Christian, just as Gnostics weren't Christian and just as Jehovahs witnesses are not Christian.
I have nothing against different dogmas within Christianity, I'm just stating a fact based off evidence.
no bob.

there were christians from the beginning who did not believe in the trinity, who did not believe in the divinity of jesus, who did not believe that the god of the old testament was the ultimate god.

they were all christians.

as are mormons, jehova's witnesses, seventh day adventists, and any other number of christian sects that dont follow the traditional theology.

which still doesn't in any way make his statement that of a "poe" because it has NOTHING to do with "poe's law". So I still contend you don't understand what it means.

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

I was parodying Christians who say that Mormons have absurd beliefs. I was claiming Poe's Law on myself.

My point was this pal. I'm not saying that only my denomination of Christianity is the only true Christian. I believe Catholics are christians, Baptists are christians, etc.
My point is that they don't believe in the trinity meaning they don't truly believe Jesus is God. Jehovahs witnesses don't even claim to be Christian in that regards, they claim Jesus was created by God, a form of subordinationism, so he is lesser than God. Gnosticism was a heresy of the olden times, one not really believed today I don't believe.
Look I like Mormons, I chat with Mormons, debate religion with mormons, own a book of mormon, and have studied mormonism. I'm saying they are not christians just like muslims aren't christians.

:fluffle::hail:

^ Seconded. :)

Whom would they prefer? Huckabee?

Oh hell no! After his cockamamie plot from the '08 primary to begin what could certainly pass for a transition to theocracy? I'd seriously consider leaving the country.

Oh hell no! After his cockamamie plot from the '08 primary to begin what could certainly pass for a transition to theocracy? I'd seriously consider leaving the country.

http://midwesterngentleman.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/lolhuckabee2.jpg

My point is that they don't believe in the trinity meaning they don't truly believe Jesus is God.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Christian.shtml#how

How can you be Christian? Don't you believe that your are saved by works? Don't you deny the basic truth of the Trinity?

We are Christian because we look to Christ for salvation and worship Him and the Father. We are not saved by our works, but through the grace of Christ (as explained more fully below). We believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as the members of the Godhead, being one in purpose, heart, and intent. I discuss these issues more fully below, noting that we do differ from many churches in our theology. Although I may disagree with the theology of some other Christians, that gives me no right to say that they are not Christians because they don't see things the way I do. If someone looks to Christ for salvation and seeks to follow Him, in my mind, that's enough to qualify as being a Christian, regardless of other theological differences.

Sounds like they believe in a trinity to me.

My point was this pal. I'm not saying that only my denomination of Christianity is the only true Christian. I believe Catholics are christians, Baptists are christians, etc.
My point is that they don't believe in the trinity meaning they don't truly believe Jesus is God. Jehovahs witnesses don't even claim to be Christian in that regards, they claim Jesus was created by God, a form of subordinationism, so he is lesser than God. Gnosticism was a heresy of the olden times, one not really believed today I don't believe.
Look I like Mormons, I chat with Mormons, debate religion with mormons, own a book of mormon, and have studied mormonism. I'm saying they are not christians just like muslims aren't christians.
it doesnt matter bob

you are using a faulty definition of christian.

trinity in purpose only they believe. they take the verse christians use against them. Jesus saying "I and the father are one" and they make it mean to them, one in purpose but hey I understand the dynamics of religion and how everything has debates and such. I wasn't going to fight this one my point was on Romney not on Mormonism.
Anyways that's cool guys I'll debate Mormonism later. I'll leave it be.

http://midwesterngentleman.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/lolhuckabee2.jpg

:D :hail:

If I weren't in class, I'd be laughing my ass off!

Complete and utter tangent, but this particular turn of phrase made me wonder - have you ever read the Thursday Next books? :p
Why, no, I haven't.

trinity in purpose only they believe. they take the verse christians use against them. Jesus saying "I and the father are one" and they make it mean to them, one in purpose but hey I understand the dynamics of religion and how everything has debates and such. I wasn't going to fight this one my point was on Romney not on Mormonism.
Anyways that's cool guys I'll debate Mormonism later. I'll leave it be.

Different denominations and schisms are caused by differences of interpretation. It doesn't make the break off groups any less christian.

Your best bet, at least to me, would be to tackle it from the prophet angle. Wasn't there a verse about there not being any new prophets, yet the mormon church has prophets even now?


Yea the topic was about Romney, but obviously he is not that interesting or we wouldn't be here. :tongue:;)

Mitt Romney, perhaps the biggest political prostitute of all time, is, unfortunately, planning (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_re_us/romney) a 2012 bid for the White House. In regards to the thread title, there is, of course, nothing wrong with changing your position on an issue for a legitimate reason. But frequently changing your positions just to get elected, like this political whore does, just shows what a shallow unprincipled scumbag he is. He has no platform of his own, changing his opinions to go with the flow of what's popular, and wants nothing more than to be President.

Say what you will about Obama and McCain (and I have plenty of bad things to say about both, but that's a subject for another time), but at least they have actual positions of their own, for the most part. They don't let public opinion shape their every view (I'm not saying public opinion should be disregarded, just that it shouldn't be the only reason one changes one's views).

Thoughts?

Question: How many times will he flop-flop on running between now and November 2011? (let alone 2012!)

I don't think he can beat Obama, unless things really get worse in the next four years. The man couldn't even take McCain, despite the money he poured into his Presidential bid. Huckabee is the one that scares me most in terms of actually having a chance.

Though I would enjoy the historical irony, given the Mormon Church's historical views of African Americans, of a black man beating Romney's ass.

And yes, I know the Mormons changed those views officially, though I'm pretty sure it was to keep their tax exempt status.

Its still 2009. Are you fucking kidding me?

Its still 2009. Are you fucking kidding me?

Politics never stops.

Its still 2009. Are you fucking kidding me?
It's the GOP. The way they've self-destructed, alas, I'm thinking "no".

It's like the Tories in '97...only with more "ebil muzlem lulz".