NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000009664.cfm

"There is a real danger that Plan B may be given to sexually abused women and minors, under coercion or without their consent," Gacek said. "The availability of Plan B over the counter also bypasses the routine medical care of sexually active girls and women, which is important to allow screening for other health conditions."

is this a good idea?

if there are no cookies then definatly not.

Yep.

Makes sense to me. The OP is just a Christian radical.

Makes sense to me. The OP is just a Christian radical.

me? im not christian

Makes sense to me. The OP is just a Christian radical.

This.

http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000009664.cfm



is this a good idea?
its an excellent idea.

me? im not christian

Alright, then you're a right wing radical. Whatever.

http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000009664.cfm



is this a good idea?

No, this sounds dangerous. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeXOg8G06Aw&feature=related) Making Plan B available over the counter makes good sense.

It's better for a girl's health than a wire coat hanger is. And wire coat hangers are freely available.

Yup, great idea - far better than teenage girls having the child or having to have an abortion because they were 'afraid' too scared to admit to their parents they were having sex. Also far better than girls being pressured by parents that if they get pregnant, tough they'll have to keep it.

Seriously, the best argument they can come up with is 'abused girls may be forced to take it'? As if by not being able to take it suddenly the issue of abuse is going to mysteriously disappear? Far better to actually look at stopping the abuse in the first place by creating a culture whereby girls aren't afraid to come forward and the social services and the police have the funding to investigate reported incidents.

me? im not christian

What religion are you a member of?

Allowing for "Plan B" to be available is an exceedingly excellent idea. Of course, it should be done in conjunction with a pro-active, comprehensive sexual education program that gives all young people the correct information about their sexual health, such as intimate hygiene and the like. The same group should also be educated about choices available to them in terms sexual behaviour, ranging from conservative ideas such as celibacy and abstinence to fully consensual and possibly kinky sex.

Clearly the OP prefers the "Josef Fritzl" route, where the abused gives birth and the baby is incinerated.

Clearly the OP prefers the "Josef Fritzl" route, where the abused gives birth and the baby is incinerated.

Flamebaiting is never a good idea. Knock it off.

Flamebaiting is never a good idea. Knock it off.

I just can't be allowed to win, can I?

Though it would be a tad amusing to see Vanishing_shame flaming. :tongue:

*ahem* Yet I must agree with the wise words of the moderators.

*ahem* Yet I must agree with the wise words of the moderators.

Oh please, if I came on here and said "North Korea is bad", everybody would start raving about what a great job Kim Jong-Il has done with the place.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

Oh please, if I came on here and said "North Korea is bad", everybody would start raving about what a great job Kim Jong-Il has done with the place.

Anyway, this is off-topic.
try it. see what happens.

not here. start a new thread.

I hope extensive testing was done. and the Xantac decible won't be repeated.

I hope extensive testing was done. and the Xantac decible won't be repeated.
did you mean "debacle"?

I hope extensive testing was done. and the Xantac decible won't be repeated.

Debacle?

did you mean "debacle"?

Debacle?
yeah... that word. :p

This sounds about as dangerous as handing out condoms in Africa... as in, not at all and probably a very good idea.

This sounds about as dangerous as handing out condoms in Africa... as in, not at all and probably a very good idea.

And meeting with similarly silly arguments against.

Good analogy.

This sounds about as dangerous as handing out condoms in Africa... as in, not at all and probably a very good idea.

Agreed! The only "dangers" I can see are:

1. Some few girls may be tempted to have unprotected sex more often, leading to a rise in veneral disease.

2. The medication may have some as yet undiscovered side effects.

Other than those two caviats, I see this as a "good thing."

Oh please, if I came on here and said "North Korea is bad", everybody would start raving about what a great job Kim Jong-Il has done with the place.

So now you're insulting Dear Leader, eh?

This sounds about as dangerous as handing out condoms in Africa... as in, not at all and probably a very good idea.

^this

http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000009664.cfm

is this a good idea?

Yes, this is a good idea.

If this is the best 'excuse' for acting against Plan B, then it's basically an admission that 'sorry, we got nothing'.

Agreed! The only "dangers" I can see are:

1. Some few girls may be tempted to have unprotected sex more often, leading to a rise in veneral disease.

2. The medication may have some as yet undiscovered side effects.

Other than those two caviats, I see this as a "good thing."

I thought it was Caveat, from Caveat Emptor, "Let the buyer beware"?:confused:

The only objectionable part, IMO, is this (the bolded part):

"There is a real danger that Plan B may be given to sexually abused women and minors, under coercion or without their consent," Gacek said. "The availability of Plan B over the counter also bypasses the routine medical care of sexually active girls and women, which is important to allow screening for other health conditions."

The only objectionable part, IMO, is this (the bolded part):

Yes, but look at the context - they're worried about the moral implications of giving it to women that... have been being abused?

Where's the outrage dripping from the word 'abused'? No - fuck that, it's the possibility that someone might not be forced to carry a not-yet-implanted egg to term that's the big deal, let's not worry about the rapes and abuses.

Yes, but look at the context - they're worried about the moral implications of giving it to women that... have been being abused?

Of course they should be given it, if they want it. Not just if they're abused, but for whatever reason (or lack thereof); if they want it, they should be able to get it.

Of course they should be given it, if they want it. Not just if they're abused, but for whatever reason (or lack thereof); if they want it, they should be able to get it.

Yes - but you seem to be missing the point.

"There is a real danger that Plan B may be given to sexually abused women and minors, under coercion or without their consent,"

Sexually abused women and minors.

Oh, but they might not 'consent' to the drug?

Because they were like 'fuck, yeah' about getting abused?

"It's time for plan B."
"We have a plan B?"
"No, but it's time for one."

Oh, but they might not 'consent' to the drug?

Because they were like 'fuck, yeah' about getting abused?

Of course not.

Edit: Regarding the latter sentence.

If this is the best 'excuse' for acting against Plan B, then it's basically an admission that 'sorry, we got nothing'.

Isnt that basically where the religious right has been on the topic of birth control for a while?

said Chris Gacek, senior fellow for regulatory affairs at the Family Research Council

The Family Research Council (FRC) is a Christian right non-profit think tank and lobbying organization.

Chris Gacek's opinion is irrelevant.

"Judge Korman has accepted all of the claims of a political ideology promoting sexual license for teens."
And a hypocrite.

Oh please, if I came on here and said "North Korea is bad", everybody would start raving about what a great job Kim Jong-Il has done with the place.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

KIM JONG-IL SANGUNIM MAN-SE!! MAN-SE!!!

*sets you on fire*

How dare you blaspheme the Juche idea!

is this a good idea?

Definitely yes, it is.

The quoted article says:
'This ruling jeopardizes girls' health and the ability of parents to care for their daughters' physical and emotional well-being.'

1."This ruling jeopardizes girls' health".
False. This drug has been approved by the competent offices so if taken correctly (drugs aren't candy) it should have no negative side effects.
Also, it doesn't jeopardize a girl's health more than an unwanted pregnancy, in a woman who's yet psychologically unready to carry it, does.

2."This ruling jeopardizes the ability of parents to care..."
False. If the parents had been able to care for their daughters' physical and emotional well-being SHE WOULD NOT BE PREGNANT FER CRYIN' OUT LOUD! Why didn't they teach her birth control and safe sex?

To sum it up, as usual: HER body, HER choice.
And the State should do ANYTHING to support a pregnant woman: both if she decides to carry on the pregnancy and if she decides not to.

I would be very much in favour of this being a Plan B in Britain, were it not for one tiny prblem, namely that it already appears to be Plan A.

I would be very much in favour of this being a Plan B in Britain, were it not for one tiny prblem, namely that it already appears to be Plan A.

Morning-after contraception is now the UK's leading method of avoiding unwanted pregnancy?

That sounds like it's either hyperbolic bullshit, or.... no - I'm going to have to go with that.

I would be very much in favour of this being a Plan B in Britain, were it not for one tiny prblem, namely that it already appears to be Plan A.

Got any stats to back that up? The idea that a majority of women take Plan B instead of using other birth control methods such as condoms, the pill, or IUDs first?

Got any stats to back that up? The idea that a majority of women take Plan B instead of using other birth control methods such as condoms, the pill, or IUDs first?

And it's not like contraception is hard to get in the UK, like it might be in some parts of the US.

2."This ruling jeopardizes the ability of parents to care..."
False. If the parents had been able to care for their daughters' physical and emotional well-being SHE WOULD NOT BE PREGNANT FER CRYIN' OUT LOUD! Why didn't they teach her birth control and safe sex?

Except if she was raped or something, and you know girls still taught about birth control and safe sex can still fall pregnant anyway.

To sum it up, as usual: HER body, HER choice.
And the State should do ANYTHING to support a pregnant woman: both if she decides to carry on the pregnancy and if she decides not to.

But, I am not disagreeing with this.

Except if she was raped or something, and you know girls still taught about birth control and safe sex can still fall pregnant anyway.
Also, birth control is NOT 100% even in perfect use, it's much less effective in "typical use" which is sadly typical of the teenage population.

And it's not like contraception is hard to get in the UK, like it might be in some parts of the US.

Well that's right.

Although, in Australia, apparently contraception is getting harder to get with some chemists following the US path and refusing to sell it on moral grounds. It really makes me quite scared for the future of our country.

Well that's right.

Although, in Australia, apparently contraception is getting harder to get with some chemists following the US path and refusing to sell it on moral grounds. It really makes me quite scared for the future of our country.

Whereabouts? There are condoms on the supermarket shelves in my city, and Pill prescriptions or implants a short wait at the (free) clinics. There may be some chemists digging their heels in about the morning-after pill, but other than that, none of my kids or their friends have had any trouble. (True, they're now all 16+, which may explain it.)

Not asking for specifics, you understand, but ... country town?

Clearly the OP prefers the "Josef Fritzl" route, where the abused gives birth and the baby is incinerated.

Because there's totally enough evidence to back up that comment. I mean, it's not like you're just making stupid shit up or anything.

Allowing for "Plan B" to be available is an exceedingly excellent idea. Of course, it should be done in conjunction with a pro-active, comprehensive sexual education program that gives all young people the correct information about their sexual health, such as intimate hygiene and the like. The same group should also be educated about choices available to them in terms sexual behaviour, ranging from conservative ideas such as celibacy and abstinence to fully consensual and possibly kinky sex.

Like that'll happen in the US...

Like that'll happen in the US...

It should. You have a high percentage of unwanted preganancies, and a large part of those are by teen mothers.

It should. You have a high percentage of unwanted preganancies, and a large part of those are by teen mothers.

Yes, but comprehensive sex education would make sense, save money, and reduce the problem. Therefore, we can't do that.

Yes, but comprehensive sex education would make sense, save money, and reduce the problem. Therefore, we can't do that.

Although I agree with you, Plan B is still a good thing to have over the counter.

Although I agree with you, Plan B is still a good thing to have over the counter.

That makes too much logical sense and therefore cannot be allowed to happen. If we do that, people will start to make their own choices. :eek:

That makes too much logical sense and therefore cannot be allowed to happen. If we do that, people will start to make their own choices. :eek:

*pounces of the mod kitty*
And how is that bad, Kryo-sama, nya?:eek:

*pounces of the mod kitty*
And how is that bad, Kryo-sama, nya?:eek:

Well, Nana-chan, it goes against 'group-think'. It's never good to go against 'group-think'. People may actually start forming their own opinions, and that is something avoidable through the convenient use of 'group-think'. ;)

People could have tacos forced on them against their will. Take tacos off the shelves!

Although I agree with you, Plan B is still a good thing to have over the counter.

Since I don't know much about female contraceptive choices, I ask. How many days (give or take) does Plan B work, and what are the consequences if used later than that, or later than it was originally intended?

It should. You have a high percentage of unwanted preganancies, and a large part of those are by teen mothers.
Contraception and options like Plan B will allow slutty females to have sex without consequences.

Not that anybody is saying that pregnancy should be a punishment, mind you, because babies are wonderful and awesome and every single woman always wants them. It's just that females who have sex should be forced to carry pregnancies to term regardless of their wishes.

Which is not a punishment.

Babies are adorable.

The end.

Since I don't know much about female contraceptive choices, I ask. How many days (give or take) does Plan B work, and what are the consequences if used later than that, or later than it was originally intended?

Plan B can be taken up to 72 hours after intercourse. If you take it later than that, it doesn't work. The consequences are that it won't work. It's not an abortion pill.

Contraception and options like Plan B will allow slutty females to have sex without consequences.

Not that anybody is saying that pregnancy should be a punishment, mind you, because babies are wonderful and awesome and every single woman always wants them. It's just that females who have sex should be forced to carry pregnancies to term regardless of their wishes.

Which is not a punishment.

Babies are adorable.

The end.


In a way I agree with you, but I hate the thought of the government meddling with the people's right to choose...

Plan B can be taken up to 72 hours after intercourse. If you take it later than that, it doesn't work. The consequences are that it won't work. It's not an abortion pill.

Depending on your particular definition of abortion, of course.

However, it doesn't cause any complications if used reasonably incorrectly? I only ask because this is basically the reasoning behind prescribing many medications, is that they have to be used in a certain way for a certain condition, and if they aren't, they can be harmful (or deadly) to the person.

Depending on your particular definition of abortion, of course.

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. It's not subjective; it's a medical term.


However, it doesn't cause any complications if used reasonably incorrectly? I only ask because this is basically the reasoning behind prescribing many medications, is that they have to be used in a certain way for a certain condition, and if they aren't, they can be harmful (or deadly) to the person.
"If used incorrectly" is very general.

I'm sure if somebody sat around eating Plan B all day for a month, they'd have some ill effects.

But realistically speaking, no, there are no serious risks from taking Plan B "incorrectly." There is no medical reason why Plan B should require a prescription.

Since I don't know much about female contraceptive choices, I ask. How many days (give or take) does Plan B work, and what are the consequences if used later than that, or later than it was originally intended?

Plan B needs to be used within 72 hours of intercourse. It will serve to prevent the egg, if it became fertilised, from implanting in the uterine. It is essentially a highly concentrated birth control pill. While the regular birth control pill is taken over the course of a month with the intent of inhibiting any change of contraception. If used past the 72 hours, it becomes less effective and essentially fails, at which point, you better start planning. Of course, one could be lucky and nothing will happen; not all fertilised eggs make it to the next stage, which is implanting itself in the uterine. It's not actually an abortion pill; it's an inhibitor. It prevents the egg, if it became fertilised, from becoming more than a fertilised egg; it allows the female body to treat the egg as a regular period.

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. It's not subjective; it's a medical term.

Yes, well, I'm not getting into this with you again. I just want to know about side effects and possible consequences of reasonable misuse. This is the standard that we have for over-the-counter vs prescription medications.

Well, Nana-chan, it goes against 'group-think'. It's never good to go against 'group-think'. People may actually start forming their own opinions, and that is something avoidable through the convenient use of 'group-think'. ;)

I don't like the hive-mind.:(

Yes, well, I'm not getting into this with you again. I just want to know about side effects and possible consequences of reasonable misuse. This is the standard that we have for over-the-counter vs prescription medications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_B_(birth_control)#Side_effects


The most common side effect reported by users of emergency contraceptive pills was nausea (50.5% of 979 Yuzpe regimen users and 23.1% of 977 levonorgestrel-only users in the 1998 WHO trial; 14.3% of 2,720 levonorgestrel-only users in the 2002 WHO trial); vomiting is much less common and unusual with levonorgestrel-only ECPs (18.8% of 979 Yuzpe regimen users and 5.6% of levonorgestrel-only users in the 1998 WHO trial; 1.4% of 2,720 levonorgestrel-only users in the 2002 WHO trial).[3][19][33] Anti-emetics are not routinely recommended with levonorgestrel-only ECPs.[33][36] If a woman vomits within 2 hours of taking a levonorgestrel-only ECP, she should take a further dose as soon as possible.
...
were abdominal pain, fatigue, headache, dizziness, and breast tenderness.[3][19][33] Side effects usually do not occur for more than a few days after treatment, and they generally resolve within 24 hours.
...
Temporary disruption of the menstrual cycle is also commonly experienced.

Does this help?

I don't like the hive-mind.:(

Fortunately it is curable. It begins with thinking for one's self and making one's own choices. It's that easy! :D

Yes, well, I'm not getting into this with you again. I just want to know about side effects and possible consequences of reasonable misuse. This is the standard that we have for over-the-counter vs prescription medications.

Plan B is just a preventive meassure in case one forgets the contraceptive. But I do advise in using prescribed birth control.

Yes, well, I'm not getting into this with you again.
What's to 'get into'?

Abortion is a clearly-defined term. Whether or not a given drug is an abortificant is part of the required testing all FDA-approved drugs undergo. Plan B is not an abortificant. This is simply a fact, like the fact that ibuprofen isn't an abortificant.

It's a very important fact, actually, since a lot of young women are under the (incorrect) impression that taking Plan B or taking extra birth control pills will cause an abortion. This simply doesn't work. It's very important for people to have accurate information about this sort of thing, from a public health standpoint.

Does this help?

Yes, thank you. In essence, nothing permanent it looks like.

If that's the case, over-the-counter is fine.

Plan B is just a preventive meassure in case one forgets the contraceptive. But I do advise in using prescribed birth control.

It's quite convenient. Very regular cycles. That way, you can predict the bitchy days and forewarn any vulnerable male victims, so they can steer clear. ;) My husband likes knowing because they he knows his chances of getting any are nil. :D

Contraception and options like Plan B will allow slutty females to have sex without consequences.

Wow, that's the mother of all generalizations. I use contraceptives and wouldn't forgo using Plan B. Does that make me a slutty female?:rolleyes:

Not that anybody is saying that pregnancy should be a punishment, mind you, because babies are wonderful and awesome and every single woman always wants them. It's just that females who have sex should be forced to carry pregnancies to term regardless of their wishes.

Which is not a punishment.

Babies are adorable.

The end.

Babies are adorable, I just don't want any of my own. I have a choice, and believe me, if it came to it, I would use it fully.

Wow, that's the mother of all generalizations. I use contraceptives and wouldn't forgo using Plan B. Does that make me a slutty female?:rolleyes:



Babies are adorable, I just don't want any of my own. I have a choice, and believe me, if it came to it, I would use it fully.

Nana-chan, I do believe your sarcasm meters are thoroughly on the blink today.

I don't like the hive-mind.:(

Neither do I. Though I thought you said separating from it was "painful".

Depending on your particular definition of abortion, of course.

It's no more an abortion pill than condoms are abortion balloons.

Nana-chan, I do believe your sarcasm meters are thoroughly on the blink today.

*sighs*
Meh. Yeah, upon further thought I do realize Bottle was being sarcastic.

*sighs*
Meh. Yeah, upon further thought I do realize Bottle was being sarcastic.

*pats head*

You're just having one of those days.

:fluffle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_B_(birth_control)#Side_effects


The most common side effect reported by users of emergency contraceptive pills was nausea (50.5% of 979 Yuzpe regimen users and 23.1% of 977 levonorgestrel-only users in the 1998 WHO trial; 14.3% of 2,720 levonorgestrel-only users in the 2002 WHO trial); vomiting is much less common and unusual with levonorgestrel-only ECPs (18.8% of 979 Yuzpe regimen users and 5.6% of levonorgestrel-only users in the 1998 WHO trial; 1.4% of 2,720 levonorgestrel-only users in the 2002 WHO trial).[3][19][33] Anti-emetics are not routinely recommended with levonorgestrel-only ECPs.[33][36] If a woman vomits within 2 hours of taking a levonorgestrel-only ECP, she should take a further dose as soon as possible.
...
were abdominal pain, fatigue, headache, dizziness, and breast tenderness.[3][19][33] Side effects usually do not occur for more than a few days after treatment, and they generally resolve within 24 hours.
...
Temporary disruption of the menstrual cycle is also commonly experienced.

Does this help?


I'm more worried about the long term effects of using it.

It's no more an abortion pill than condoms are abortion balloons.

Sigged.

Plan C : http://i.gizmodo.com/5188715/the-penis-train-when-children-playgrounds-go-very-wrong

*pats head*

You're just having one of those days.

:fluffle:

Iz being patted, nya?:D

Plan C : http://i.gizmodo.com/5188715/the-penis-train-when-children-playgrounds-go-very-wrong

Thank you oh so fucking much...

I now have to clean up my desktop after spewing my breakfast all over it. :mad: :p

Morning-after contraception is now the UK's leading method of avoiding unwanted pregnancy?

That sounds like it's either hyperbolic bullshit, or.... no - I'm going to have to go with that.
More "sweeping generalisation"...but I see your point :D

Thank you oh so fucking much...

I now have to clean up my desktop after spewing my breakfast all over it. :mad: :p

You are not the only one -- though my mess is lunch. That was preternaturally hilarious.

Also, birth control is NOT 100% even in perfect use, it's much less effective in "typical use" which is sadly typical of the teenage population.

Yeah that's pretty much about right.

It should. You have a high percentage of unwanted preganancies, and a large part of those are by teen mothers.

Because we don't do things that make sense in this country, it would go against being a bunch of morons.

Agreed! The only "dangers" I can see are:

1. Some few girls may be tempted to have unprotected sex more often, leading to a rise in veneral disease.

2. The medication may have some as yet undiscovered side effects.

Other than those two caviats, I see this as a "good thing."

Considering that plan B has side effects like nausea, I suspect that many girls who get it the first time will make a note to use other forms of birth control in the future. If not, giving them an informative pamphlet or offering to have a pharmacist discuss birth control options would not hurt (or at least letting teens know that they are available for such a discussion).

Contraception and options like Plan B will allow slutty females to have sex without consequences.

Not that anybody is saying that pregnancy should be a punishment, mind you, because babies are wonderful and awesome and every single woman always wants them. It's just that females who have sex should be forced to carry pregnancies to term regardless of their wishes.

Which is not a punishment.

Babies are adorable.

The end.

According to this post, you're clearly evil.

But I see no reason not to trust you. http://fc10.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/088/4/8/_quot_Hee_quot__grin_by_Rahal_Stmin.png