NationStates Jolt Archive

Will the USA die a much harder death than the other superpowers that once occupied the world? Why or why not? If so, what death will the US most likely suffer?

Is England, Spain, Portugal, et al dead?

I don't think a collapse of exaggerated and disproportionate influence is the same thing as death.

Only way the US is going to suffer a "death" anytime soon is from nuclear war. Outside of that it will probably only be replaced by some type of "one world government". Most likely the same sentence for all of the major world nations.

Novus ordo seclorum. It's on the back of the state seal. The NWO isn't really all that 'new' ...

I see it being absorbed into a one-world government (which won't last long, I think, if it ever comes about) or as the "culture wars" rage on, I can see the US dissolving with its various states and regions becoming independent and forming their own alliances and unions. Which is something I might welcome.

Novus ordo seclorum. It's on the back of the state seal. The NWO isn't really all that 'new' ...

Careful the Eye of Horus is reading this as we speak.

We'd just reform into the Holy American Empire or something....

Will the USA die a much harder death than the other superpowers that once occupied the world? Why or why not? If so, what death will the US most likely suffer?

Name one superpower that has died and not merely lost their excessive influence?

Name one superpower that has died and not merely lost their excessive influence?

Um...Rome is my first thought...

Second, the Soviet Union, although its more a semantical(word?) thing than anything else...

Rome?

Rome?

Was Rome a superpower? I wonder what China would have thought about it back then.

Not many nations die, if any...they just fade away or change form.

Was Rome a superpower? I wonder what China would have thought about it back then.

I would think, too, that there should be a distinction between 'superpower' and 'empire.'

Not many nations die, if any...they just fade away or change form.

The most recent nation that I can think of that came close to what I would define as 'death' was the Ottoman Empire. Even that is arguable, but clearly nations don't die very often.

Was Rome a superpower? I wonder what China would have thought about it back then.

It wouldnt have, dont you know that before the Vietnam War, only Western Civilization counts? duh, lol...

But, id wager Rome and China were the world Superpowers back then...the US is probably the only Singular Hyperpower that I know of however...

Was Rome a superpower? I wonder what China would have thought about it back then.

Yes, I'd consider Rome a superpower, though obviously no power could control the whole world back then. Rome probably had as much influence on China as China did on Rome.

We'd probably become like Canada, we act like we still matter on the world stage, but we don't.

:D

Name one superpower that has died and not merely lost their excessive influence?
Alexanderian Empire?

He conquers Southeastern Europe, North Africa, and the Entire middle east.

200+ Years later everything is back the way it was.

Alexanderian Empire?

He conquers Southeastern Europe, North Africa, and the Entire middle east.

200+ Years later everything is back the way it was.

This usually happens when the establishment and expansion of the empire is based upon one single leader figure. See also Genghis Khan and, arguably, Napoleon.
Empires which have evolved over centuries usually also take centuries to fall apart.

We'll probably tear ourselves apart rather than fall to an outside invader.

We are 100 years away from another country taking dominace.
Super powers dont die so much as cease to grow, and then stagnate.

It'll be the same pattern as every other empire. The periphery will get sold off to support the increasing demands of the center of power until there is nothing left.

It's already in decline. I expect a big push, a show of power, then a gradual decline to the second rate status.

I expect I will be alive when I see the US fragment.

Superpower =/= empire.

The man who coined the term 'superpower', W.T.R. Fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thornton_Rickert_Fox), had as one of his primary characteristics of a superpower as worldwide military and cultural projection. As such, the term can only be used as intended in the modern era. Obviously, since the term doesn't have a universally accepted definition, it's possible to stretch the definition, but I think the defintion of the person who originally coined the term is as good as any.

At any rate, nations do not really "die" anymore. They may lose their power and influence, but rarely are nations wiped off the map any more. I think the US will eventually lose its status as a hyperpower, and will also eventually lose its status as a superpower. It'll eventually go the way of the UK, being a regional superpower but losing its worldwide standing. I doubt, except in the case of total breakdown of civilization (as the result of nuclear war, for example), that the US will ever disappear as a nation.

Um...Rome is my first thought...

Second, the Soviet Union, although its more a semantical(word?) thing than anything else...

One of the (Western) Roman Empire's latecoming major institutions still survives. It's called the Catholic Church.

Isn't there the possibility that the U.S. could breakdown due to the relatively high ethnic and cultural diversity? I mean, that's basically how the the Ottoman Empire broke down right?

Isn't there the possibility that the U.S. could breakdown due to the relatively high ethnic and cultural diversity? I mean, that's basically how the the Ottoman Empire broke down right?

Couple that with the British and French sticking their noses in where they didn't belong and that's somewhat close.

Superpower =/= empire.

The man who coined the term 'superpower', W.T.R. Fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thornton_Rickert_Fox), had as one of his primary characteristics of a superpower as worldwide military and cultural projection. As such, the term can only be used as intended in the modern era. Obviously, since the term doesn't have a universally accepted definition, it's possible to stretch the definition, but I think the defintion of the person who originally coined the term is as good as any.

At any rate, nations do not really "die" anymore. They may lose their power and influence, but rarely are nations wiped off the map any more. I think the US will eventually lose its status as a hyperpower, and will also eventually lose its status as a superpower. It'll eventually go the way of the UK, being a regional superpower but losing its worldwide standing. I doubt, except in the case of total breakdown of civilization (as the result of nuclear war, for example), that the US will ever disappear as a nation.


Ah, but it is an Empire. It just lacks an Emperor. I have little or nothing in common with the people in California other than a non representative imperial capital in D.C. Likewise they with me.

Isn't there the possibility that the U.S. could breakdown due to the relatively high ethnic and cultural diversity? I mean, that's basically how the the Ottoman Empire broke down right?

Yes, but when you ask the vast majority of Americans what group they identify themselves as, they say Americans. With the Ottomans, they people that inhabbited the land considered themselves Egyptian, Palestinian, Sryian, Iraqi, ect, ect.

We have ethnic diversity, but cultural unity(for the most part anyway.)

Ah, but it is an Empire. It just lacks an Emperor. I have little or nothing in common with the people in California other than a non representative imperial capital in D.C. Likewise they with me.

I think you exaggerate the provincial divisions in the US. As 9/11 showed us, there is a strong sense of "American" that explodes to the surface in times of crisis.

Though, I didn't really deny that the US was an empire. I was saying that historical examples like Rome aren't good examples of superpowers dying violent deaths because they never really were superpowers to begin with, and regardless, nations don't "die" like they used to.

Couple that with the British and French sticking their noses in where they didn't belong and that's somewhat close.

...

What exactly is that supposed to mean? You're gonna have to spell this out for me...

Some manner of nuclear holocaust seems the most likely. By the time the sun explodes the nation we call the United States of America may not exist.

Some manner of nuclear holocaust seems the most likely. By the time the sun explodes the nation we call the United States of America may not exist.

Yes, by then it will be the United states of Earth, under the resurected and now Immortal, President Reagan. Or Nixon's head.

Yes, by then it will be the United states of Earth, under the resurected and now Immortal, President Reagan. Or Nixon's head.

Nixon's head has my vote.

Nixon's head has my vote.


Even if his economic plan is to sell our childerns organs for meat, and sneaks into your home to wreak up the place?

I think you exaggerate the provincial divisions in the US. As 9/11 showed us, there is a strong sense of "American" that explodes to the surface in times of crisis.

Though, I didn't really deny that the US was an empire. I was saying that historical examples like Rome aren't good examples of superpowers dying violent deaths because they never really were superpowers to begin with, and regardless, nations don't "die" like they used to.

Well there used to be an explosion of Britishness in times of crises too. But eventually the UKCANNZA nations got sick of the 'imperial' parliament. Admittedly the legal ties weren't as strong, but it's not that dissimilar.

But I agree that it won't be a violent death. Like I already said, it will just be a slow selling off of the periphery in order to maintain the standard of living at the imperial center. And eventually well deserved mediocrity will be reached.

(That said, I do sometimes fear that the nation has been totally seized by crazy oligarchs, and it won't be that simple).

It will slowly unravel. A slow painful spiral to the end. Kicking and screaming all the way.

Nixon's head has my vote.

http://m.blog.hu/de/dewla/image/Futurama_nixons_head.png

...

What exactly is that supposed to mean? You're gonna have to spell this out for me...

See Egypt.

Something is definitely wrong when threads with this title aren't in internation incidents =\

Beyond that, I think the talk of fragmentation is overstated, the only area in the continental US that might fragment would MAYBE be the southwest, near the Mexican border, about 50 years from now if the local population doesn't start speaking English, eating McDonalds and watching baseball (All of which they start doing second generation, I should know, my mother's an immigrant). Our outlying territories and interests, like the virgin islands, and Guam, will be diminished.

In my opinion, we (the US) will probably be better off. We won't be policing the world anymore or trying to maintain a global empire. We'll be able to put all that money into services for the American people and have more goodwill around the world. You'll probably see closer ties with Canada eventually, MAYBE a common currency as our economies are so intertwined, and hopefully an expansion of our mutual defense agreements (since we won't be an empire anymore, mutual defense would make sense.) One world government is still far away, but regional governments are probably going to soon be a reality, following the EU model.

Hopefully this won't turn into a discussion about Canada-US relations =\

I always assumed the US would gradually become part of Mexico.

The US is almost dead already, inteligence and reason have fled like rats abandoning a sinking ship, the rest of us are left to wait for the morons who have overpopulated thanks to the idiot friendly way of life we have lived for the past 60 or so years to run us aground.

Don't mind me... 12 hours in a country music radio station with nowhere to run will do this to anyone.