NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510589,00.html

Such an understated article, considering how revolutionary it would be.

It reminds me of an article about recording data in the spin of electrons: it's kind of a big deal, but the article was so understated.

Once bitten I suppose. If true it's a world changing event.

If true the US just cornered the world energy market.

Wasn't true the other ten thousand times, doubt it's true now.

Screw Cold Fusion. As a progressive rock and metal fan, I've been aware for years of a far more powerful source of energy as yet unevaluated by science...Jazz Fusion. The incorporation of lengthy and technical guitar/bass solos and challenging time signatures into music provides enough energy to keep an individual song going for over twenty minutes, and albums for what feels like days.

Lets just hope this doesn't turn out to be like that orbo thing that got energy from.....nowhere somehow.

Extraordinary claims, extraordinary proof. Where is it?

Extraordinary claims, extraordinary proof. Where is it?

*secret cold fusion powered subs surface and surround UvV*

Extraordinary claims, extraordinary proof. Where is it?

*secret cold fusion powered subs surface and surround UvV*

excellent my plans are going according to schedule.

Pons and Fleischmann 2.0.

Let's see if others can reproduce their results and it turns out to be meaningful.

aww those poor cold fusion reactors I say we let them warm up :)

Pons and Fleischmann 2.0.

Let's see if others can reproduce their results and it turns out to be meaningful.

Literally, in this case - they're basically using the same experiment.

Still, it's an interesting little bit of evidence, but I'd still like to see rather a lot more proof before I accept it - there are plenty of alternate explanations, and various theoretical problems with cold fusion.

Something is going on there, but it remains to be seen just what. I think it's probably some kind of new, previously unknown nuclear reaction...obviously, I'm hoping it has economic potential because an energy source like this would pretty much solve most or all of our energy needs in to the future.

Lets just hope this doesn't turn out to be like that orbo thing that got energy from.....nowhere somehow.

You talking about zero-point energy?

You talking about zero-point energy?

Zero point energy is an established scientific concept...using it is another thing altogether. Orbo used magnets or some shit to produce its "energy".

Zero point energy is an established scientific concept...using it is another thing altogether. Orbo used magnets or some shit to produce its "energy".

Ah. Never heard of Orbo.

Zero point energy is an established scientific concept...using it is another thing altogether.
More precisely, extracting it is impossible (on the positive side of zero) according to physics as we know it. Extraction of energy is only possible between two levels.

Basically, to explain what the problem is on an analogy: Imagine a battery. Suppose there's always a little bit of voltage in it, decreasing infinitely as you drain it. You get a battery that never runs out entirely. But good luck using that to help your power bill.
It's a bit more complicated than that, but basically the same problem.

More precisely, extracting it is impossible (on the positive side of zero) according to physics as we know it. Extraction of energy is only possible between two levels.

Basically, to explain what the problem is on an analogy: Imagine a battery. Suppose there's always a little bit of voltage in it, decreasing infinitely as you drain it. You get a battery that never runs out entirely. But good luck using that to help your power bill.
It's a bit more complicated than that, but basically the same problem.

Well, if you had a lot of batteries...

Well, if you had a lot of batteries...
But none of them actually usable...
The assumption that zero-point energy can be used is based on a misunderstanding of physics or math, like Achilles and Tortoise Race Paradox.

But none of them actually usable...
The assumption that zero-point energy can be used is based on a misunderstanding of physics or math, like Achilles and Tortoise Race Paradox.

But if you had even more batteries...

But if you had even more batteries...

An infinite number of infinitely minute charges from batteries. Still wouldn't be worth shit.

An infinite number of infinitely minute charges from batteries. Still wouldn't be worth shit.

so infinity +1 gotcha

Twenty years exactly to the week when it was last "discovered"? I don't buy it.

Ah. Never heard of Orbo.

He is the newsreader on Futurama

He is the newsreader on Futurama

Coincidentally, whenever someone mentions zero-point energy as a viable source of energy, I hear him inside my head shouting IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

Twenty years exactly to the week when it was last "discovered"? I don't buy it.

that's when the paper was presented at the acs conference, not when it was discovered.

that's when the paper was presented at the acs conference, not when it was discovered.

Oh. Well in that case I don't buy it because I have an unnatural aversion to the idea that cold fusion will ever work. Once bitten and all that...

He is the newsreader on Futurama

Actually, that would be Morbo, the news monster.

All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo!

Coincidentally, whenever someone mentions zero-point energy as a viable source of energy, I hear him inside my head shouting IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

Nothing's a complete load! Not if you can imagine it. That's what being a scientist is all about.

Nothing's a complete load! Not if you can imagine it. That's what being a scientist is all about.

You can imagine it, yes, but your imagination is wrong. Morbo says, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Because it doesn't, not in the way people who think ZPE is a viable source of energy think. The casimir effect does produce energy, and theoretically you could extract it from vacuum or through some other ZPE process, but the energy is infinitely small - in fact, it's the smallest amount of energy possible - and it's non-renewable.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

You can imagine it, yes, but your imagination is wrong. Morbo says, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Because it doesn't, not in the way people who think ZPE is a viable source of energy think. The casimir effect does produce energy, and theoretically you could extract it from vacuum or through some other ZPE process, but the energy is infinitely small - in fact, it's the smallest amount of energy possible - and it's non-renewable.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

Actually, Morbo says "WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! Goodnight!"


You people and your demands! Write a song about me! Get Trogdor to come to my house! Put on a purple thing and dance around! Well I've had it!

Rather: You people and your misquoting of Futurama! "Orbo the newsreader!" "It doesn't work that way!" Well I've had it!

It takes a special kind of fool to pull an April Fool's joke a week early. Nice work.

It takes a special kind of fool to pull an April Fool's joke a week early. Nice work.

What made you change back to your old name?

What made you change back to your old name?

The certainty that I will be drunk by noon. Why waste time logging out and logging back in with my drunk account?

But on subject, would this be a fair assessment of cold fusion? "Spontaneous fusion, like spontaneous fission in non-radioactive materials, occurs naturally. So 'cold fusion' not only is not a viable source of usable energy (doesn't produce enough energy even with such rare materials as deuterium to actually warm the mixture) but doesn't tell us anything we didn't know already."

Obvious reference:

"Nothing like cold fusion!"

deuterium makes me think of Star Trek. i think i'm watching too much 'trek >.>

Screw Cold Fusion. As a progressive rock and metal fan, I've been aware for years of a far more powerful source of energy as yet unevaluated by science...Jazz Fusion. The incorporation of lengthy and technical guitar/bass solos and challenging time signatures into music provides enough energy to keep an individual song going for over twenty minutes, and albums for what feels like days.

give a man a Jazz Fusion album, he'll listen for a week. teach a man to Jazz Fusion, he'll be funky for the rest of his life ;)

deuterium makes me think of Star Trek. i think i'm watching too much 'trek >.>

give a man a Jazz Fusion album, he'll listen for a week. teach a man to Jazz Fusion, he'll be funky for the rest of his life ;)

I know what you mean about the Star Trek thing. I was working the other night at a call centre, and my list of names had about 30 straight surnames of "Borg". I tried telling "assimilation" jokes to my workmates, but they didn't get it :(

I know what you mean about the Star Trek thing. I was working the other night at a call centre, and my list of names had about 30 straight surnames of "Borg". I tried telling "assimilation" jokes to my workmates, but they didn't get it :(

lol, clearly your workmates aren't as cool as you and me :wink:

this is totally unrelated to anything, but it is pretty cool... i'm seeing Patrick Stewart in a play in London on my birthday! i've promised not to make any 'Trek jokes or references for the whole night :(

lol, clearly your workmates aren't as cool as you and me :wink:

this is totally unrelated to anything, but it is pretty cool... i'm seeing Patrick Stewart in a play in London on my birthday! i've promised not to make any 'Trek jokes or references for the whole night :(

That will make the experience significantly less entertaining :p

cold or hot, fusion is not yet a reliable technology. when the day comes that it is, that will be fine. until then, we have no shortage of completely adiquite alternatives to burning anything other then to keep warm with.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510589,00.html

Such an understated article, considering how revolutionary it would be.

It reminds me of an article about recording data in the spin of electrons: it's kind of a big deal, but the article was so understated.

Back around 1990 I once wrote a patent application related to cold fusion, based on some work by a group competing with Pons and Fleischmann. I moved to another office about a year later, so I never did find out what happened to it. But I always hoped that there was something to it.

I wonder when the next big sci fi thing is gonna happen.

I wonder when the next big sci fi thing is gonna happen.
do you think i should submit my diplomatic credentials from lananara to the white house chief of staff? or just how does that work anyway?

I wonder when the next big sci fi thing is gonna happen.

Already has. You're in the matrix. Enjoy.

You talking about zero-point energy?

Zero point energy is an established scientific concept...using it is another thing altogether. Orbo used magnets or some shit to produce its "energy".

Something about magnets moving through magnetic fields in a circle, and gaining energy from........somewhere, somehow. A few press releases and one failed public demonstration and then nothing recently.