NationStates Jolt Archive

In response to the current and recent rape threads:

The methodology is not going to be complex or reliable, but this is NSG, so even if it was we'd argue about it for hours. So instead of that, just answer the poll: have you ever been sexual assaulted, and do you know anyone who has been sexually assaulted? For the purposes of this poll, sexual assault is defined as:

- any unwanted sexual contact (including rape, molestation, fondling, kissing, etc.)
- which is effected using violence, the threat of violence or intimidation, inhibition- or consciousness-impairing substances, or other non-violent means of restraint.

Feel free to elaborate, post statistics, give anecdotal evidence, etc.

For the purposes of the poll, please choose whatever gender you identify with, whether it is the same as or different from your biological sex.

I have actually only personally known one person who was sexually assaulted (to my knowledge). She was raped on school grounds when we were in high school by another high school student.

She filed a police report, talked to the prosecutor and did the whole shot, but the prosecutor didn't think there was enough evidence to convict, so he never prosecuted the case. At least, that was the story.

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(just seemed the most ironic place for it, lol)

mom was involved with Sexual Abuse Crisis Services, so we would frequently get calls from the center for her to call back...I don't know if this is just a pet issue of hers or if she was abused herself.

eta: I was also once accused of molesting a friend (actually, at the time, they were my best friend) who was passed out at a party. It took several friends telling them I, too, was passed out. In a different house. 5 miles away from where they were. Needless to say, I'm not friends with them anymore.

I was going to say this in the other thread, about skepticism over the numbers describing rape incidence (somone claimed 1 in 6 - I don't know what the actual number is, but it's high): I was a skeptic too, until I heard stories from a younger brother who went to a large college in a remote area, such as you find in the Midwest. When I was in college, something like 2% of students lived on campus. You drove in, took your exams, heard the lecture, and went home. If you wanted to party, that was your own business - I've never been to a party myself, and I never cared. Many schools' housing schemes, however, are nothing more than large complexes of buildings where tens of thousands of students are crammed in together with no entertainment within a hundred miles, required to live on campus, in an environment where all measure of drugs and alcohol are readily available, and where most users are using for the first time. Where I'm from, 1/6 of women having been raped is a nearly-unimaginable crime, but where my brother went, it's almost difficult to imagine it not happening. That understanding cured me of my skepticism.

In almost all of my long-term relationships, the topic has eventually reared it's head sooner or later. With the exception of one who had never been assaulted, and one who never actually discussed it, I've been staggered to find that almost every one has been assulted, at least three of them in a manner that they considered better described as 'rape' than as any other manner of assult. Some had been assaulted more than once.

Within my extended family, I know of one other sexual assault (which I unfortunately didn't find out about until after the perpetrator was dead) and - through in-laws extended family - at least one long-term systematically abusive relationship.

I have absolutely NO problem believing the "1 in 6" figure. I only pray that it's fairly accurate, because my experience tells me it's UNDER-estimating by quite a margin.

I am a Zombie.

None of these options are satisfactory. I have now explained why on the thread.

I honestly never hear about sexual assult. The only incident that comes to mind is when a girl in my high school was bragging about how she pierced her own nipple and then one of the boys asked 'was it this one?' and grabbed her breast. It wasn't a violent incident but definately unwanted.

In almost all of my long-term relationships, the topic has eventually reared it's head sooner or later. With the exception of one who had never been assaulted, and one who never actually discussed it, I've been staggered to find that almost every one has been assulted, at least three of them in a manner that they considered better described as 'rape' than as any other manner of assult. Some had been assaulted more than once.

Within my extended family, I know of one other sexual assault (which I unfortunately didn't find out about until after the perpetrator was dead) and - through in-laws extended family - at least one long-term systematically abusive relationship.

I have absolutely NO problem believing the "1 in 6" figure. I only pray that it's fairly accurate, because my experience tells me it's UNDER-estimating by quite a margin.I've gotta say that I agree.

I know that two of my cousins were molested by their step father, whom the mother chose to stay with, despite full knowledge that such actions were taking place. I have no doubt that there has been more within my family...I suspect that one uncle may have been (physical abuse is well known amongst one half of my family, but with this one uncle in particular, I feel like there might be more.)

During my time in college, I met a lot of women. Some of them became good friends, the sort of friends who confide in each other. It wasn't a majority of them who had been sexually assaulted at some point, but it was a noticeable percentage. None of them had reported it, either because of irrational feelings of guilt or out of fear of reprisal.

These girls weren't what we so often envision as the typical rape victim. They weren't promiscuous, or indulging in binge drinking, or dressed provocatively. They were just normal girls thinking they were safe around normal guys.

And a couple of guys I had been friends with committed sexual assault against two of my female friends (two separate incidents). One of them admitted it and sought counseling, and the other continued his abusive behaviors towards women and ended up in rather a lot of trouble for it.

They weren't the kind of guys who crouch in a dark alley waiting for a scantily clad woman to appear. They were regular guys. They had normal majors, normal jobs, and normal social activities. And like any normal person, they had weaknesses.

Unfortunately, the sort of weaknesses that made me discontinue any close association with them. Part of me really wanted to just beat the bloody hell out of them, but that wouldn't do any good, and I knew it.

I don't doubt that a lot of women have undergone a sexual assault. But I would really prefer it if that weren't true.

An ex-partner, and still a very dear friend, was attacked twice but very luckily managed to fend them both off. These were stereotypical "stranger rape" scenarios, one quite literally involving someone who tried to drag her into the bushes at a bus stop. As a teenager, she was also asked some highly inappropriate questions by a doctor that she went to for birth control pills.

Although I said I hadn't been assaulted in the poll, I consider myself in a bit of a grey area. Apparently at a family gathering, when I was two or three, I was lured away by an older cousin. My parents found her and I together in an upstairs bedroom: myself stark naked, she highly embarrassed. I have no memory of this personally, but my grandmother (in her early stages of dementia) used to tell this story at subsequent family gatherings. She thought it was hilarious.

During my time in college, I met a lot of women. Some of them became good friends, the sort of friends who confide in each other. It wasn't a majority of them who had been sexually assaulted at some point, but it was a noticeable percentage. None of them had reported it, either because of irrational feelings of guilt or out of fear of reprisal.


I'm curious what you mean by fear of reprisal...do you mean fear of reprisal from the person who did it, or fear of reprisal from society?

In my experience, the stated claim is from the person...but I think the bigger fear is almost always from society. I'm curious as to you and GnI's take on this.

I'm curious what you mean by fear of reprisal...do you mean fear of reprisal from the person who did it, or fear of reprisal from society?

In my experience, the stated claim is from the person...but I think the bigger fear is almost always from society. I'm curious as to you and GnI's take on this.

Both, usually. There's usually a fear of a repeat incident and a fear that no one will believe them and belittle them for lying or that they'd be thought a slut by their peers. That's been my experience, anyway.

I've gotta say that I agree.

I know that two of my cousins were molested by their step father, whom the mother chose to stay with, despite full knowledge that such actions were taking place. I have no doubt that there has been more within my family...I suspect that one uncle may have been (physical abuse is well known amongst one half of my family, but with this one uncle in particular, I feel like there might be more.)

That's horrible. I don't know what the crime would be - maybe something like criminal negligence - but the mother should be charged with it, as well as as an accessory after the fact. That's just revolting.

I'm curious what you mean by fear of reprisal...do you mean fear of reprisal from the person who did it, or fear of reprisal from society?

In my experience, the stated claim is from the person...but I think the bigger fear is almost always from society. I'm curious as to you and GnI's take on this.

Speaking as someone who's been assaulted and didn't report it, I'd say I was far more afraid of society's response than that of my ex.

That's horrible. I don't know what the crime would be - maybe something like criminal negligence - but the mother should be charged with it, as well as as an accessory after the fact. That's just revolting.

moot point, as she recently died...but I don't disagree. The extent that it has fucked up those two cousins is pretty bad...one has managed to get her life back on track somewhat...the other, not nearly as successful. Mind you, neither are particularly horribly well off, considering other potential outcomes, but the effects still show.

Both, usually. There's usually a fear of a repeat incident and a fear that no one will believe them and belittle them for lying or that they'd be thought a slut by their peers. That's been my experience, anyway.

Speaking as someone who's been assaulted and didn't report it, I'd say I was far more afraid of society's response than that of my ex.

That's sort of what I've seen too. I have one friend who flat out said I was crazy for even suggesting she cared about societies response, only to tell me much later that that was, in fact, the only reason she didn't say anything. Her response of calling me crazy was her fear after having told me the information.

None of these options are satisfactory. I have now explained why on the thread.

You will now be ignored in this thread.

moot point, as she recently died...but I don't disagree. The extent that it has fucked up those two cousins is pretty bad...one has managed to get her life back on track somewhat...the other, not nearly as successful. Mind you, neither are particularly horribly well off, considering other potential outcomes, but the effects still show.

It's so hard to imagine having that kind of disregard for your own kids. That's the baffling thing. I know I'll never have kids, but if I ever did, they'd probably be the most important thing in the world to me. I used to think that a woman I worked with at my first job when I was 14 (a shipping/receiving job at a warehouse) was just trying to get under my skin when she would tell me stories, in a completely nonchalant manner, about how her husband had raped/impregnated her with her first son before she married him, but I'm more inclined to believe it now. It's a similar scenario, and I don't understand it, but I increasingly believe that it happens.

I honestly never hear about sexual assult. The only incident that comes to mind is when a girl in my high school was bragging about how she pierced her own nipple and then one of the boys asked 'was it this one?' and grabbed her breast. It wasn't a violent incident but definately unwanted.

See this is also considered sexual assualt which may explain why the numbers are so high.

That's sort of what I've seen too. I have one friend who flat out said I was crazy for even suggesting she cared about societies response, only to tell me much later that that was, in fact, the only reason she didn't say anything. Her response of calling me crazy was her fear after having told me the information.

Interesting how that fear of judgment is so ubiquitous.

It's odd and not odd, the way my friends would think that I would pass judgment on them afterward. It's odd in the sense that I had never been the sort of person to do that, and not odd in the sense that it's very understandable that a person's emotions would be all topsy-turvy at that point.

After all, I wasn't even the one enduring it, and I still had a lot of mixed-up feelings about it. I felt angry to a degree that nothing else has ever made me feel, and incredibly sad at the same time. And I felt a strong need to be protective and supportive.

So far, out of 27 respondents, 6 were never assaulted and do not know anyone who was ever assaulted, and four chose option nine. If we count those four, then 17 of 27 respondents, then 63% of respondents know someone (even if it's themselves) who was sexually assaulted. If we throw out the four option nines, that figure goes up to 74%. Pretty staggering.

That's sort of what I've seen too. I have one friend who flat out said I was crazy for even suggesting she cared about societies response, only to tell me much later that that was, in fact, the only reason she didn't say anything. Her response of calling me crazy was her fear after having told me the information.

I've never told any of my "real life" friends, because if I did, and they didn't believe me, or they thought it was my fault...I don't think I could stand that. A few years ago, I had this conversation with one of my best friends:

Him: Well, look at it this way - [Evil Ex] was pretty awful to you, but he still could have been worse. I mean, at least he didn't rape you or anything.
Me: Um...uh...given that I've said that I'm not telling you the worst parts, how do you know he didn't? Um.
Him: Well, I mean, if he had, you would have reported it. And anyway, he couldn't do THAT.
Me: I think you give him too much credit.
Him: Eh, I wouldn't believe it of him.
Me: So...I mean, just hypothetically, if I told you now that he actually had...you would think I was lying?
Him: Well...maybe not "lying" exactly, but I wouldn't really know what to think. If you said something like that, I'd pretty much have to stop talking to both of you, because I wouldn't want to take sides.
Me: You'd....stop talking to me, if I told you [Evil Ex] raped me?
Him: Well, yeah. I couldn't really be your friend if you accused him of something like that.
Me: Ah. Um. Well, anyway, I...um...have to go now. *click*

And then I sobbed my eyes out for the rest of the night. It still hurts to think about.

See this is also considered sexual assualt which may explain why the numbers are so high.

Are you arguing that it shouldn't be considered sexual assault, or are you arguing that the problem isn't really as bad as it's made out to be because some of the assaults are less "serious" than rape?

I've never told any of my "real life" friends, because if I did, and they didn't believe me, or they thought it was my fault...I don't think I could stand that. A few years ago, I had this conversation with one of my best friends:

Him: Well, look at it this way - [Evil Ex] was pretty awful to you, but he still could have been worse. I mean, at least he didn't rape you or anything.
Me: Um...uh...given that I've said that I'm not telling you the worst parts, how do you know he didn't? Um.
Him: Well, I mean, if he had, you would have reported it. And anyway, he couldn't do THAT.
Me: I think you give him too much credit.
Him: Eh, I wouldn't believe it of him.
Me: So...I mean, just hypothetically, if I told you now that he actually had...you would think I was lying?
Him: Well...maybe not "lying" exactly, but I wouldn't really know what to think. If you said something like that, I'd pretty much have to stop talking to both of you, because I wouldn't want to take sides.
Me: You'd....stop talking to me, if I told you [Evil Ex] raped me?
Him: Well, yeah. I couldn't really be your friend if you accused him of something like that.
Me: Ah. Um. Well, anyway, I...um...have to go now. *click*

And then I sobbed my eyes out for the rest of the night. It still hurts to think about.

That is so incredibly fucked up.

I lost my best friend over a situation similar to that, although it was just one of MANY reasons we fell out. Her boyfriend tried to kiss me and feel me up one night in the bathroom when we had all been drinking. I didn't tell her because I was disgusted and didn't want to talk about it or hurt her, but it came out during another drunken conversation a few months later. Apparently he'd already told her his version--that I was very upset and was "just trying to calm me down"--and I was just floored. Someone who had been my closest friend since we were 11 took the word of a KNOWN liar over mine.

Are you arguing that it shouldn't be considered sexual assault, or are you arguing that the problem isn't really as bad as it's made out to be because some of the assaults are less "serious" than rape?
I think he just meant that that is why the number of assualts is so large. Because when we think assualt we automatically think rape and not groping.
BTW I voted I don't know anyone who's been assualted

Option #7.

That is so incredibly fucked up.

I lost my best friend over a situation similar to that, although it was just one of MANY reasons we fell out. Her boyfriend tried to kiss me and feel me up one night in the bathroom when we had all been drinking. I didn't tell her because I was disgusted and didn't want to talk about it or hurt her, but it came out during another drunken conversation a few months later. Apparently he'd already told her his version--that I was very upset and was "just trying to calm me down"--and I was just floored. Someone who had been my closest friend since we were 11 took the word of a KNOWN liar over mine.

Yeah...on one level, I understand the reluctance to believe that someone you know could actually do something really terrible, but on another level, all I can think is, christ, why in the hell would I want to make such a thing up? How could someone who knows me, someone who has heard my story about the one time in 7th grade I actually lied about someone and how I still feel horribly guilty about it to this day even though she wasn't even affected by my lie in any way, someone who theoretically considers me a good and trustworthy friend, how could he honestly think that I would lie about that? :(

Why do you hate Freedom?




(just seemed the most ironic place for it, lol)

A better choice: "You would do well to familiarize yourself with the writings of the eminent 20th-century Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand."

So far, out of 27 respondents, 6 were never assaulted and do not know anyone who was ever assaulted, and four chose option nine. If we count those four, then 17 of 27 respondents, then 63% of respondents know someone (even if it's themselves) who was sexually assaulted. If we throw out the four option nines, that figure goes up to 74%. Pretty staggering.


My worry with these numbers anecdotal numbers is the "false-positive". Aka, a lie.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/dnaevid.txt

This is a study of 28 cases where rape convictions were overturned by DNA. The average sentence they served was 7 years.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

This is an article on the study that led to the one-in-four/five number that is commonly cited, and to the methodology it used.

I don't have a direct internet link this time. (Kanin EJ. Arch Sex Behav. 1994 Feb;23(1):81-92 False rape allegations). This is a study that found about a 40% provable false allegation rate. publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.) This is a study in the military where 27% of accusers recanted their accusation when forced to take a polygraph test. FBI's 1996 Uniform Reports found about an 8% rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Crime_Reports). A British Study which ignores accusers who drop out of the justice process found about the same 8%. (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf) (Note: some information found from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics originally)

I've never told any of my "real life" friends, because if I did, and they didn't believe me, or they thought it was my fault...I don't think I could stand that. A few years ago, I had this conversation with one of my best friends:

Him: Well, look at it this way - [Evil Ex] was pretty awful to you, but he still could have been worse. I mean, at least he didn't rape you or anything.
Me: Um...uh...given that I've said that I'm not telling you the worst parts, how do you know he didn't? Um.
Him: Well, I mean, if he had, you would have reported it. And anyway, he couldn't do THAT.
Me: I think you give him too much credit.
Him: Eh, I wouldn't believe it of him.
Me: So...I mean, just hypothetically, if I told you now that he actually had...you would think I was lying?
Him: Well...maybe not "lying" exactly, but I wouldn't really know what to think. If you said something like that, I'd pretty much have to stop talking to both of you, because I wouldn't want to take sides.
Me: You'd....stop talking to me, if I told you [Evil Ex] raped me?
Him: Well, yeah. I couldn't really be your friend if you accused him of something like that.
Me: Ah. Um. Well, anyway, I...um...have to go now. *click*

And then I sobbed my eyes out for the rest of the night. It still hurts to think about.

I have to say that this is the first thing that I've heard that made me feel this much rage when it comes to people I do not personally. That I can remember anyway. The last time I felt this way it involved people I cared very deeply about. What a bastard.

Are you arguing that it shouldn't be considered sexual assault, or are you arguing that the problem isn't really as bad as it's made out to be because some of the assaults are less "serious" than rape?

Closer to the second but still not quite right. Some assaults obviously aren't as bad as others would you consider a person that has been raped have had the same degree of sexual assault as someone who was tightly hugged in a bar? The second could say that they were sexually assaulted and report it as such thus making the stats increase if we had 10 of these and only 2 rapes in a night then obviously the stats will say there was 12 but 2 of these were much more serious than the other 10.

I have to say that this is the first thing that I've heard that made me feel this much rage when it comes to people I do not personally. That I can remember anyway. The last time I felt this way it involved people I cared very deeply about. What a bastard.

That's the worst part, really. He's not a bastard. He's a nice, caring person, who just somehow is more capable of believing that one of his best friends would pretend that her ex sexually assaulted her than that her ex, whom he knows to be an asshole who treated her like shit, actually sexually assaulted her. It would hurt a lot less if he were actually a bastard, or if he were actually unique, but I'm sadly fairly confident that many if not most of my kind, caring friends would have much the same response. :(

My worry with these numbers anecdotal numbers is the "false-positive". Aka, a lie.

This thread is about anecdotal evidence. Clearly, anecdotal evidence does not "prove" anything. It also doesn't constitute a "lie"; it constitutes a small, non-random sample.

I respect the links you've provided, but there are many more statistics and studies that show that rape is under-reported, under-prosecuted, and under-convicted. We can throw numbers at each other all day; that's why I made a thread for personal experiences.

I've never told any of my "real life" friends, because if I did, and they didn't believe me, or they thought it was my fault...I don't think I could stand that. A few years ago, I had this conversation with one of my best friends:

Him: Well, look at it this way - [Evil Ex] was pretty awful to you, but he still could have been worse. I mean, at least he didn't rape you or anything.
Me: Um...uh...given that I've said that I'm not telling you the worst parts, how do you know he didn't? Um.
Him: Well, I mean, if he had, you would have reported it. And anyway, he couldn't do THAT.
Me: I think you give him too much credit.
Him: Eh, I wouldn't believe it of him.
Me: So...I mean, just hypothetically, if I told you now that he actually had...you would think I was lying?
Him: Well...maybe not "lying" exactly, but I wouldn't really know what to think. If you said something like that, I'd pretty much have to stop talking to both of you, because I wouldn't want to take sides.
Me: You'd....stop talking to me, if I told you [Evil Ex] raped me?
Him: Well, yeah. I couldn't really be your friend if you accused him of something like that.
Me: Ah. Um. Well, anyway, I...um...have to go now. *click*

And then I sobbed my eyes out for the rest of the night. It still hurts to think about.

Poli... I'm actually tearing up from reading this.

Also, I would like to revise my vote on the poll to:

I am male; I have not been sexually assaulted; I know others who have been sexually assaulted.

This thread is about anecdotal evidence.

In your OP, you mentioned specifically post statistics. If you have some to disagree with mine, I'd love to see them. I have yet to see any from reliable, official sources that disagree with these to any large extent.

That's the worst part, really. He's not a bastard. He's a nice, caring person, who just somehow is more capable of believing that one of his best friends would pretend that her ex sexually assaulted her than that her ex, whom he knows to be an asshole who treated her like shit, actually sexually assaulted her. It would hurt a lot less if he were actually a bastard, or if he were actually unique, but I'm sadly fairly confident that many if not most of my kind, caring friends would have much the same response. :(

I have less than zero knowledge about you or your friends but I can only hope that you're wrong about what their response would be.

I'm curious what you mean by fear of reprisal...do you mean fear of reprisal from the person who did it, or fear of reprisal from society?

In my experience, the stated claim is from the person...but I think the bigger fear is almost always from society. I'm curious as to you and GnI's take on this.

From what I can gather, victims often assume they will be immediately exposed to two things: 1) disbelief, and 2) condemnation.

Given reactions I've actually witnessed... those fears aren't unreasonable. Even among friends the first few responses often follow a pattern like "I don't believe it! He (or she) wouldn't do that! What were YOU doing?"

Denial and blame.

Given the immediate potential backlash, it's not surprising lots of people stay quiet about it - sharing only with VERY close friends that they're sure they can trust (of which they might have very very few). And that's where the risk from the attacker really comes in as a fear - if 'society' didn't believe me (or even BLAMED me) once - what's going to stop him (her) doing it again, and again, and again...

Even worse, if it becomes known that you were assaulted and disbelieved or blamed... aren't you risking opening yourself up to similar behaviour from other people?

In your OP, you mentioned specifically post statistics. If you have some to disagree with mine, I'd love to see them. I have yet to see any from reliable, official sources that disagree with these to any large extent.

You're right; I forgot that I said that. Very well, your statistics are welcome, then.

What do you consider a "reliable, official source"? Your first link shows that at least 28 rape convictions were wrong. Many murder convictions are wrong, too--but we don't doubt that murder happens. Your second link is frankly so insulting, misogynistic and uniformed that I'm shocked you'd use it as a source.

Well, my older cousin was date raped when she was younger.

And also my girlfriend was molested by her cousin when she was a child. (A cousin I've yet to meet, and probably would bloody butcher if he tried to touch my lady again)

And Poli, that's really tragic. I'm very sorry that has happened to you. Some friend- in my opinion first rate bastard (not to mention a coward)- for not being capable of believing a friend being assaulted. :(

My worry with these numbers anecdotal numbers is the "false-positive". Aka, a lie.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/dnaevid.txt

This is a study of 28 cases where rape convictions were overturned by DNA. The average sentence they served was 7 years.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

This is an article on the study that led to the one-in-four/five number that is commonly cited, and to the methodology it used.

I don't have a direct internet link this time. (Kanin EJ. Arch Sex Behav. 1994 Feb;23(1):81-92 False rape allegations). This is a study that found about a 40% provable false allegation rate. publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.) This is a study in the military where 27% of accusers recanted their accusation when forced to take a polygraph test. FBI's 1996 Uniform Reports found about an 8% rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Crime_Reports). A British Study which ignores accusers who drop out of the justice process found about the same 8%. (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf) (Note: some information found from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics originally)

Here are a bunch of numbers:

"AMERICAN RAPE STATISTICS

Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault. (NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)

The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.)

SILENT VICTIMS :

One of the most startling aspects of sex crimes is how many go unreported. The most common reasons given by women for not reporting these crimes are the belief that it is a private or personal matter and the fear of reprisal from the assailant.

Approximately 28% of victims are raped by husbands or boyfriends, 35% by acquaintances, and 5% by other relatives. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994)

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

In 1994-1995, only 251,560 rapes and sexual assaults were reported to law enforcement officials -- less than one in every three. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

An overwhelming majority of rape service agencies believe that public education about rape, and expanded counseling and advocacy services for rape victims, would be effective in increasing the willingness of victims to report rapes to the police. (Rape in America, 1992, National Victim Center with Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center.)

LIVING IN FEAR :

According to the U.S. Department of Justice: (All statistics are taken from: Violenceagainst Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

One of every four rapes take place in a public area or in a parking garage.

31% of female victims reported that the offender was a stranger.

68% of rapes occur between the hours of 6 p.m. and 6 a.m.

At least 45% of rapists were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

In 29% of rapes, the offender used a weapon.

In 47% of rapes, the victim sustained injuries other than rape injuries.

75% of female rape victims require medical care after the attack.

NOT JUST A FAMILY MATTER :

Family violence and abuse are among the most prevalent forms of interpersonal violence against women and young children -- both boys and girls. The sexual abuse of a child should never be "just a family matter," but many children are afraid to report an incident to the police because the abusers are too often a family friend or relative.

Approximately one-third of all juvenile victims of sexual abuse cases are children younger than 6 years of age. (Violence and the Family, Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family, 1996.)

According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age 18; one in six are under age 12. (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department of Justice.)

FACE OF AMERICA :

About 81% of rape victims are white; 18% are black; 1% are of other races. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

About half of all rape victims are in the lowest third of income distribution; half are in the upper two-thirds. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

There were 71 forcible rapes per 100,000 females reported to United States law enforcement agencies in 1996. 2

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police.3

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

In a national survey 27.7% of college women reported a sexual experience since the age of fourteen that met the legal definition of rape or attempted rape, and 7.7% of college men reported perpetrating aggressive behavior which met the legal definition of rape.5

The National Crime Victimization Survey indicates that for 1992-1993, 92% of rapes were committed by known assailants.1 About half of all rapes and sexual assaults against women are committed by friends and acquaintances, and 26% are by intimate partners.1

Risk factors for perpetrating sexual violence include: early sexual experience (both forced and voluntary),6 adherence by men to sex role stereotyping,7,8 negative attitudes of men towards women,6,9,,10,11,12, alcohol consumption,8,13 acceptance of rape myths by men.8,9,12,14,15

Non-forceful verbal resistance and lack of resistance are associated with rape completion.1,6

The adult pregnancy rate associated with rape is estimated to be 4.7%. This information, in conjunction with estimates based on the U.S. Census, suggest that there may be 32,101 annual rape-related pregnancies among American women over the age of 18.17

Non-genital physical injuries occur in approximately 40% of completed rape cases.18 As many as 3% of all rape cases have non-genital injuries requiring overnight hospitalization.19

Victims of rape often manifest long-term symptoms of chronic headaches,18,20fatigue20, sleep disturbance20, recurrent nausea,20 decreased appetite,21 eating disorders,22 menstrual pain,18 sexual dysfunction,23 and suicide attempts.21 In a longitudinal study, sexual assault was found to increase the odds of substance abuse by a factor of 2.5.24

Estimates of the occurrence of sexually transmitted diseases resulting from rape range from 3.6% to 30%.18,22 HIV transmission risk rate from rape is estimated at 1 in 500,22,25 although a few probable cases have been documented in Sweden and Great Britain. 26,27

Victims of marital or date rape are 11 times more likely to be clinically depressed, and 6 times more likely to experience social phobia than are non-victims. Psychological problems are still evident in cases as long as 15 years after the assault.28

Fatalities occur in about 0.1% of all rape cases.29,30

A study examining the use of health services over a five year period by female members of a health maintenance program found that the number of visits to physicians by rape victims increased 56% in the year following the crime, compared to a 2% utilization increase by non-victims.31

The National Public Services Research Institute estimates the lifetime cost for each rape with physical injuries which occurred in 1987 to be $60,000.32 "
http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

You're right; I forgot that I said that. Very well, your statistics are welcome, then.

What do you consider a "reliable, official source"? Your first link shows that at least 28 rape convictions were wrong. Many murder convictions are wrong, too--but we don't doubt that murder happens. Your second link is frankly so insulting, misogynistic and uniformed that I'm shocked you'd use it as a source.

First link is simple proof that it does happen, because often in this sort of thread you constantly hear people say "No woman would ever lie about it." Next link is a response to the usual study brought up to defend the numbers given out.

The next 4 links are a scientific study from a sociologist that can be easily looked up and considered, the AFOSI numbers, the FBI's study from their investigation (circa. 1996), and the British Government's study of the same. The 8% number is especially telling considering the general false accusation rate of felonies is around 4%.

Edit: Also, please don't take my numbers and posts to assume I believe that rape doesn't happen at all. I simply disagree with the percentages and numbers given by most.

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

The problem is nothing on that page mentions the false report percentages, which completely change the face of those numbers entirely. The 9 year study in Indiana which showed 40% to be false (not just unproven, false) casts a lot of those numbers into quite a bit of doubt.

Also, to argue with one of the numbers listed (most important one, I feel).
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

Check out Nationmaster, if you don't feel it's credible I'll try and find the original results. They list the per capita rape in America as 30 per 100,000, which could just be the difference from 1996 to today. (If so, that might almost be worth it's own article. A drop of more than 50% in 13 years)

I've never told any of my "real life" friends, because if I did, and they didn't believe me, or they thought it was my fault...I don't think I could stand that. A few years ago, I had this conversation with one of my best friends:

Him: Well, look at it this way - [Evil Ex] was pretty awful to you, but he still could have been worse. I mean, at least he didn't rape you or anything.
Me: Um...uh...given that I've said that I'm not telling you the worst parts, how do you know he didn't? Um.
Him: Well, I mean, if he had, you would have reported it. And anyway, he couldn't do THAT.
Me: I think you give him too much credit.
Him: Eh, I wouldn't believe it of him.
Me: So...I mean, just hypothetically, if I told you now that he actually had...you would think I was lying?
Him: Well...maybe not "lying" exactly, but I wouldn't really know what to think. If you said something like that, I'd pretty much have to stop talking to both of you, because I wouldn't want to take sides.
Me: You'd....stop talking to me, if I told you [Evil Ex] raped me?
Him: Well, yeah. I couldn't really be your friend if you accused him of something like that.
Me: Ah. Um. Well, anyway, I...um...have to go now. *click*

And then I sobbed my eyes out for the rest of the night. It still hurts to think about.

For what it is worth, I believe you. I am shocked that your friend was not alarmed at hearing you speak of this. Even if someone I knew was a perpetual liar, I would consider a report like this more heavily than your friend considered your words.

The problem is nothing on that page mentions the false report percentages, which completely change the face of those numbers entirely. The 9 year study in Indiana which showed 40% to be false (not just unproven, false) casts a lot of those numbers into quite a bit of doubt.
OK. Here's a bit more then:
"The rate of false reports of rape is approximately 2 - 3% which is no different than that for other crimes. This is different than the 8% of reports which are unfounded. This means that in 8% of the rape cases reported the investigators or prosecutors deemed that the case was not prosecutable for any number of reasons. Only 2 - 3% of the reports however were fabricated stories.http://www.sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php

"Further, the authors themselves reject the contention that this figure can be extrapolated to the actual false conviction rate:

Some already have used the cases discussed in this report to argue that hundreds more innocent defendants are in prison. They contend that the current “exclusion” rate for forensic DNA labs — close to 25 percent — suggests that a similar percentage of innocent defendants were wrongly convicted before the availability of forensic DNA typing. Unfortunately, too many variables are contained in the “exclusion” rate to draw any meaningful conclusions from it. Furthermore, nothing about the cases reviewed here necessarily supports such a conclusion."
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2006/06/06/are-33-of-convicted-rapists-exonerated-by-dna/

That's the worst part, really. He's not a bastard. He's a nice, caring person, who just somehow is more capable of believing that one of his best friends would pretend that her ex sexually assaulted her than that her ex, whom he knows to be an asshole who treated her like shit, actually sexually assaulted her. It would hurt a lot less if he were actually a bastard, or if he were actually unique, but I'm sadly fairly confident that many if not most of my kind, caring friends would have much the same response. :(

He sounds average. "Caring", but unwilling to believe anything that would force him to do Jack Shit.

First link is simple proof that it does happen, because often in this sort of thread you constantly hear people say "No woman would ever lie about it."


Often AND constantly... and in this particular thread, so far? Oh. Never?


Edit: Also, please don't take my numbers and posts to assume I believe that rape doesn't happen at all. I simply disagree with the percentages and numbers given by most.

Most of us doubt the official figures are significantly accurate, actually. Fortunately, it doesn't matter because it's FRACTIONAL at worst - not an order of magnitude.

A rape every two minutes is terrifying. Even if it's 'only' a rape every four minutes? Oh, still terrifying.

A rape every two minutes is terrifying. Even if it's 'only' a rape every four minutes? Oh, still terrifying.

Even a rape an hour, or a rape a day- still terrifying.

Even a rape an hour, or a rape a day- still terrifying.

Not to sound insensitive or anything...But that would seem lower than I would expect to be honest...

Even a rape an hour, or a rape a day- still terrifying.

Agreed.

And.. if the figures are, instead, UNDER-representing. Still terrifying.

As for me, I've been molested by a guy in a toilet at the railway station (groping: I had to shove him away quite harsh).
Also a woman molested me via phone for a week; had to call the phone company to make her stop, it was really embarassing.

That's all. I think that the latter would qualify more as sexual harassment, though, and that the first is quite minor as kind of assault, if even it is at all.

About other people, my fiancee has been object of groping in the underground - again, quite a minor kind of assault.

Most of us doubt the official figures are significantly accurate, actually. Fortunately, it doesn't matter because it's FRACTIONAL at worst - not an order of magnitude.

While fractional, a difference in per capita of 50% is a fairly significant difference.

A rape every two minutes is terrifying. Even if it's 'only' a rape every four minutes? Oh, still terrifying.

Of course it's terrifying. I don't think I've tried to argue that it isn't.

A rape every two minutes is terrifying. Even if it's 'only' a rape every four minutes? Oh, still terrifying.

I would imagine it's pretty exhausting too.

While fractional, a difference in per capita of 50% is a fairly significant difference.


If we were to accept that kind of figure... no, it's still not that big a deal. 90% wouldn't be that big a deal, because the numbers would still be horrific.

But, I don't buy your numbers.

As I've said before, I think it likely that the claims made are conservative estimates, if anything. Which makes me die a little, inside.

I can't think of anything in my life or anyone else's who I know well that I would consider sexual assault. Harrasment, probably.

Also, I'm puzzled by the huge disparity between the numbers of male and female voters. Is this due to a comparable disparity on NSG as a whole, or are women in general more uncomfortable with discussing this subject, or what?

I would imagine it's pretty exhausting too.

Ah, a variant on the 'a woman is raped every two minutes... and she's getting tired of it' riff.

I can't think of anything in my life or anyone else's who I know well that I would consider sexual assault. Harrasment, probably.

Also, I'm puzzled by the huge disparity between the numbers of male and female voters. Is this due to a comparable disparity on NSG as a whole, or are women in general more uncomfortable with discussing this subject, or what?

Some areas are pretty close. It's just two options that show a marked swing, and that probably DOES reflect largely on the gender demographics of the forum.

Ah, a variant on the 'a woman is raped every two minutes... and she's getting tired of it' riff.

Oddly, I never heard that before, but I think I like mine better.

Oddly, I never heard that before, but I think I like mine better.

Same here, Ive heard yours before

My worry with these numbers anecdotal numbers is the "false-positive". Aka, a lie.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/dnaevid.txt

This is a study of 28 cases where rape convictions were overturned by DNA. The average sentence they served was 7 years.

The trouble with this source is first off, its 28 cases of murder or rape convictions. Might want to read your own source there, bud. Now, when someone is wrongfully convicted of murder, it doesn't change the fact that the victim was murdered. Similarly, when someone is wrongfully convicted of rape, it doesn't mean the person is no longer a victim.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

This is an article on the study that led to the one-in-four/five number that is commonly cited, and to the methodology it used.

Your second article suggests that there is a problem with the methodology of the study because many women do not consider that they have been raped. A lot of guys don't think it's rape to drop a pill into a girl's drink, or jump on top of someone passed out. A lot of girls have this attitude too.

I have a friend who had a guy have sex with her while she was passed out. She doesn't consider it rape. She considers it her own stupid fault. Was she raped, do you think? Another friend of mine was assaulted in a cab on her way home. By a good friend. She had been hugging him and kissing him all night, and he, drunk off his face thought that meant more. She considers it her own fault, since she was drinking, kissing and feeling him up. Was it rape?

OT: I was touched by my older cousin who was living with us when I was about 6 or 7. It's really fucked with my memory of those years. Especially since, while my father was horrified, he refused to kick him out of the house in case he upset his sister. Of course I wasn't allowed to be at home alone with him again. Our family didn't report it since one of my friends had been molested by her neighbour, and he was acquitted after my friend was dragged through the mud. At 7.

So far, out of 27 respondents, 6 were never assaulted and do not know anyone who was ever assaulted, and four chose option nine. If we count those four, then 17 of 27 respondents, then 63% of respondents know someone (even if it's themselves) who was sexually assaulted. If we throw out the four option nines, that figure goes up to 74%. Pretty staggering.

Your calculations overlooks the possibility that more than one respondent can refer to the same victim. Also, it may well be that there's an overreport due to the nature of the respondents (Those who were not, directly or indirectly, involved in a sexual assault case are more likely to ignore this thread than those that were.)

BTW, IMO the poll misses the option "I sexually assaulted someone".

Third option. There has been unwanted "bad touching", but the only violence was my response to it.

Some areas are pretty close. It's just two options that show a marked swing, and that probably DOES reflect largely on the gender demographics of the forum.

I was referring to the disparity between the numbers of men and women voting at all, not the results of the poll.

I've been groped before, either by accident (if there's such a thing) or intentionally. I'm sure pretty much every girl has had that experience.

I've been groped before, either by accident (if there's such a thing) or intentionally. I'm sure pretty much every girl has had that experience.

One would probably have to have been raised by wolves to have never been groped. That's probably why sexual assault is being defined as either clearly being violence or requiring intimidation besides the groping itself.

One would probably have to have been raised by wolves to have never been groped. That's probably why sexual assault is being defined as either clearly being violence or requiring intimidation besides the groping itself.

I was raised by wolves.

The bear touched me... :(

To the best of my knowledge none of my friends have been sexually assaulted. Nor have I. Yay :)

BTW, IMO the poll misses the option "I sexually assaulted someone".

Ninth option.

Have you sexually assaulted someone?

Third option. There has been unwanted "bad touching", but the only violence was my response to it.

There doesn't have to be violence associated with it. Simply surprising someone and molesting them before they can defend themselves is sexual assault. That you put a swift and, presumably, violent stop to it does not mean the assault did not occur.

I forgot that I was as a child before I voted :$ I've been molested a ton of other times but thats just a night out for you

as for girls I know of like 3-4 but they were underage and on the lash which (forgive the saying) is asking for trouble

- any unwanted sexual contact (including rape, molestation, fondling, kissing, etc.)

oh lawd did you know that when I was a child I had to kiss my granny!

also I'm so going to jail.

I've escaped being sexually assaulted a few times. Some of those escapes were particularly narrow, and scary. My best friend, nearly 15 years after the fact, has finally come to accept that something that happened to her when we were teens actually was a sexual assault. I come from a community that can be rather disfunctional at times...unfortunately I know many, many girls and women who have been sexually assaulted. I sort of grew up with the belief that it was going to happen to me eventually, and that hopefully I'd be able to heal after. As an adult, it bothers me greatly that it seemed inevitable.

I have absolutely NO problem believing the "1 in 6" figure. I only pray that it's fairly accurate, because my experience tells me it's UNDER-estimating by quite a margin.

This is my fear as well. Out of all the women I've known well enough to discuss this topic, the vast majority have been assaulted at some point in their lives - often as children. From my own personal anecdotal experience (which I know is worth very little in the scheme of things), I'd place the number of women who have been sexually assaulted at greater than 50%.

I know someone who had been raped >20 times by her father. She was afraid to talk because she might end up dead like her mother. Eventually her younger sister slipped and remarked something about what she saw. Thankfully the bastard is now in prison.

The most chilling example recently is a girl I go to school with. Her and her sister were abused horribly by their father. They both left home as soon as possible, and changed their names. The classmate had to do this three times...somehow he kept finding her. You hear about this sort of thing, see shows on it...it's crazy to think that there are people who actually have to go through it. Her mother was run off the road and died, but he was never tied to it.

(following was in reply to me)

There doesn't have to be violence associated with it. Simply surprising someone and molesting them before they can defend themselves is sexual assault. That you put a swift and, presumably, violent stop to it does not mean the assault did not occur.

I don't know. On one hand I'm inclined to agree that surprising someone with inappropriate touching without using any kind of force or threat is sexual assault. On the other hand if we count every woman whose chest or bottom has been touched by someone who wasn't supposed to surprise her that way, it will be extremely difficult to find a woman who isn't an "assault victim".

Dirty old man touches rear, dirty old man gets punched. If he had tried to prevent me from walking away, then I suppose I would consider it assault.

Closer to the second but still not quite right. Some assaults obviously aren't as bad as others would you consider a person that has been raped have had the same degree of sexual assault as someone who was tightly hugged in a bar? The second could say that they were sexually assaulted and report it as such thus making the stats increase if we had 10 of these and only 2 rapes in a night then obviously the stats will say there was 12 but 2 of these were much more serious than the other 10.
Yeah, but who actually reports a "minor" sexual assault? The police (and pretty much everybody else) would laugh at you for expecting them to prosecute some fucker rubbing his crotch on you in the subway or jerking off in front of you at the swimming pond or in a parking lot.
So I really doubt that "minor" sexual assaults are artificially inflating anything.

Also, I'm puzzled by the huge disparity between the numbers of male and female voters. Is this due to a comparable disparity on NSG as a whole, or are women in general more uncomfortable with discussing this subject, or what?
Since the poll is anonymous I doubt the latter would have any noticeable effect. And yeah, male posters outweigh female posters by a huge margin on NSG.
I actually thought it was a surprisingly large number of female votes.

The more and more of these threads I read, the more and more I realise that I share my gender with a bunch of total assholes.

this whole thread makes me go fuuuu-

sucks to be a girl :/

The more and more of these threads I read, the more and more I realise that I share my gender with a bunch of total assholes.

to be fair women aren't all that much better...they just happen to be allot less grabby

So roughly half of the females on NSG have been sexually assaulted, that's pretty shocking.

So roughly half of the females on NSG have been sexually assaulted, that's pretty shocking.

Not really. I'm surprised it's not higher. I think most women end up being groped at some point or another.

Not really. I'm surprised it's not higher. I think most women end up being groped at some point or another.

this is NS though "most" of these women never leave the house >_>

jerking off in front of you at the swimming pond or in a parking lot.

Youd be suprised how quick cops will go after such an offense. And I dont mean that as a joke that supposed to be taken as "hur hur KoL has experiance in the matter", but honest to God, its really shocking how much of a priority such an incident will take, because there is the possibility a minor might have been in the area.

Youd be suprised how quick cops will go after such an offense. And I dont mean that as a joke that supposed to be taken as "hur hur KoL has experiance in the matter", but honest to God, its really shocking how much of a priority such an incident will take,
I was quite positively surprised - until I finished reading:
because there is the possibility a minor might have been in the area.

...

Yeah.

Bringing this up might cause a shitstorm, but there is another reason that someone who is assaulted may not report it.

Sometimes, it goes unreported because the assaulted person still cares about their assailant and doesn't want to see that person prosecuted and punished for it. They may even rationalize it by deciding that their assault really wasn't that bad, when compared to what others have gone through.

I also think, for those who are assaulted as children and don't report it at the time, it just seems too far in the past to pursue, even if there are lasting psychological effects.

The more and more of these threads I read, the more and more I realise that I share my gender with a bunch of total assholes.

I can't remember if I've ever agreed with you, before.

Bringing this up might cause a shitstorm, but there is another reason that someone who is assaulted may not report it.

Sometimes, it goes unreported because the assaulted person still cares about their assailant and doesn't want to see that person prosecuted and punished for it. They may even rationalize it by deciding that their assault really wasn't that bad, when compared to what others have gone through.


The extended-family-through-in-laws thing I mentioned, was one of 'those' dynamics. Compounded by the pressure exerted by the church to keep the wife with the abusive husband.

That's what made me feel sick inside. People knew. Supposedly 'christian' people knew... and kept her in it. For years.

The extended-family-through-in-laws thing I mentioned, was one of 'those' dynamics. Compounded by the pressure exerted by the church to keep the wife with the abusive husband.


I haven't been pressured from outside, but I've certainly experienced that type of dynamic.

If I heard about the same thing that happened to me happening to another person, I'd be first in line to argue that the perpetrator should be locked up. But, perhaps rather hypocritically, I've taken no action to have the person who did it to me charged (not that it would be possible so long after the fact, but you know what I mean).

An apology would be nice, but that would probably require me bringing it up, so....yeah.

That's what made me feel sick inside. People knew. Supposedly 'christian' people knew... and kept her in it. For years.

The amount of times Ive seen this is disgusting. Ive seen family members shun other family members because they divourced an abusive husband, which was 'unchristian'.

I also think, for those who are assaulted as children and don't report it at the time, it just seems too far in the past to pursue, even if there are lasting psychological effects.
This is true, I was severely abused as a child (mega dysfunctional family) and although I told adults I was given messages like "you were asking for it" and "quit causing drama"......after years of counseling I know it wasn't my fault (seriously 4 year olds don't "ask" for anything) but I wouldn't report it now because it would mean bringing up way too much and besides it's just my word against theirs now. (even though I am not the only victim, I'm probably the only one who received any counseling.)

Bringing this up might cause a shitstorm, but there is another reason that someone who is assaulted may not report it.

Sometimes, it goes unreported because the assaulted person still cares about their assailant and doesn't want to see that person prosecuted and punished for it. They may even rationalize it by deciding that their assault really wasn't that bad, when compared to what others have gone through.

I also think, for those who are assaulted as children and don't report it at the time, it just seems too far in the past to pursue, even if there are lasting psychological effects.

Without a doubt that is a factor...it is the same as battered person syndrome, where the person becomes so victimized that they can't bring themselves to fight..."He still loves me". "It was partly my fault". "I deserve it". "People have it much worse than I do...I'm really lucky to have them".

This is true, I was severely abused as a child (mega dysfunctional family) and although I told adults I was given messages like "you were asking for it" and "quit causing drama"......after years of counseling I know it wasn't my fault (seriously 4 year olds don't "ask" for anything) but I wouldn't report it now because it would mean bringing up way too much and besides it's just my word against theirs now. (even though I am not the only victim, I'm probably the only one who received any counseling.)

But are these abusers still around children that they might currently be abusing? Maybe there are other victims that would comeforward.

Yeah, but who actually reports a "minor" sexual assault? The police (and pretty much everybody else) would laugh at you for expecting them to prosecute some fucker rubbing his crotch on you in the subway or jerking off in front of you at the swimming pond or in a parking lot.
So I really doubt that "minor" sexual assaults are artificially inflating anything.

On official reports maybe but when most assaults aren't reported (which may include these ones) and when people are asked if they have ever been sexually assaulted by their friends and in surveys they cold very well say yes thus giving these numbers.

So roughly half of the females on NSG have been sexually assaulted, that's pretty shocking.

With more posters voting it now shows 11.43% and the males on NSG holding 9.52%

With more posters voting it now shows 11.43% and the males on NSG holding 9.52%

And the (already noted) difference between male and female participants is almost exactly a 3:1 ratio... which sounds like it could be about right.

(And 79% of female posters know of other people being assaulted, and 59% of male posters know of other people being assaulted).

Which is about 1-in-9 women. Not far off the 'official' estimate. Statistically rather close, considering the small cross-section.

And the (already noted) difference between male and female participants is almost exactly a 3:1 ratio... which sounds like it could be about right.

(And 79% of female posters know of other people being assaulted, and 59% of male posters know of other people being assaulted).

Actually I just looked at the numbers again that was 11.43% of total posters and around 50% of female posters so Hydesland was actually correct in what he was saying.

Indeed 79% and 39% do know of other people being assaulted, however, bear in mind that these may not be all female. I myself selected the "Not assaulted but know someone who has' is a male friend.

Actually I just looked at the numbers again that was 11.43% of total posters and around 50% of female posters so Hydesland was actually correct in what he was saying.

Indeed 79% and 39% do know of other people being assaulted, however, bear in mind that these may not be all female. I myself selected the "Not assaulted but know someone who has' is a male friend.

11.9% of responders (not including the 5 'other' answers) are women that have been assaulted. So... yeah, 12 of 24 female responders - 1-in-2 women.

The amount of times Ive seen this is disgusting. Ive seen family members shun other family members because they divourced an abusive husband, which was 'unchristian'.

That's very unfortunate. Nobody should be told to choose an abusive relationship.

My (fundamentalist, by the way) Christian side of the family was very happy with my mother's decision to divorce my abusive biological father. Strange how some folks with Christian values actually understand what love is, ain't it?

Personally, I very much supported her decision. I'm perfectly content not to have seen the man for the past 15+ years.

I was. It wasn't rape, but it was close. I told one person I know irl (one of my exes) he freaked out and got mad at me. I haven't told anyone else.

Also, I can think of a couple of friends who have also been assaulted and told me as much. At least one was raped while unconscious. It wouldn't really surprise me if more of my friends have been assaulted and just not told me.

I don't personally know anyone who has reported a sexual assault to the authorities.

I was. It wasn't rape, but it was close. I told one person I know irl (one of my exes) he freaked out and got mad at me. I haven't told anyone else.

Also, I can think of a couple of friends who have also been assaulted and told me as much. At least one was raped while unconscious. It wouldn't really surprise me if more of my friends have been assaulted and just not told me.

I don't personally know anyone who has reported a sexual assault to the authorities.

I have a bit of an odd and personal question for you. Did part of you feel better having told someone, even though they might have reacted badly? Was there any sense of freedom in doing so?

The reason I ask is that one friend of mine in particular explained to me that telling someone was important to her because it freed her to some degree from the trauma of the experience.

Forgot to answer my own thread! Whoops.

I chose option one. I was molested by someone at my preschool. I don't really remember it (I remember a little, but memories from age 4 are unreliable), but my mom told me that I told my parents right away and they contacted the preschool right away, and CPS came and asked me questions and made a report. Nothing happened legally, but the woman was fired.

I have known far, far too many people who have been sexually assaulted, both male and female, which is probably why this is such a sensitive topic for me. Off the top of my head, I can think of two male relatives that were sexually assaulted, three female relatives, an old boyfriend from college, and old girlfriend from college... counting myself, that's eight people in my life. Most of them were molested; my ex girlfriend was raped both in childhood and adulthood. My guy friend was molested by his own parents.

Rape is one of the most terrifying things I can imagine, and yet for many years I almost expected it to happen--I was constantly vigilant, imaging scenarios and paths of escape, improvising weapons, walking to my car with my car key tucked between my knuckles. This was mostly during college. I live in a safe neighborhood and work at a safe place, and I've relaxed a little bit and become less paranoid, but every time I go to a club or take BART home late at night that fear just seems to magnify and loom in my imagination. It's a fear that seems almost inherent to being a woman.

Quick question Ryadn. Who or what does BART stand for?

Quick question Ryadn. Who or what does BART stand for?

Bay Area Rapid Transit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit) If you recall the young man who was fatally shot a few months ago, he was killed by BART officers. It's a rail system that connects San Francisco to the North and East Bay. It's very clean, convenient and usually safe, but I've been harassed by men many times riding the train home late at night (it runs until around midnight), when the cars are usually pretty empty.

Forgot to answer my own thread! Whoops.

I chose option one. I was molested by someone at my preschool. I don't really remember it (I remember a little, but memories from age 4 are unreliable), but my mom told me that I told my parents right away and they contacted the preschool right away, and CPS came and asked me questions and made a report. Nothing happened legally, but the woman was fired.

I have known far, far too many people who have been sexually assaulted, both male and female, which is probably why this is such a sensitive topic for me. Off the top of my head, I can think of two male relatives that were sexually assaulted, three female relatives, an old boyfriend from college, and old girlfriend from college... counting myself, that's eight people in my life. Most of them were molested; my ex girlfriend was raped both in childhood and adulthood. My guy friend was molested by his own parents.

Rape is one of the most terrifying things I can imagine, and yet for many years I almost expected it to happen--I was constantly vigilant, imaging scenarios and paths of escape, improvising weapons, walking to my car with my car key tucked between my knuckles. This was mostly during college. I live in a safe neighborhood and work at a safe place, and I've relaxed a little bit and become less paranoid, but every time I go to a club or take BART home late at night that fear just seems to magnify and loom in my imagination. It's a fear that seems almost inherent to being a woman.

You ought to consider purchasing a firearm.

Much obliged, however, I don't think I did hear about the death on new years day. But the fact that BART has its own police force I find disturbing.

You ought to consider purchasing a firearm.

If someone's paranoid about being attacked, I don't think I'd recommend they get a gun (then again, I'm fairly pro-gun control in general). Keeping in mind that I don't really know anything about the poster in question, I wonder, if they're so afraid of being attacked, isn't their a risk that they'll overreact and use force when it isn't nessissary? As much as a gun can stop an attack, it can also make a situation a lot worse if its not used with care and restraint, as anyone should know.

If someone's paranoid about being attacked, I don't think I'd recommend they get a gun (then again, I'm fairly pro-gun control in general).

The age at which one can own a gun ought to be greatly raised.

Keeping in mind that I don't really know anything about the poster in question, I wonder, if they're so afraid of being attacked, isn't their a risk that they'll overreact and use force when it isn't nessissary?

It takes a tremendous amount of will to shoot someone; if anything, the gun probably would not be used even when it should be.

As much as a gun can stop an attack, it can also make a situation a lot worse if its not used with care and restraint, as anyone should know.

She does not even need to load it if she does not wish to; just pointing the weapon can greatly deter would-be attackers.

But are these abusers still around children that they might currently be abusing? Maybe there are other victims that would comeforward.

Well, one of them died thankfully. The other isn't around children anymore the rest of the family figuring out that the abuse spanned 4 generations and that at 84 he's still interested in abusing children, they keep him from being alone with them. I didn't think this was a good enough solution so I don't talk to/see that side of my family at all anymore. I did call CPS and have them investigate but they weren't allowed to talk to the children he does have contact with, so they were unable to build a case.

He has literally abused his sisters, his daughters, his granddaughters, his great granddaughters, and so on. It's the most recent accusations (1999) that got the family to even go so far as to not leave him alone with children, which was a huge step for them, but like I said, not far enough for me. He's never met my daughters or seen them and he never will if I have anything to do with it.

If I ever see him near my house I'll shoot him in the head, and if I go to jail, then that'll be worth it.

The age at which one can own a gun should probably be greatly raised.

Making it comparable to the driving or drinking age might be a good call.

It takes a tremendous amount of will to shoot someone; if anything, the gun probably would not be used even when it should be.

You may be right about this one. Not everyone has it in them to shoot someone, at least outside of extreme circumstances.

She does not even need to load it if she doe snot wish to; just pointing the weapon can greatly deter would-be attackers.

That might scare an attacker off. Or they might pull out a gun themselves. I have grave misgivings about the wisdom of making threats you are not prepared to back up.

He has literally abused his sisters, his daughters, his granddaughters, his great granddaughters, and so on. It's the most recent accusations (1999) that got the family to even go so far as to not leave him alone with children, which was a huge step for them, but like I said, not far enough for me. He's never met my daughters or seen them and he never will if I have anything to do with it.

If I ever see him near my house I'll shoot him in the head, and if I go to jail, then that'll be worth it.

I'm sorry, but this last sentence stood out to me as both utterly unethical and staggeringly stupid.

Tell me, who exactly would take care of your daughters while you were in jail for having self-righteously taken the law into your own hands? Is that what you call "worth it?":rolleyes:

Anyway, I never had much respect for vigilantes.

Making it comparable to the driving or drinking age might be a good call.

It would cut-down on high-school and college shootings.

You may be right about this one. Not everyone has it in them to shoot someone, at least outside of extreme circumstances.


I would find it difficult to kill someone if I was not consumed in anger to the point of animal behaviour.

That might scare an attacker off.

Extremely likely.

Or they might pull out a gun themselves.

Highly unlikely, but even if they did, the man would likely attack anyway.

I have grave misgivings about the wisdom of making threats you are not prepared to back up.

If the U.S. did not pretend to prepare for nuclear war (by sending high alerts made easy for Communists to intercept) when Brezhnev threatened an invasion of Israel, things would looked very grim in the Middle-East.

I'm sorry, but this last sentence stood out to me as both utterly unethical and staggeringly stupid.

Tell me, who exactly would take care of your daughters while you were in jail for having self-righteously taken the law into your own hands? Is that what you call "worth it?":rolleyes:

Anyway, I never had much respect for vigilantes.

My husband will take care of it. I've gone through every other channel I can to remedy myself of this person, if he shows up where I live I can only assume he means harm. I will not let my selfishness keep me from protecting my family.

I'm sorry, but this last sentence stood out to me as both utterly unethical and staggeringly stupid.

Tell me, who exactly would take care of your daughters while you were in jail for having self-righteously taken the law into your own hands? Is that what you call "worth it?":rolleyes:

The law has not prevented the man from continuing to sexually assault persons over the year; this probably would.

Anyway, I never had much respect for vigilantes.

I totally disagree with her idea as well. But I think if you were a mother, you might empathize with her feelings.

If the U.S. did not pretend to prepare for nuclear war (by sending high alerts made easy for Communists to intercept) when Brezhnev threatened an invasion of Israel, things would looked very grim in the Middle-East.

I wasn't aware of that incident, but it probably helped that everyone knew America had the capability and willingness to back up the threat of nuclear war if it came to that.

I wasn't aware of that incident, but it probably helped that everyone knew America had the capability and willingness to back up the threat of nuclear war if it came to that.

1: A gun is the capability.

2: America would not have backed-up that threat; it was a total bluff. We were not prepared to sacrifice millions of lives to protest a Soviet incursion in the Middle East--but the Soviets would not take the risk, even if they thought there was a 2 out 3 chance we will would not pull the trigger. Likewise, a rapist will not likely advance upon a women pointing a gun at him, even if the possibility of being shot is slim. Just seeing the weapon and thinking about it changes the mind of a government or mere individual.

By the way, the historical events which I refer to took place during the Yom Kippur War of October, 1973.

My husband will take care of it. I've gone through every other channel I can to remedy myself of this person, if he shows up where I live I can only assume he means harm. I will not let my selfishness keep me from protecting my family.

Or you could, you know, call the police. That's what they're their for.

I hope you never actually do something as stupid as what you're suggesting, but if you do, I would point out that your comments in this thread could probably be used as evidence of premeditated murder. Which should bump up your sentence nicely.

Also, whatever you say, two parents are better than one. Its not selfishness to make sure your children don't have to see their mother through the bars of a prison.

The law has not prevented the man from continuing to sexually assault persons over the year; this probably would.

So what? You can justify a great deal by arguing that it would permanently resolve some problem or other. For example, I could argue carpet-nuking Iraq would end the war their. However, its still illegal, immoral, and libel to result in a lot of negative consequences, potentially greater than those caused by the original problem. Its not a perfect parallel, granted, but I think you see my point.

I mean, if someone's really a threat, their are circumstances where violence is a nessissary resort. But it should be a last resort, done in self-defense. And as far as the law is concerned, I don't think "he was near my house" is a valid example of self-defense.

I totally disagree with her idea as well. But I think if you were a mother, you might empathize with her feelings.

Due to gender-related reasons, I will never be a mother, but if I was a father, I would want to be around for my children, and I would want to instill in them some respect for the law and legitimate non-violent solutions to problems.

So what? You can justify a great deal by arguing that it would permanently resolve some problem or other. For example, I could argue carpet-nuking Iraq would end the war their. However, its still illegal, immoral, and libel to result in a lot of negative consequences, potentially greater than those caused by the original problem. Its not a perfect parallel, granted, but I think you see my point.

I mean, if someone's really a threat, their are circumstances where violence is a nessissary resort. But it should be a last resort, done in self-defense. And as far as the law is concerned, I don't think "he was near my house" is a valid example of self-defense.

I am not trying to justify the killing of the fellow; I am against the death-penalty. I am merely trying to show you why Smunkeeville feels as she does. The law has failed to deal with an extremely dangerous sadistic rapist, and she feels threatened by a sadistic rapist visiting her house, especially when said pervert has a penchant for child relatives, and those are in stock at the residence.

Due to gender-related reasons, I will never be a mother, but if I was a father, I would want to be around for my children, and I would want to instill in them some respect for the law and legitimate non-violent solutions to problems.

This makes philosophical sense. But still, you do not understand how quickly a mother will go to extreme lengths to prevent even the threat of harm to her young.

Oh, I understand it. I understand a lot of things I don't approve of.

If I was in such a situation, its possible I might be capable of violence. I don't think I'd shoot anyone though, in part because I don't own and have no intention of ever owning a firearm. Also, their are degrees of force, and shooting someone in the head is fairly high on the scale.

Oh, I understand it. I understand a lot of things I don't approve of.

You seemed unusually venomous.

If I was in such a situation, its possible I might be capable of violence. I don't think I'd shoot anyone though, in part because I don't own and have no intention of ever owning a firearm. Also, their are degrees of force, and shooting someone in the head is fairly high on the scale.

A last resort. The difference between us and her is that we identify remorseless sex-offenders as (highly defective) human beings capable of being hurt and deserving to live, but she sees them as dangerous creatures that should be put down if they threaten anyone with their presence.

You seemed unusually venomous.

Maybe. Though I thought I was actually fairly restrained.

Actually, I do kind of regret some of the things I said. I think the attitude of the poster in question is foolish and dangerous, but I don't generally like to get into debates with people I don't know well about their personal lives. If I said anything nasty, unfair, or personally offensive, I retract it. I'm not saying I am guilty of any misconduct, but just incase I was without realizing it.

This should not, of course, be taken as a concession as far as my views on violence, vigilanteism, and the proper course of action in such situations is concerned.

A last resort. The difference between us and her is that we identify remorseless sex-offenders as (highly defective) human beings capable of being hurt and deserving to live, but she sees them as dangerous creatures that should be put down if they threaten anyone with their presence.

An important principle of a free and just society is that everyone has rights, as I presume you are aware. Should we kill people needlessly because they are pedophiles? Should we torture prisoners because they were terrorists? Should we make all violent offenses punishable by death, and do away with fair trials?

Maybe. Though I thought I was actually fairly restrained.

Actually, I do kind of regret some of the things I said. I think the attitude of the poster in question is foolish and dangerous, but I don't generally like to get into debates with people I don't know well about their personal lives. If I said anything nasty, unfair, or personally offensive, I retract it. I'm not saying I am guilty of any misconduct, but just incase I was without realizing it.

This should not, of course, be taken as a concession as far as my views on violence, vigilanteism, and the proper course of action in such situations is concerned.



An important principle of a free and just society is that everyone has rights, as I presume you are aware. Should we kill people needlessly because they are pedophiles? Should we torture prisoners because they were terrorists? Should we make all violent offenses punishable by death, and do away with fair trials?

I agree totally with what you are saying, but this is not about "punishing" the guy. She does not think he is reformed (and why would he be? has he talked to a councilor, even?), so she sees him as a threat. She will kill to defend her children from a known threat.

And to be honest, I think he would assault her children if he had the chance. Just shooting the guy is a bad way to solve the problem, but he is not a normal person--he should see a psychiatrist.

You see her as the average "that man deserves to die!" person, but she is just frightened of him coming near her children.

Or you could, you know, call the police. That's what they're their for.No. They aren't. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police#Protection_of_individuals)

I have a bit of an odd and personal question for you. Did part of you feel better having told someone, even though they might have reacted badly? Was there any sense of freedom in doing so?

Not really. It sort of made me feel worse actually.

The reason I ask is that one friend of mine in particular explained to me that telling someone was important to her because it freed her to some degree from the trauma of the experience.

Giving the guy a swift kick in the balls would perhaps free me from some of the trauma of the experience.

I (female) voted option 3 - I've never been sexually assaulted but I know others who were.

But now I realize that's not really true. It's just that no attacker has ever succeeded in raping me, while some of my friends have been raped and suffered terrible trauma from it. More than half the women I've met had sexual assault in their backgrounds -- some by family members, some by husbands/boyfriends, and some by strangers. Some suffered more than one of those scenarios.

I think I consider myself so outrageously lucky (so far) by comparison that I often shrug off all the pervs in crowded trains who groped me and/or humped me. And yes, for a moment I even forgot the crazy guy who literally grabbed me on the street and tried to drag me into the bushes of a park but who ran off when I hit him. I even forgot the older brother of a childhood schoolmate who tried to maneuver me and some other girls when we were little children into a situation where he could have abused us -- what saved us was an even older brother spotting what he was doing and literally throwing him up against a wall and dragging him away. I didn't realize until years later what had happened that day, nor what my schoolmate must have gone through in her family home.

I just feel like I've been in a war zone my whole life, and I've come this far in it without a scratch despite many close calls, especially compared to so many others who have been hurt terribly, physically, emotionally, socially, etc. -- I feel as if I don't really have a right to claim my scrapes and fights as assaults, even though, yes, that's what they were.

Not really. It sort of made me feel worse actually.

Unfortunate that the people that you would think would be supportive and caring end up just making it hurt worse, huh? :(

Giving the guy a swift kick in the balls would perhaps free me from some of the trauma of the experience.

I would not stop you if you wanted to give it a try. :)

You ought to consider purchasing a firearm.

I dislike guns, and I really don't have a need for one. I live in a safe neighborhood. Most of the situations where I've been in danger have not been with strangers, but with people I knew.

Much obliged, however, I don't think I did hear about the death on new years day. But the fact that BART has its own police force I find disturbing.

I don't know... malls have their own security, don't they? BART needs officers to protect train drivers and passengers, to deal with jumpers (more than you'd think) and to investigate bomb threats and suspicious packages.

You may be right about this one. Not everyone has it in them to shoot someone, at least outside of extreme circumstances.

I have never pointed a gun at anyone, but my limited experience wielding weapons in self-defense tells me that I am the sort of person who would probably shoot first and throw up later.

I dislike guns, and I really don't have a need for one. I live in a safe neighborhood. Most of the situations where I've been in danger have not been with strangers, but with people I knew.

I thought it might make you feel less frightened on your trips about the city.

I thought it might make you feel less frightened on your trips about the city.

I think I need to soothe my own paranoia, probably. Carrying a gun would frighten me even more; I would find a way somehow to shoot off my little toe or something.

I think I need to soothe my own paranoia, probably. Carrying a gun would frighten me even more; I would find a way somehow to shoot off my little toe or something.

You could apply Halloween makeup to diminish your ravishing features in the presence of ruffians.

A last resort. The difference between us and her is that we identify remorseless sex-offenders as (highly defective) human beings capable of being hurt and deserving to live, but she sees them as dangerous creatures that should be put down if they threaten anyone with their presence.

It's one thing to identify nameless, faceless sex offenders as human beings with rights and all of that. It's another to deal with actual sex offenders who have hurt you in the past or who are currently hurting another person.

I'm capable of being perfectly rational about rape when removed from it and to discuss the rights of rapists just as I would those of any other criminal. But I also think that, if I ever caught someone in the act, I woudln't be able to act rationally. That person might be dead before I even realized what I was doing.

It's one thing to identify nameless, faceless sex offenders as human beings with rights and all of that. It's another to deal with actual sex offenders who have hurt you in the past or who are currently hurting another person.

I'm capable of being perfectly rational about rape when removed from it and to discuss the rights of rapists just as I would those of any other criminal. But I also think that, if I ever caught someone in the act, I woudln't be able to act rationally. That person might be dead before I even realized what I was doing.

I would probably be able to stop myself from killing the perp, but I might inflict major, even permanent injuries.

This thread diminishes my limited remaining hope for humanity. It's really frustrating to read that pretty much every woman who's posted here has reported being groped or felt up or harassed. Who in the name of all the gods are the people doing the groping, and who in all the hells failed to teach them that you just don't feel up random women on the street? How goddamned hard is it to learn "don't touch"? And what kind of socially retarded sociopath is so lacking in self-control as to actually go ahead and do it?

I fully support the right of women to sock anyone who gropes them. Serves 'em right.

A last resort. The difference between us and her is that we identify remorseless sex-offenders as (highly defective) human beings capable of being hurt and deserving to live, but she sees them as dangerous creatures that should be put down if they threaten anyone with their presence.
Not all of them, just the one who has threatened my life and my children. I've purposefully moved and made it hard to find me. If he finds me, he means harm and he's said that. If he shows up I don't have time to wait on police to file a complaint, I'll be dead before they get here and my daughters will be gone. I stand behind my statement.

Not all of them, just the one who has threatened my life and my children. I've purposefully moved and made it hard to find me. If he finds me, he means harm and he's said that. If he shows up I don't have time to wait on police to file a complaint, I'll be dead before they get here and my daughters will be gone. I stand behind my statement.

If I recall, you have dealt with intruders before, so you probably know pretty well that one cannot depend upon the police to defend oneself.

I would probably be able to stop myself from killing the perp, but I might inflict major, even permanent injuries.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I can stop myself from killing, but I'd probably choose to make sure he wouldn't be able to move any of his limbs properly for a good while.

mom was involved with Sexual Abuse Crisis Services, so we would frequently get calls from the center for her to call back...I don't know if this is just a pet issue of hers or if she was abused herself.

eta: I was also once accused of molesting a friend (actually, at the time, they were my best friend) who was passed out at a party. It took several friends telling them I, too, was passed out. In a different house. 5 miles away from where they were. Needless to say, I'm not friends with them anymore.

Was he a shit fuck then?:p

This thread diminishes my limited remaining hope for humanity. It's really frustrating to read that pretty much every woman who's posted here has reported being groped or felt up or harassed. Who in the name of all the gods are the people doing the groping, and who in all the hells failed to teach them that you just don't feel up random women on the street? How goddamned hard is it to learn "don't touch"? And what kind of socially retarded sociopath is so lacking in self-control as to actually go ahead and do it?

Asked and answered (see bold).

I fully support the right of women to sock anyone who gropes them. Serves 'em right.
A touch for a touch, and they'll enjoy it as much as I did.

The pervs I got groped by in crowded trains happened on the NYC subway during rush hour, when trains were so crowded that I personally witnessed a few instances of people fainting and not falling down. Some losers would take advantage of that level of unwanted but unavoidable closeness to hump a woman's hip/groin or do a reach-around to her crotch or breast. I and many other women got into the habit of carrying umbrellas and/or hard-sided bags/briefcases. Guess what we used them for.