NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7964364.stm


N Korea 'places missile on pad'

A South Korean soldier (near) stares at a North Korea soldier across their border (file image)
Tensions have been high on the Korean peninsula

North Korea has placed what is thought to be a long-range missile on a launch pad, Japanese and US officials say.

North Korea had already said it would send a satellite into orbit in early April, using a long-range missile.

The US, Japan and South Korea are concerned Pyongyang will test its Taepodong-2 long-range missile instead of launching a satellite.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that if North Korea launched a missile, there would be "consequences".

Japanese PM Taro Aso said plans were being made to shoot down any rocket that threatened to hit the country.

North Korea has said it plans to carry out the controversial launch between 4 and 8 April.

The Taepodong 2 missile is capable of reaching Alaska from the Musudan-ri base in Hwadae on North Korea's north-east coast.

It first tested the missile in July 2006, but it failed less than a minute after launch.

Pyongyang warning

Speaking during a visit to Mexico, Mrs Clinton said the US would raise any missile launch with the UN, with an impact for stalled six-nation talks on ending North Korea's nuclear programme.

"We have made it very clear that the North Koreans pursue this pathway at a cost and with consequences to the six-party talks which we would like to see revived and moving forward as quickly as possible," she said.

On Tuesday, Pyongyang said any UN sanctions imposed for the launch would mean the end of the six-nation talks.

Japan has suggested it could deploy a vessel equipped with missile interceptor technology to the Sea of Japan (East Sea) to shoot the rocket down.

On Wednesday, Prime Minister Aso said Japan's security council will meet this week to make preparations to shoot the missile down if it threatens to land on Japan.

Also on Wednesday, South Korea's chief negotiator to the six-nation talks, Wi Sung-lac, said a launch would trigger "countermeasures", without saying what those might be.

A satellite launch and a long-rang missile test would both use the Taepodong 2, analysts say.

Pyongyang has already said the rocket taking its satellite into orbit will cross over Japan, dropping booster stages to its east and west.

North Korea has warned the US, South Korea and Japan not to interfere with its launch.

Thoughts? Theories? Speculation?

Another ploy to obtain foreign aid. Once they get the aid they want, they'll lie low again until they want more.

How am I supposed to take a weapon system pronounced 'Tape-a-dong' seriously?

Kim JungIl equals Chavez without oil.

How am I supposed to take a weapon system pronounced 'Tape-a-dong' seriously?

You're not...or are you?

How am I supposed to take a weapon system pronounced 'Tape-a-dong' seriously?

It is not pronounced the way your thinking.

How am I supposed to take a weapon system pronounced 'Tape-a-dong' seriously?

Inside info says they taped several together and plan on injecting an extract of tiger penis to raise it into orbit.:D

Inside info says they taped several together and plan on injecting an extract of tiger penis to raise it into orbit.:D

:eek:

sounds perfectly peaceful, you warmongering Amerikans just want an excuse to invade so you can have more (always more!) :mad:

er...I mean its just NK doing what it always does which is act all tough until a strong breeze comes from the South which is nothing but imperialist aggression

Glorious Dear Leader Kim Jong-il, comrade and love of the people of the Korean peninsula, and absolute spirit of the Juche and Songun ideas, politics, and military method, is simply defending for himself a country prone to the attack of US bellicose imperialist sociopaths who are looking for a stepping-stone into invading the whole of Asia so as to increase the span of their imperialist hegemony. And yes, this has touched a nerve with me: I am a sympathizer of the Juche idea and all it stands for.

so as to increase the span of their imperialist hegemony.

that sounds like American propaganda to me! *calls in skinny guards to take you camping*

Glorious Dear Leader Kim Jong-il, comrade and love of the people of the Korean peninsula, and absolute spirit of the Juche and Songun ideas, politics, and military method, is simply defending for himself a country prone to the attack of US bellicose imperialist sociopaths who are looking for a stepping-stone into invading the whole of Asia so as to increase the span of their imperialist hegemony. And yes, this has touched a nerve with me: I am a sympathizer of the Juche idea and all it stands for.

Huh?

Im tempted to call Poe.

From the last couple of posts one would think that American imperialism is a bad thing.

that sounds like American propaganda to me! *calls in skinny guards to take you camping*

It's pretty much word-for-word what the Korean Central News Association comes out with periodically.

Huh?

Im tempted to call Poe.

Do it. I've said my piece and quite frankly don't care if you reject it.

The concepts of Juche are fairly sensible; their implementation has been nothing less than idiotic.

NK is doing this for the same reason NK does anything big: for the glory of the emperor. They want to show that their regime is the equal of everyone else. Never mind that they can't power much outside Pyongyang.

The concepts of Juche are fairly sensible; their implementation has been nothing less than idiotic.

NK is doing this for the same reason NK does anything big: for the glory of the emperor. They want to show that their regime is the equal of everyone else. Never mind that they can't power much outside Pyongyang.

It's for the glory of theirselves actually; the so-called 'emperor' and people are basically one, hand-in-hand, and all that, by the diction of Juche philosophy.

EDIT: Speaking from the NK perspective, naturally.

It's for the glory of theirselves actually; the so-called 'emperor' and people are basically one, hand-in-hand, and all that, by the diction of Juche philosophy.

EDIT: Speaking from the NK perspective, naturally.

Hmm, I am reminded of Louis XIV - "I am the state."

sounds perfectly peaceful, you warmongering Amerikans just want an excuse to invade so you can have more (always more!) :mad:
You missed 2 of the Ks :tongue:

If North Korea's "Sattelitte" gets shot down and NK attacks whoever did it, The US will completely OWN NK. NK would just be a crater. And for all of you that say the US has Imperial ideologies. REFER TO MY SIG! The Annual GDP of a country like Djibouti, would only run the us for 1 hour. A SINGLE HOUR! 60 MINUTES! 360 SECONDS!

If North Korea's "Sattelitte" gets shot down and NK attacks whoever did it, The US will completely OWN NK. NK would just be a crater. And for all of you that say the US has Imperial ideologies. REFER TO MY SIG! The Annual GDP of a country like Djibouti, would only run the us for 1 hour. A SINGLE HOUR! 60 MINUTES! 360 SECONDS!
Thank you captain loud and obvious.

WHaT?!!



oh, wait, its Korea...Korea aint shit...*moves along*

The concepts of Juche are fairly sensible; their implementation has been nothing less than idiotic.

NK is doing this for the same reason NK does anything big: for the glory of the emperor. They want to show that their regime is the equal of everyone else. Never mind that they can't power much outside Pyongyang.

Economic isolationism is never a sensible policy.

Economic isolationism is never a sensible policy.

Indeed, it wouldn't be. We'd rather have the world turning out like this, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0yQunhOaU0) or even this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CUoes1x9-0).

(Economic isolationism is only a small part of the Juche philosophy, believe it or not)

Indeed, it wouldn't be. We'd rather have the world turning out like this, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0yQunhOaU0) or even this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CUoes1x9-0).
Shove it up yer commie arse, trade and the flow of information between people has made the world through humanity's eyes the technological wonderland is today.

Shove it up yer commie arse, trade and the flow of information between people has made the world through humanity's eyes the technological wonderland is today.

When that flow of information is increasingly controlled by Rupert Murdoch, I highly doubt we'll sustain that effort forever...

When that flow of information is increasingly controlled by Rupert Murdoch, I highly doubt we'll sustain that effort forever...
... yeah I mean scientific information, not the footie results.

... yeah I mean scientific information, not the footie results.

What's to stop him from buying, say, the FDA, and turning it into a big advertising mouthpiece for a sports drink?

or even this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CUoes1x9-0).


That vid is hilarious.

What's to stop him from buying, say, the FDA, and turning it into a big advertising mouthpiece for a sports drink?
The FDA monitors crops, drugs etc., it is not a research company.

The FDA monitors crops, drugs etc., it is not a research company.

My base point being in the world where money is the main value-holding objective standard to which nothing else, such as innate intelligence or talent, could compare, he has the potential to own everything in the capitalist world, possibly directing the entirety of it for worse. Hence why I posted the link to Idiocracy.

My base point being in the world where money is the main value-holding objective standard to which nothing else, such as innate intelligence or talent, could compare
And how do you get money?

Intelligence and talent, at least somewhere along the line. If, say, Paris Hilton is really poor at running a business, and is surrounded by equally weak advisors and managers, her own children will have no inheritance.

And if I do pretty well in life, my children are going to be in a rich household, hurrah.
he has the potential to own everything in the capitalist world
Murdoch is rich, but he's not that rich.
possibly directing the entirety of it for worse.
I don't think he'd really have time to.
Hence why I posted the link to Idiocracy.
Yeah it's a dreadful film.

And how do you get money?

Intelligence and talent, at least somewhere along the line. If, say, Paris Hilton is really poor at running a business, and is surrounded by equally weak advisors and managers, her own children will have no inheritance.

Inheritance arguably, in countries like United Kingdom where you know fine well (being a UK citizen yourself) that old established money has power over innovation.

And if I do pretty well in life, my children are going to be in a rich household, hurrah.

Which adds to the inheritance problem. Your children aren't guaranteed to inherit all of your intellectual characteristics.

Murdoch is rich, but he's not that rich.

My main focus was his rate of wealth and asset expansion during the 90s and 2000s, not the base quantity. Perhaps his potential may be an over-exxagerated projection of mine, but we can't be too sure.

I don't think he'd really have time to.

I can't be sure that he's as busy as you say.

Yeah it's a dreadful film.

In which sense? Because if you're arguing that this is the way America's going, you're correct.

Inheritance arguably, in countries like United Kingdom where you know fine well (being a UK citizen yourself) that old established money has power over innovation.
... wut?
Which adds to the inheritance problem. Your children aren't guaranteed to inherit all of your intellectual characteristics.
In which case they probably won't do so well in life.
My main focus was his rate of wealth and asset expansion during the 90s and 2000s, not the base quantity. Perhaps his potential may be an over-exxagerated projection of mine, but we can't be too sure.
I'll be sure for you - don't be stupid.
I can't be sure that he's as busy as you say.
Then why would he want to take over the world's enterprises -_________-
In which sense? Because if you're arguing that this is the way America's going, you're correct.
Dreadful writing and acting, and far too crude.

... wut?

In which case they probably won't do so well in life.

I'll be sure for you - don't be stupid.

Then why would he want to take over the world's enterprises -_________-

Dreadful writing and acting, and far too crude.

You've no right to assert assurance over me; I'll be less polite -- don't be so gullible.

Also, I think that was partly intended to portray the base point of the film; dysgenics and all that.

You've no right to assert assurance over me; I'll be less polite -- don't be so gullible.
Right.
Also, I think that was partly intended to portray the base point of the film; dysgenics and all that.
Yeah, it was naff though.

Yeah, it was naff though.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that; you don't have to repeat yourself.

Inside info says they taped several together and plan on injecting an extract of tiger penis to raise it into orbit.:D

I approve of this.

Thoughts? Theories? Speculation?

The missile is going to "fail" just like the last one they test-fired in '06 did.

Economic isolationism is never a sensible policy.

No, it isn't. But the actual policy of Juche is not Isolationism, but rather, self sufficiency, the capacity to make do with only what your own nation grows and makes, whether or not you have to.

The fact they have fundamentally failed even that modest goal says a great deal about their competence.

No, it isn't. But the actual policy of Juche is not Isolationism, but rather, self sufficiency, the capacity to make do with only what your own nation grows and makes, whether or not you have to.

The fact they have fundamentally failed even that modest goal says a great deal about their competence.

They haven't failed the goal; it was never attained properly in the first place. That's not to say it won't be.

They haven't failed the goal; it was never attained properly in the first place. That's not to say it won't be.

Not only have they failed to attain they're goal, they've left North Korea reliant on outside aid. They have achieved, over a period of 55 years, the exact opposite of what they set out to do. If that's not a failure, then I don't know what is.

Not only have they failed to attain they're goal, they've left North Korea reliant on outside aid. They have achieved, over a period of 55 years, the exact opposite of what they set out to do. If that's not a failure, then I don't know what is.

Blatant US propaganda... if you've noted the Songunblog youtube channel, it is clear that US Hollywood propaganda studios are actually filming areas of the poorest Arab worlds and calling it 'North Korea being reliant on our aid.'

On a more serious note; I still don't think the idea should be poo-pooed on because of a few misapplications nonetheless.

To be quite frank, my support for North Korea is only because of the Juche philosophy, if nothing else; which doesn't mean I particularly love Kim Jong-il or his weird exploits of quasi-religious revolution mythalore (the devotion to such by his party resulted in the shortfalls in Juche IMO). I thought I'd make this clear. My first post on this was probably misleading; I was simply parodying the KCNA style of reporting.

How am I supposed to take a weapon system pronounced 'Tape-a-dong' seriously?

It's pronounced tie-po-dong, actually.

They can't afford a decent website (http://www.korea-dpr.com/), what makes you think they can afford an effective missile system?

Blatant US propaganda... if you've noted the Songunblog youtube channel, it is clear that US Hollywood propaganda studios are actually filming areas of the poorest Arab worlds and calling it 'North Korea being reliant on our aid.'

Oh, because the famine of the 90s was all a big lie, and North Koreans are all rich, well-fed people?

Oh, because the famine of the 90s was all a big lie, and North Koreans are all rich, well-fed people?

If you bothered to read further on you'd note I was being sarcastic -___-

They can't afford a decent website (http://www.korea-dpr.com/), what makes you think they can afford an effective missile system?

Not official Korean website; that's the Korean Friends Association, which I am a member of. It's owned by a Portuguese guy. The title is misleading, and I think that's partly because he was disenfranchised by the fact he sucked at his old IT job (yes, I have personal qualms with him)

Edit; here's the guy in question - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Cao_de_Benos_de_Les_y_P%C3%A9rez

Huh?

Im tempted to call Poe.

Poe, or someone trying to fill in the void left by Angry Internet Stalinist.

Poe, or someone trying to fill in the void left by Angry Internet Stalinist.

Oh yes, Juche == Stalinism; it wasn't a response to the fact that Stalin was himself a champagne idealist... Right... Uhuh...

I can't believe we've actually found somebody defending North Korea. I didn't think it was actually possible. But here we are.

I can't believe we've actually found somebody defending North Korea. I didn't think it was actually possible. But here we are.

This, one billion times this.

If you bothered to read further on you'd note I was being sarcastic -___-

I can't tell with you.

This, one billion times this.

Believe it, I'm for real.

I can't tell with you.

Does the sentence start "On a more serious note," mean nothing?

Poe, or someone trying to fill in the void left by Angry Internet Stalinist.

Andaras was funny, this bloke isn't.

Andaras was funny, this bloke isn't.

I've no intention of being. I'm not here to entertain.

Actually, the better question would be why anyone defending North Korea has not taken the initiative and relocated to their socialist paradise. After all, what better way to implement the "true" Juche idea than to roll up your sleeves and get to work?

Of course, I'd recommend bringing some quality food and basic consumer goods...

Actually, the better question would be why anyone defending North Korea has not taken the initiative and relocated to their socialist paradise. After all, what better way to implement the "true" Juche idea than to roll up your sleeves and get to work? Of course, I'd recommend bringing some food...

We're not isolating ourselves for your benefit. The best advocacy takes place in the face of adversity.

We're not isolating ourselves for your benefit. The best advocacy takes place in the face of adversity.

Why would you be isolated? Surely North Korea has open and free communication with the rest of the world and its government is more than willing to allow its people and foreigners to freely travel and visit other countries, right?

Why would you be isolated? Surely North Korea has open and free communication with the rest of the world and its government is more than willing to allow its people and foreigners to freely travel and visit other countries, right?

Only if the US would remove its imperialistically-motivated embargoes, or if the force of the working classes are finally an impetus to get Juche rolling over here. Both of those will do for me.

Back on topic. It reminds me of the USSR and Sputnik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-7_Semyorka), only with a track record that make's America's early attempts at space exploration look remarkable.

If we are lucky, then the launch will resemble this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3758810537388720535&ei=LN3LSaftOYrw-wHx_ezhDQ&q=rocket+explodes+after+launch&hl=en&client=firefox-a) or this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7295720256473293932&ei=jt3LSdaMOJni-QHR9rnUDQ&q=rocket+collapses&hl=en&client=firefox-a).

If something goes wrong during the Second Stage, that missile could very well fall on Japan. Japan, obviously, wouldn't be happy about this. So I full well expect a number of Hatakaze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatakaze_class_destroyer) and Kongo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong%C5%8D_class_destroyer) Class Destroyers in the flight path to shoot it down with assistance from Misawa Air Base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misawa_Air_Base).

If that thing doesn't detonate on the pad, I fully expect Japan to shoot it down. Especially if it has not achieved a height of 50 km by the time it reaches Japanese Territorial Waters.

As for intent, mainly three theories.
1. Kim Jong-Il is running low on food for his peasants, and fears a revolt. They have eight lane roads in their capitol but no cars. They have TV's and Radios, but nothing with which to power them. Outside of the capitol, they might as well be living in the 18th Century.

2. North Korea has a history of selling weapons to Iran, who likes to sell to Hamas and Hezbollah. The Taepodong has a range of 10,000 km. In the hands of Iran, that would enable them to hit numerous locations in Israel and Europe with High Explosive Warheads, reaching as far as France or Germany, if launched from Tabriz, where the 2nd Tactical Air Wing is located.

3. As a closed state, North Korea's stability comes from an intense fear of the outside world. This fear needs to be cultivated via propaganda and provocation acts, such as this, to show that the Barbarians are at the Gate, and that the people need to give up more to the military to protect them. This creates a Military Aristocracy, and in North Korea's example, destroys the farmland not saved for the Military.

Am I claiming that North Korea might be prepping to sell these to Iran if they work? No, I am outright stating it. I would say that it is only about a 30% chance, where as the provocation to increase power has a 70% chance of being accurate.

Only if the US would remove its imperialistically-motivated embargoes, or if the force of the working classes are finally an impetus to get Juche rolling over here. Both of those will do for me.

North Korea does almost $5 billion worth of trade with its neighbors, so that's not it. Embargoes might hurt their economy, but it doesn't explain why their people can't leave the country, can't own cell phones or international lines, can't access the internet or own computers from home and it definitely doesn't explain why they can't seem to allow the foreigners they do let in to travel and sightsee on their own. The socialist paradise should have no qualms about giving its visitors the freedom to experience the successes of its workers, intelligentsia and peasants firsthand without being shadowed by "tour guides".

Again, why wouldn't you want to work in North Korea to bring about Juche? Surely the government would welcome any attempt to reform it towards its socialist ideals, right?

It's always convenient that people defending these countries never seem to want to live in them, although I have to admit using the excuse that you're going to wait until the stunning success of Juche is brought to other countries is one of the better ones I've heard of in a while.

As for intent, mainly three theories.
1. Kim Jong-Il is running low on food for his peasants, and fears a revolt. They have eight lane roads in their capitol but no cars. They have TV's and Radios, but nothing with which to power them. Outside of the capitol, they might as well be living in the 18th Century.

Possibly, but North Koreans are famously loyal (brainwashed) to the dear Leader. There's been famine in the country for almost a decade now, so why would the people suddenly rise up?


2. North Korea has a history of selling weapons to Iran, who likes to sell to Hamas and Hezbollah. The Taepodong has a range of 10,000 km. In the hands of Iran, that would enable them to hit numerous locations in Israel and Europe with High Explosive Warheads, reaching as far as France or Germany, if launched from Tabriz, where the 2nd Tactical Air Wing is located.

Iran can already hit Isreal, so that not really anything special. And they probably wouldn't hit Europe, since Europeans are most opposed to any millitary stike on Iran. The Iranians themselves seem to have chilled out a bit, and since any talk of a strike disappeared when Bush left, I doubt they're itching to start sabre-rattling just right again.

3. As a closed state, North Korea's stability comes from an intense fear of the outside world. This fear needs to be cultivated via propaganda and provocation acts, such as this, to show that the Barbarians are at the Gate, and that the people need to give up more to the military to protect them. This creates a Military Aristocracy, and in North Korea's example, destroys the farmland not saved for the Military.

Possible, but there's no need for a new rocket to do this.

Am I claiming that North Korea might be prepping to sell these to Iran if they work? No, I am outright stating it. I would say that it is only about a 30% chance, where as the provocation to increase power has a 70% chance of being accurate.

That's great, but you're not exactly a reliable source.

i've no intention of being. I'm not here to entertain.
:d :d :d

Oh, I know that I'm am not the most reliable source, I am just an amatuer sociologist, but I figured I would give my two cents on the issue.

And while I do agree that the North Korean's are brainwashed into loyalty, there are more Double-Thinkers than people suspect over there. The very lack of a visible and large scale group of dissenters proves this. A population can only take so much before it snaps and rises up against the government which rules over them. And I think that the growing amounts of knowledge that is filtering into North Korea is stretching it ever further. What better way to ease that tension then to show that there are a large number of belligerent nations willing to stomp you flat for a "Satellite Launch."

Thus, the Rocket. It fulfills the need for the Military Aristocracy, as these big scary South Koreans and Americans (If you read up on the DMZ, only the biggest, strongest members of the South Korean Army are allowed as Border Guards) would crush the nation and kill the children if there was no big strong military aristocracy with all of their benefits and privileges over the common man.

Yes, Iran has chilled out, and yes, they can already hit Israel. But the Warhead Loadouts are lower then what the Taepodong 2 could fit. Larger by an order of magnitude. And, if this where to convince Europe to act decisively, as opposed to just issuing Resolutions from out of New York, then Iran would be able to blackmail Europe into not actually getting involved.

But, I always look for Worst Case scenarios. Most likely, it is just The Troll annoyed that he wasn't getting enough publicity for his backwards little country (Turkmenistan considers them backwards, and Turkmenistan is considered backwards by their neighbors, so take it as you will).

...The Troll...

I resent the indignation, Kim Jong-il's just misunderstood.

It's always convenient that people defending these countries never seem to want to live in them...

Wrong again. I simply don't have the means. Blame your own system for that.

Wrong again. I simply don't have the means. Blame your own system for that.

Well, you'd think the great socialist utopia would be able to help in that regard...but you could always take a train there, although it would be a long ride.

Well, you'd think the great socialist utopia would be able to help in that regard...but you could always take a train there, although it would be a long ride.

I'm aware of that. To be fair, one of my side-interests is the trans-Siberian... always wanted to go on it. Should be interesting.

I'll let this get back on topic; I think I've said more than my piece.

Guys, don't feed the troll.

You know what? I won't. You're on ignore :)

This message is hidden because Ledgersia is on your ignore list.

Ah, the peace.

Taboksol, apologies for calling you a troll, and to everyone else for hijacking. I'll delete my previous two posts.