NationStates Jolt Archive

In your experience (or observations), can military training and service restructure a person's mind to be more viable to survive?

Backstory: The other day, I mentioned something about the French Foreign Legion, jokingly suggesting I was going to fly to France to apply.

So this fellow says "The French Foreign Legion services in Africa. You'd have to go there to join."

I tried to explain that although the FFL services in Africa (and elsewhere), their recruiting is done in France at a number of offices, with the main induction and training center in Aubagne. This is by French Law.

He claimed that because its the "Foreign" legion, that French law wouldn't apply, and that since the legions are posted elsewhere, they can't recruit in France. He was quite adamant.

This resulted in my mind cracking (again), and I've been re-imagining the argument over and over again. Its enough that the frustration of it makes me want to gun my motorcycle into the Grand Canyon, sort of like a really weak version of Evil Knievel. This happens often enough now that about 12 hours out of the day, I'm paralyzed with similar arguments.

All the fine doctors of various sorts are unable to even agree on what is happening, and have exhausted the various treatments that might fix it. It has been dubbed "intractable".

However, they say the military can brainwash people. I'm sure not all do, as many military service people are fine thinkers. But some say its at least possible, that the military can wipe your "self" clean, "tear it down", as they say, and build it back up.

So, NSG, from nations and militaries all over the world, I ask you:

Can military service save a dying mind?

Or is this like a retarded person thinking they can just show up at a University and suddenly be made normative?

Considering I have one guy who just joined up and has the capability, courage, and strength of a dying cockroach in a lightbulb factory, I'd say no. A few years ago maybe, but not now. Oh, and the stupid does not disappear in the military, in fact it is usually encouraged by and carried out by leadership (2 weeks of packing and unpacking a railway car so that we can make sure everything is in there, not in there, and packed correctly.)

It's called brainwashing, not brain-fixing! You can clean a broken machine all you like, but it's not going to make it work again. In fact, the military tends to reject those applicants in need of brain repairs, since they specifically lack the intelligence to do it. I suggest a brain mechanic.

No.

It'll all be ruined by a closet gay sergent.

It can help you with personal discipline and organization.
It will not make you smarter, but can help you to realize your full potential.

Considering I have one guy who just joined up and has the capability, courage, and strength of a dying cockroach in a lightbulb factory, I'd say no. A few years ago maybe, but not now. Oh, and the stupid does not disappear in the military, in fact it is usually encouraged by and carried out by leadership (2 weeks of packing and unpacking a railway car so that we can make sure everything is in there, not in there, and packed correctly.)

Does one learn (or become forcibly conditioned) to better endure the stupidity, through this?

That is to say, after enough times unpacking the car, does one develope the ability to not be bothered by it?

you should of told your friend to put his balls where his mouth is and fly to France to apply

as for OP: its allot like finding god only hes holding an LSW and calling you a doss **** in a thick Scottish accent

Does one learn (or become forcibly conditioned) to better endure the stupidity, through this?

That is to say, after enough times unpacking the car, does one develope the ability to not be bothered by it?

Not really, most people just bitch loudly and get it over with as soon as possible.

It's called brainwashing, not brain-fixing! You can clean a broken machine all you like, but it's not going to make it work again. In fact, the military tends to reject those applicants in need of brain repairs, since they specifically lack the intelligence to do it. I suggest a brain mechanic.

The brain mechanics, from various schools of thought and disciplines, have thrown in the towel.

My hope is that they could completely destroy the old machine (or at least its software), and replace it with a new one.

My recent reading in neuroplasticity indicates that substantive systemic changes in fundamental brain function are more possible than was previously thought. Sadly, there is little agreement in the literature on how it can be guided. I was hoping the comparatively extreme approach of the military might bear fruit.

as for OP: its allot like finding god only hes holding an LSW and calling you a doss **** in a thick Scottish accent

Was he wearing a leather wrist band with a crown on it?

If not, that wasn't god. Merely one of his sadistic, and foul-mouthed, lieutanants.

It can help you with personal discipline and organization.
It will not make you smarter, but can help you to realize your full potential.

I should explain...the dysfunction of my brain is not merely insufficient "smartness". I'm generally capable of applying intellect, for short periods.

I've been able to briefly function adequately in some fields requiring a limited scope of intelligence. For example, I scored in the 97th percentile for the entrance exam to Law School, I'm published in solid state physics, I've been invited to train at national laboratories. I would definitely love to be smarter, but that's not the sole axis on which I'm deficient.

Arguments like the one I detailed above (admittedly tl;dr for many) cause my brain to want to stop existing. In the face of experiences like the one above, my self-awarness exerts a strong impetus to cease all experience.

I was hoping something like crawling through a mine field would eradicate the heuristics and perspective of my old mind and replace with something tougher.

no

the military can shape up a flabby mind but it cannot fix a broken one.

The brain mechanics, from various schools of thought and disciplines, have thrown in the towel.

My hope is that they could completely destroy the old machine (or at least its software), and replace it with a new one.

My recent reading in neuroplasticity indicates that substantive systemic changes in fundamental brain function are more possible than was previously thought. Sadly, there is little agreement in the literature on how it can be guided. I was hoping the comparatively extreme approach of the military might bear fruit.

Hmm, yeah, you'd probably have to go back to the manufacturer, and I don't know if they even have the right parts and machinery anymore.

Perhaps a cult? Scientology is 'in' these days.

no

the military can shape up a flabby mind but it cannot fix a broken one.

Damn. I was worried that was the case.

Anybody run into a different conclusion, and why?

Hmm, yeah, you'd probably have to go back to the manufacturer, and I don't know if they even have the right parts and machinery anymore.

Perhaps a cult? Scientology is 'in' these days.

You know, I tried one. I can't afford the Scientologists, so I went with the Raelians.

A lot of fun, great people, but hanging out with them didn't stop the arguments in my head.

I think part of the problem was I couldn't commit to their principle belief, that humans were genetically engineered by space aliens who left clues about themselves in the bible.

Great, great women, though.

no

the military can shape up a flabby mind but it cannot fix a broken one.

I am prone to agree. Discipline and organization are what the military can give, but its not like they can give you things like curiosity and intuition.

Damn. I was worried that was the case.

Anybody run into a different conclusion, and why?

If you're a bright as you say you are then you'll probably just find the military to be vaguely amusing.

The whole 'break you down to build you up' thing doesn't really work when you can see exactly what they're trying to do and can even quote the psychologists who've worked in that area of human conditioning when they bark at you "Why are you laughing?".

I am prone to agree. Discipline and organization are what the military can give, but its not like they can give you things like curiosity and intuition.

Curiosity actually was a driving characteristic in my work in Physics. Its not the absence of those particular attributes that I mean when I describe my mind as "dying".

Its more the sudden, maladaptive discontinuity and pain that occur when faced with experiences like the one described in the OP.

Arguments like the one I detailed above (admittedly tl;dr for many) cause my brain to want to stop existing. In the face of experiences like the one above, my self-awarness exerts a strong impetus to cease all experience.
And you thought what could fix this was joining the military?

Even if you've been to several doctors/psychologists and none so far has been able to help you - you're still better off going to several more than losing your last will to live in the military or, for that matter, getting yourself killed on a wilderness survival trip or whatever else is the plan du jour.

If you're a bright as you say you are then you'll probably just find the military to be vaguely amusing.

The whole 'break you down to build you up' thing doesn't really work when you can see exactly what they're trying to do and can even quote the psychologists who've worked in that area of human conditioning when they bark at you "Why are you laughing?".

Does overt cognition of the methods applied reduce their effectiveness if they're aimed at deeper emotive associations?

For example, I might know that a particular aversion inducing process is intentional, but that won't prevent parts of my brain from almost autonomically forming the associations of stimuli, and developing an essentially involuntary response.

Still, you could be right. For it to be truly effective, at some point I would have to buy into it, and I may not be able to.

Curiosity actually was a driving characteristic in my work in Physics. Its not the absence of those particular attributes that I mean when I describe my mind as "dying".

Its more the sudden, maladaptive discontinuity and pain that occur when faced with experiences like the one described in the OP.
dont your doctors have ANY recommendations of treatments that might help you?

And you thought what could fix this was joining the military?

I was exploring it as a possibility, because I speculated the military could train me to not care as much about my personal existence, perhaps subordinate my very sense of self to something else. Its essentially trading one sort of death for another, but it would keep me physically alive.

In your experience (or observations), can military training and service restructure a person's mind to be more viable to survive?

Backstory: The other day, I mentioned something about the French Foreign Legion, jokingly suggesting I was going to fly to France to apply.

So this fellow says "The French Foreign Legion services in Africa. You'd have to go there to join."

I tried to explain that although the FFL services in Africa (and elsewhere), their recruiting is done in France at a number of offices, with the main induction and training center in Aubagne. This is by French Law.

He claimed that because its the "Foreign" legion, that French law wouldn't apply, and that since the legions are posted elsewhere, they can't recruit in France. He was quite adamant.

This resulted in my mind cracking (again), and I've been re-imagining the argument over and over again. Its enough that the frustration of it makes me want to gun my motorcycle into the Grand Canyon, sort of like a really weak version of Evil Knievel. This happens often enough now that about 12 hours out of the day, I'm paralyzed with similar arguments.

All the fine doctors of various sorts are unable to even agree on what is happening, and have exhausted the various treatments that might fix it. It has been dubbed "intractable".

However, they say the military can brainwash people. I'm sure not all do, as many military service people are fine thinkers. But some say its at least possible, that the military can wipe your "self" clean, "tear it down", as they say, and build it back up.

So, NSG, from nations and militaries all over the world, I ask you:

Can military service save a dying mind?

Or is this like a retarded person thinking they can just show up at a University and suddenly be made normative?

For a certain kind of person it can "heal" a sick mind the way that amputation can heal gangrene. By convincing a person to only think in a certain way it can get them to shirk certain uncomfortable feelings and thoughts. That is rather the point of military training. To get you to give up on yourself and live for your "brothers."

But it's not really a healthy way to be for a human mind. That's why so many vets become drug addicts, alcoholics, and biker gang-members.

Some people come back from the military and are perfectly happy normal well adjusted people. Those people did not succumb to the brainwashing you mentioned.

Some of them come back and polish their shoes in the dark while muttering "my gun is my best friend." They were brainwashed. You don't want to be that guy.

Even if you've been to several doctors/psychologists and none so far has been able to help you - you're still better off going to several more than losing your last will to live in the military or, for that matter, getting yourself killed on a wilderness survival trip or whatever else is the plan du jour.

I still think I can survive that trip, if I keep it down to five days.

Sadly, each iteration of treatment winds up being just a rehash of previous attempts. I've applied to a number of experimental studies, with no luck yet.

Even the fairly accomplished psychiatrists feel the condition is "intractable and non-responsive to the present array of treatment protocols". Although there are several different models, the only thing they manage to agree on is that they've tried what is available to try. I'm apparently lucky that I don't have permanent ataxia from the regimens already attempted.

I was exploring it as a possibility, because I speculated the military could train me to not care as much about my personal existence, perhaps subordinate my very sense of self to something else. Its essentially trading one sort of death for another, but it would keep me physically alive.

Why would you want to end your life over such a silly argument. I mean, was it really important at all? The whole situation sounds idiotic.

Does overt cognition of the methods applied reduce their effectiveness if they're aimed at deeper emotive associations?

Yes it does.

For example, I might know that a particular aversion inducing process is intentional, but that won't prevent parts of my brain from almost autonomically forming the associations of stimuli, and developing an essentially involuntary response

The difference between training in the military and real life is that you know it's going to end. Once you know whatever unpleasantness your experiencing is finite it becomes very easy to rationalise it and use a decent sense of humour to not let if affect you. In my experience the breaking down process tended to involve a lot of shouting and throwing the boots I spent 3 hours polishing the night before out of a window, not exactly subtle psychological manipulation.

Still, you could be right. For it to be truly effective, at some point I would have to buy into it, and I may not be able to.

I never could and I don't know as many long words as you.

Does one learn (or become forcibly conditioned) to better endure the stupidity, through this?

That is to say, after enough times unpacking the car, does one develope the ability to not be bothered by it?

If that's what you're looking for, then take a job at the IRS. They're hiring. This time of year I get to have conversations like this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14624501&postcount=123)all day long.

dont your doctors have ANY recommendations of treatments that might help you?

Apparently, there is a surgical approach recently reclassified by the FDA that involves drilling small holes in my skull and using small conductive materials to deliver occasional jolts to the brain from a battery the patient carries.

It's use hasn't yet been evaluated for my particular condition, but it is reporting some small measure of reduction of some symptoms in various adjacent disorders in some patients.

Its not impossible that it could ameliorate my condition somewhat.

Some of them come back and polish their shoes in the dark while muttering "my gun is my best friend." They were brainwashed. You don't want to be that guy.

Couldn't agree more.

But then again, most people who are crazy from military service were unstable beforehand. Or not mentally strong enough to cope. It's all in how you deal with it. If you have an extremely dark sense of humor/sadistic streak, you'll do fine, as long as you can laugh at yourself and have a good comeback, and not be a shitbag. But then again, it's not basic training that rebuilds you or breaks you down, wasn't in a lot of people's cases, and I don't believe it broke anyone down. The real mental change comes from dealing with all of the bullshit, stupid details, etc., etc... And that doesn't break you down, but a lot of times you can learn to laugh at it and cope. Maybe not then, but afterwards.

Why would you want to end your life over such a silly argument. I mean, was it really important at all? The whole situation sounds idiotic.

My brain regards it as so important (and painful) that it accelerates respiration, heartbeat, etc.

That my brain can't cope with that sort of thing is precisely why I describe it as "dying" and "broken". I suppose it is idiotic, in the clinical sense, even.

I still think I can survive that trip, if I keep it down to five days.

Sadly, each iteration of treatment winds up being just a rehash of previous attempts. I've applied to a number of experimental studies, with no luck yet.

Even the fairly accomplished psychiatrists feel the condition is "intractable and non-responsive to the present array of treatment protocols". Although there are several different models, the only thing they manage to agree on is that they've tried what is available to try. I'm apparently lucky that I don't have permanent ataxia from the regimens already attempted.
This will probably sound really stupid and I totally am pulling this out of my ass, but since you do seem to think you could make your brain shut up by putting it through an extreme state of some sort - have you tried meditation? Like, actual Buddhist-monk-grade meditation? I've never even tried a new-agey "light" version so I absolutely don't know what I'm talking about. But if you feel there's hope in such things as survival trips or the military wouldn't it stand to reason that "extreme" meditation would work just as well?

Apparently, there is a surgical approach recently reclassified by the FDA that involves drilling small holes in my skull and using small conductive materials to deliver occasional jolts to the brain from a battery the patient carries.

It's use hasn't yet been evaluated for my particular condition, but it is reporting some small measure of reduction of some symptoms in various adjacent disorders in some patients.

Its not impossible that it could ameliorate my condition somewhat.

Cool, go for that.

You could show the battery to kids and point to the holes in your head and claim to be a cyborg. They'd believe you, kids are really gullible.

This will probably sound really stupid and I totally am pulling this out of my ass, but since you do seem to think you could make your brain shut up by putting it through an extreme state of some sort - have you tried meditation? Like, actual Buddhist-monk-grade meditation? I've never even tried a new-agey "light" version so I absolutely don't know what I'm talking about. But if you feel there's hope in such things as survival trips or the military wouldn't it stand to reason that "extreme" meditation would work just as well?

Or maybe just take time to go camping every so often. Not the trailer and power camping, I mean buy a rucksack and tent and go hike to a site, spend a night or two or three out there, and then hike back. It's amazing how that can refresh your system...

If that's what you're looking for, then take a job at the IRS. They're hiring. This time of year I get to have conversations like this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14624501&postcount=123)all day long.

Ouch, that sucks. I've had a similar one, but from the other end.

ME: I'm getting a small tax credit for my Law School tuition.

HIM: No, you're not. You can't get a tax credit. The tax credit for school expenses is only usable your 1st two years of your Bachelors, not law school. And you can only get a deduction, which is not the same as a credit.

ME: I know the difference, but its only the Hope Tax Credit that is only usable your first two years. I used the Lifetime Learning Credit, which is smaller, but usable for any qualifying expenses for secondary education, including Law School.

HIM: Well, you should go back to accounting school, then, because a deduction is different than a credit. You can only take it on the interest of your student loans.

ME: Well, there is that deduction, but there's also a credit, the Lifetime Learning Credit, different than the Hope Credit, that I can use in Law School.

HIM: Who told you that, the IRS? They're only right 2 out of 3 times.

ME: Well, no, I checked the form and instructions. The Lifetime isn't limited to your first two years, the Hope is. And its a credit, not a deduction.

HIM: Who are you trying to convince, you or me?

ME: (*brain cracks*, relives argument thousands of times)

Curiosity actually was a driving characteristic in my work in Physics. Its not the absence of those particular attributes that I mean when I describe my mind as "dying".

Its more the sudden, maladaptive discontinuity and pain that occur when faced with experiences like the one described in the OP.

As a veterans you will only get more of those in the service.
You have a degree in Physics and your considering military service?
The only service I can even Fathom being remotely interesting for you would be Warrant Officer in communications or a few other fields.

I think you just need to take a break from your field.
My advice take 6 months or a year off and work some manual labor type job.
You will come back with gusto to your physics job.

no

the military can shape up a flabby mind but it cannot fix a broken one.

This.

It can provide opportunities for those who have the intelligence and ambition to take them.

Otherwise, you're just a swabbie or grunt doing time.

I still think I can survive that trip, if I keep it down to five days.

Sadly, each iteration of treatment winds up being just a rehash of previous attempts. I've applied to a number of experimental studies, with no luck yet.

Even the fairly accomplished psychiatrists feel the condition is "intractable and non-responsive to the present array of treatment protocols". Although there are several different models, the only thing they manage to agree on is that they've tried what is available to try. I'm apparently lucky that I don't have permanent ataxia from the regimens already attempted.
ataxia is worse than mental instability.

-snip-

You need to start having less mind numbingly boring conversations with your friends.

Apparently, there is a surgical approach recently reclassified by the FDA that involves drilling small holes in my skull and using small conductive materials to deliver occasional jolts to the brain from a battery the patient carries.

It's use hasn't yet been evaluated for my particular condition, but it is reporting some small measure of reduction of some symptoms in various adjacent disorders in some patients.

Its not impossible that it could ameliorate my condition somewhat.
that seems rather extreme. i would want to be the first one to try it.

YIPES I MEANT WOULDN"T!

This will probably sound really stupid and I totally am pulling this out of my ass, but since you do seem to think you could make your brain shut up by putting it through an extreme state of some sort - have you tried meditation? Like, actual Buddhist-monk-grade meditation? I've never even tried a new-agey "light" version so I absolutely don't know what I'm talking about. But if you feel there's hope in such things as survival trips or the military wouldn't it stand to reason that "extreme" meditation would work just as well?

Actually, this isn't a stupid suggestion, its come to be fairly well regarded even in the licensed mental health community. For many, moving away from what is sometimes called the "monkey mind" (less a reference to lower primates than to the way a monkey jumps about) does provide some relief.

I've tried meditation, including of the sort sometimes associated with Buddhism. I was never able to attain the level of meditative state. In fact, the idea of meditation triggers one of my arguments. I've also tried the meditative practices of a few other disciplines.

I don't think its a stupid idea. A monk I met once when I lived in Japan explained to me that the "great truths" can't really be put into words, and are generally achieved through wordless experiences. He politely explained that's why he couldn't tell me any "great lessons".

Sadly, even the premise of meditation sets off an argument in my head.

that seems rather extreme. i would want to be the first one to try it.

You would want to try it?

And I thought you quite unadventurous following my post about non-mainstream nightclubs in the thread about orgasmic childbirth.

I think part of the problem was I couldn't commit to their principle belief, that humans were genetically engineered by space aliens who left clues about themselves in the bible.


wuss

Jhahanam with a Goatee take a vacation, or a temporary switch in career fields.
Decompress your mind. Do not get crazy surgery on your brain.

As a veterans you will only get more of those in the service.
You have a degree in Physics and your considering military service?
The only service I can even Fathom being remotely interesting for you would be Warrant Officer in communications or a few other fields.

I think you just need to take a break from your field.
My advice take 6 months or a year off and work some manual labor type job.
You will come back with gusto to your physics job.

My bachelors degree is in accounting, I was invited to work as a research assistant to a physicist after I took a class from one of his colleagues who introduced us.

I worked for him for about a year, but only produced a single paper before I realized I didn't have the Gift. So, then I went to Law School and now I only occasionally discuss physics with friends still over in the lab.

I've tried several fields. To each, I must bring my mind, and so the problem comes with me. I was hoping the military could recondition my mind via whatever methodology makes a fellow willing to rush into cannon fire (or whatever dangerous things soldiers are conditioned to be able to do).

Actually, this isn't a stupid suggestion, its come to be fairly well regarded even in the licensed mental health community. For many, moving away from what is sometimes called the "monkey mind" (less a reference to lower primates than to the way a monkey jumps about) does provide some relief.

I've tried meditation, including of the sort sometimes associated with Buddhism. I was never able to attain the level of meditative state. In fact, the idea of meditation triggers one of my arguments. I've also tried the meditative practices of a few other disciplines.

I don't think its a stupid idea. A monk I met once when I lived in Japan explained to me that the "great truths" can't really be put into words, and are generally achieved through wordless experiences. He politely explained that's why he couldn't tell me any "great lessons".

Sadly, even the premise of meditation sets off an argument in my head.
Ah crap. Too bad. Though I can certainly see the last bit (even though my own in-my-head-arguments would be much less obsessive, thankfully). :/

(or whatever dangerous things soldiers are conditioned to be able to do).

mostly avoid real work.

(or whatever dangerous things soldiers are conditioned to be able to do).

gay sex? It's not that dangerous these days ya know.

mostly avoid real work.

We called it shamming.

that seems rather extreme. i would want to be the first one to try it.

It's apparently had some pretty good results dealing with things like depression and addiction. Kickstarting the 'right' connections seems a little 'brutal', as a means to conditioning brains, but it isn't unreasonable.

We called it shamming.

I beg to differ, we call it dossing about.

My bachelors degree is in accounting, I was invited to work as a research assistant to a physicist after I took a class from one of his colleagues who introduced us.

I worked for him for about a year, but only produced a single paper before I realized I didn't have the Gift. So, then I went to Law School and now I only occasionally discuss physics with friends still over in the lab.

I've tried several fields. To each, I must bring my mind, and so the problem comes with me. I was hoping the military could recondition my mind via whatever methodology makes a fellow willing to rush into cannon fire (or whatever dangerous things soldiers are conditioned to be able to do).

To be honest sounds like you need a break from Academia. Just decompress go work for a semester or two and not worry about how much the job pays.

You need to start having less mind numbingly boring conversations with your friends.

Its not just friends, its everyone around me.

Software store lady: You should buy this $10 hint book along with that game. You get a 5% discount if you do.

Me: I don't like using the book, so its not worth it. Thanks anyway, though.

SSL: Sir, you don't understand. It will save you money. The discount is on both the book and the $50 game if you get the book.

Me: Yes, but the combined discount from both is still only $3.

SSL: $3 is better than nothing sir! Do the math! If you saved that much every day for a year, do you know how much that would be?

Me: Over a thousand dollars, if it were a real savings. But since the $3 doesn't offset the $10 for the book (she interrupts: "But sir, $3 is better than nothing and it adds up!)

Me: But its not better than nothing because I'm still losing out by $7. Buying a $10 book that I don't want (she interrupts: "Sir, think! You're getting a discount, so its not $10.)

Me: Right, its 7$, for a book I don't want. So I'm not really saving $3, I'm losing $7.

SSL: Well, sir, if you like wasting money, okay...(smiles sweetly).

Me: (*Brain cracks*)

-snip-

I lol'd. Looks like you just need to leave your area, it's full of very successful trolls.

Its not just friends, its everyone around me.

Software store lady: You should buy this $10 hint book along with that game. You get a 5% discount if you do.

Me: I don't like using the book, so its not worth it. Thanks anyway, though.

SSL: Sir, you don't understand. It will save you money. The discount is on both the book and the $50 game if you get the book.

Me: Yes, but the combined discount from both is still only $3.

SSL: $3 is better than nothing sir! Do the math! If you saved that much every day for a year, do you know how much that would be?

Me: Over a thousand dollars, if it were a real savings. But since the $3 doesn't offset the $10 for the book (she interrupts: "But sir, $3 is better than nothing and it adds up!)

Me: But its not better than nothing because I'm still losing out by $7. Buying a $10 book that I don't want (she interrupts: "Sir, think! You're getting a discount, so its not $10.)

Me: Right, its 7$, for a book I don't want. So I'm not really saving $3, I'm losing $7.

SSL: Well, sir, if you like wasting money, okay...(smiles sweetly).

Me: (*Brain cracks*)

yeah, that sounds like a pretty common occurance in my life. The magazine people at best buy and whatever other stores have those offers (FYE I think...?) learned to hate me.

yeah, that sounds like a pretty common occurance in my life. The magazine people at best buy and whatever other stores have those offers (FYE I think...?) learned to hate me.

It's not unusual. That kind of link-selling is a major part of profitability... the guidebook, the hands-free set, the carrycase... whatever has the minimal product or service cost, but the best 'benefit' return. You want fries with that?

It's remarkably successful. On most people.

(Because, stereotypically, we're now trained as Weapons of Mass Consumption).

You would want to try it?

And I thought you quite unadventurous following my post about non-mainstream nightclubs in the thread about orgasmic childbirth.
what a terrible freudian slip THAT was.

i meant wouldnt!

Its not just friends, its everyone around me.

Software store lady: You should buy this $10 hint book along with that game. You get a 5% discount if you do.

Me: I don't like using the book, so its not worth it. Thanks anyway, though.

SSL: Sir, you don't understand. It will save you money. The discount is on both the book and the $50 game if you get the book.

Me: Yes, but the combined discount from both is still only $3.

SSL: $3 is better than nothing sir! Do the math! If you saved that much every day for a year, do you know how much that would be?

Me: Over a thousand dollars, if it were a real savings. But since the $3 doesn't offset the $10 for the book (she interrupts: "But sir, $3 is better than nothing and it adds up!)

Me: But its not better than nothing because I'm still losing out by $7. Buying a $10 book that I don't want (she interrupts: "Sir, think! You're getting a discount, so its not $10.)

Me: Right, its 7$, for a book I don't want. So I'm not really saving $3, I'm losing $7.

SSL: Well, sir, if you like wasting money, okay...(smiles sweetly).

Me: (*Brain cracks*)
You don't happen to live in Oklahoma? Because that sounds awfully like the stuff that happens to Smunkee all the time (and that I never believe).

Would it help if you just staid home or tried not talking to people? <<

wuss

You know, you're going to have to read my eugoogoly when my death is reported in the Rebl Yell.

Ah crap. Too bad. Though I can certainly see the last bit (even though my own in-my-head-arguments would be much less obsessive, thankfully). :/

Wasn't a bad suggestion, though. There are many that it works for.

We called it shamming.

My kids called it skating.

I lol'd. Looks like you just need to leave your area, it's full of very successful trolls.

I think that "area" is earth. They're everywhere, including my head now.

what a terrible freudian slip THAT was.

i meant wouldnt!

I'm glad you corrected that, it seemed kind of odd in context.

Although I suppose that there are some that would like to be the first to try it.

You don't happen to live in Oklahoma? Because that sounds awfully like the stuff that happens to Smunkee all the time (and that I never believe).

Would it help if you just staid home or tried not talking to people? <<

It happens everywhere. I still don't understand the whole "you save money by buying something you don't need or want and you lose money if you don't buy it" mindset.

Don't explain it to me, I don't want to understand how saving $3.00 on a $60.00 purchase is better than only spending $50.00 in the first place.

I like making peoples brain crack. it makes me laugh. I have those arguments all the time and win every one. my favorite is when people tell me they like math because it is the only thing they can prove is real. I say, no, math is wrong. no matter what number you have it always is equal to zero. after 3 days of argument I finally show them THIS (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/All_numbers_are_equal_to_zero) website, and their life explodes in their face. im so mean...

It happens everywhere. I still don't understand the whole "you save money by buying something you don't need or want and you lose money if you don't buy it" mindset.

Don't explain it to me, I don't want to understand how saving $3.00 on a $60.00 purchase is better than only spending $50.00 in the first place.

Its the same reasoning that explains why the thing you're being offered for $19.95 is a "$300 value" evidently because they arbitrarily decided it is, even though it would likely never sell at $300, has never sold at $300, and has several competitors who sell comparable products for $20.

I like making peoples brain crack. it makes me laugh. I have those arguments all the time and win every one.
my favorite is when people tell me they like math because it is the only thing they can prove is real. I say, no, math is wrong. no matter what number you have it always is equal to zero. after 3 days of argument I finally show them THIS (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/All_numbers_are_equal_to_zero) website, and their life explodes in their face. im so mean...

The premise of whether math is "real", much less the only thing real, is actually fairly interesting even beyond the satirical page you link to. Nunez and Lakoff have assessed the premise from a background of cognitive science that explores the idea more genuinely.

Assertions backed by a tongue in cheek website don't really constitute "winning" an argument, and if showing that your position was really just a humorous send up is all it takes to explode their lives, they didn't really look very closely at your link.

Its the same reasoning that explains why the thing you're being offered for $19.95 is a "$300 value" evidently because they arbitrarily decided it is, even though it would likely never sell at $300, has never sold at $300, and has several competitors who sell comparable products for $20.

or how so many people are caught by the whole "IT'S 19.99, LESS THAN $20.00!!!!!!11!!!1!!!" scam.

I served in the military and It did wonders for me. :)

I served in the military and It did wonders for me. :)

So, the rumors of pie-snipers are true...

I'm glad you corrected that, it seemed kind of odd in context.

Although I suppose that there are some that would like to be the first to try it.
if it should turn out that it has a good rate of success on other people with your problem, it might be a good last resort.

but i dont see any sense in being a guinea pig.

I served in the military and It did wonders for me. :)

Apparently LG went in perfectly normal......

they didn't really look very closely at your link.
nope, Im truly, EVIL.
but yes, the whole concept of it I find very interesting, about how math still has flaws that are continually ignored and have people making new BS laws about math, with no math to back it up.
and almost every flaw comes from the number zero, which is why some say it should not be a number at all. think about it, why should we have a number that represents a mathematical entity that does not exist? math is so confusing....

if it should turn out that it has a good rate of success on other people with your problem, it might be a good last resort.

but i dont see any sense in being a guinea pig.

I believe its recently been reclassed and is no longer "experimental" in terms of its risks, although naturally data can only be examined from within the timeline available.

Anything that would stop the pain would be worth trying, at this point. Even a medication that I knew would kill me within a year would be fine, so long as that year was with a quieted mind.

I believe its recently been reclassed and is no longer "experimental" in terms of its risks, although naturally data can only be examined from within the timeline available.

Anything that would stop the pain would be worth trying, at this point. Even a medication that I knew would kill me within a year would be fine, so long as that year was with a quieted mind.

That kind of scares me, it sounds like what they did in Terminal Man. And it didn't work properly and he went on a killing spree. I realize that's not really the case, but it doesn't sound like a good treatment to the problem. Have you found something that you can obsess over, something to defragment your brain so to speak, and try that semi-regularly?

nope, Im truly, EVIL.

How does your moral characterization impact their not diligently looking at the link long enough to realize its satirical and not even intended as mathematically rigorous?


but yes, the whole concept of it I find very interesting, about how math still has flaws that are continually ignored and have people making new BS laws about math, with no math to back it up.

Any field of human research will have flaws, but there are fields within mathematics that are internally consistent, and generally recognize (rather than ignore) the incompleteness inherent in certain axiom sets (Goeddel, etc).

If you feel a particular premise in mathematics lacks rigor, you're free to challenge it, but the use of comedy websites that make very clear the jocular nature of their claims is hardly illustrative.


and almost every flaw comes from the number zero, which is why some say it should not be a number at all. think about it, why should we have a number that represents a mathematical entity that does not exist? math is so confusing....

Since mathematics is a system of definitions and resulting predicates, zero as a number can "exist" merely by presenting a definition for it and applying it. Its no more or less than is done with any other "entity" in mathematics.

Models that include 0 as a number provide substantial problem solving power in several fields, including the one that allows you to post your claims and have them transmitted to me.

Unless you're deliberately being silly, in which case, indeed, let us do away with zero, and present a number line with a time cube!

That kind of scares me, it sounds like what they did in Terminal Man. And it didn't work properly and he went on a killing spree.

There was a news report a few years ago about a woman who thought God was talking to her through her radio, and ended up chopping off her 2-year-old daughter's arms, with a breadknife.

You can come up with crazy stories, without having to resort to science fiction, and connect them to just about anything.

The idea of direct electrical stimulation is actually remarkably similar to the most common form of behavioural modification known to humanity, throughout history - algetic conditioning. You'll probably be most familiar with it under the name 'spanking'. You create a behaviourally linked pain signal in the brain, which teaches it to engage a key process-route rather than a divergent alternate.

Isn't spanking illegal now, though? ::rolls eyes::

And hey, at least I'm pulling my source from a book...

Isn't spanking illegal now, though? ::rolls eyes::

I hope not. If it is, I'm in a shitload of trouble.:eek:

Isn't spanking illegal now, though?

It is? Fuck, there goes my love life.

So, the rumors of pie-snipers are true...

By the time you find out, it'll be too late. :)

It is? Fuck, there goes my love life.

Only as a means of behavior modification punishment. Not "My girlfriend is sitting here in a schoolgirl outfit with the handcuffs on and I have this nice little ruler in my hand." Then it's perfectly legal, as it is (hopefully) consensual. Or at least she won't press charges (hopefully).

Isn't spanking illegal now, though? ::rolls eyes::


...which has what to do with the efficacy of the technique?


And hey, at least I'm pulling my source from a book...

A fucking Michael Crichton book!

I hope not. If it is, I'm in a shitload of trouble.:eek:

You are indeed, young lady.

And so, you must be punished...

A fucking Michael Crichton book!

still better than saying I saw it in a movie.

You are indeed, young lady.

And so, you must be punished...

Should I lean against your knees, bum up, to recieve Grave_n_Idle sacred retribution?

still better than saying I saw it in a movie.

They made a movie of the book.

Regardless - the fiction of Michael Crichton is supposed to be evidence of what, exactly? The inadvisability of letting dinosaurs fuck frogs?

They made a movie of the book.

Regardless - the fiction of Michael Crichton is supposed to be evidence of what, exactly? The inadvisability of letting dinosaurs fuck frogs?

Just let me have my false sense of superiority here over the masses of people who have never read a book they weren't told to. And I didn't know they made a movie. And, to his credit, he does use more hard science than most sci-fi writers do. It was only a statement meant to point out that this, in no way shape or form, sounds like a safe procedure...

Should I lean against your knees, bum up, to recieve Grave_n_Idle sacred retribution?

Ain't that an image...

You seem truly penitent for your sins, so I'll let you count off the strikes, and when you think you've been duly chastised, you can thank me for restoring your purity. :)

Ain't that an image...

You seem truly penitent for your sins, so I'll let you count off the strikes, and when you think you've been duly chastised, you can thank me for restoring your purity. :)

Leather cat o' nines then? 10 is the charm, Father Idle.:wink:

I believe its recently been reclassed and is no longer "experimental" in terms of its risks, although naturally data can only be examined from within the timeline available.

Anything that would stop the pain would be worth trying, at this point. Even a medication that I knew would kill me within a year would be fine, so long as that year was with a quieted mind.
do it when your wife says its time to.

Just let me have my false sense of superiority here over the masses of people who have never read a book they weren't told to. And I didn't know they made a movie. And, to his credit, he does use more hard science than most sci-fi writers do. It was only a statement meant to point out that this, in no way shape or form, sounds like a safe procedure...

An Harry Harrison suggested that there were giant siphonoptera predating the dinosaurs which, should we ever perfect time-travel, would attempt to assume humans as new hosts. Imagine the damage a flea the size of a cat would do.

There's nothing wrong with speculative fiction. But - just because it's in a book, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be good science. I certainly don't think we should, for example, base policy on the latest offerings of Orson Scott Card.

Asimov, maybe. But he's a special case. Where he treads, science follows.

An Harry Harrison suggested that there were giant siphonoptera predating the dinosaurs which, should we ever perfect time-travel, would attempt to assume humans as new hosts. Imagine the damage a flea the size of a cat would do.

There's nothing wrong with speculative fiction. But - just because it's in a book, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be good science. I certainly don't think we should, for example, base policy on the latest offerings of Orson Scott Card.

Asimov, maybe. But he's a special case. Where he treads, science follows.

Maybe Niven...

do it when your wife says its time to.

No more wife. She grew understandably very tired of my condition. She was very honest in admitting that its unfair that mental illness isn't always given the same sympathy as other kinds of illness, but she couldn't take it anymore.

I can't really blame her. I'm on my own now.

Wow, I leave to get tacos, and this thread goes from depressing to beautiful.

Nanatsu getting spanked....where all threads should lead!

No more wife. She grew understandably very tired of my condition. She was very honest in admitting that its unfair that mental illness isn't always given the same sympathy as other kinds of illness, but she couldn't take it anymore.

I can't really blame her. I'm on my own now.
thats a shame. do you have a family member who could fill the same role as decision maker?

Wow, I leave to get tacos, and this thread goes from depressing to beautiful.

Nanatsu getting spanked....where all threads should lead!

Oh yes, Father Idle, yes!!!:fluffle:

Wow, I leave to get tacos, and this thread goes from depressing to beautiful.

Nanatsu getting spanked....where all threads should lead!

She was naughty. What could I do?

thats a shame. do you have a family member who could fill the same role as decision maker?

A relative of mine is a physician. His opinion was "I'd rather you be dead than be like you are."

My remaining family are a fractured mess of grotesquely unhappy people, every marriage ending in divorce, every career followed by a miserable retirement. I went and spent some time with my family right after my wife asked me to leave...it made me suicidal to be around them.

Its likely my lousy insurance wouldn't cover it anyway, but as for deciding when to do it...I suppose the time will be when no other feasible option remains.

Oh yes, Father Idle, yes!!!:fluffle:

Ah, Nanatsu... if girls like you liked men in uniform, I'd enlist just for that...

A relative of mine is a physician. His opinion was "I'd rather you be dead than be like you are."

My remaining family are a fractured mess of grotesquely unhappy people, every marriage ending in divorce, every career followed by a miserable retirement. I went and spent some time with my family right after my wife asked me to leave...it made me suicidal to be around them.

Its likely my lousy insurance wouldn't cover it anyway, but as for deciding when to do it...I suppose the time will be when no other feasible option remains.
what you need is someone who knows you and wants what is best for you to be the one to tell you when its time to do it, if ever. you arent in a good position to make the decision yourself. your desperation for an improvement can lead you to choose a treatment that does more harm than good.

Ah, Nanatsu... if girls like you liked men in uniform, I'd enlist just for that...

I love men in uniform, or rather, I like one man in uniform. The cat eared girl must demurely go. The master of the house calls.

I love men in uniform, or rather, I like one man in uniform. The cat eared girl must demurely go. The master of the house calls.

Bomchicawowoowwwww!

what you need is someone who knows you and wants what is best for you to be the one to tell you when its time to do it, if ever. you arent in a good position to make the decision yourself. your desperation for an improvement can lead you to choose a treatment that does more harm than good.

According to the experts, I'm at a stage where "tolerance of side effects must be considered in context of the degenerative trend in the condition".

My brain is inexorably slaughtering itself. Its hard for any treatment to do more harm than is already being done.

Still, you're right that there is a balance. For example, something that would cure my condition but give me pancreatic cancer would not be worth it.

According to the experts, I'm at a stage where "tolerance of side effects must be considered in context of the degenerative trend in the condition".

My brain is inexorably slaughtering itself. Its hard for any treatment to do more harm than is already being done.

Still, you're right that there is a balance. For example, something that would cure my condition but give me pancreatic cancer would not be worth it.
run it past your doctor relative and see what he thinks. he has the advantage of being able to understand any papers that have been written about it.

According to the experts, I'm at a stage where "tolerance of side effects must be considered in context of the degenerative trend in the condition".

My brain is inexorably slaughtering itself. Its hard for any treatment to do more harm than is already being done.

Still, you're right that there is a balance. For example, something that would cure my condition but give me pancreatic cancer would not be worth it.

Unless they could do something to treat the cancer more easily than the other condition...

run it past your doctor relative and see what he thinks. he has the advantage of being able to understand any papers that have been written about it.

He's the one that told me about the treatment. Thinks I should go for it, but also said "I'd rather you be dead than be what you are."

Unless they could do something to treat the cancer more easily than the other condition...

Yes, good point.

What a world that would be, where cancer is an intermediary condition, a stepping stone to being cured.

"Sorry, we can't cure your illness."

"But you can change into cancer, which is curable!"

"Yes, but you don't have the referral and your insurance company requires one."

"We're covered for that, I looked!"

"Sorry, you'll need to talk to your GP"

"GIVE ME CANCER!"

He's the one that told me about the treatment. Thinks I should go for it, but also said "I'd rather you be dead than be what you are."
assuming that he likes you, that may be a fair assessment of your situation. one that a disinterested person cant possibly make.

He's the one that told me about the treatment. Thinks I should go for it, but also said "I'd rather you be dead than be what you are."

Get a new doctor.

Get a new doctor.

He's not my doctor, as was explained. Ashmoria had asked about my relatives, one of which is a retired doctor (not my doctor). She suggested a family member might be good to help with the decision as to whether to try the surgical treatment.

I've been through many doctors, teams of doctors, various specialists, various sorts.

It is? Fuck, there goes my love life.

Nah, not until they outlaw flogging and choking too. ;)

He's not my doctor, as was explained. Ashmoria had asked about my relatives, one of which is a retired doctor (not my doctor). She suggested a family member might be good to help with the decision as to whether to try the surgical treatment.

I've been through many doctors, teams of doctors, various specialists, various sorts.

Get new relatives ?

As far as the surgical treatment goes, I've actually heard really good things about it.

Beyond that, though, it seems like a lot of your stress is caused by dealing with other people. Would you do better if you made more of a hermit of yourself? It's obviously not an ideal solution, but it might be a stopgap...

Get new relatives ?

So more people can suffer from watching my brain chew itself up?

There are already enough folks that have been impacted by this.

Also, Poliwanacraca refuses to be my Kentucky cousin.

As far as the surgical treatment goes, I've actually heard really good things about it.

Beyond that, though, it seems like a lot of your stress is caused by dealing with other people. Would you do better if you made more of a hermit of yourself? It's obviously not an ideal solution, but it might be a stopgap...

I'd still have to live alone every day knowing I wasn't strong enough to deal with living in society. I also don't have the resources or skills for extended living by myself.

I'd have to make money, and that requires interaction with the economy, and thus people.

So more people can suffer from watching my brain chew itself up?

There are already enough folks that have been impacted by this.

Also, Poliwanacraca refuses to be my Kentucky cousin.

To be honest you seem to hate people.
Find a job where you don't have to deal with people often.
Then don't share your view points with anyone.
This should solve all your problems

I'd still have to live alone every day knowing I wasn't strong enough to deal with living in society. I also don't have the resources or skills for extended living by myself.

I'd have to make money, and that requires interaction with the economy, and thus people.

Sure, but there are ways to work that involve very minimal human interaction. One of my friends, for example, does transcription - he gets emailed sound files, he types them up, he sends his transcripts back, he gets sent a paycheck. It doesn't pay well but it's enough to cover his basic needs, and he never has to leave the house or interact with anyone directly. If worst came to worst, you might be able to do something like that and only talk to people who are smart enough to have non-brain-breaking conversations, at least as a temporary solution until you find a long-term coping mechanism.

To be honest you seem to hate people.

That I am mindful of the pain my condition causes to those around me somehow indicates hate for people? That I am disproportionately effected by by frustration in interpersonal interactions indicates hate for people?

I actually quite enjoy time with most people. It is a very narrow range of interaction that I am unable to cope with, but constant anxiety and cogitation on such instances has paralyzed me. That doesn't really result from or result in hatred for people.


Find a job where you don't have to deal with people often.
Then don't share your view points with anyone.
This should solve all your problems

A job is only a part of life, and even rare interaction with people results in some non-zero potential for these episodes. Thus, the associated anxiety is still perpetually present.

The solution you propose is impractical and doesn't reflect the nature of the problem.

Sure, but there are ways to work that involve very minimal human interaction. One of my friends, for example, does transcription - he gets emailed sound files, he types them up, he sends his transcripts back, he gets sent a paycheck. It doesn't pay well but it's enough to cover his basic needs, and he never has to leave the house or interact with anyone directly. If worst came to worst, you might be able to do something like that and only talk to people who are smart enough to have non-brain-breaking conversations, at least as a temporary solution until you find a long-term coping mechanism.

The mere possibility that someone would complain, in some manifestly unreasonable way, about the quality of the transcripts, would cause an argument to manifest and recur in my head. Even the possibility of arguments with clerks, power company agents, etc, causes me to imagine arguments that haven't even happened, but are conceivably possible.

Unless it were possible to reduce even potential for difficulty with such arguments to zero, isolation is insufficient to prevent the anxiety.

Finding any job at all right now is extremely difficult, much less one with the fairly tight constraints of minimal interaction.

I once considered trying work in computers that would help achieve the insulation you suggest, but I lack any particular brilliance with technology.

Heh, otherwise, I'd hack your web cam and ogle you.

I once considered trying work in computers that would help achieve the insulation you suggest, but I lack any particular brilliance with technology.

Heh, otherwise, I'd hack your web cam and ogle you.

dude, if you want...I got pictures

So more people can suffer from watching my brain chew itself up?

There are already enough folks that have been impacted by this.

Also, Poliwanacraca refuses to be my Kentucky cousin.

Speaking as someone with mental disorders of her own, don't go down the "I shouldn't make people put up with me" path. It's an easy mindset to fall into, but it's just wrong. If people choose to be around you, respect that choice, and don't feel guilty just because being around you isn't always pleasant.

And I don't know what a "Kentucky cousin" is, but I'm sure Neo Art would happily volunteer for that job. He might spell it "Kinturkie cuzun," but still. :tongue:

Speaking as someone with mental disorders of her own, don't go down the "I shouldn't make people put up with me" path. It's an easy mindset to fall into, but it's just wrong. If people choose to be around you, respect that choice, and don't feel guilty just because being around you isn't always pleasant.

And I don't know what a "Kentucky cousin" is, but I'm sure Neo Art would happily volunteer for that job. He might spell it "Kinturkie cuzun," but still. :tongue:

Great, I come on to you, you refer me to Neo Art.

Same thing happened with Katganistan and my own ass...

The mere possibility that someone would complain, in some manifestly unreasonable way, about the quality of the transcripts, would cause an argument to manifest and recur in my head. Even the possibility of arguments with clerks, power company agents, etc, causes me to imagine arguments that haven't even happened, but are conceivably possible.

Unless it were possible to reduce even potential for difficulty with such arguments to zero, isolation is insufficient to prevent the anxiety.

Finding any job at all right now is extremely difficult, much less one with the fairly tight constraints of minimal interaction.

I once considered trying work in computers that would help achieve the insulation you suggest, but I lack any particular brilliance with technology.

Heh, otherwise, I'd hack your web cam and ogle you.

I don't have a webcam anyway. :p

For what it's worth, I dealt with really severe, crippling anxiety for a while. For a couple of years, I basically couldn't be around people because I was just too terrified all the time. Even things as simple as my own birthday dinner with my parents and grandparents made me lock myself in my room and cry. Very different reason, of course, but the end result wasn't so different. I say this because now, a few years later, I'm basically a normal (well, for certain definitions of "normal"...) functioning person. I'm still a little more nervous than the average person, and there are still occasional moments when I panic, but by and large I get by. There wasn't any miracle treatment for me - I found a drug that helped a little bit, I found therapy that helped a little bit, and I worked and I waited and I let time pass, and eventually things got easier. Those couple of years were hellish, but I'm glad I stuck them out, because life is much nicer on the other side. I think you can get there too.

Great, I come on to you, you refer me to Neo Art.

Same thing happened with Katganistan and my own ass...

Not to insult your ass in any way, but NA is at least a step up, no? :p

I don't have a webcam anyway. :p

For what it's worth, I dealt with really severe, crippling anxiety for a while. For a couple of years, I basically couldn't be around people because I was just too terrified all the time. Even things as simple as my own birthday dinner with my parents and grandparents made me lock myself in my room and cry. Very different reason, of course, but the end result wasn't so different. I say this because now, a few years later, I'm basically a normal (well, for certain definitions of "normal"...) functioning person. I'm still a little more nervous than the average person, and there are still occasional moments when I panic, but by and large I get by. There wasn't any miracle treatment for me - I found a drug that helped a little bit, I found therapy that helped a little bit, and I worked and I waited and I let time pass, and eventually things got easier. Those couple of years were hellish, but I'm glad I stuck them out, because life is much nicer on the other side. I think you can get there too.

I'm glad for you, you deserve to have your determination rewarded.

In my case, the condition is degenerative, and has become more acute over the last five years. Some work in neuroplasticity indicates that in many ways, the effect is self-perpetuating.

I have to head back to my new, shitty room in the slums of Vegas. Catch you later, Poli.

Not to insult your ass in any way, but NA is at least a step up, no? :p

You tell me.

You tell me.

I haven't encountered your ass. It could be spectacular for all I know. ;)

The question is, what would make him/her kill more efficiently?

In your experience (or observations), can military training and service restructure a person's mind to be more viable to survive?

Backstory: The other day, I mentioned something about the French Foreign Legion, jokingly suggesting I was going to fly to France to apply.

So this fellow says "The French Foreign Legion services in Africa. You'd have to go there to join."

I tried to explain that although the FFL services in Africa (and elsewhere), their recruiting is done in France at a number of offices, with the main induction and training center in Aubagne. This is by French Law.

He claimed that because its the "Foreign" legion, that French law wouldn't apply, and that since the legions are posted elsewhere, they can't recruit in France. He was quite adamant.

This resulted in my mind cracking (again), and I've been re-imagining the argument over and over again. Its enough that the frustration of it makes me want to gun my motorcycle into the Grand Canyon, sort of like a really weak version of Evil Knievel. This happens often enough now that about 12 hours out of the day, I'm paralyzed with similar arguments.

All the fine doctors of various sorts are unable to even agree on what is happening, and have exhausted the various treatments that might fix it. It has been dubbed "intractable".

However, they say the military can brainwash people. I'm sure not all do, as many military service people are fine thinkers. But some say its at least possible, that the military can wipe your "self" clean, "tear it down", as they say, and build it back up.

So, NSG, from nations and militaries all over the world, I ask you:

Can military service save a dying mind?

Or is this like a retarded person thinking they can just show up at a University and suddenly be made normative?

First off guy B is a moron. The French Foreign Legion is a branch ot the French Army that is made of people from other countries.

Second off, belonging to something bigger than yourself can make some persons better.

to the oq: no. but playing creatively with computers and the internet, using them as tools of art and engineering and creative self expression can and does.

I really do not understand what this thread is about. The OP had a debate over where people get recruited for the French Foreign Legion. Other than that I am not sure what the point is. Dying minds? These are usually possessed by the infirm who are not allowed to serve in the military. I am just confused.

I also hope that I can get my life together by age 35 so I can join the military. As it is though I am too fat and have too much debt to join.