NationStates Jolt Archive

A quiz for all of you.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualites/2009/03/19/01001-20090319ARTFIG00357-confidentiel-barack-obama-a-ecrit-a-jacques-chirac-.php

So many problems could be avoided by Googling...

Not that many people really care....

Not that many people really care....

According to the French, Obama has no idea. He wrote a letter to Chirac as though Chirac were still President.

I know I know!!!

I am smarter then Obama!!!*repeat 3 times*
I am so smart I am so smart

I picked Napoleon.

I am so smart! S-M-R-T!

According to the French, Obama has no idea. He wrote a letter to Chirac as though Chirac were still President.

Why would you post an article in French? Its kind of annoying on an English forum.

The French Presidents are merely husks, empty vessels that serve as successive avatars for the undying Emperor Napoleon. *nod*

A quiz for all of you.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualites/2009/03/19/01001-20090319ARTFIG00357-confidentiel-barack-obama-a-ecrit-a-jacques-chirac-.php

So many problems could be avoided by Googling...
wihtout seeing the letter that was sent we cant judge whether it was the president who was stupid or the reporter who misunderstood.

did he send a letter to the actual current president of france also?

Because I am the super bad like that here's a translation of the relevant piece into English. The question is, did he intentionally write Jacques Chirac or is he truly dumber than George Dubya and Hillary (neither of whom have ever mistaken a foreign leader in writing. These things called proofreaders)?


Barack Obama Wrote to Jacques Chirac

The American President just adress a very sympathique letter to Jacques Chirac, according to the expression of this last thing. "I am certain that we can, through these 4 years come to collaborate together in a spirit of peace and friendship in order to construct a more solid world," wrote the successor of George W. Bush to the predecessor of Nicolas Sarkozy [ED. The current president of France]. In invoking the word "peace," Obama gives an implicite homage to the former French President who was opposed to the war in Iraq, An American intervention against which the future American President was opposed to as senator at the time of the vote in Congress.

Jerry Lewis.

Jerry Lewis.

You're thinking of the King of France. France has both a king and a president. Sometimes an emperor shows his face.

Because I am the super bad like that here's a translation of the relevant piece into English. The question is, did he intentionally write Jacques Chirac or is he truly dumber than George Dubya and Hillary (neither of whom have ever mistaken a foreign leader in writing. These things called proofreaders)?
my french isnt good enough to catch subtleties.

are you saying that the reporter didnt imply that obama sent a letter to the wrong man?

Ahhh who pays attention to France. I got it wrong too. oops.

my french isnt good enough to catch subtleties.

are you saying that the reporter didnt imply that obama sent a letter to the wrong man?

I'm saying that I haven't seen the letter, don't trust the socialist media to begin with and that the article doesn't really say who the letter was intended for.

However, with that in mind I'm still inclined to say that Mr. Obama needs Mr. Bush's village idiot card since Sarko or the Prime Minister would have been the only logical recipients for the letter in questions.

I'm saying that I haven't seen the letter, don't trust the socialist media to begin with and that the article doesn't really say who the letter was intended for.

However, with that in mind I'm still inclined to say that Mr. Obama needs Mr. Bush's village idiot card since Sarko or the Prime Minister would have been the only logical recipients for the letter in questions.
that depends on whether or not he sent them letters.

if this is the only letter he sent someone needs to be fired.

If Obama did this mistakenly... why does nobody care? You all would have pounced on this if Bush did it.

Sorry to put a halt on everyone's excitement; turns out that Obama was replying to a letter from Chirac asking for support for the goals of the Jacques Chirac Foundation (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/03/23/obama-writes-letter-to-chirac-blogosphere-goes-crazy/).

Seems that some people are jumping the gun a bit here.

However, with that in mind I'm still inclined to say that Mr. Obama needs Mr. Bush's village idiot card since Sarko or the Prime Minister would have been the only logical recipients for the letter in questions.

Or the head of an organisation that promotes "access to water and medicines in west Africa, combating deforestation in the Congo Basin, and trying to save dying languages in Polynesia".

I am smarter then Obama!!!
That only means you're at least an imbecile.

Sorry to put a halt on everyone's excitement; turns out that Obama was replying to a letter from Chirac asking for support for the goals of the Jacques Chirac Foundation (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/03/23/obama-writes-letter-to-chirac-blogosphere-goes-crazy/).

Seems that some people are jumping the gun a bit here.
ahhh thanks. good googling!

The only places I can find mention of such a letter is the Figaro website quoted in the OP and a large number of blogs.

None of those can point to something that says he wrote it to the "French president". It seems an utterly ludicrous assumption to make.

Some, like this guy (http://volokh.com/posts/1237811772.shtml), point out that Chirac is the founder of the "Foundation for Sustainable Development and Cultural Dialogue" so it's most likely that Obama wrote to him in that function.

Sorry to put a halt on everyone's excitement; turns out that Obama was replying to a letter from Chirac asking for support for the goals of the Jacques Chirac Foundation (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/03/23/obama-writes-letter-to-chirac-blogosphere-goes-crazy/).

Seems that some people are jumping the gun a bit here.
I bow to your superior google-fu.

If Obama did this mistakenly... why does nobody care? You all would have pounced on this if Bush did it.
because the page has turned and we have far more important things to worry about.

kinda like how it was SHOCKING that bill clinton was a dope smoking draft dodger but no one really cared that bush was an alcoholic cocaine snorting draft avoider.

Sorry to put a halt on everyone's excitement; turns out that Obama was replying to a letter from Chirac asking for support for the goals of the Jacques Chirac Foundation (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/03/23/obama-writes-letter-to-chirac-blogosphere-goes-crazy/).

Seems that some people are jumping the gun a bit here.

ahhh thanks. good googling!



So many problems could be avoided by Googling...

Indeed.

If Obama did this mistakenly... why does nobody care? You all would have pounced on this if Bush did it.
Because it's ridiculous to assume a head of state would make a mistake like that? Even Bush, believe it or not.
It's not like he quickly jots down his letters in his own hand and drops them off at the nearest mailbox.

because the page has turned and we have far more important things to worry about.

kinda like how it was SHOCKING that bill clinton was a dope smoking draft dodger but no one really cared that bush was an alcoholic cocaine snorting draft avoider.

I cared. :(

Indeed.
Hehe.

I cared. :(
were you outraged by the draftdodging drug using-ishness of both men?

Indeed.

East Tofu wins the March 'Most ironic OP of the month' award.

rightblogistan full of stupid and fail; shocking film at 11

were you outraged by the draftdodging drug using-ishness of both men?

No! Just Bush! *cries* It was wrong... wrong wrong... but Bush was such a bad president... I had no choice! I'd pounce on anything!

Troll failed.

No! Just Bush! *cries* It was wrong... wrong wrong... but Bush was such a bad president... I had no choice! I'd pounce on anything!
lol

ok ok ill admit that at the beginning i MAY have focused a bit much on his party boy "goes into the air national guard so he'll never go to vietnam" thing. but now there is just sooooo much more to hate him for that i find it petty to bring it up.

lol

ok ok ill admit that at the beginning i MAY have focused a bit much on his party boy "goes into the air national guard so he'll never go to vietnam" thing. but now there is just sooooo much more to hate him for that i find it petty to bring it up.

Maybe we should start a group meeting sort of thing. It's time for these old wounds to heal.

Maybe we should start a group meeting sort of thing. It's time for these old wounds to heal.
oh i wish we could. but the obama administration is supposed to release MORE torture memos from the bush administration this week....

maybe i can get my doctor to put me into a medically induced coma...

Troll failed.

no more so than usual

oh i wish we could. but the obama administration is supposed to release MORE torture memos from the bush administration this week....

maybe i can get my doctor to put me into a medically induced coma...

That squirrely coke sniffing draft dodging son of a... *breathes deep* remember the steps. Remember the steps.

... ffs.

First he gives Brown a naff present, then he writes to Chirac hoping their countries can work together successfully in a new era of peace. If he even watched the news he'd see Sarko taking Brown's ideas and claiming that he was the solution to all of Europe's problems.

Get him a capable aide, pls.

... ffs.

First he gives Brown a naff present, then he writes to Chirac hoping their countries can work together successfully in a new era of peace. If he even watched the news he'd see Sarko taking Brown's ideas and claiming that he was the solution to all of Europe's problems.

Get him a capable aide, pls.

Hey, read the whole thread.

Sorry to put a halt on everyone's excitement; turns out that Obama was replying to a letter from Chirac asking for support for the goals of the Jacques Chirac Foundation.

Seems that some people are jumping the gun a bit here.

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. In that case, then the letter makes some semblance of reasonable sense (at least in terms of who got it, not in terms of policies doomed to fail). Thus, I retract my statement about Mr. Obama getting Mr. Bush's village idiot card.

If Obama did this mistakenly... why does nobody care? You all would have pounced on this if Bush did it.
This is why:
Sorry to put a halt on everyone's excitement; turns out that Obama was replying to a letter from Chirac asking for support for the goals of the Jacques Chirac Foundation (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/03/23/obama-writes-letter-to-chirac-blogosphere-goes-crazy/).

Seems that some people are jumping the gun a bit here.
... ffs.

First he gives Brown a naff present, then he writes to Chirac hoping their countries can work together successfully in a new era of peace. If he even watched the news he'd see Sarko taking Brown's ideas and claiming that he was the solution to all of Europe's problems.

Get him a capable aide, pls.
You know, if the thread was 20+ pages, Id excuse this. But the above, showing what really happened and exposing the troll, was on page fucking two. There is no excuse for that.

I picked Napoleon.

Merci, citoyen. Mais je étais pas le Président, je étais l'Empereur.

Petain.

Why would you post an article in French? Its kind of annoying on an English forum.

Some of us can read French. :p

what with France being a colony of the anglophone United States the answer is obviously Obama.

*awaits effigies of myself to be burnt in l'Hexagone*

A quiz for all of you.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualites/2009/03/19/01001-20090319ARTFIG00357-confidentiel-barack-obama-a-ecrit-a-jacques-chirac-.php

So many problems could be avoided by Googling...

So - either you can read French - in which case you knew what you were posting, and thus were trolling...

Or you can't read French, and were simply recycling some dumb crap you found elsewhere, and never bothered to check.

I wonder which.

So many problems could be avoided by Googling.

Why would you post an article in French? Its kind of annoying on an English forum.

It's an international forum...

Some of us can read French. :p

And you never stop rubbing our noses in it! Fiend!:p

So - either you can read French - in which case you knew what you were posting, and thus were trolling...

Or you can't read French, and were simply recycling some dumb crap you found elsewhere, and never bothered to check.

I wonder which.

So many problems could be avoided by Googling.

Hmm... a thread that was created entirely for the point of trying to poke the Lidless Eye Over Washington? Wow, as long as ET doesn't make any Ebil Mozlem threads it'll be hard to believe it's not Kimchi.

Hmm... a thread that was created entirely for the point of trying to poke the Lidless Eye Over Washington? Wow, as long as ET doesn't make any Ebil Mozlem threads it'll be hard to believe it's not Kimchi.
ive been trying my best not to jump on the (very tedious) "he is kimchi" bandwagon.

but kimchi posted just this way dozens of times--putting up crap threads backed by links that when you read them didnt support his thesis.

So - either you can read French - in which case you knew what you were posting, and thus were trolling...

Or you can't read French, and were simply recycling some dumb crap you found elsewhere, and never bothered to check.

Not really. The article didn't contain the explanation for why the letter was written. It was that article that seems to have sent the blogosphere into overdrive.

I.e. s/he might very well be able to read French AND never bothered to check.

ZOMG! WYTYG! We're both on at the same time! Too bad I gotta go . . .
But /wave!

Not really. The article didn't contain the explanation for why the letter was written. It was that article that seems to have sent the blogosphere into overdrive.

I.e. s/he might very well be able to read French AND never bothered to check.

My French is a little rusty, but it looks like it's pretty explicit that Chirac isn't the current president of France. Leaping to the conclusion that Obama MUST therefore, be thinking Chirac IS the President, is a hell of a reach. Indeed, such a reading would require either partisanship of a quite extraordinary level, or a leap that just doesn't seem warranted in any way.

Sarkozy, though it doesn't really matter to me since I'm not Franch. That's right, I said Franch.

My French is a little rusty, but it looks like it's pretty explicit that Chirac isn't the current president of France. Leaping to the conclusion that Obama MUST therefore, be thinking Chirac IS the President, is a hell of a reach. Indeed, such a reading would require either partisanship of a quite extraordinary level, or a leap that just doesn't seem warranted in any way.
Sure it's a reach, that's what people have been objecting to.

I was just saying that your two options weren't necessarily true. That doesn't have anything to do with it being a reach.

I think we're misunderstanding each other. *confused*

Sure it's a reach, that's what people have been objecting to.

I was just saying that your two options weren't necessarily true. That doesn't have anything to do with it being a reach.

I think we're misunderstanding each other. *confused*

No, we're understanding each other... but, if the person posting this link CAN read French, regurgitating the 'Obama doesn't know who the French President is' thing is just bullshit.

Even a casual examination (with my admittedly rusty French) would suggest that there's just no reason to jump to that conclusion. The President isn't limited to writing to people he think might be the president of France, or anywhere else... so, even if the article itself hadn't explicitly stated Chirac was no longer President, there's nothing about it that actually suggests what is being claimed.

This just in! Former French President writes to Obama, Obama replies!

Yup, I call DK.

That squirrely coke sniffing draft dodging son of a... *breathes deep* remember the steps. Remember the steps.Yes, absent-mindedly failing down a flight of stairs would be very embarrassing.

Yup, I call DK.

Is East Tofu DK? God damnit! All this time I was imagining East Tofu as that hot lady in his avatar.

This just in! Former French President writes to Obama, Obama replies!

Yup, I call DK.

The saddest part is that his style of trolling hasnt even changed.

No, we're understanding each other...
No, we totally are because:
but, if the person posting this link CAN read French, regurgitating the 'Obama doesn't know who the French President is' thing is just bullshit.

Even a casual examination (with my admittedly rusty French) would suggest that there's just no reason to jump to that conclusion. The President isn't limited to writing to people he think might be the president of France, or anywhere else... so, even if the article itself hadn't explicitly stated Chirac was no longer President, there's nothing about it that actually suggests what is being claimed.
... well, yeah. I know. That's what I said people in this thread rightfully got upset about and pointed out.

But that doesn't have anything to do with what I replied to your post re. the two possibilities of either 1) the OP knowing French and thus trolling or 2) the OP not knowing French and not bothering to check.
I said it's just as possible that 3) the OP knows French and didn't bother to check. And in a way, the article is tendentious in and of itself because it does in fact not give the reason for Obama writing to Chirac, which is why so many blogs took the story and ran with it. Which is what the OP did here.

This has to be the most unimportant discussion ever. >< ;p

Is East Tofu DK? God damnit! All this time I was imagining East Tofu as that hot lady in his avatar.

That 'hot lady' is a dude...

This has to be the most unimportant discussion ever. >< ;p
Oh, it's far from record-setting...

Oh, it's far from record-setting...

For instance... this one... :D

I picked Napoleon.

I am so smart! S-M-R-T!

I'm wearing pajama pants right now, upon which Homer decrees that I, too, am so smrt.

Don't need you anymore, high school diploma!

that 'hot lady' is a dude...

RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAGGGEE

edit: damn anti capslock

It's an international forum...

Fine next time someone asks me to cite something ill make sure its in Russian or Greek, is that the way we are going to start doing things?

Fine next time someone asks me to cite something ill make sure its in Russian or Greek, is that the way we are going to start doing things?

The article in question - whether or not it's bullshit - is in French. It's in the French media, hence being in French.

If the relevant source is in Greek, that WOULD be the one to present, yes.

Lol.

I truly have no idea.

-sigh- Put De Gaulle for the lulz

The article in question - whether or not it's bullshit - is in French. It's in the French media, hence being in French.

If the relevant source is in Greek, that WOULD be the one to present, yes.

If your going to do a post in French then do the whole thing in French. That way a reader can say ok this is French bullshit and its wasting my time if i dont know French. Are we supposed to start clicking links in OPs and just hope they are in English and just have a random hope that we can even read them now?

Clemenceau

Ran the article through babel fish. Don't think that was what the article was getting at.
More like the successor to bush writes a letter to the predecessor to Skorzy (or however it is spelled). If A french speaker is here of course they have better creds then babel fish.

Indeed.

Oh, the irony. It's so ironic.

The saddest part is that his style of trolling hasnt even changed.

No, the saddest part is that we're going to have to add two more words to the ever-expanding Deep Whispering Online Hot---you get the picture.

The saddest part is that his style of trolling hasnt even changed.

http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/star-wars-not-a-moon.jpg

"Rrrrrrawwrrrrr!"
"No kidding, I thought we had a breather from those."
"What is it?"
"I felt a sudden disturbance in the Force, as if a million Muslims were lumped together by the actions of a few, then silenced."

Everyone should know after Palin's epic Phail at it, lol...

president is a title, not a function. thus whoever is is whoever is.

the signifigance of this is an entirely seperate question.

personalities mean far less to the kind of world we all have to live in, then policies and examples. not just at the top, but from all of us at all levels.

a more literal answer is i haven't felt motivated to pay that much attention with the far greater impacts of more immediate conditions and situations. now if i lived in france, this question might have a somewhat greater bearing on them, but as it happens that i don't... and no disrespect to those who do intended.

president is a title, not a function. thus whoever is is whoever is.

Title II of the French Constitution implies that the President of the Republic is ALSO a function - and that this function is referred to with the abstract form "Presidency of the Republic" only when a President's term has expired.


http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/english/8ab.asp#TITLE%20II

TITLE II - The President of the Republic



Article 5

The President of the Republic shall ensure due respect for the Constitution. He shall ensure, by his arbitration, the proper functioning of the public authorities and the continuity of the State.

He shall be the guarantor of national independence, territorial integrity and due respect for Treaties.

Article 6

The President of the Republic shall be elected for a term of five years by direct universal suffrage.
[...]

Article 7

The President of the Republic shall be elected by an absolute majority of votes cast. If such a majority is not obtained on the first ballot, a second ballot shall take place on the fourteenth day thereafter. Only the two candidates polling the greatest number of votes in the first ballot, after any withdrawal of better placed candidates, may stand in the second ballot.

The process of electing a President shall commence by the calling of said election by the Government.

The election of the new President shall be held no fewer than twenty days and no more than thirty-five days before the expiry of the term of the President in office.

Should the Presidency of the Republic fall vacant for any reason whatsoever,
[...]

Article 8

The President of the Republic shall appoint the Prime Minister. He shall terminate the appointment of the Prime Minister when the latter tenders the resignation of the Government.

On the recommendation of the Prime Minister, he shall appoint the other members of the Government and terminate their appointments..

...

*Clears throat*

Sarzoky is the President of France... and I am Sparticus.

if only every nation had some way of actually holding their heads of states TO that first paragiraph in section five, instead of only insisting they go through whatever happens to be considered the proper or at least tolerated motions at the time.

yes, if i lived there i'd be very concerned who he is. just as i am about who, or rather what perspective he represents, or attempts to when his ego doesn't get in the way of doing so, we have where i am. which is the u.s. which i really wish would stop trying to be (economic) world dictator.

obama was a STEP away from that from what we had before, but not nearly as many steps nor as far as i would prefer. he's probably still the best we could have got, i just wish, hope, someday we'll have, real incentives for letting there be peace and gratification for everyone instead.

the french system, as i dimly 'understand' it, you sort of have two presidents, one's kind of like a king only not a king, with limited powers like those of a constitutional monarch, except elected rather then inhierited, and then there's someone who'se like a pm or a corporate ceo, who'se the actual executive and serves for a shorter term then the other. or at least that was my understanding when degaul was alive and the kind of king who wasn't a king. i don't even know if you've still got that kind of a system and i forget what the're called. if i've got it right the president one is called the president and the longer serving one is called premier or something like that?

or did you get rid of that system at some point and just have the president? or what?

the french system, as i dimly 'understand' it, you sort of have two presidents, one's kind of like a king only not a king, with limited powers like those of a constitutional monarch, except elected rather then inhierited, and then there's someone who'se like a pm or a corporate ceo, who'se the actual executive and serves for a shorter term then the other. or at least that was my understanding when degaul was alive and the kind of king who wasn't a king. i don't even know if you've still got that kind of a system and i forget what the're called. if i've got it right the president one is called the president and the longer serving one is called premier or something like that?

or did you get rid of that system at some point and just have the president? or what?

Are you perhaps confusing France - with its (AFAIK) strong presidency - to, for example, Germany - with its weak presidency (an elected figurehead)?

Are you perhaps confusing France - with its (AFAIK) strong presidency - to, for example, Germany - with its weak presidency (an elected figurehead)?

i don't think so, only what is probably history with what might be a today over there i haven't kept up with.

i have no idea if it still does, but the last time i did, or thought i did, i would have swore it had both. two separate positions, each held by different people, one of each. the weaker and more symbolic serving for a longer term the the maximum repetition of terms of the ("stronger") other. for the sake of the kind of continuity that comes from having a constitutional monarch or some sort of near equivalent.

forgive the ignorant american, but degaull WAS still alive for many years when i was growing up. and i'm pretty sure, whatever his position was called, was again filled at least once, by somebody. and while somebody ELSE was the actual president. several somebody elses in somewhat more frequent succession. i really don't know the details of how that system actually worked. perhapse its ancient history or i'm only imagining it. if you're from there and really know that nothing of the sort exists, thats fine, but whatever timeline i was on during what i experienced as the 50s and 60s, i'm real almost positive it did then.

at any rate, i liked meterand more then chiraq, what little i knew, or have been led to think i knew, about either of them. like all heads of state, each had been naughty, each in their own way, just a matter of what is represented as nearer and farther from my own simpathies.

If your going to do a post in French then do the whole thing in French.


The post wasn't in French, the source was.


That way a reader can say ok this is French bullshit and its wasting my time if i dont know French.


YOU might not know French, but your limitations are not my limitations. The fact that you lack the capacity to comprehend the source doesn't mean it's useless, a 'waste of time' OR 'bullshit' - it just means YOU lack the capacity to comprehend it.


Are we supposed to start clicking links in OPs and just hope they are in English and just have a random hope that we can even read them now?

No. Those that aren't going to be in English are usually fairly heavily signposted, in my experience.

But, if the best or only source for reference is in some foreign language, it is better to cite a source than no source. Preferably, whoever is posting the source would give some kind of summary for the non-readers, but that can be kind of counterproductive if you are - for example - expecting to get responses TO the source.

Fine next time someone asks me to cite something ill make sure its in Russian or Greek, is that the way we are going to start doing things?

Start things? It's been happening for a while. I've seen articles and sources in Dutch, German, Swedish and French, to name some examples.

Just because you are unable to read the sources doesn't mean they're any less valid. In fact, I can guarantee you that there's some information out there that won't be available in english. Discounting it all on the basis of language alone is as stupid as saying that if it's not on the internet, ready to be linked to, it's not valid.

If you have a problem with it you're welcome to ask if someone has a source in a language you can understand, or stay the fuck out of the thread. Not too difficult, really.

If a person who speaks two languages is called "bilingual", and a person who speaks many languages is called "polyglot", what do you call a person who only speaks one language?



"American"

If a person who speaks two languages is called "bilingual", and a person who speaks many languages is called "polyglot", what do you call a person who only speaks one language?



"American"

lulz.

Old joke is old.