NationStates Jolt Archive

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/GPA02-09_US_Secret_Service_press_release_2009_Limousine_Page_2_Image.jpg

Why does Obama have to use this rather than something like a heavily-modified Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima or Toyota Camry instead? (all are far better-looking than this ugly one!)

Also, the Fusion offers all-wheel-drive too...

Why do you hate Freedom?

Well, first of all, it will be a cold day in hell when the presidential limo is a Japanese car.

As far as the Ford Fusion, maybe it just wasn't classy enough?

Why do you hate Freedom?

Cause I don't like the taste?

Cause I don't like the taste?

Anyone else just taste Purple? lol

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/GPA02-09_US_Secret_Service_press_release_2009_Limousine_Page_2_Image.jpg

Why does Obama have to use this rather than something like a heavily-modified Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima or Toyota Camry instead? (all are far better-looking than this ugly one!)

Also, the Fusion offers all-wheel-drive too...

Because 2 of those cars are Japanese and all of the cars you list are built much cheaper than a Cadillac, so it would take much more to modify them. Plus you need a full size car to work with in order to stretch the chassis for a limousine.

Also Cadillacs are the most often used cars of the presidency (I believe, and it seems that way according to wiki).

Because 2 of those cars are Japanese and all of the cars you list are built much cheaper than a Cadillac, so it would take much more to modify them. Plus you need a full size car to work with in order to stretch the chassis for a limousine.

Also Cadillacs are the most often used cars of the presidency (I believe, and it seems that way according to wiki).

Idk...They may be Japanese...but, $5 says they employed more Americans to build them all together...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/GPA02-09_US_Secret_Service_press_release_2009_Limousine_Page_2_Image.jpg

Why does Obama have to use this rather than something like a heavily-modified Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima or Toyota Camry instead? (all are far better-looking than this ugly one!)

Also, the Fusion offers all-wheel-drive too...

One can only fit so much into a certain sized frame. One might be able to armor a camry but an independent air supply, communications equipment and a dozen other unique security features makes putting it into a smaller car much harder.

Idk...They may be Japanese...but, $5 says they employed more Americans to build them all together...

...So?

...So?

The implication being that if the President were to buy a Nissan Limo, itd more likely benefit the American Worker more than anything else...

The implication being that if the President were to buy a Nissan Limo, itd more likely benefit the American Worker more than anything else...

Well the idea of the government putting money into a foreign car maker's pocket doesn't benefit anyone in this country except those workers. Maybe they'd make $100 in labor for putting the car together?

It benefits the car maker of course.

Well the idea of the government putting money into a foreign car maker's pocket doesn't benefit anyone in this country except those workers. Maybe they'd make $100 in labor for putting the car together?

It benefits the car maker of course.

True it does benefit them...However, Would you rather support tons of Americans and a few Japanese....or Tons of Mexicans/Canadians and a few Americans?

True it does benefit them...However, Would you rather support tons of Americans and a few Japanese....or Tons of Mexicans/Canadians and a few Americans?

yeah and the Japanese do their building mostly in right to work states. Benefits the south a lot more.

yeah and the Japanese do their building mostly in right to work states. Benefits the south a lot more.

Im not seeing a problem with this at all ;) lol

Im not seeing a problem with this at all ;) lol

So Obama's choice in car means it is obvious Obama doesn't like the South.
Fort Sumter!!

So Obama's choice in car means it is obvious Obama doesn't like the South.
Fort Sumter!!

lmao, Nah, Screw South Carolina, Fort Massachusetts, lol...(ancient base on Ship Island in the Mississippi Sound)

I wonder if he buys carbon offsets for it?

lmao, Nah, Screw South Carolina, Fort Massachusetts, lol...(ancient base on Ship Island in the Mississippi Sound)

I always found it amusing it fought a battle with a ship by the same name as the fort.

I always found it amusing it fought a battle with a ship by the same name as the fort.

lol, actually, its more ironic than that...Its named after the ship...

Prior to that it was the "Fort on Ship Island" lol...

OK; can't see a Ford Fusion as a good presidential car due to it being Mexican-built, but maybe a stretched Ford Taurus would be good:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/2010_Ford_Taurus_SEL--DC.jpg/350px-2010_Ford_Taurus_SEL--DC.jpg

It'd also be putting money into the U.S. economy. Great-looking sedan too, shame we don't get it here in Europe!

If I were President, my presidential limo would be a stretched Lincoln Continental ca. 1977-1979. These new Cadillacs are just ugly.

Y'know, it might not even need to be stretched :p
http://www.classiccarclubphuket.com/Webpics/Brochures/Lincoln%20Continental%20Mark%20V%20Emilio%20Pucci%201977.jpg

Because 2 of those cars are Japanese and all of the cars you list are built much cheaper than a Cadillac, so it would take much more to modify them. Plus you need a full size car to work with in order to stretch the chassis for a limousine.
It's not a modified Cadillac.

It's a GMC Kodiak truck with a custom body sharing some styling cues with Cadillac cars.

The car doesn't share any significant component with any passenger vehicle. It has truck chassis, truck engine, truck transmission, modified truck suspension, custom wheels, custom body, custom armor, custom interior. Maybe some handles and switches inside come from regular cars, but that's it.

If I were President, my presidential limo would be a stretched Lincoln Continental ca. 1977-1979. These new Cadillacs are just ugly.

Y'know, it might not even need to me stretched :p
http://www.classiccarclubphuket.com/Webpics/Brochures/Lincoln%20Continental%20Mark%20V%20Emilio%20Pucci%201977.jpg

I remeber that ad Campaign. it was billed as "The car you can show off to your white friends"

I remeber that ad Campaign. it was billed as "The car you can show off to your white friends"

That does explain why they kept showing me their Lincoln....:rolleyes:

That does explain why they kept showing me their Lincoln....:rolleyes:

You know they almost got the Fuel economy standards removed on the grounds of racist because of that car.

*insert 24" rims joke here*

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/GPA02-09_US_Secret_Service_press_release_2009_Limousine_Page_2_Image.jpg

Why does Obama have to use this rather than something like a heavily-modified Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima or Toyota Camry instead? (all are far better-looking than this ugly one!)



Well, for one, that's an opinion. Personally, I find Caddys to be much more badass. Nothing says "power" like a black stretch Cadillac. Also, obviously, higher levels of luxury already included.

This (http://jalopnik.com/5134488/presidential-gatling-gun+equipped-suburban-badder-than-new-cadillac-limo) pwns everything.

This (http://jalopnik.com/5134488/presidential-gatling-gun+equipped-suburban-badder-than-new-cadillac-limo) pwns everything.

Chance of Obama being assassinated going down.

I can't be the only one who thinks Obama should have consulted Clarkson, Hammond and May on his choice of car. I can't be!

This could also work!

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/olifant/images/olifant_tank1.jpg

This could also work!

<tanka tanka tanka>

Not very subtle.

Not very subtle.

We were going for subtle?

We were going for subtle?

Not really, but something that can drive on roads without tearing them up would be nice.

Well, first of all, it will be a cold day in hell when the presidential limo is a Japanese car.

Hahaha! Come off it. I'm sure the President of East Germany wouldn't have been caught dead in a Trabi, or any other communist death trap.

Well, for one, that's an opinion. Personally, I find Caddys to be much more badass. Nothing says "power" like a black stretch Cadillac.
I've always suspected blacks don't really have longer shafts.

Now I know.

says Ken Lucci, CEO of Ambassador Limousine Inc. and owner of two Reagan-era limos. "In today's case, they [the Secret Service] expect a prolonged attack, and they expect an attack that is a lot more violent than [with] a weapon you can hold in you hand."

Among other things, the walls are all eight inches thick. Diplomats and executives use cars like these all over the world; they have to.

"It literally is a rolling bunker," he says. "It just happens to have wheels on it."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/driving.obama/index.html

I wonder how the limo would fair against a kamikaze attack.

I can't be the only one who thinks Obama should have consulted Clarkson, Hammond and May on his choice of car. I can't be!
Yeah. They would absolutely decry this thing for a useless engine, tortoise speed, lack of handling, and being a caddy.

If you ever want a custom armored limo, trust the job to the Germans. They'll give it a car-like chassis, car-like handling, tons of luxury, a smooth transmission, and an enormously powerful engine. I think twin AMG 6.3L V8 joined into a V16 would be just right. 1036 horsepower, should do for a superpower. And they even do Black Series.


Face it. Sometimes, just sometimes, when riding a Cadillac, somewhere deep inside, you wish you were in a Mercedes.

(Of course, when it breaks down and you stand freezing waiting for a cab, you wish you had a Lexus, but still.)

Why do you hate Freedom?
Gorramit! That's my line.

Gorramit!
I like this new expression.:p

If you ever want a custom armored limo, trust the job to the Germans. They'll give it a car-like chassis, car-like handling, tons of luxury, a smooth transmission, and an enormously powerful engine.

And probably not very much defensive properties against the RPG 27 to 29 series. But then again, I suspect this limo lacks defensive properties against those either.

And probably not very much defensive properties against the RPG 27 to 29 series. But then again, I suspect this limo lacks defensive properties against those either.
In similar weight constraints, it will have better defensive properties than the Cadillac one.

Germans are the only ones who have actual experience mass-producing armored road cars. You can have it in multiple levels of protection. You can have a Mercedes or a BMW, armored at the factory. You can have a natively long limo, not a cutting-welding stretch job. You can even have an armored E-class (http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2009-mercedes-benz-e-guard-officials-details-specs-and-pricing/#more-1308) today for just 58 grand; not every Joe's price range, but in line with other executive cars. It's no longer an exclusive bespoke build for top politicians, it's accessible to anyone who spends somewhat more on a car. They have the experience, they know how to do it with any protection level you choose, and they'll do it better.

For GM (Cadillac), making an armored car is a one-off job. For Mercedes, it's a daily business. Asking GM to make an armored stretch limo is like asking a shipyard to build an a plane - they'll do it, but it won't be quite as good as one from Boeing.

And it shows. Truck chassis and drivetrain are major drawbacks. It's a ton of weight wasted, which could be used for better armor instead. It's a lot of height wasted for the rails, which could be used to make a V-hull. It's not enough power to pull its weight at freeway speeds. And, while, being far from a fan of Obama, I don't really care, it's probably not the same ride.

Really, when Köhler and Obama pull side by side in their limos, the latter will be very underwhelming. Because Köhler's Mercedes is a great car, protected without sacrificing the driving qualities, and Obama's chimera isn't.

Another one of these threads?

I like the idea of a presidential moped. How awesome would that be?

I like the idea of a presidential moped. How awesome would that be?

Fuel efficient.

Also Cadillacs are the most often used cars of the presidency (I believe, and it seems that way according to wiki).

Also, to get something on the same class level of the Cadillac, you'd have to take an european car like, dunno, a Rolls-Royce. I'd think it would be VERY improper for the Head of State of a car-producing country to use a foreign car - bad for the image.
So US presidents get Cadillacs, Italian presidents get Lancia, German chancellors get Mercedes-Benz, etc.

And probably not very much defensive properties against the RPG 27 to 29 series. But then again, I suspect this limo lacks defensive properties against those either.

Then you take a German car and have it modified by a Jewish Russian engineer.

Mh... Armoured Mercedes-Benz with Arena system...

Then you take a German car and have it modified by a Jewish Russian engineer.

Mh... Armoured Mercedes-Benz with Arena system...

Probably not. The Arena is a hefty 1,100 kg package, being built with tank carrying capacities in mind after all.

Probably not. The Arena is a hefty 1,100 kg package, being built with tank carrying capacities in mind after all.

So?
You're underestimating ze pover of Gherman enghines! Ach! ;)

They need a presidential Hummer.

Because 2 of those cars are Japanese and all of the cars you list are built much cheaper than a Cadillac, so it would take much more to modify them. Plus you need a full size car to work with in order to stretch the chassis for a limousine.
They didn't stretch or modify anything. This is not a Cadillac chassis, it's a GMC Kodiak commercial lorry chassis.


Also Cadillacs are the most often used cars of the presidency (I believe, and it seems that way according to wiki).
In US? Surely. Elsewhere it's AFAIK Mercedes S-class.


I'd think it would be VERY improper for the Head of State of a car-producing country to use a foreign car - bad for the image.
Bad for the image as a polished-skull patriot. But Obama was the one promoting internationalism.


Also, to get something on the same class level of the Cadillac, you'd have to take an european car like, dunno, a Rolls-Royce.
Are you kidding? Rolls-Royce is two heads above Cadillac, it's in a whole other world. Cadillac is somewhere on the level of... maybe around Lexus and Audi. Not quite Audi yet, though they're trying to be it now, but a cheaper alternative to Lexus on the same image level.
It had a few good moments, but for the last four decades Caddy has been associated with big mobile sofas for dying middle-class octogenarians. BMW is targeting the middle and upper-middle class, Merc middle and upper, Rolls-Royce is strictly upper-class, you wouldn't want to park it in the same lot.

Bad for the image as a polished-skull patriot. But Obama was the one promoting internationalism.


.

he is also promoting protectionism.

he is also promoting protectionism.

Just ask the Mexicans.

It's not a modified Cadillac.

It's a GMC Kodiak truck with a custom body sharing some styling cues with Cadillac cars.

They didn't stretch or modify anything. This is not a Cadillac chassis, it's a GMC Kodiak commercial lorry chassis.

You want to repeat yourself one more time? Wtf?

So it's based on a truck platform. You win. Happy?

Everyone still calls it a Cadillac. And it still looks like a Cadillac. And the secret service calls it Cadillac One.

Why don't you go tell the secret service they're wrong too?

You want to repeat yourself one more time? Wtf?

So it's based on a truck platform. You win. Happy?

Everyone still calls it a Cadillac. And it still looks like a Cadillac. And the secret service calls it Cadillac One.

Why don't you go tell the secret service they're wrong too?

I did and they shot me in the leg. freaking assholes.

You want to repeat yourself one more time? Wtf?
Because you didn't get it the first time, and cited the ease of modification as a reason for trusting the job to GM. Which it isn't, as it isn't a modification.


Everyone still calls it a Cadillac. And it still looks like a Cadillac.
Ever seen little 15-grand Toyotas with plastic body kits that look like Ferrari F40?

This is the same, but inverse.

Ford Taurus's made to Presidential standards would work - they're also a pretty good car.

Didn't they have Lincolns at one point? Well, a Ford Taurus or Lincoln MKS might be a good one - but they'd have to be specially modified by Ford, which they do for the police/emergency services on a daily basis.

As for the Mercedes suggestions earlier on in the thread; well, it wouldn't work in the United States, but other nations do use it!

Because you didn't get it the first time

Wrong. I never posted anything after your original response.


Ever seen little 15-grand Toyotas with plastic body kits that look like Ferrari F40?

This is the same, but inverse.

Wrong. It's not a kit car. Everything contained in it is a GM product (aside from the sealed air supply I'm sure), and it's labeled a Cadillac. Logic would leave me to believe that GM wanted it to be called a Cadillac.

It's not a Fiero with Countach-looking body panels after all.

http://www.diecastcars.tv/images/24048.JPG

I think they should go back to the Lincoln Continentals.

I like the idea of a presidential moped. How awesome would that be?
Screw that. Presidential Vespa. With stylish side car for Michelle.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/vespa-10.jpg

I never posted anything after your original response.
OK, you didn't know. No problem.


It's not a kit car. Everything contained in it is a GM product (aside from the sealed air supply I'm sure), and it's labeled a Cadillac.
It is a GM product all right, but it's not a stretched STS-V or any other Cadillac model. It's a one-off GM product that only carries the Cadillac badge.

The point being, the characteristics of actual Cadillacs have no bearing on the difficulty of building this vehicle. It could just as well be branded anything else.

I like it. I'm getting one.

An American President HAS to ride in an American car. That is simple. As far as the brand, well he is the President, so it has to be a luxury car. That narrows it down to Cadillac and Lincoln. Feel free to choose between the 2. FYI I drive a Lincoln.

Anyone else just taste Purple? lol
i like purple. also yellow and pink. btw, how does purple taste?

Face it. Sometimes, just sometimes, when riding a Cadillac, somewhere deep inside, you wish you were in a Mercedes.

(Of course, when it breaks down and you stand freezing waiting for a cab, you wish you had a Lexus, but still.)

Expect for the fact.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123750302634389581.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Your right, don't buy a caddie, or a Lexus, Get a Buick :D

( I know a guy with a 2002 STS with 340,000 miles on it, caddies unreliable? My ass. )

But yeah, I would love to put that into an armored Maybach, then we're talking some serious speed and performance :D

Are you kidding? Rolls-Royce is two heads above Cadillac, it's in a whole other world. Cadillac is somewhere on the level of... maybe around Lexus and Audi. Not quite Audi yet, though they're trying to be it now, but a cheaper alternative to Lexus on the same image level.

Gee. I'd thought that the Cadi would be at least on par with a Mercedes. My bad.

What your luxury car says about you:

Cadillac or Lincoln: "I have a lot of money, and I need to flaunt it a bit."

Lexus: "I have a lot of money, but I hate American brands because they sucked for a while back in the day - like from about 1980 to 1995."

BMW and Audi: "I have a lot of money, and I wish there was a US version of the Autobahn."

Jaguar and Mercedes: "I'm a rich snob "

Rolls-Royce and Bugatti: "I'm a filthy rich asshole"

At least, those are probably the best descriptions here in the US. I think it's best for the Prez to stay with the Cadillac :p

What your luxury car says about you:
I have to strongly disagree with this assessment. It's based on a mix of very obsolete stereotypes and outright... IDK what.


Cadillac or Lincoln: "I have a lot of money, and I need to flaunt it a bit."
For the last 20 years, Cadillacs have been (until the V-series), and Lincolns still are, as discreet as you can possibly get with a car that isn't completely basic. They cost only a bit above the average family saloon, had (Caddie)/have (Lincoln) the same styling, and were mostly based on entry-level brand vehicles with better interior.

Lincolns and pre-2005 Cadillacs go rather along the lines of "Yes, I am middle-class, but let's not talk about it."


Lexus: "I have a lot of money, but I hate American brands because they sucked for a while back in the day - like from about 1980 to 1995."
They still are not at the Lexus reliability and quality level. Never sucked as much as Citroen, but not quite a match to the Japanese.


BMW and Audi: "I have a lot of money, and I wish there was a US version of the Autobahn."
Jaguar and Mercedes: "I'm a rich snob "
Jaguar is no longer a luxury brand, it's a mid-level one, and has been so for at least a decade.

Correct with the Germans.


Rolls-Royce and Bugatti: "I'm a filthy rich asshole"
A Rolls-Royce person won't touch a Bugatti with a ten-foot pole wearing gloves. Absolutely opposite cars, absolutely opposite images. Rolls-Royce is discreet (to a limit) and very mature, Bugatti is flashier than a yellow Lamborghini convertible.
Rolls-Royce carries the image of royalty, quiet dignity; the new Bugatti that of a footballer's wife.

The implication being that if the President were to buy a Nissan Limo, itd more likely benefit the American Worker more than anything else...But it wouldn't create the public appearance of benefitting the American Worker.

The President shold get himself a H3.

But it wouldn't create the public appearance of benefitting the American Worker.

Thats the core of the problem though, people have the wrong impression of what really constitutes an "American" vehicle...

Jaguar is no longer a luxury brand, it's a mid-level one, and has been so for at least a decade.

Nor is Audi. Definitely mid-class.


Also, what about a Ferrari?

Nor is Audi. Definitely mid-class.
Upper-mid I'd say. They have a couple models, like R8 and Q7, that pull it up a bit. Granted, it's not what Audi is normally associated with, but it's not entirely down to the Jaguar level yet.


Also, what about a Ferrari?
Less easy to position - like Mercedes, it has a special status, but much less clear. I'd say the image projected is along the lines of "I'm an sporty young guy with a lot of money and I like to show it. [ But I'm not a showoff and I have class. ]"

The presence of the second sentence depends on the observer. For people with no interest in cars (that aren't 30 year old Camaros), it wouldn't be there - they tend to lump all sports cars together, be it a Honda S2000, a Porsche GT2 or an Aston Martin. For people with interest in cars or just high enough class that they can afford a real luxury car, the brand difference is major. You can park an Aston next to a Bentley or even a Rolls-Royce anytime, while a Porsche or a Lamborghini there... well, you can. Like you can wear a track suit to a wedding.


Gee. I'd thought that the Cadi would be at least on par with a Mercedes. My bad.
Mercedes is a very special brand. When you say "I have a Cadillac", people imagine you in a DeVille, a big spacious family saloon. When you say "I have a Mercedes", the image that comes up is a black S-class, and you are definitely either a businessman or a politician. It's a brand immediately associated with politics, business,... authority. A Mercedes saloon is the car equivalent of a business suit - the dress-code for your job.
Yes, they do does make affordable cars, but all C-class or E-class are essentially a smaller version of S-class. The staple cars of middle management, and middle management may have middle-class incomes, but their values are closer to those of the capitalist upper class.

Car-wise, well, you can't even compare a Cadillac DeVille to a Mercedes. Mercs are cars that have everything: luxury, comfort, excessive power, speed, handling (somewhat), safety, innovation. Pre-2005 Cadillacs are just big soft cars with leather interior. V-series have pulled it up a lot, but the effect on image isn't quite there yet, and they're too flash to really become another Mercedes. Though they're trying.

I'm being overtly stereotypical here, but that's because it's the stereotypes that create the image.

<snip>.

^ Someone took me seriously when I set automotive stereotypes :p

Besides, the Cadillac is a decoy. This is the real presidential limo:

http://www.bigredlimo.com/blog/assets/content//images/pics-med-14974-310581-limo-donk.jpg

i like purple. also yellow and pink. btw, how does purple taste?

You know what pure Argon tastes like?


Just add some lithium chloride and youve got it whipped ;)

i should think the why really rather obvious. the first anything in the oval office being such obvious assassination attempt bate. kennidy, to ride in an open limo, through dallas, what, did he think he was, superman or something?

whatever the vehicule, it would have to be adiquite to carry the neccessary armour. so it kind of has to be a truck, made to look like a limo, and of course painted black as that part is as per protocal.

i kind of really have to wonder that there is anyone to whome this isn't completely and entirely obvious.

Upper-mid I'd say. They have a couple models, like R8 and Q7, that pull it up a bit. Granted, it's not what Audi is normally associated with, but it's not entirely down to the Jaguar level yet.
Meh, here Audis are quite common. Expecially Quattro, A3 and A4.
Also Mercedes is not uncommon at all (generally A and C class, but also the SLK).

while a Porsche or a Lamborghini there... well, you can. Like you can wear a track suit to a wedding.
Ah, Porsche. What a hunk of junk - they discovered water cooling in the late '90s! And with the same aerodynamical study (just a bit more elongated) they used for the original Beetle!

as if you actually could sufficiently armour any of these cute little hotties, they wouldn't colapse under the weight of it?