NationStates Jolt Archive

So I see this word branded about a lot. It is used when people believe people are giving opinions that are seen as controversial. What are we doing NSG? Are we starting to think there aren't people who hold these opinions in real life and so ignore them or mock them?

What happened to us? When someone comes along with a controversial opinion, instead of debating with the poster who has the opinion "troll" is posted and then pleas to ignore the thread.

Is this how we are going to change people's perceptions? Have we become too apathetic that we can't be bothered to debate back? What's going on?

obvious troll is obvious

Have we become too apathetic that we can't be bothered to debate back?

politics sucks and I only feign an interest because I can't really spam with what I want to talk about

obvious troll is obvious



politics sucks and I only feign an interest because I can't really spam with what I want to talk about

Then your spam fu is lacking. Anyway why do we brand everyone with a controversial opinion a troll? Whether we like it or not people with these thoughts are out there.

Trolling is not "a controversial opinion," but a description of a set of behaviors that lends itself toward not debate, but the hostile exchange of opinions toward no meaningful or beneficial conclusion.

Anyway why do we brand everyone with a controversial opinion a troll? Whether we like it or not people with these thoughts are out there.

My guess is that those who do perceive the person they brand as a troll as expressing opinions solely for the purpose of being deliberately provocative and wanting to be a rabble rouser. The person is perceived as being unable to contribute anything constructive; only able to be destructive.

Then your spam fu is lacking. Anyway why do we brand everyone with a controversial opinion a troll? Whether we like it or not people with these thoughts are out there.

because you' know what? you can't change peoples minds over the internet some (all) people are just complete fucktards who are here to look clever

also trolling you guys into a riot is funny as fuck

That is the cop-out to avoid debate; how do we know the respondents of said controversial opinion are not purposely adopting that stance to just avoid being questioned by said 'troll'?

I'm all for a good debate. I also love controversial things, and I think myself to be quite tolerant, but if someone comes on and starts posting pictures from Auschwitz and then at the bottom posts 'lol', I'd generally call troll. If someone says 'I agree with the Holocaust' and then said why, I'd thoroughly enjoy discussing them.

obvious troll is obvious
D: (http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/unsuccessful_troll.jpg)

It depends on the situation.

Troll actions I have seen:

Post a controversial post and not partaking in the thread.
Debate is full of comments designed to annoy.
Person only debates to annoy because they think it's funny.

Sometimes the label is mistakenly applied. Many times it is not.

Well I suppose the real difficulty is in trying to figure out if someone is searching for debate or trying to get a bunch of responses by voicing an inflammatory statement that may or may not be his actual opinion. Really the only clue to this early on in a thread is format. Later on it becomes more obvious whether someone is a troll or not, but I think people should avoid snap judgements.

because you' know what? you can't change peoples minds over the internet some (all) people are just complete fucktards who are here to look clever

This sounds like projection.

also trolling you guys into a riot is funny as fuck

See what I mean.

SNIP

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5641/unbenanntyx2.png

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5641/unbenanntyx2.png

You're about as clever as rickrolling.

Have we become too apathetic that we can't be bothered to debate back?

yup. once i've seen an opinion that i believe to be in error for the millionth time, i lose interest in arguing it yet again

unless i'm feeling particularly argumentative, of course :P
i do try not to use the term troll, though, as i do recognise there are people with different (and wrong ;)) opinions out there

You're about as clever as rickrolling.

in a thread about trolls no less :p

I've been branded a troll many times on these forums. However, unlike a "true" troll, I'm quite prepared to defend my opinions.

I've been branded a troll many times on these forums. However, unlike a "true" troll, I'm quite prepared to defend my opinions.

Actually, a troll doesn't need to be unprepared to defend their opinions. A troll is essentially an attention whore with opinions to get attention, instead of pictures and random spoutings and the sort. You can be a troll and still defend your opinions.

That being said, I don't think you're a troll, I just despise every last one of your beliefs.:D

http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/1804/0/Arguing_on_the_internet.ashx

that's why

As others have said, trolls are simply those who basically flame for no reason other then to get a 'kick' reaction out of other people.

Maybe it needs to be included into the DSM-IV?

I agree with you, I think that as a whole, this board has gotten troll happy and any opinion that comes from someone new and is not inline with the majority liberal bent here is almost automatically labeled as coming from a troll. We do get trolls of course, but I've noticed that for all the accusations of "TROLL!" or statements about how "obvious troll is obvious" very few get reported to the one group on this board who can and do make the actual determination on if or not that person is a troll or trolling. It's almost as if saying troll has become NSG's way of saying talk to the hand in order to shut down debate.

Trolling is a behaviour, not an opinion.

It has fuck all to do with controversial opinions. Posters like Neu Leonstien or however that's spelled has posted opinions that I would compare to the rational used by Dr. Doom or Lex Luthor, but-he is far far far from a troll. He wouldn't even look like a troll if he bought a troll costume from the Weta Workshop.

It's all in the delivery. He hardly ever argues the poster, almost always argues the argument and doesn't use loaded or inflammatory language to rile the person he's talking to.

It's the difference between "I disagree with this new policy by the president and I think it's destructive and will bring us ruin because of a, b, and c and we need to do x, y, and z and while that will leave these people out in the cold that's just the harsh reality of life," I will likely simply disagree with that, versus, "Captain Fuckwad is ass raping babies while you oxygen deprived mouth breathers hold them down and give him the reach around with this minor story that I am completely misrepresenting to imply that it does something it has nothing to do with it, and I will snipe disparaging remarks that mischaractizes your objections as the ravings of a Cheerio tossing man child that favors the forced march of anyone with more than ten dollars in their wallet..." well, that person is a troll. It has nothing to do with the severity of the opinion, but the sincerity of the expression of that opinion.

If the balance between snark and content is so skewed that the content is barely visible through the snark, the troll label kind of applies.

also trolling you guys into a riot is funny as fuck

I've never understood why. "I said something offensive and people were offended." Um, yay? I imagine people thrilled by such a simplistic one to one relation clapping with short bus glee when they ask for salt and someone passes it to them or turn a door knob and the door opens. I don't get it. I guess some people are just easily amused.

also trolling you guys into a riot is funny as fuck

Short-term bursts of joy fizzle quickly; perpetual contentedness with one's world is paramount to an overall enjoy of all things. Short bursts are unhealthy and lead to great disappointment when the burst is nothing more than a tiny puff of smoke and not the great super nova you were banking on.

Then your spam fu is lacking. Anyway why do we brand everyone with a controversial opinion a troll? Whether we like it or not people with these thoughts are out there.
its mostly because people dont understand what a troll is and what his motivation is.

a troll posts controversial stuff not to spur on debate or to exaggerate his basic stance on an issue but to piss you off.

if you can have a discussion with a "troll" he is not a troll.

It has fuck all to do with controversial opinions. Posters like Neu Leonstien or however that's spelled has posted opinions that I would compare to the rational used by Dr. Doom or Lex Luthor, but-he is far far far from a troll. He wouldn't even look like a troll if he bought a troll costume from the Weta Workshop.

It's all in the delivery. He hardly ever argues the poster, almost always argues the argument and doesn't use loaded or inflammatory language to rile the person he's talking to.

It's the difference between "I disagree with this new policy by the president and I think it's destructive and will bring us ruin because of a, b, and c and we need to do x, y, and z and while that will leave these people out in the cold that's just the harsh reality of life," I will likely simply disagree with that, versus, "Captain Fuckwad is ass raping babies while you oxygen deprived mouth breathers hold them down and give him the reach around with this minor story that I am completely misrepresenting to imply that it does something it has nothing to do with it, and I will snipe disparaging remarks that mischaractizes your objections as the ravings of a Cheerio tossing man child that favors the forced march of anyone with more than ten dollars in their wallet..." well, that person is a troll. It has nothing to do with the severity of the opinion, but the sincerity of the expression of that opinion.

If the balance between snark and content is so skewed that the content is barely visible through the snark, the troll label kind of applies.


I've never understood why. "I said something offensive and people were offended." Um, yay? I imagine people thrilled by such a simplistic one to one relation clapping with short bus glee when they ask for salt and someone passes it to them or turn a door knob and the door opens. I don't get it. I guess some people are just easily amused.

Excellent post.

I am easily amused. :)

I really wish there WERE people who held certain opinions and were able to adequately articulate them. Like buddy over in the feminism thread...there are some really good arguments even I could think of to back up his original point...but he's too busy pretending to spell like shit and piss people off to remember that there should be some substance too. A GOOD troll can spell poorly, piss people off AND maintain a thread by putting in just enough good content to keep things going.

Instead, we get trolls who aren't very good at their jobs :(

I really wish there WERE people who held certain opinions and were able to adequately articulate them. Like buddy over in the feminism thread...there are some really good arguments even I could think of to back up his original point...but he's too busy pretending to spell like shit and piss people off to remember that there should be some substance too. A GOOD troll can spell poorly, piss people off AND maintain a thread by putting in just enough good content to keep things going.

Instead, we get trolls who aren't very good at their jobs :(

They can't all be DK, that's for sure.

*patpat*

there are some really good arguments even I could think of to back up his original point...please do tell them, after all, at least it would make us all think. Knowledge is never bad :)

They can't all be DK, that's for sure.

*patpat**pretends to weep, feels you up*

They can't all be DK, that's for sure.

Even incompetent trolls are better than obnoxious intellectual dishonesty.

It's MTAE who I miss. (A little.)

Even incompetent trolls are better than obnoxious intellectual dishonesty.

It's MTAE who I miss. (A little.)

I miss Andaras, I really really miss him actually. He was awesome.

I miss Andaras, I really really miss him actually. He was awesome.

He got really boring. And really repetitive. And then he just started to steal other people's stuff and I lost all respect for him.

Valentasia was refreshingly original, but he was more of an attention whore than an outright troll.

Trolling is not "a controversial opinion," but a description of a set of behaviors that lends itself toward not debate, but the hostile exchange of opinions toward no meaningful or beneficial conclusion.
May I also add: Trolling is delibrately posting an inflammatory statement that one knows will produce hostile exchanges.
For instance, saying, "Obama is doing a great job" is in itself not inflammatory. But if one posted it in a extreme right-wing site it would be trolling, especially if no facts are presented to back the statement up.

I am easily amused. :)
Your victims would likely disagree :p