NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, a bunch of CEOs get together and come up with these observations:

America's health care system has become a liability in a global economy

Concern about high U.S. costs has existed for years, and business executives - whose companies provide health coverage for workers - have long called for getting costs under control.

Americans in 2006 spent US$1,928 per capita on health care, at least two-and-a-half times more per person than any other advanced country.

The United States is 23 points behind five leading economic competitors: Canada, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and France. The five nations cover all their citizens, and though their systems differ, in each country the government plays a much larger role than in the U.S.

Higher U.S. spending funnels away resources that could be invested elsewhere in the economy, but fails to deliver a healthier work force, the report said.

what this study shows is that the U.S. is not getting higher levels of health and quality of care."

Medical costs have long been a problem for U.S. auto companies. General Motors spends more per car on health care than it does on steel. But as more American companies face global competition, the "value gap" is being felt by more CEOs - and their hard pressed workers.
And their solution?????

The CEOs of the Business Roundtable believe health care for U.S. workers and their families should stay in private hands, with a government-funded safety net for low-income people.
Isn't this exactly why the health care system in the US is broken? I wonder how many millions they got paid to come up with this BS report?

Your thoughts NSG?

Link:

Business Roundtable report: U.S. on short end of health care 'value gap' (http://healthandfitness.sympatico.msn.ca/News/ContentPosting?newsitemid=1125380022&feedname=CP-HEALTH&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=False&pagenumber=1)

Anyone who is really honest with themselves, even conservatives, know that private health insurance is made of fail.


Just watch how angry people get when we suggest that maybe veterens should just use their own private health insurance.

As far as I'm concerned, if a government and society is not focused on free education and health as basics then it's not doing its job.

People can still choose to take out private healthcare if they want, but if I break a leg, I want to be able to go to a hospital without worrying about the eventual cost to me.

There's as much to health in a worry-free recovery as there is in the procedure itself, having to worry about how to pay the bills is unnecessary in this day and age.

Anyone who is really honest with themselves, even conservatives, know that private health insurance is made of fail.
Not these over paid conservatives obviously?

Just watch how angry people get when we suggest that maybe veterens should just use their own private health insurance.
Yeah that would be another kettle of fish for sure.

As far as I'm concerned, if a government and society is not focused on free education and health as basics then it's not doing its job.

People can still choose to take out private healthcare if they want, but if I break a leg, I want to be able to go to a hospital without worrying about the eventual cost to me.

There's as much to health in a worry-free recovery as there is in the procedure itself, having to worry about how to pay the bills is unnecessary in this day and age.
Absolutely bang on!! It is becoming mor and more apparent that these CEO types are missing the mark in everything from banking to healthcare.

I agree that there should be a safety net, I just think the threshold is way too low right now. I would tell you my "plan" but all the people I told laughed at me and patted me on the head and told me to "go back to homemaking".....I'm looking for new representatives if y'all know any.

The private insurance industry is on the list of legal businesses that are rackets. It is dragging the country down but they damn sure arn't going to get off that gravy train to save the US and they have convinced all the retarded hicks that nationalized healthcare == communism so we can't have that, we have to keep this piss-poor, piecemeal health "care" situation where the government pays more per capita for healthcare yet the government covers a fraction of the people.

... and they have convinced all the retarded hicks that nationalized healthcare == communism

Which is pretty astounding. You'd think even retarded hicks would realize that Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain and Japan aren't exactly communist states. Yet, all of those countries agree that universal health care coverage is a must.

Which is pretty astounding. You'd think even retarded hicks would realize that Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain and Japan aren't exactly communist states. Yet, all of those countries agree that universal health care coverage is a must.
You'd be surprised at what hicks, bumpkins, rubes, and yokels can "think." I have heard every one of those countries described as "communist" or "socialist" by idiots who I knew for a fact did not know what those words meant. It's fun to watch the looks on their faces when you confront them with their recent package tour vacations to one or more of those places and ask if the local people looked like they were all dying from lack of medical care.

The private insurance industry is on the list of legal businesses that are rackets. It is dragging the country down but they damn sure arn't going to get off that gravy train to save the US and they have convinced all the retarded hicks that nationalized healthcare == communism so we can't have that, we have to keep this piss-poor, piecemeal health "care" situation where the government pays more per capita for healthcare yet the government covers a fraction of the people.
I am starting to get the sense that a revolution along the lines of the French Revolution is going to be required to right size these over stuffed idiots. However, instead of lopping off their heads, they should have their wallets removed.

I am starting to get the sense that a revolution along the lines of the French Revolution is going to be required to right size these over stuffed idiots. However, instead of lopping off their heads, they should have their wallets removed.

...which would, of course, hurt them more. :)

Okay, a bunch of CEOs get together and
come up with these observations:
...
Your thoughts NSG?


Oh, surprise surprise: capitalists want something to remain a private business.
Cicero pro domo sua, I'd say.

In other news, water is wet!

I am starting to get the sense that a revolution along the lines of the French Revolution is going to be required to right size these over stuffed idiots. However, instead of lopping off their heads, they should have their wallets removed.

That is inhumane! It would cause them too much pain!

;)

This thread title was decpetive, I expected something like:

The CEOs of the Business Roundtable believe health care for U.S. workers could be soved by us all throwing in tumor dollars a year and stop being a bunch of assprin-holes.

The real solution isn't a joke, or even funny at all <_<

Anyone who is really honest with themselves, even conservatives, know that private health insurance is made of fail.

Well it isn't (at least in Australia) but then I would also be calling for the government to be providing medical benefits to its citizens. But then I am not to sure how the whole thing works in the US.

...which would, of course, hurt them more. :)
For sure....that is why I suggested it. :)

like anyone would willing suggest the solution to a problem is to convert their multimillion dollar a year jobs to a government 50k a year job.
(not an endorsement of health care btw)

You'd be surprised at what hicks, bumpkins, rubes, and yokels can "think." I have heard every one of those countries described as "communist" or "socialist" by idiots who I knew for a fact did not know what those words meant.
You know, the above mentioned truth is probably the biggest part of the problem, and it boggles the mind to think that many of them are deprived of what they need because of their mind set and/or lack of knowledge.

Isn't this exactly why the health care system in the US is broken?
What is the alternative? Waiting 5 hours in a Canadan-style emergency room just to get a diagnosis? What do you have against personal choice, anyway? Why do you hate freedom so much?

Well it isn't (at least in Australia) but then I would also be calling for the government to be providing medical benefits to its citizens. But then I am not to sure how the whole thing works in the US.

The private health insurance system in Australia is propped up, thanks to previous Howard ideology, by billions and billions of taxpayers money through the health insurance rebate.

For non-Australians, we do have universal healthcare. People over a certain income (now Aus$75,000 per year, as I recall) have to pay a tax surcharge. To encourage people to take up private health insurance, the previous Howard government introduced the rebate. At the last election, Rudd promised not to remove the rebate in order not to lose votes. Philosophically the Labor Party would rather abolish it.

The rebate is one enormous waste of money. It props up an inefficient industry and could be far better spent on improving health care directly.

What is the alternative? Waiting 5 hours in a Canadan-style emergency room just to get a diagnosis? What do you have against personal choice, anyway? Why do you hate freedom so much?

And how many Canadian hospitals have you been in to back your claim.

unless your joking that is.

And how many Canadian hospitals have you been in to back your claim.

unless your joking that is.
Hyperbole but the one person I do know who went to a Canadian hospital did have to wait several hours before being treated (yeah, I know anecdotal evidence is worth shit). To be fair, so did I when I got stabbed in the leg. Either we both have bad luck or the system sucks no matter where you go. Still, you never answered my question. Why do you Canuckistanis hate freedom so much?

Hyperbole but the one person I do know who went to a Canadian hospital did have to wait several hours before being treated (yeah, I know anecdotal evidence is worth shit). To be fair, so did I when I got stabbed in the leg. Either we both have bad luck or the system sucks no matter where you go. Still, you never answered my question. Why do you Canuckistanis hate freedom so much?

I'd like to give you another anecdotal account.
As someone might remember, last January I got a scratch on my eye. Went to the ophthalmic ER service here in Milan - and you all know Italy isn't exactly the dreamland of efficiency! - waited about one hour because the doc was already busy with the victim of a car crash, then I got treated.
Guess what: public hospital, and costed nothing because my injury was classified as ER-worthy.

Public health system can work quite fine.

Oy, before you even ask: I hate freedom because freedom won't let me be free to eat babies. ;)

What is the alternative? Waiting 5 hours in a Canadan-style emergency room just to get a diagnosis? What do you have against personal choice, anyway? Why do you hate freedom so much?

Never been to an American emergency room?

It certainly doesn't help that our system is currently so horribly hybridized that it hurts. If there were more market or more state involvement than there currently is, then the odds for change would be greater. Instead, we've got just the right mix for stagnation and stupid.

As far as I'm concerned, if a government and society is not focused on free education and health as basics then it's not doing its job.


The US Government hasn't been doing its job since 1950, where have you been?

The private insurance industry is on the list of legal businesses that are rackets. It is dragging the country down but they damn sure arn't going to get off that gravy train to save the US and they have convinced all the retarded hicks that nationalized healthcare == communism so we can't have that, we have to keep this piss-poor, piecemeal health "care" situation where the government pays more per capita for healthcare yet the government covers a fraction of the people.

I have a solution: Sentence all those private insurance bigwigs to death in absentia and send out the firing squads to hunt them down like the dogs they are. Seize 100% of their assets and put it towards single-payer.

..... Why do you Canuckistanis hate freedom so much?

What does having public healthcare have to do with freedom?

Hyperbole but the one person I do know who went to a Canadian hospital did have to wait several hours before being treated (yeah, I know anecdotal evidence is worth shit). To be fair, so did I when I got stabbed in the leg. Either we both have bad luck or the system sucks no matter where you go.

Stab wound have to wait after car crashes.
One word: triage.

Still, you never answered my question. Why do you Canuckistanis hate freedom so much?

Must be our pinko tendencies.

Stab wound have to wait after car crashes.
One word: triage.


Well... at the Hospital here its life threatening allergy to wasp stings after being attacked by an entire nest of yellow jackets and nearly unconscious has to wait for low grade fever, sprained ankle, mild concussion, and aching back.

Never been to an American emergency room?

That's what I don't get - I've waited longer in American waiting rooms than I've waited in UK waiting rooms, for equally 'emergency-ish' attention.

By the 'logic' that says we should accept some anecdote about... what was it, Canadian ER?... we can assume that the UK's healthcare system must be both cheaper AND better than the US one.

What is the alternative?
The alternative is obviously better than what the US has to offer?

Waiting 5 hours in a Canadan-style emergency room just to get a diagnosis?
IF you have a life threatening situation, you are not going to wait 5 hours.

What do you have against personal choice, anyway?
IF "personal choice" is going to result in a poorer healthcare system, then too bad so sad for me.

Why do you hate freedom so much?
You are the one who hates freedom?

FYI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_department#United_States):

Many U.S. emergency rooms are exceedingly busy. A survey of New York area doctors in February 2007 found that injuries and even deaths have been caused by excessive waits for hospital beds by ER patients.[3] A 2005 patient survey found an average ER wait time from 2.3 hours in Iowa to 5.0 hours in Arizona.[4]

One inspection of Los Angeles area hospitals by Congressional staff found the ERs operating at an average of 116% of capacity (meaning there were more patients than available treatment spaces) with insufficient beds to accommodate victims of a terrorist attack the size of the 2004 Madrid train bombings. Three of the five Level I trauma centers were on "diversion", meaning ambulances with all but the most severely injured patients were being directed elsewhere because the ER could not safely accommodate any more patients
And then some:

ER Wait Time Problems Widespread (http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3322309)

John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County in Chicago bears little resemblance to County General Hospital -- its fictional counterpart in the television series "ER."

Instead, a waiting patient may be reminded of the show "24," because patients can sometimes wait a full day to receive treatment, according to attending physician Dr. Robert Saqueton.
This is freedom?

WHAT!? :eek: You mean to tell me that Private Industry doesnt want to take Healthcare out of Private Industry's Hands!?!? :eek2:


I may die of shock....

Hyperbole but the one person I do know who went to a Canadian hospital did have to wait several hours before being treated (yeah, I know anecdotal evidence is worth shit). To be fair, so did I when I got stabbed in the leg. Either we both have bad luck or the system sucks no matter where you go. Still, you never answered my question. Why do you Canuckistanis hate freedom so much?

We're lazy communists who don't like to work. j/k

Honestly though, all of my experiences with the Canadian medical system have been fairly good. The only time I've ever had to wait hours for medical treatment was when I fractured my middle finger playing basketball back in middle school (took about 4-5 hours from me walking in to walking out, including doing an X-Ray and getting a splint thingy). Obviously if you've been stabbed, shot, are bleeding to death etc, they aren't going to just let you die in the waiting room. I have been hearing for quite some time though that Canada has a shortage of doctor's, but I don't know much about it. Overall I receive adequate care and I all I have to do is show the doctor my health card.

The thing nobody's ever explained to me is how Europeans smoke and drink far more than we do and yet not only have longer life expectancy overall but also lower incidence of cancer and massively higher survival rates for cancer while still paying significantly less for their healthcare than we do. So they're healthier, spend less on healthcare, and can somehow pursue evil, unhealthy behaviors with greater frequency without being affected anywhere near as severely as us...all while consuming fewer pharmaceuticals. So what's up?

Of course, such unpleasant facts get in the way of our beloved "public-private partnership"'s continued bilking of Americans so they're promptly disregarded.

The thing nobody's ever explained to me is how Europeans smoke and drink far more than we do and yet not only have longer life expectancy overall but also lower incidence of cancer and massively higher survival rates for cancer while still paying significantly less for their healthcare than we do. So they're healthier, spend less on healthcare, and can somehow pursue evil, unhealthy behaviors with greater frequency without being affected anywhere near as severely as us...all while consuming fewer pharmaceuticals. So what's up?

Of course, such unpleasant facts get in the way of our beloved "public-private partnership"'s continued bilking of Americans so they're promptly disregarded.

Magic and Sorcery, why else do you think there's no Americans in Harry Potter. Think about it.

:tongue:

Maybe it has to do with Euro-trash starting on the bottle at an early age. There oughta be a law that says all American children must get drunk once a week from 3 up. In a few years we'll know if it helps or just fucked over an entire generation, in which case I'll have something else to laugh at.

Maybe it has to do with Euro-trash starting on the bottle at an early age. There oughta be a law that says all American children must get drunk once a week from 3 up. In a few years we'll know if it helps or just fucked over an entire generation, in which case I'll have something else to laugh at.
Perhaps these facts will give you something to laugh about?

The Impact of Rising Health Care Costs (http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml)

National surveys show that the primary reason people are uninsured is the high cost of health insurance coverage.2

Economists have found that rising health care costs correlate to drops in health insurance coverage.8

A recent study by Harvard University researchers found that the average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed for bankruptcy was $12,000. The study noted that 68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses.9 Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem.

A new survey shows that more than 25 percent said that housing problems resulted from medical debt, including the inability to make rent or mortgage payments and the development of bad credit ratings.10

About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs. 11

A survey of Iowa consumers found that in order to cope with rising health insurance costs, 86 percent said they had cut back on how much they could save, and 44 percent said that they have cut back on food and heating expenses.12

Retiring elderly couples will need $250,000 in savings just to pay for the most basic medical coverage.13 Many experts believe that this figure is conservative and that $300,000 may be a more realistic number.
According to a recent report, the United States has $480 billion in excess spending each year in comparison to Western European nations that have universal health insurance coverage. The costs are mainly associated with excess administrative costs and poorer quality of care.14

The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than its peer Western European nations.14
Attacking Europeans would not appear to be the logical way to proceed with your argument?

Anyone who is really honest with themselves, even conservatives, know that private health insurance is made of fail.


Just watch how angry people get when we suggest that maybe veterens should just use their own private health insurance for workplace injuries.

fixed

Also shows how your comment, when made accurate, is applicable in this situation.