NationStates Jolt Archive

Dangerous Japanese 'Detergent Suicide' Technique Creeps Into U.S.
By Kevin Poulsen EmailMarch 13, 2009 | 3:55:34 PMCategories: Threats

Car_suicide_ca

A suicide technique that mixes household chemicals to produce a deadly hydrogen sulfide gas became a grisly fad in Japan last year. Now it's slowly seeping into the United States over the internet, according to emergency workers, who are alarmed at the potential for innocent causalities.

At least 500 Japanese men, women and children took their lives in the first half of 2008 by following instructions posted on Japanese websites, which describe how to mix bath sulfur with toilet bowl cleaner to create a poisonous gas. One site includes an application to calculate the correct portions of each ingredient based on room volume, along with a PDF download of a ready-made warning sign to alert neighbors and emergency workers to the deadly hazard.

The first sign that the technique was migrating to the United States came in August, when a 23-year-old California man was found dead in his car behind a Pasadena shopping center. The VW Beetle's doors were locked, the windows rolled up and a warning sign had been posted in one of the windows. Police and firefighters evacuated the shopping crew before a hazmat crew in chemical suits extracted the body and began cleaning up the grisly scene.

Then in December, emergency workers responding to a call at Lake Allatoona in Bartow County, Georgia, found a similar scene. Inside the car — along with the body — were two buckets containing a yellow substance. A note on the window said "Caution" and identified the chemical compound by name.

Nobody connected the cases until last month, when a Texas surgeon realized that a new and dangerous suicide method was making the rounds. Dr. Paul Pepe, chief of emergency medicine at UT Southwestern Medical Center, warned emergency workers that they could become innocent casualties of the technique if they're not careful. Other experts agree.

"The normal response for an EMS, is they're going to break open the window," says August Vernon, assistant coordinator for the Forsyth County Office of Emergency Management, who was consulted by the Department of Homeland Security on the danger this week. "And that's a pretty normal call: someone unconscious inside the car. Fortunately, those people left notes, which is pretty unusual and a good thing."

"Eventually," he adds, "someone isn't going to leave a note."

Continues here: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/03/japanese-deterg.html

I didn't get this when they started happening over here, but I understand it less back home. WTF is up with ya'll back in the states these days?

These Japanese imports are being done to death. :rolleyes:

Continues here: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/03/japanese-deterg.html

I didn't get this when they started happening over here, but I understand it less back home. WTF is up with ya'll back in the states these days?

People are looking for an easy, somewhat painless, way out presumably. Guns are costly, knives are painful, and pills sometimes just don't work before EMS teams get there. Gassing is a relatively easy way to go out by public perception I guess.

This probably won't spread too much. If I had to do chemistry to kill myself, I would give up.

This probably won't spread too much. If I had to do chemistry to kill myself, I would give up.

An interesting point. Someone will misread the directions and wake up 2 hours later hairless and purple. :)

An interesting point. Someone will misread the directions and wake up 2 hours later hairless and purple. :)

Speaking from personal experience I take it?

This probably won't spread too much. If I had to do chemistry to kill myself, I would give up.

Give up?

As in kill yourself?

Now we have us a conundrum...

Speaking from personal experience I take it?

Well, I couldn't commit suicide if my life depended on it, but chemistry is just one more avenue of silliness exploration to me.

If I had to do chemistry to kill myself, I would give up.
surely this (failure to kill yourself through chemistry) would be yet another thing to feel depressed about.

People are looking for an easy, somewhat painless, way out presumably. Guns are costly, knives are painful, and pills sometimes just don't work before EMS teams get there. Gassing is a relatively easy way to go out by public perception I guess.

That's what I don't get - hydrogen sulphide gas poisioning has got to be much more ghastly than most other "cheap" methods I could think of, not to mention very dangerous to others.

And, TPH, the "chemistry"'s not real complicated - pour a bottle of brand name household product A into a bucket of a bottle of brand name household product B and instant gas chamber...

That's what I don't get - hydrogen sulphide gas poisioning has got to be much more ghastly than most other "cheap" methods I could think of, not to mention very dangerous to others.
my thought as well. Surely it's pretty painful inhaling that shit. It'd burn.
In China, a common method is to seal all the doors and windows and light charcoal. CO poisoning would at least be painless.

Well, I couldn't commit suicide if my life depended on it

Oh that's easy. You just have to fail in committing suicide. Then you commit suicide anyway.

:tongue:

That's what I don't get - hydrogen sulphide gas poisioning has got to be much more ghastly than most other "cheap" methods I could think of, not to mention very dangerous to others.


I wouldn't know personally, not having breathed in that gas. Most of the other cheap methods involve overcoming some sort of fear though.

Oh that's easy. You just have to fail in committing suicide. Then you commit suicide anyway.

:tongue:

But if you try to commit suicide in order to save your life and you fail, thus dying, is it suicide?

my thought as well. Surely it's pretty painful inhaling that shit. It'd burn.
In China, a common method is to seal all the doors and windows and light charcoal. CO poisoning would at least be painless.

Indeed, not only does it burn but I can't imagine going to one's death in a cloud of rotten eggs could in anyway be considered peaceful.

CO's a big one here in Japan as well.

It's a pity that jumping into a volcano isn't more popular.

Indeed, not only does it burn but I can't imagine going to one's death in a cloud of rotten eggs could in anyway be considered peaceful.

CO's a big one here in Japan as well.

At 150-250 ppm the olfactory nerve is paralyzed after a few inhalations, and the sense of smell disappears, often together with awareness of danger,

You probably don't smell it if you've done it right

I wouldn't know personally, not having breathed in that gas. Most of the other cheap methods involve overcoming some sort of fear though.

I've had enough of a wiff of it from visiting hot spring areas...

It's a pity that jumping into a volcano isn't more popular.

:)

You probably don't smell it if you've done it right

Let's see... the CDC lists among the symptoms (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0337.html): irritation of the eyes and respiratory system, convulsions, eye pain, and lacrimation (discharge of tears)...

Let's see... the CDC lists among the symptoms (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0337.html): irritation of the eyes and respiratory system, convulsions, eye pain, and lacrimation (discharge of tears)...

Yup so I was right

[Note: Sense of smell becomes rapidly fatigued & can NOT be relied upon to warn of the continuous presence of H2S.

Continues here: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/03/japanese-deterg.html

I didn't get this when they started happening over here, but I understand it less back home. WTF is up with ya'll back in the states these days?

Killing themselves while watching Hentai on their Sony..Good thing they won the war...Sure ye have to laugh.

(Wonderfully inventive people, the Japanese..)

But if you try to commit suicide in order to save your life and you fail, thus dying, is it suicide?

It's a successful suicide. An important distinction LG.

Like the man who loaded his father's shotgun because he knew the old man frequently threatened his mum and wanted her gone but ended up depressed because she hadn't died yet and ended up jumping off a building only to be killed on the way down by the shotgun his dad was threatening his mum with with the same shells he loaded into the gun.

A successful suicide.

I've had enough of a wiff of it from visiting hot spring areas...

Ahhh, rotten eggs smell is it? After a while, you stop noticing it.

This probably won't spread too much. If I had to do chemistry to kill myself, I would give up.

Question being why not just use dry ice? It's CO2, you'd just drift off the sleep as the ice sublimates to gas and suffocates you.

Question being why not just use dry ice? It's CO2, you'd just drift off the sleep as the ice sublimates to gas and suffocates you.

Maybe the pain is an important part of the act for the suicidal person.

That's what I don't get - hydrogen sulphide gas poisioning has got to be much more ghastly than most other "cheap" methods I could think of, not to mention very dangerous to others.

And, TPH, the "chemistry"'s not real complicated - pour a bottle of brand name household product A into a bucket of a bottle of brand name household product B and instant gas chamber...
Why mix when I can down an entire bottle of drain declogger (sodium hydroxide)? No need to seal everything, less risk to others. The thing though, is that it's going to be nasty if they'll take a look at the internal organs. It would just be goo... but then, supposing I give a sh*t on how will I look in the casket, I'm not going to be exposing my melted esophagus anyway.

We used to say anyone who kills him/herself with hydrochloric acid/muriatic acid is st~pid because acid, though it burns, denatures proteins such that it leaves a layer of denatured protein that the acid will not be able to penetrate further (unless you consume large amounts of acid). Bases, on the other hand, just melt and denature all the way through.

PS. And oh, I've just read, mixing hydrochloric acid with sodium hypochlorite (common bleach) would produce chlorine gas. So that's why our floor cleaner says "do not mix with acids"... hmmmmm.....

Why mix when I can down an entire bottle of drain declogger (sodium hydroxide)? No need to seal everything, less risk to others. The thing though, is that it's going to be nasty if they'll take a look at the internal organs. It would just be goo... but then, supposing I give a sh*t on how will I look in the casket, I'm not going to be exposing my melted esophagus anyway.

We used to say anyone who kills him/herself with hydrochloric acid/muriatic acid is st~pid because acid, though it burns, denatures proteins such that it leaves a layer of denatured protein that the acid will not be able to penetrate further (unless you consume large amounts of acid). Bases, on the other hand, just melt and denature all the way through.

PS. And oh, I've just read, mixing hydrochloric acid with sodium hypochlorite (common bleach) would produce chlorine gas. So that's why our floor cleaner says "do not mix with acids"... hmmmmm.....

Mixing toilet bowl cleaner (phosphoric acid) with bleach (chlorine) reacts and absorbs all the oxygen in the air. That'll kill you really fast. Learned that at my first job.

Mixing toilet bowl cleaner (phosphoric acid) with bleach (chlorine) reacts and absorbs all the oxygen in the air. That'll kill you really fast. Learned that at my first job.

I don't think there is anyway bleach won't kill you.

I don't think there is anyway bleach won't kill you.

Household bleach is only .5-1% chlorine by volume. That's not enough to kill you unless you drink a fair bit of it. More than you'd probably want to choke down (Chlorine tastes salty). A nice, if rank smelling gas that simply stops you from breathing is a quick and painless death.

You don't want to be mixing that bleach with ammonia either.

You don't want to be mixing that bleach with ammonia either.

Mixing phosphoric acid with ammonia doesn't have a happy ending either. Pretty white cloud that feels like it's trying to suck your fucking eyes out while you slowly suffocate. Also if you survive it pretty well destroys your sense of smell/taste.

Mixing phosphoric acid with ammonia doesn't have a happy ending either. Pretty white cloud that feels like it's trying to suck your fucking eyes out while you slowly suffocate. Also if you survive it pretty well destroys your sense of smell/taste.

I can think of another household chemical that it is not advisable to mix with ammonia, though the gas would be produced with more of a bang.

Mixing phosphoric acid with ammonia doesn't have a happy ending either. Pretty white cloud that feels like it's trying to suck your fucking eyes out while you slowly suffocate. Also if you survive it pretty well destroys your sense of smell/taste.

You can accomplish a similar effect by watching 'Dancing With The Stars'. *nod*

You can accomplish a similar effect by watching 'Dancing With The Stars'. *nod*

I think you'd have to lack taste beforehand in that case.

Above a certain concentration, hydrogen sulfide actually anesthetizes your sense of smell. You smell rotten eggs at the lower concentrations - anything above that, and it's as lethal as breathing cyanide gas.

At lethal concentrations, you have 10 to 15 seconds of consciousness.

Question being why not just use dry ice? It's CO2, you'd just drift off the sleep as the ice sublimates to gas and suffocates you.

CO2 causes hyperventilation, you're better off with CO, as several folk mentioned, or nitrous oxide, might as well laugh your way to the next plane!

Above a certain concentration, hydrogen sulfide actually anesthetizes your sense of smell. You smell rotten eggs at the lower concentrations - anything above that, and it's as lethal as breathing cyanide gas.

At lethal concentrations, you have 10 to 15 seconds of consciousness.

Hmmm... 10-15 seconds conflicts with the assertation that's as leathal as cyanide. (Note that there's good reason for many states in the US to consider the cyanide gas chamber to be uncoinstitutionally cruel.)

I used 113 San Quentin Prison "Lethal Gas Chamber - Execution Records" to estimate the duration of consciousness and awareness of pain experienced by prisoners executed by hydrogen cyanide gas over the past 50 years. Estimations were based on notations completed by 31 prison physicians. Prison records indicated that average survival time is 9.3 minutes, including 1.6 minutes during which the prisoner is reported to be conscious. In contrast, my estimates also derived from the records coupled with the extensive medical literature on cyanide indicate that consciousness persists for almost 5 minutes. Prison estimates of time to certain unconciousness did not correlate with times to death. Additional comparisons show that physiologically-based estimates of minimum consciousness are not correlated with the original estimates from the prison forms. The persistence of consciousness and the pain of myocardial and skeletal muscle ischemia and tetany, induction of autonomic reflexes (e.g., drooling, defecating, emesis), and the terror of slow asphyxiation qualifies this form of execution as cruel and unusual. Physician involvement in executions is briefly discussed.
http://www.idiom.com/~drjohn/cyanide.html

And while the sense of smell is deadened at certain levels, the eyes and throat irritation isn't, AFAIK. And either way, you have to sit through the build up. Unless somebody can come up with a good trustworthy source that this is truelly a quick and painless death, I'm going to have to keep going with ghastly and painful.

And that's still not touching on the numerous other folks you may take with you to that nasty death...

This probably won't spread too much. If I had to do chemistry to kill myself, I would give up.

I'd rather die than kill myself with chemistry.




Wait, wat?

Maybe this form of suicide would be more popular if it worked more slowly and came in a convenient paper tube you could light the end of and inhale from.

Maybe this form of suicide would be more popular if it worked more slowly and came in a convenient paper tube you could light the end of and inhale from.

With a filter at the end, so you can pretend you're not really killing yourself.

I imagine that this method allows for some good puns in the suicide note. "Life used to be such a gas," or "I'm going to cleanse my existence from the Earth."
Hey, nobody said that suicide had to be pretty.

Could you just take lots of drugs? Mustard gas is not a pleasant way to go. Strange. Painless is relative I guess.

I am becoming disturbed at the way this thread disseminates suicide tips...

If you're going to do yourself in, I think you should try to be original. Maybe in the time it takes to think of an original way to die your cat will come back. It's not worth it to off yourself just because your cat ran away, anyhow.

I am becoming disturbed at the way this thread disseminates suicide tips...

Oh, I'm sure most people already know about Dancing With The Stars. *nod*

And of course, the premium imported Japanese brand of detergent for do-it-yourself-gas-chambering:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/shalashashka/Image%20Host/mr_sparkle.jpg

Best way to go:

You first need piano wire and superglue. After setting a noose with the wire high enough off the ground so that it'd decapitate you, place it over your neck and then you superglue your hands to the side of your head, then jump.

You now appear to have ripped your own head off.

Best way to go:

You first need piano wire and superglue. After setting a noose with the wire high enough off the ground so that it'd decapitate you, place it over your neck and then you superglue your hands to the side of your head, then jump.

You now appear to have ripped your own head off.

After that, I'm going to have to agree with Kyronea...