NationStates Jolt Archive

How's this for an idea...

Every U.S. citizen who has held the title on a domestic car for at least three years can trade that vehicle in (one vehicle per person). The vehicle they recieve will be a domestically produced hybrid vehicle. The difference in cost after the trade in of the old vehicle will be covered in full by the US government.

Auto-makers get to build cars, and hopefully stop reducing their workforce.

Older, inefficent cars get off the road, and can be recycled for other uses.

Citizens get more efficient cars, freeing up more of their income for other purposes.

The government no longer simply throws money at a failing business...they pay for a product.

...obvoiusly lots of little details to be worked out with such an idea, but I think it's a hell of a lot better option than what's been tried so far.

What say you, NSG?

I didn't like the 'buy American' parts of the stimulus and I don't like the 'buy American' parts of this. I am concerned that this would prompt other countries to hinder the import of American produced goods and simply shift economic woe from one industry to others.

well i think part of what's needed here is a real incentive for automakers in the u.s. to make cars people in the u.s. want to buy. the fact that they don't is the reason they're in trouble and this is the way capitolism is supposed to work. you make crap people won't buy, you fail.

the excuse they make is that the places that make the cars, or whatever, people DO want to buy, or so they claim, are only able to do so because those places have a decent health care system america lacks.

it's pretty obvious, if there's anything to this contention besides hot air, and i happen to feel very strongly that there is, if anything, this is an argument in favor of single payer, or some equivelant other then continuing to worship a totally self serving health insurance industry.

another aspect of this, in wwII, automaker retooled to make tanks and other products for that effort. the same could be done for public transit vehicules with a shift in transportation policy toward increasing the public transportation part of it.

general motors, as i've mentioned before, already has a division, electro-motive, or emd, its called, that makes somewhere arround half or more then half, of the standard gauge railway locomotives used in the western hemisphere.

but there's no reason all of the automakers, couldn't get in on manufacturing mini-van sized multiple unit vehicules to run on narrow gauge railways, that could replace much if not most, of the functionallity people are currently being economically coerced into indenturing themselves to having their own private vehicules for.

apparently they want the SUV's now
http://www.wsoctv.com/automotive/17945476/detail.html#-
GM doesnt have enough workers to meet demand.

apparently they want the SUV's now
http://www.wsoctv.com/automotive/17945476/detail.html#-
GM doesnt have enough workers to meet demand.

/thread- America should make cars America is good at making, like SUVs.

/thread- America should make cars America is good at making, like SUVs.

while i don't agree with the SUV bailout.
alot of the failing was gas prices and then the banking issue.
Both unpredictable by GM.

/thread- America should make cars America is good at making, like SUVs.
but are real people actually buying them, or wanting to? and if so, why arn't they hiring instead of shutting down. no, this logic does not fallow.

and are american automakers REALLY THAT good at even suv's?

again in think nissan, toyota and even the brittish land rover are a superior product.

once upon a time there used to be a company called willies that made nothing but jeeps and jeep type vehicules, including a pretty classy suburban station wagon, the wagoneer, in their last decade(s) of production.

in case anyone's never heard of them, i believe they got first merged into crypsler when they started going belly up as an indipendent, and then crypsler, either they still make a few, or they ended up having to drop the line entirely, as the case might be.

no, the suv, in america, has just be an attempted endrun arround the idea of polution controls and deadlines for implimenting standards and so on. and which is precisely how american automakers got themselves into the insolvent situation they find, or claim to have found, themselves in.

while i don't agree with the SUV bailout.
alot of the failing was gas prices and then the banking issue.
Both unpredictable by GM.

Well I wouldn't go as far as to say GM shouldn't be broken up and sold for scrap. It would definitely let newcomers and smaller companies into the automaking game and bring back the pre-Big 3 era.

apparently they want the SUV's now
http://www.wsoctv.com/automotive/17945476/detail.html#-
GM doesnt have enough workers to meet demand.

/thread

The real problem with the hybrid and fuel efficient cars is the American populace is very fickle, and change tastes with price of fuel...

sickens me the idiocy of it, tell you the truth...

but are real people actually buying them, or wanting to? and if so, why arn't they hiring instead of shutting down. no, this logic does not fallow.
Read the link. The Russkies are buying them. Russkies are real people too.


and are american automakers REALLY THAT good at even suv's?

That's why we have profit-loss mechanisms to answer your rhetorical questions. When people stop buying the American SUVs, then the American SUV plants can shut down.

no, the suv, in america, has just be an attempted endrun arround the idea of polution controls and deadlines for implimenting standards and so on. and which is precisely how american automakers got themselves into the insolvent situation they find, or claim to have found, themselves in.
No, American automakers are insolvent largely because a 30-year debt-fueled asset bubble (the largest in the history of mankind) just burst. This is the same reason many European automakers are insolvent too, and why the Asian automakers are also ailing.

and isn't this asset bubble burst saying something in the much larger sense i keep pointing to?

i think people are pretending to not see the pile of stink infront of their noses because of all their lives having been brainwashed into emotional attatchment to it.

and isn't this asset bubble burst saying something in the much larger sense i keep pointing to?

i think people are pretending to not see the pile of stink infront of their noses because of all their lives having been brainwashed into emotional attatchment to it.
I'm not sure what you've been pointing to, too much vagaries (and maybe I agree with these vagaries). The bubble burst indicates that central banking and government interventions destabilize the economy and create bubbles where no bubbles previously existed.

When people realize this, they will reject the love of government that they've been brainwashed into emotional attachment for.

i still think we auto be making little trains instead.

apparently they want the SUV's now
http://www.wsoctv.com/automotive/17945476/detail.html#-
GM doesnt have enough workers to meet demand.

That proves Americans are too goddamned stupid to live.

Just for once I'd like to hear an idea that DOESN'T involve the Government having to come up with a shitload of money to make it work.

Just for once I'd like to hear an idea that DOESN'T involve the Government having to come up with a shitload of money to make it work.

the government gives me 10 million. it will work. it is not a shit load of money

The problem is that it isn't physically possible to produce enough hybrids to meet that kind of demand. Secondly, the US automakers have been so goddamn stupid that they have yet to produce anything resembling the hybrids manufactured by Toyota or Honda so you'd maybe be getting a marginal boost in fuel economy while simply propagating another generation of SUVs and trucks.

Of course, considering the Asian automakers are the ones actually investing in the US automotive industry rather than sourcing parts from overseas, I'd say they're going to be the domestic automakers in a few years anyways...

Oh, nice. Except I'd let competition sort it out. They can buy any hybrid cars manufactured in the US. If the US companies can't make a real go at getting vehicles to the American people, then the American people will be going to the companies that can make them. This would encourage new companies to be erected and it would encourage foreign companies already good at making hybrids to increase their factory output here. More jobs. More movement. And a move toward the future. And it wouldn't necessarily cost all that much more than the current bailout. The difference would be the results are much better.

I like the whole 'buy American' concept, and much of what the OP said, however I would define outsourcing jobs as treason while I am at it. Also I would use the anti-trust laws to break up the Big 3 automakers, so you would not have autocompanies that are 'too big to fail'.

How's this for an idea...

Every U.S. citizen who has held the title on a domestic car for at least three years can trade that vehicle in (one vehicle per person). The vehicle they recieve will be a domestically produced hybrid vehicle. The difference in cost after the trade in of the old vehicle will be covered in full by the US government.

Auto-makers get to build cars, and hopefully stop reducing their workforce.

Older, inefficent cars get off the road, and can be recycled for other uses.

Citizens get more efficient cars, freeing up more of their income for other purposes.

The government no longer simply throws money at a failing business...they pay for a product.

...obvoiusly lots of little details to be worked out with such an idea, but I think it's a hell of a lot better option than what's been tried so far.

What say you, NSG?

There's two problems I see with this.

First is the trades. You'll have dealerships flooded with traded in cars, and there just won't be a demand for them. It could very well force some dealerships to close because it will be a loss no matter what since they had to put the money up for a trade in.

This brings me to the recycling part. If the companies scrapped the cars they took on a trade, they would lose thousands on each car as well. A scrap car only brings in $200-$500 depending on weight, catalytic converter type, and if it has aluminum wheels or not.

Not to mention the scrap market would be flooded then since China isn't buying much because they aren't producing much.

How's this for an idea...

Every U.S. citizen who has held the title on a domestic car for at least three years can trade that vehicle in (one vehicle per person).

Why? My Hyundai was assembled in Alabama. My father's Toyota was assembled in Kentucky. My mother's Dodge was assembled in Mexico. Seems "domestic" doesn't mean much any more.

Just for once I'd like to hear an idea that DOESN'T involve the Government having to come up with a shitload of money to make it work.

We wait out the depression? I mean, just throwing it out there.

Maybe the auto companies should be bailing out the government instead. Shake those fuckers down. Liquidate them. Workers of the world, unite!