NationStates Jolt Archive

Are there people who still use "God intended" arguments? It seems like they're extremely useless as they are easily refuted.

On miscegenation,

Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.

This could be transformed to:

Almighty God created separate continents. The fact that he separated the continents shows that he did not intend for the men to associate between separate continents.


On technology,

If God intended for us to fly, he would have given us wings.

Another matter of substitution:

If God intended for us to live in colder climates, he would have given us fur.


And so forth. Alternatively, are there good "God intended" arguments?

If God intended us to look at naked women doing naughty thing he'd have created the internet.


We had to wait for the Swiss and the Americans to do it! *grumbles about that lazy god*

If God intended us to look at naked women doing naughty thing he'd have created the internet.


We had to wait for the Swiss and the Americans to do it! *grumbles about that lazy god*
no no no...it's like when you were 12 and had to go digging through the basement to find your dads playboy...or when you had to sneak off with your moms victoria secret catalog and return it before she noticed. One must work for their reward.

If God just handed us the internet, we would have just overdone it with foolishness like www.bitchmakemeasandwich.com , www.facebook.com , and www.nationstates.net . Now aren't you glad that never happened?

No, there is no good argument involving God, unless that God is Him (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarianism).

no no no...it's like when you were 12 and had to go digging through the basement to find your dads playboy...or when you had to sneak off with your moms victoria secret catalog and return it before she noticed. One must work for their reward.

If God just handed us the internet, we would have just overdone it with foolishness like www.bitchmakemeasandwich.com , www.facebook.com , and www.nationstates.net . Now aren't you glad that never happened?

I am overjoyed that the first one is a real website.

I am overjoyed that the first one is a real website.

I checked too. :p

In reference to the OP:

I always counter it with "If God hadn't wanted us to use our brains, he wouldn't have made them so big."

If God intended for us to believe in him, he wouldn't rely on douchebags to be his spokes-persons; he would manifest himself before everyone.

I always counter it with "If God hadn't wanted us to use our brains, he wouldn't have made them so big."

If God hadn't wanted us to become fat, he wouldn't have made snacks taste so good.

I am overjoyed that the first one is a real website.

if you have a female friend who just broke up with her boyfriend, I don't recommend loading that website onto her iphone and making it so that is the first thing she will see when she checks to see if he's called her yet...

If God hadn't wanted us to become fat, he wouldn't have made snacks taste so good.

But we invented the snacks that taste so good.

With our huge brains...

If God had intended for us to have threads about what God had intended he wouldn't have given us better things to do with our time.

If God had intended for us to have threads about what God had intended he wouldn't have given us better things to do with our time.

But... I don't have anything better to do...

And so forth. Alternatively, are there good "God intended" arguments?
If God intended for us to have sex, there wouldn't be STD's.

If God intended for us to be blind and stupid, he wouldn't have provided us with brains and a sense of curiosity.

if God wanted us to listen to every preachy Evangelical and hold them as the truth, he wouldn't have created Fred Phelps and the WBC.

If God did not intend for us to (go into space, fly, marry other races, go atheist, ect) why would he have given us the knowledge and capability to do so?

But... I don't have anything better to do...
If God had intended for you not to have anything better to do, than he would have intended for you to post on a thread about what God had inten ... ded ... you post ... better are ... do ...

Let's try that again:
If God had intended for you to not do anything that God had intended for you to do that was better than posting on a thread about what God had intended for you to do when he gave you the intentions ...

No, ok.
If God had intended for this post to make sense, he wouldn't have made me so easily confused.

If God had wanted us to waste our precious time talking about meaningless crap with total strangers, he would have invented NS.

If God had wanted us to waste our precious time talking about meaningless crap with total strangers, he would have invented NS.

Therefore:

Max is God?

QED

"If God wanted us intelligent, then the effects of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge would've lasted a hell of a lot longer!"

If God hadn't intended me to stare into mirrors, He wouldn't have made me so damn good looking.

If God intended for us to have sex, there wouldn't be STD's.

If God didn't iintend for men to have ass sex, he wouldn't have... something about prostates.

If God intended mothers to have children, he wouldn't have made pregnancy and childbirth so painful.


if God wanted us to listen to every preachy Evangelical and hold them as the truth, he wouldn't have created Fred Phelps and the WBC.

But he is the truth. If God intended people to be gay, he wouldn't have allowed men to create gay stereotypes and made them so repulsive :mp5:

If God intended for us to believe in him, he wouldn't have allowed Darwin to write On the Origin of Species.

If god had intended us to have free-will, he wouldn't have made the choices 'Obey-me-in-every-detail' or 'burn-in-hell-fat-pig'.

Maybe?

If god had intended us to have free-will, he wouldn't have made the choices 'Obey-me-in-every-detail' or 'burn-in-hell-fat-pig'.

Maybe?

This pretty much defines the faith.

This pretty much defines the faith.

Not every faith.

Not every faith.

Ah, but if god had intended us to believe by faith, he wouldn't have provided any evidence of his existence at all, no?

Ah, but if god had intended us to believe by faith, he wouldn't have provided any evidence of his existence at all, no?

Well, according to most people here, he didn't.

"I've always figured that if God wanted us to go to church a lot He'd have given us bigger behinds to sit on and smaller heads to think with." - P.J. O'Rourke

I've told one of my friends 'If God intended for you to have dredlocks, He wouldn't have made you a white guy.'

Let's see - if God had actually intended anyone to read the Bible as a serious work, he wouldn't have written it in Hebrew (a dead language until @ 1948), Greek and Aramaic and then allowed it to be subjected to bad translations and paraphrases.

If God needed humans to defend him, than athiests wouldn't be the only ones posting in this thread

Let's see - if God had actually intended anyone to read the Bible as a serious work, he wouldn't have written it in Hebrew (a dead language until @ 1948), Greek and Aramaic and then allowed it to be subjected to bad translations and paraphrases.

I love how athiests grab on to little untrue tidbits that other Athiests spout and claim it as truth with no actual basis.

Hebrew was never a dead language. The idea that it remained dead for thousands of years and then suddenly in 1948 there was a whole nation that instantly knew this dead lanquage is absolutely ludacris.

and then when the dead sea scrolls where found they debunct the "bad translation theory," where comparing modern translations to the oldest known text the translations were 99.9% accurate with the only discrepancy having to refer to spelling.

If God needed humans to defend him, than athiests wouldn't be the only ones posting in this thread

So, why are you here?

no no no...it's like when you were 12 and had to go digging through the basement to find your dads playboy...or when you had to sneak off with your moms victoria secret catalog and return it before she noticed. One must work for their reward.

If God just handed us the internet, we would have just overdone it with foolishness like www.bitchmakemeasandwich.com , www.facebook.com , and www.nationstates.net . Now aren't you glad that never happened?

We're in good company, I see

So, why are you here?

Tarsonis is obviously an Atheist. QED.

I think it's safe to extrapolate Tarsonis' stance on Christianity based on his faith in the infalliable Good Book QED.

I think it's safe to extrapolate Tarsonis' stance on Christianity based on his faith in the infalliable Good Book QED.

Tarsonis said, in this thread, that only Atheists are posting in this thread, therefore, logically, Tarsonis is outing him (her?) self as an Atheist.

I think it's safe to extrapolate Tarsonis' stance on Christianity based on his faith in the infalliable Good Book QED.

But.... but, he/she said that the only people here were atheists, so, logically, that means he/she must be an atheist since he/she is here. Please don't confuse me.

If God had wanted us to be naked, we'd be born that way!
Oh, wait...

Tarsonis said, in this thread, that only Atheists are posting in this thread, therefore, logically, Tarsonis is outing him (her?) self as an Atheist.

But.... but, he/she said that the only people here were atheists, so, logically, that means he/she must be an atheist since he/she is here. Please don't confuse me.

The whole point of this thread was to mock the phrase "If God intended." One can assume that he has validated the phrase, referring to himself as the non-atheist who posts in this thread.

Damn philosophy majors :sniper:


I love how athiests grab on to little untrue tidbits that other Athiests spout and claim it as truth with no actual basis.

What he said is clearly an un-atheist position that defends the historical accuracy of the Bible, which I would assume is contrary to atheist belief.

The whole point of this thread was to mock the phrase "If God intended." One can assume that he has validated the phrase, referring to himself as the non-atheist who posts in this thread.

Damn philosophy majors :sniper:




What he said is clearly an un-atheist position that defends the historical accuracy of the Bible, which I would assume is contrary to atheist belief.

If god had wanted us to believe that the Bible was a historically accurate account, he wouldn't have designed it to conflict with so much of the actual history.

If god had wanted us to believe that the Bible was a historically accurate account, he wouldn't have designed it to conflict with so much of the actual history.

Nor would he/she/it/they have included so many inherent inconsistencies and contradictions.

If god had wanted us to believe that the Bible was a historically accurate account, he wouldn't have designed it to conflict with so much of the actual history.

Nor would he/she/it/they have included so many inherent inconsistencies and contradictions.

That's why there's a compatibility mode for modern day Christians to get around this problem.

Actually my comment was more of a sarcastic one, illustrating the age old notion that only flies are attracted to poo. You're title alone, can be percieved as attacking religion in general, and now a days most conservative religionists have learned to stay away from such threads, because it really is an excercise in futility to argure with people over religion. I for one am against forced attrition, and normally I don't cut down atheists. God gives every man or woman, or invited transgender species, the ability to chose and think for himself, freewill. In essence letting us go about our intentions. Therefore the very idea of Freewill debunks any "If God intended" notion, because we are consumed by our own will and not God's will, therefore we can have no real knowledge of Gods intentions, and therefore No one can claim Gods intentions as an argument. (Yeah I aced Philosophy) I came to this thread to actually agree with the OP because he is infact right, however i should have been prepared for the responses of the age old argument, that "Religion is for those who can't think for themselves."

Of course, any person who commits their lifes, or believes in something beyond their ownself, is a dupe, moron, imbecile, for a real man who thinks and follows science has faith in nothing, and deafens himself to Gods voice. Funny how that was mentioned in the bible. I don't pretend to know the Word inside and out, I don't pretend to be a Master of Religiosity (thankyou Colbert for that word... i think). However I am a man of faith and I'm not one to sit around while my intelligence is insulted because I believe in a world beyond this one.

Nothing posted in this thread is new to me. It's the same Athiest Anti-Christian Idealogy thats been spouted for ages by the...I think count is now 1.6 million Athiests. Now I have nothing against athiests, Several of my Good friends are Athiests. But what puts them above people in this thread is they don't look down on people of faith. Now we have are fair share of arguments this is true, but our arguments always seem to come from a place of mutual respect and civil disagreement.

Now if most threads on NS regarding religion were conducted in a similar manner, Flamming would probably reduce to a whopping 0.01% and we could actually follow along with the Age old philosophy that we argue and discuss to find Truth. Instead it's now to "PWN the NOOBS LOL" and conteract your own self loathing by making other people, who probably have never cause you harm in the first place, feel inferior about something they believe in. If any of the people on NS got together for a Debate it would devolve into blows in a matter of minutes. It's funny what people will say with out fear of repricutions from others.

If god had wanted us to believe that the Bible was a historically accurate account, he wouldn't have designed it to conflict with so much of the actual history.

Conflict how, Seeing as much of it takes place before concrete evidence of history take place. All we have is artifacts of that time, and writings, and carbon dating, and even Carbon dating can be off by a measure of about 6 years.

Is it the Roman Census that the Emperor Tiberius sent out? Which happened in around 4 BC: Which explains why the Chirst child was born in bethlehem not nazzerus in 3 BC (callender is off by 3 years) and I think its Venus, Saturn and Mars(could be wrong on which planets it was) alligned thus making the phenomenon of the "Bright Yonder Star" In the Sky in which the Wiseman Followed. Oh wait thats right, its possible they never existed. So by that logic, if the mere Possiblitiy that they didn't exist, exists...then its obvious that they didn't exist. For nothing ever happened unless theres concrete evidence that it happened. Well I guess the tree doesn't make a sound.

Or is it Pontious Pilots own writings in which he depicts the trial and sentence of one Iesus Nazarenus Rex Ideorum. See your going off old arguments. The "Did Jesus actually Exist?" arguement has been debunct but people still try to use it. Funny. The arguement has changed its now, "We know the man existed and was influential, but was he devine? Discuss."

Oh what other history does it conflict with? Nebacannezzers conquests? The Israel Exodus, which happened under Pharoh Ramases II and was concidered one of the first in a long chain of events that brought down the greatness of the Egyption Empire? Or Noah's arc even, that actually coincides with a Commet impact in the Indian Ocean of the Coast of Africa, that actually Flooded the entire Middle East and most of the Known world at the time? A little bit of Devils advocate here... God Told Noah he was going to destroy the World. However is a World always a planet? Is a Planet a world if it has no life? God flooded the known world. Doesn't mean that he flooded the ENTIRE Earth. He only had to flood where people are. Oh and the Idea that teh World was created 6000 years ago, is not a belief held by alot of people.

See this is my point, you sit and listen to other athiests spout stuff, and just accept it as truth cause, "hey I agree with you." Don't blame yourself, its problem that plagues most believers too. Investigate, and draw your own conclussions. If at that point you still don't believe in God, or believe Judeo Christian philosophy is a complete fabrication? Then God bless you. But until then, don't you dare sit there in your bubble of Ignorance and call me a sheep.

You're title alone, can be percieved as attacking religion in general,

I'm very religious.


God gives every man or woman, or invited transgender species, the ability to chose and think for himself, freewill. In essence letting us go about our intentions. Therefore the very idea of Freewill debunks any "If God intended" notion, because we are consumed by our own will and not God's will, therefore we can have no real knowledge of Gods intentions, and therefore No one can claim Gods intentions as an argument. (Yeah I aced Philosophy) I came to this thread to actually agree with the OP because he is infact right, however i should have been prepared for the responses of the age old argument, that "Religion is for those who can't think for themselves."

You don't have to be prepared to respond to anything if you know that there is no point in arguing with atheists over the age-old argument.


Of course, any person who commits their lifes, or believes in something beyond their ownself, is a dupe, moron, imbecile, for a real man who thinks and follows science has faith in nothing, and deafens himself to Gods voice. Funny how that was mentioned in the bible. I don't pretend to know the Word inside and out, I don't pretend to be a Master of Religiosity (thankyou Colbert for that word... i think). However I am a man of faith and I'm not one to sit around while my intelligence is insulted because I believe in a world beyond this one.

It's better to sit around and stick to your faith because you already know how the age-old arguments usually turn out. Some things will never change, such as diversity in opinion.


Investigate, and draw your own conclussions. If at that point you still don't believe in God, or believe Judeo Christian philosophy is a complete fabrication? Then God bless you. But until then, don't you dare sit there in your bubble of Ignorance and call me a sheep.

I think you're being a little butthurt over this issue. Nobody has called anybody a sheep. They probably already have drawn conclusions about the concept of infalliability in the literal interpretation of holy texts through their own inquiries into religion.

Besides, faith has never been about authenticity and research. Any definite proof of the Word will defeat the purpose of free will and "God intended" arguments.

Is it the Roman Census that the Emperor Tiberius sent out? Which happened in around 4 BC

Are you quite sure you are the right person to lecture others about history?


and I think its Venus, Saturn and Mars(could be wrong on which planets it was) alligned thus making the phenomenon of the "Bright Yonder Star" In the Sky in which the Wiseman Followed.

How does anyone 'follow' a conjugation of the planets? Just keep travelling until they are directly overhead? Did these wise men have access to supersonic camels?


The Israel Exodus, which happened under Pharoh Ramases II and was concidered one of the first in a long chain of events that brought down the greatness of the Egyption Empire?

Unless, of course, it never took place at all. Funny how a momentous event like the plagues of Egypt could happen, and yet go totally unrecorded.

Seriously, you are making a pretty reasonable point about the atheist vs Christian bickering that happens on this forum. But you can't just cherry-pick bits from the history books and draw conclusions like: 'Look, there might possibly have been a flood there some time. That proves Noah's Ark was real!'

Alternatively, are there good "God intended" arguments?

Yes.

If God would have wanted us to be morons who believe whatever we're told by self-appointed authorities, he woulnd't have given us a mind.

If God wouldn't have wanted us to masturbate, he would have placed our genitals outside of our hands' reach.

If God wouldn't have wanted us to have sex for pleasure, he would have made it painful.

Is it the Roman Census that the Emperor Tiberius sent out?

It wasn't Tiberius. It was Augustus.

the Chirst child was born in bethlehem not nazzerus in 3 BC (callender is off by 3 years)
Nazareth. Calender. And not by 3 years iirc.

Brace yourself for the next one...


Or is it Pontious Pilots own writings in which he depicts the trial and sentence of one Iesus Nazarenus Rex Ideorum.

PONTIOUS PILOT? Who's that, a guy driving a Pontiac?
REX IDEORUM? King of the male ideas?

Pontius Pilatus (Pontius Pilate in english). Rex Iudaeorum.

Really, you should read the Bible a bit more accurately! :D

...lotsa snippie...

So, basically, you are saying "Because my beliefs are based on what I believe to be true facts, my beliefs must be true".
What a novel idea...

If God had intended us to take showers he would have made our armpits face upwards

Conflict how, Seeing as much of it takes place before concrete evidence of history take place. All we have is artifacts of that time, and writings, and carbon dating, and even Carbon dating can be off by a measure of about 6 years.

Is it the Roman Census that the Emperor Tiberius sent out? Which happened in around 4 BC: Which explains why the Chirst child was born in bethlehem not nazzerus in 3 BC (callender is off by 3 years) and I think its Venus, Saturn and Mars(could be wrong on which planets it was) alligned thus making the phenomenon of the "Bright Yonder Star" In the Sky in which the Wiseman Followed. Oh wait thats right, its possible they never existed. So by that logic, if the mere Possiblitiy that they didn't exist, exists...then its obvious that they didn't exist. For nothing ever happened unless theres concrete evidence that it happened. Well I guess the tree doesn't make a sound.

Or is it Pontious Pilots own writings in which he depicts the trial and sentence of one Iesus Nazarenus Rex Ideorum. See your going off old arguments. The "Did Jesus actually Exist?" arguement has been debunct but people still try to use it. Funny. The arguement has changed its now, "We know the man existed and was influential, but was he devine? Discuss."

Oh what other history does it conflict with? Nebacannezzers conquests? The Israel Exodus, which happened under Pharoh Ramases II and was concidered one of the first in a long chain of events that brought down the greatness of the Egyption Empire? Or Noah's arc even, that actually coincides with a Commet impact in the Indian Ocean of the Coast of Africa, that actually Flooded the entire Middle East and most of the Known world at the time? A little bit of Devils advocate here... God Told Noah he was going to destroy the World. However is a World always a planet? Is a Planet a world if it has no life? God flooded the known world. Doesn't mean that he flooded the ENTIRE Earth. He only had to flood where people are. Oh and the Idea that teh World was created 6000 years ago, is not a belief held by alot of people.

See this is my point, you sit and listen to other athiests spout stuff, and just accept it as truth cause, "hey I agree with you." Don't blame yourself, its problem that plagues most believers too. Investigate, and draw your own conclussions. If at that point you still don't believe in God, or believe Judeo Christian philosophy is a complete fabrication? Then God bless you. But until then, don't you dare sit there in your bubble of Ignorance and call me a sheep.

Well said.

Tarsonis, you're really a genius when it comes to self-inflicted sarcasm.
Actually my comment was more of a sarcastic one, illustrating the age old notion that only flies are attracted to poo.
So, since I was attracted by this thread because it had "God" in its title, by your own "age-old notion" God is poo and I'm a fly, I'd guess.

This makes me a lot more religious than you, also.

If God wouldn't have wanted us to have sex for pleasure, he would have made it painful.

Sometimes it is, especially after the handcuffs, whips, and chains come into play.

Sometimes it is, especially after the handcuffs, whips, and chains come into play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNhpyunhx-c

If God had not intended for men to fuck me, he wouldn't have given me a ....


wait a second... that doesn't work for me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNhpyunhx-c

For linking me a Queen video, I damn you to the fate of people only talking to you by saying "If God wanted us to...." until the end of your days.

For linking me a Queen video, I damn you to the fate of people only talking to you by saying "If God wanted us to...." until the end of your days.

No problem.

18.I, being thy LORD, always know
19.what I really meant when I, being Me Myself,
20.did something. And, in the unlikely case I didn't,
21.I being Me Myself thy LORD (hello it's Me again,
22.the One Who Likes To Speak In Quotes),
23.I could alter the past easily.

Here, done. Have a biscuit.

If God intended us to be vegetarians, he wouldnt have made animals out of meat.

If God intended for us to believe in him, he wouldn't rely on douchebags to be his spokes-persons; he would manifest himself before everyone.

But what about Jesus and Virgin Mary appearing in our foods and clothing stains?

I love how athiests grab on to little untrue tidbits that other Athiests spout and claim it as truth with no actual basis.

Hebrew was never a dead language. The idea that it remained dead for thousands of years and then suddenly in 1948 there was a whole nation that instantly knew this dead lanquage is absolutely ludacris.

and then when the dead sea scrolls where found they debunct the "bad translation theory," where comparing modern translations to the oldest known text the translations were 99.9% accurate with the only discrepancy having to refer to spelling.

Got anything (beside religious sources) to back this up?

If God intended us to be vegetarians, he wouldnt have made animals out of meat.

Bacon, FTW!

If God intended us to be vegetarians, he wouldnt have made animals out of meat.

Would he have made them out of plants instead?

Investigate, and draw your own conclussions. If at that point you still don't believe in God, or believe Judeo Christian philosophy is a complete fabrication? Then God bless you. But until then, don't you dare sit there in your bubble of Ignorance and call me a sheep.

Since your clearly fond of investigating, do yourself a favor and take an in depth astronomy class. Once you have an actual technical knowledge of how extraordinarily insignificant we are, you should realize that "God" clearly has more important things to worry about then us. Entire galaxys are colliding and vaporizing with explosions with energys of billions of our own suns. Entire solar systems are sucked up by black holes and simply removed from known existence. And your focusing on if God made it rain on a tiny planet for a few weeks? Please. We are nothing.

If god intended for us to have free will, then she couldn't possibly be omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient.

If God intended for us to question Him, then He would have given us a direct line.

Since your clearly fond of investigating, do yourself a favor and take an in depth astronomy class. Once you have an actual technical knowledge of how extraordinarily insignificant we are, you should realize that "God" clearly has more important things to worry about then us. Entire galaxys are colliding and vaporizing with explosions with energys of billions of our own suns. Entire solar systems are sucked up by black holes and simply removed from known existence. And your focusing on if God made it rain on a tiny planet for a few weeks? Please. We are nothing.

Only if you define significance with 'size'. If we are the only intelligent life in the entire vastness of the universe, then the simple fact that we continue to exist in such a violently dangerous galaxy despite our frailties is... significant at the very least.

Not that I'm religious in the slightest.

Only if you define significance with 'size'. If we are the only intelligent life in the entire vastness of the universe, then the simple fact that we continue to exist in such a violently dangerous galaxy despite our frailties is... significant at the very least..

Thats a really big If. In my opinion, other life in some form is a virtual mathematical certainty and its probably far more likely that there are virtually infinite planets with life then none at all but noone really knows. But since humans at this stage of our development have such incredibly limited perception we will probably never know the truth.

Frankly, if a comet or disease hits the earth and kills humanity before it develops the ability to live on other planets then even humanity could go away in a cosmic blink of an eye. A good sized rock hits us and the earths outer mantle boils and there is never a clue we existed ever. Its happened before. We are nothing.

But what about Jesus and Virgin Mary appearing in our foods and clothing stains?

If someone really wants to see it, then they can allow themselves to believe that they see it. It's like any optical illusion. If you stare at it long enough, your mind will begin to play tricks on you, allowing you to see something more than just what is presented.

Thats a really big If. In my opinion, other life in some form is a virtual mathematical certainty and its probably far more likely that there are virtually infinite planets with life then none at all but noone really knows. But since humans at this stage of our development have such incredibly limited perception we will probably never know the truth.

Frankly, if a comet or a disease hits the earth and kills humanity before it develops the ability to live on other planets then even humanity could go away in a cosmic blink of an eye. Again ,we are nothing.

When you consider that vast swathes of this galaxy are uninhabitable by default, the likelihood of life developing elsewhere dwindles, regardless of the mathematical nonsense of the Drake equation. Intelligent life is even more improbable, unless you are of the camp which believes that intelligence is the 'natural destination' of evolution - which in my eyes, is a lot more unbelievable than anything Creationists can come up with.

I'd hardly call our existence 'nothing', even if we aren't alone in the universe. Our frailty and size do nothing to diminish our importance and uniqueness.

I'd hardly call our existence 'nothing', even if we aren't alone in the universe. Our frailty and size do nothing to diminish our importance and uniqueness.

Its self importance, and arrogance. A mere 600 rotations of the earth around the sun ago we were still convinced the universe revolved around us.

Intelligent life is even more improbable, unless you are of the camp which believes that intelligence is the 'natural destination' of evolution - which in my eyes, is a lot more unbelievable than anything Creationists can come up with.

I obviously don't believe that anything is the "natural destination" of evolution since evolution by its very nature has no destination, but intelligence is not something that should be considered uncommon to evolution, since it enables us as a species to do so much. Evolution, as it were, is concerned with making species best suited to their environment, and intelligence isn't a bad way to go about it.

Its self importance, and arrogance. A mere 600 rotations of the earth around the sun ago we were still convinced the universe revolved around us.
Blame evolution. Besides, you can't fault the scientists at the time for thinking that. It makes sense, from their pov.

I

Blame evolution. Besides, you can't fault the scientists at the time for thinking that. It makes sense, from their pov.

Agreed, but doesnt "We are the only living things in the Universe and we are created in Gods image and we are special" smack of the exact same arrogance as" The Universe revolves around the Earth" ?

Its self importance, and arrogance. A mere 600 rotations of the earth around the sun ago we were still convinced the universe revolved around us.

Until there's any evidence to the contrary that self-importance is well-founded. For all we know we could be the only creatures in existence capable of appreciating the difficult conditions that need to be met for life to form at all, the nigh-on miraculous conditions required for that life to survive long enough to evolve into anything of note, and the bizarre singularity of our rise to intelligence. And again, until some zombie aliens from outer space pop by to say hello, we could also be the only species extant capable of appreciating the loss that would result from us, and our thousands of years worth of culture and civilisation, being destroyed in an instant.

I'm only pointing out that calling us 'nothing' because we aren't very big and can die easily is a bit on the self-deprecating side.

Evolution, as it were, is concerned with making species best suited to their environment, and intelligence isn't a bad way to go about it.

Intelligence helped us due to some very unique circumstances. In a million years time, the apex predator on Earth could end up being a gigantic slug capable of resisting extremes of climate and temperature, and able to metabolise virtually any material it came into contact with.

You folks might like to read up on the anthropic cosmological principle as outlined by Barrow and Tipler.

If someone really wants to see it, then they can allow themselves to believe that they see it. It's like any optical illusion. If you stare at it long enough, your mind will begin to play tricks on you, allowing you to see something more than just what is presented.

I was just kidding, but thanks for that piece of information. :)

If God intended for us to question Him, then He would have given us a direct line.

No. I, being Myself, engineered the universe to put NSG into existance. It's better than a direct line.

Intelligence helped us due to some very unique circumstances. In a million years time, the apex predator on Earth could end up being a gigantic slug capable of resisting extremes of climate and temperature, and able to metabolise virtually any material it came into contact with.

I never said intelligence was the only way a species could evolve to best cope with its environment, just that it seems to have turned out to be a pretty good way.

Agreed, but doesnt "We are the only living things in the Universe and we are created in Gods image and we are special" smack of the exact same arrogance as" The Universe revolves around the Earth" ?
In some ways yes, but we are special. Not just us, but every single living thing. There are trillions of atoms in our bodies, none of which are even a little alive, and yet when you take a few basic, common elements and throw them together, you get something that can sit here right now and actually think about how amazing it is that life comes from non-life. Billions of different processes take place in me every second, each integral to my continued survival, and yet these processes generally work so well that I don't even have to consider how unlikely it is that every single one of them will continue to function in the exact order that they need to for me to survive.

I don't believe that there is a God involved, personally, but given the level of detail and intricacies that go into even a mundane existence here on planet Earth, I can't really fault those who bring Him in to explain things.

"Humanity is a small existence" is not an argument against God. Perhaps there are other intelligent life forms out there, and God only revealed the "truths" relevant to us.

If God hadn't intended humanity to be so fucked up she wouldn't have gotten stoned just before creating us.

Since your clearly fond of investigating, do yourself a favor and take an in depth astronomy class. Once you have an actual technical knowledge of how extraordinarily insignificant we are, you should realize that "God" clearly has more important things to worry about then us. Entire galaxys are colliding and vaporizing with explosions with energys of billions of our own suns. Entire solar systems are sucked up by black holes and simply removed from known existence. And your focusing on if God made it rain on a tiny planet for a few weeks? Please. We are nothing.

And this is based on your own limitations being placed on God. If you truely tried to understand the nature of God, your own mind would jump out your head, give you the finger, and head to vegas. The bible teaches that God is all knowing, all seeing, all powerful, and all present. He is everywhere at once, communicates with all life, hears every prayer. How is that possible? I have no freakin clue. In fact? NO ONE DOES. And this very simple concept that it is impossible for our feeble minds to wrap around his existance is one of the very reasons he gets to be called GOD!

... The bible teaches that God is all knowing, all seeing, all powerful, and all present. He is everywhere at once, communicates with all life, hears every prayer. How is that possible? I have no freakin clue. In fact? NO ONE DOES. ...

And is actually logically impossible as well!

And this is based on your own limitations being placed on God. If you truely tried to understand the nature of God, your own mind would jump out your head, give you the finger, and head to vegas. The bible teaches that God is all knowing, all seeing, all powerful, and all present. He is everywhere at once, communicates with all life, hears every prayer. How is that possible? I have no freakin clue. In fact? NO ONE DOES. And this very simple concept that it is impossible for our feeble minds to wrap around his existance is one of the very reasons he gets to be called GOD!

All the more reason why you shouldn't use human convention to validate religion by using petty "historical examples" to show why the Bible is in fact correct and truly the word of God.

Seriously, you're making it much too easy for atheists to bash religion. Not everybody is fanatical as Christians. The Quran warns against fanaticism (which ironically have been "skipped" by the so-called Islamisist)


And is actually logically impossible as well!

How so? The existence of ghosts, spirits and non-corpreal beings have yet to be disproven, so it is not logically impossible. Maybe God is an ideal, a non-physical concept which only exists in the domain of our conscience, which could explain how God is compatible with those attributes given to Him/Her/it.

Religion is intentionally undisprovable by conventional science, unless you're saying that the human conscience is completely explained by science.

My friend, if you would like the Hand of Mod to remove this divergence to a different location, so that we can discuss it without hijacking the hell out of this relatively good-natured little thread, I'd be more than glad to join you there, and respond to your arguments with the degree of regard that they deserve.

I don't intend to make a big deal, here, though... this thread really isn't the place for that argument.

Conflict how, Seeing as much of it takes place before concrete evidence of history take place. All we have is artifacts of that time, and writings, and carbon dating, and even Carbon dating can be off by a measure of about 6 years.

Is it the Roman Census that the Emperor Tiberius sent out? Which happened in around 4 BC: Which explains why the Chirst child was born in bethlehem not nazzerus in 3 BC (callender is off by 3 years) and I think its Venus, Saturn and Mars(could be wrong on which planets it was) alligned thus making the phenomenon of the "Bright Yonder Star" In the Sky in which the Wiseman Followed. Oh wait thats right, its possible they never existed. So by that logic, if the mere Possiblitiy that they didn't exist, exists...then its obvious that they didn't exist. For nothing ever happened unless theres concrete evidence that it happened. Well I guess the tree doesn't make a sound.

Or is it Pontious Pilots own writings in which he depicts the trial and sentence of one Iesus Nazarenus Rex Ideorum. See your going off old arguments. The "Did Jesus actually Exist?" arguement has been debunct but people still try to use it. Funny. The arguement has changed its now, "We know the man existed and was influential, but was he devine? Discuss."

Oh what other history does it conflict with? Nebacannezzers conquests? The Israel Exodus, which happened under Pharoh Ramases II and was concidered one of the first in a long chain of events that brought down the greatness of the Egyption Empire? Or Noah's arc even, that actually coincides with a Commet impact in the Indian Ocean of the Coast of Africa, that actually Flooded the entire Middle East and most of the Known world at the time? A little bit of Devils advocate here... God Told Noah he was going to destroy the World. However is a World always a planet? Is a Planet a world if it has no life? God flooded the known world. Doesn't mean that he flooded the ENTIRE Earth. He only had to flood where people are. Oh and the Idea that teh World was created 6000 years ago, is not a belief held by alot of people.

See this is my point, you sit and listen to other athiests spout stuff, and just accept it as truth cause, "hey I agree with you." Don't blame yourself, its problem that plagues most believers too. Investigate, and draw your own conclussions. If at that point you still don't believe in God, or believe Judeo Christian philosophy is a complete fabrication? Then God bless you. But until then, don't you dare sit there in your bubble of Ignorance and call me a sheep.

I feel, in the interests of full disclosure, that I should at least inform you (before you trot off to have such a thread split from this one) that I was a believer, two decades ago, and that I've spent twenty-something years 'investigating' and 'drawing my own conclusions' to arrive where I am today.

I didn't accuse you of being a sheep, and I had the courtesy not to accuse you of a bubble of ignorance. You might want to think about why you would speak to someone in such a fashion.

Actually my comment was more of a sarcastic one, illustrating the age old notion that only flies are attracted to poo.

Remember, you are excusing why you were in this thread?

You realise what you just said, yes?

And this is based on your own limitations being placed on God. If you truely tried to understand the nature of God, your own mind would jump out your head, give you the finger, and head to vegas. The bible teaches that God is all knowing, all seeing, all powerful, and all present. He is everywhere at once, communicates with all life, hears every prayer. How is that possible? I have no freakin clue. In fact? NO ONE DOES. And this very simple concept that it is impossible for our feeble minds to wrap around his existance is one of the very reasons he gets to be called GOD!

That's the beauty of the deus ex machina. You can make all the claims you like, because you're not going to be held accountable.

If God intended for us to believe in him, he wouldn't rely on douchebags to be his spokes-persons; he would manifest himself before everyone.

Ah, but god is very shy. Everyone knows that, the guys a virtual hermit. He hasn't left the house since the time those kids beat him up, he's scared of his own shadow now. Poor thing.

Are there people who still use "God intended" arguments? It seems like they're extremely useless as they are easily refuted.

Alternatively, are there good "God intended" arguments?
If God had not intended us to use our intelligence and free will to think for ourselves and decide for ourselves, he would not have given us either intelligence or free will.

If he did not intend for us to discover evolution, he would not have left lovely fossils around for us to find.

If he did not intend the internet to be for porn, there would be none. Ergo, if there is porn on the net, it's because God intended it!

If he did not intend the internet to be for porn, there would be none. Ergo, if there is porn on the net, it's because God intended it!
so my frenzied masturbation to internet pron is God's will, then?
awesome.
"fap one off for Jesus!"

If God had not intended us to use our intelligence and free will to think for ourselves and decide for ourselves, he would not have given us either intelligence or free will.

If he did not intend for us to discover evolution, he would not have left lovely fossils around for us to find.

If he did not intend the internet to be for porn, there would be none. Ergo, if there is porn on the net, it's because God intended it!

If God did not intend for anybody to be murdered, he would not have given us intelligence, free will, and the tools to do so.

If God did not intend for rape, he would not have given us the free will and means to do so.

Ah, but god is very shy. Everyone knows that, the guys a virtual hermit. He hasn't left the house since the time those kids beat him up, he's scared of his own shadow now. Poor thing.

No, actually I'm here on NSG (no need to leave My house anyway), and I'm waiting for believers with questions I like to answer. I wonder why the believers who recognise Me whenever I manifest Myself are always so few. Meh. Time for another alteration of reality.

if God had intended to win more followers through evangelists, he wouldn't have made so many of them pig-headed, holier-than-thou arseholes who know less of the Bible than many 5 year olds that I know.

I always counter it with "If God hadn't wanted us to eat our brains, he wouldn't have made them so tasty."Fixed.
I suppose i should mention the amount of pregnancies not carried to term, lost sperm, lost eggs, et cetera ...

If God intended for us to live in colder climates, he would have given us fur.Yes, i live in Alaska. Perhaps, time for a field trip. There's plenty o'male fur 'round here.