NationStates Jolt Archive

Theoretical situation, since I don't have money :( :

I want to improve civilization with the best bang for buck. Which cause should I donate to?

Please see poll.

Please see poll.

...

...

The thread is posted first, then the OPoster makes the poll, hence the delay.

Spend it on your family. That's your blood, you have to look out for them first before you worry about strangers.

Donate to me. I am a poor college student. And i will pay you back unlike those other charities your looking at.

Donate to your local animal shelter. I've been volunteering at the local cat shelter, and they do need alot of stuff.

Plus, who doesn't want to help out puppies and kittens without home?

Do you hate puppies and kittens?

The thread is posted first, then the OPoster makes the poll, hence the delay.

Ideally, the OPoster will decide on his/her poll options in better than 20 minutes, though, surely. ;)

Do you hate puppies and kittens?

I do like puppies(and dogs, I have three)but I'm completely indifferent to cats. Cats are furry little sociopaths. They're the lap dancers of the animal world.

I do like puppies(and dogs, I have three)but I'm completely indifferent to cats. Cats are furry little sociopaths. They're the lap dancers of the animal world.

Oh please, my cat only pays attention to me when she wants something. Any other time, she ignores me. Now the Golden Retriever we used to have. He craved human attention, he would be content with you petting him all day long if you could.

If you're looking to get the best value for your dollar in terms of reducing misery and suffering, hunger or disease-related charities are probably where you want to go. Saving the opera or funding an SPCA director's pay raise can't really compare.

Oh please, my cat only pays attention to me when she wants something. Any other time, she ignores me.

Isn't that exactly what he said? Cats please you for cash (treats, here) like a lap dancer.

Isn't that exactly what he said? Cats please you for cash (treats, here) like a lap dancer.

Sorry, it is 3 in the morning for me lol.

Since you didn't have an "other" option, I voted for the divider. I like charities that make low and no interest micro-loans to small business here and abroad - you can do this at Whole Foods Market.

If you don't want to give to the local animal shelter, then Doctors Without Borders!

Since you didn't have an "other" option, I voted for the divider. I like charities that make low and no interest micro-loans to small business here and abroad - you can do this at Whole Foods Market.

I am not aware of this sort of charity, is there a specific name? The closest thing I can recall is community investment groups who help small businesses, but aren't really considered charities.

I was going to put "investment" as an option, but I didn't think a donation should have returns.

I am not aware of this sort of charity, is there a specific name? The closest thing I can recall is community investment groups who help small businesses, but aren't really considered charities.

I was going to put "investment" as an option, but I didn't think a donation should have returns.

The ones she's talking about don't have returns. The originators of those micro-loan programs famously won the Nobel Peace Prize a few years back. They're considered to be very effective. It's pretty cool.

The ones she's talking about don't have returns. The originators of those micro-loan programs famously won the Nobel Peace Prize a few years back. They're considered to be very effective. It's pretty cool.

Now it's sounding more familiar, it doesn't have anything to do with African small-business owners does it? It was a topic in my diploma reading test.

I am not aware of this sort of charity, is there a specific name? The closest thing I can recall is community investment groups who help small businesses, but aren't really considered charities.

I was going to put "investment" as an option, but I didn't think a donation should have returns.

The specific charity is called Whole Planet. It's sponsored by Whole Foods Market. You, specifically, would not get any tangible return on the investment. Small business owners here and in other countries would get microloans to help capitalize their businesses. When the loan is paid back, the money is loaned out again to other small business owners. These small business are usually local and deal in local products for local production, like the African woman whose family was starving and homeless until she received one of these loans to help her start a business making and selling roasted chick peas - I think the loan was a matter of $400 - her business is successful and she can now support her family, including sending her kids to school.

Yeah, the micro-loan program is pretty good idea. I have some friends who work with that in Rwanda, helping people get set up.

hey a micro loan would be great for me. no need to go outside the country.

Go here, to The Animal Rescue Site (http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3&link=ctg_ars_home_from_ars_thankyou_leftnav_logo) and click. It is free.

Then go on through the links, and click to give against Hunger, for Litteracy, for Childrens Health, for the Rainforest, and Breast Cancer.

They cost you nothing save a few moments of your time and help so many.

The Christmahanikwanzikah Institute for Painfully Broke College Students.

>.>

Theoretical situation, since I don't have money :( :

I want to improve civilization with the best bang for buck. Which cause should I donate to?

Please see poll.

Most of the above. However, if you must prioritize, I would suggest doing so in the following order:

1. Helping your friends and family, if they need it. Simply because its wrong to abandon those closest to us.

2. Research, if I may take that option to mean developing new technologies and infrastructure. See my post in the other saving the world thread for why.

3. Help to third world nations. Just a matter of giving the money where its needed most.

4. The local charities, arts and culture, and environmentalism (just please don't donate to PETA). Actually I'd rate environmentalism higher, except that you can help environmentalism by supporting "green" technologies (covered in number two), and by helping third world nations develope alternatives to the harmful exploitation of their natural resources (covered in number three).

5. Personal luxuries. Obviously you shouldn't deprive yourself of anything you really need (and people will differ on what this includes). Just remember that their are others who need it more. Of course, we are pretty much all guilty of spending more on ourselves than we should. I know I am.

Really, I put this option at the bottom partly as a way to flip the proverbial finger at the Ayn Rand fanboys.;)

Of course, others will disagree with some or all of the above, and these are all worthy causes. In the end, you need to do the research yourself, then use your best judegement to send the money where you feel it is needed most.

following order of things to donate too.

Greed and Death college fund(because, a greedy mind is a terrible thing to waste)
then bank bail outs.
then Africa.
then some save the rain forest crap in Brazil.

Then go on through the links, and click to give against Hunger, for Litteracy, for Childrens Health, for the Rainforest, and Breast Cancer.

I'm not sure if it's ironic or not that you misspelled 'literacy.' If I've misspelled it, than that is definitely ironic. Speaking of, I once saw a sign that read 'Illiterate? Call this number ______ and we can help!'

I give to local, more often my time than my money because my time proves more valuable. If you really want to help out Kahn you don't have to have money :)

Since you didn't have an "other" option, I voted for the divider. I like charities that make low and no interest micro-loans to small business here and abroad - you can do this at Whole Foods Market.
this is my suggestion also.

there are also charities that will take your money to pay for a free goat for an african family. that one little goat can change their lives completely.

I reject the idea of "most bang for the buck". There are lots of worthy causes out there, and the best way to decide where your money (or time, as others have pointed out) is to find an organization that moves/makes sense to you personally.

I want to improve civilization with the best bang for buck. Which cause should I donate to?

This; http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=f2bfab46cb118010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD&plt=STJGENSEGOOGL0000005&gclid=CJrN3P-2pZkCFSQMDQodS33kqA

I'll be sending them $ 100.00 when I get the proceeds from the sale of my house in the next few weeks.

Honestly I think you really can't go wrong for the most part, as long as the charity is reputable and trustworthy.

Ira.

Try living better. It doesn't require you to have money. Reduce the amount of waste you produce, reuse what you can't avoid using, and recycle what you can't reuse. Don't be a dickhead to the people around you...go on and talk to strangers, especially neighbours. Volunteer somewhere local. Buy local. Freecycle. All of these things help and very well may get you pussy.

very well may get you pussy.

Which, ultimately, is the main reason you should do anything:D

Which, ultimately, is the main reason you should do anything:D
Sex is a powerful motivation, and it's refreshing when people admit to becoming an activist/vegan/volunteer/cop/robber/artist/musician/world_leader to get laid.

Try living better. It doesn't require you to have money. Reduce the amount of waste you produce, reuse what you can't avoid using, and recycle what you can't reuse. Don't be a dickhead to the people around you...go on and talk to strangers, especially neighbours. Volunteer somewhere local. Buy local. Freecycle. All of these things help and very well may get you pussy.

In my community, recycling and composting is essentially compulsory, since the garbage service and the organic waste service alternates every week. I have a car, but I park it at the depot to commute to campus. Being a dog owner means that socialization is inevitable.

However buying local is not a viable option. Southern grown produce is cheaper, higher quality, and Alberta doesn't have locally produced seafood. I also eat out a lot during the week because I don't stay home often.

Buying local is a nice ideal, but it's simply not possible where I live. I once went to the local farmer's market, and they didn't display food handling licenses. No thanks, I'd rather buy corporate.

Used clothes and outphased house decor goes to Goodwill/Salvation Army/shelters. Hazardous and eWaste goes to special waste facilities.

Freecycling is also pretty redundant, because there's absolutely nothing usable in the things I dispose of. Why else would I throw something away :confused:


Lets get back to topic, micro-loan charities sound like a really neat idea. Volunteering also seems like something to do during the summer.

Sex is a powerful motivation, and it's refreshing when people admit to becoming an activist/vegan/volunteer/cop/robber/artist/musician/world_leader to get laid.

I hope you're being sarcastic. Being a college student, sex/relationships are the last things I should be considering.

I hope you're being sarcastic. Being a college student, sex/relationships are the last things I should be considering.

What college in Hell do you go to? :confused:

I hope you're being sarcastic. Being a college student, sex/relationships are the last things I should be considering.
if not now, then WHEN?

I hope you're being sarcastic. Being a college student, sex/relationships are the last things I should be considering.

I praise your dedication to being a student. :hail:

But. wow :eek::eek2: Id go crazy like that.

What college in hell do you go to? :confused:

I am guessing U of A but i don't know wait for her to respond.

Move to Australia, get your name in the White Pages, and wait until I call you so you can donate to the charity I work for. Not only will you be helping disabled children, you'll also be stimulating the economy by helping me keep my job!

It's a win-win!

You know that donating time is usually more constructive than donating money? I donated 2 hours of my time to a charity and raised $300 in that time...

You know that donating time is usually more constructive than donating money? I donated 2 hours of my time to a charity and raised $300 in that time...

but if you were working for yourself, you would have got 150 dollars an hour.

but if you were working for yourself, you would have got 150 dollars an hour.

I do work for myself, I charge right around $15-50 an hour depending on what the job and who my client is. Work is scarce, between my part time 'real job' and my business I didn't even earn minimum wage. I'm not going to make up a false charity and petition people to give money to it if thats what your saying.

Spend it on your family. That's your blood, you have to look out for them first before you worry about strangers.

Yes.

I do work for myself, I charge right around $15-50 an hour depending on what the job and who my client is. Work is scarce, between my part time 'real job' and my business I didn't even earn minimum wage. I'm not going to make up a false charity and petition people to give money to it if thats what your saying.

I wasn't thinking of that. but you know you just gave me a great idea to make money.

I wasn't thinking of that. but you know you just gave me a great idea to make money.

Probably the same idea I came up with a long time ago. Although if your thought is to "make" money by reducing your tax liability by "donating" to charity. You better be careful how you do it. :wink:

Probably the same idea I came up with a long time ago. Although if your thought is to "make" money by reducing your tax liability by "donating" to charity. You better be careful how you do it. :wink:

i was thinking of misspelling united negro college fund, as Me gro college fund. as in watch me Grow up. then using that money to pay for college.

as for donating to lower tax burden i have never had enough to spare to get past the basic exemption.
Never mind my Accountant called and said its way too much paperwork, and my lawyer called and mentioned something about going to jail if i try.

In my community, recycling and composting is essentially compulsory, since the garbage service and the organic waste service alternates every week. I have a car, but I park it at the depot to commute to campus. Being a dog owner means that socialization is inevitable.

However buying local is not a viable option. Southern grown produce is cheaper, higher quality, and Alberta doesn't have locally produced seafood. I also eat out a lot during the week because I don't stay home often.

Okay, first of all, I'm also an Albertan. During the winter, buying locally grown produce is obviously not really an option. Being landlocked, seafood is never going to be local. But that's not all I'm talking about. There do exist these amazing things that aren't big box stores...shockingly in Alberta there are still 'homegrown' businesses. Need a tune up? Don't go to the fucking Kal-Tire...use the service of a non-franchise, local mechanic. Support local bookstores instead of Chapters. Etc, etc. When I mean buy locak, I'm not just talking about food.

Buying local is a nice ideal, but it's simply not possible where I live. Bullshit.

I once went to the local farmer's market, and they didn't display food handling licenses. No thanks, I'd rather buy corporate. You DO know that farmer's markets in Alberta are highly regulated, yes? Do you have any idea how many hoops you have to jump through in order to slaughter a cow that you've raised in order to sell the meat commercially? A metric fuckload, that's how many. Perhaps, instead of making assumptions about how it works, you should, I don't know...look into it more? Not to mention food is not all you'll find at farmer's markets.

Used clothes and outphased house decor goes to Goodwill/Salvation Army/shelters. Hazardous and eWaste goes to special waste facilities. Good.

Freecycling is also pretty redundant, because there's absolutely nothing usable in the things I dispose of. Why else would I throw something away :confused: You don't seem to understand what freecycling is. You have a coffee table you no longer need? Trade it for a lamp you DO need. No one wants your shit, but they may want something that is still usable that you no longer need, in exchange for something you might find useful.


Lets get back to topic, micro-loan charities sound like a really neat idea. Volunteering also seems like something to do during the summer.
Let's get back to topic? Oh, pardon me, I didn't realise I'd strayed so far from your quest to feel better about yourself by giving money to charities one day in the future when you have disposable income. I was lulled into believing you might actually want to accomplish something real, and achievable now. My mistake.
I hope you're being sarcastic. Being a college student, sex/relationships are the last things I should be considering.
You're right. You should refrain. More pussy for the rest of us.

i hope you're being sarcastic. Being a college student, sex/relationships are the last things i should be considering.

lmao

lmao
Inorite? It's pretty much ALL I've thought about during both my degrees. Um, and all during high school and junior high and sort of into elementary school.

There do exist these amazing things that aren't big box stores...shockingly in Alberta there are still 'homegrown' businesses. Need a tune up? Don't go to the fucking Kal-Tire...use the service of a non-franchise, local mechanic. Support local bookstores instead of Chapters. Etc, etc. When I mean buy locak, I'm not just talking about food.

My car dealer does free maintainence and oil. I've never been to a Kal-tire, but I've also never been to a local mechanic (because my car hasn't broken down since I got it).

I'll give you a portion of my non-food shopping list. Since you're obviously more knowledgable in the local market, please tell me where I can buy these locally produced goods:

- toothpaste
- toilet paper
- quality spring coat
- white 100% cotton shirts for the gym
- this month's bestseller
- textbooks for my next semester
- fluorescent tubes
- table lamp
- the latest albums in classical music

Alternatively, how many everyday things that are non-food related can you buy locally?


Bullshit.

Is the computer you're using to type this Canadian made? Are your clothes made in Alberta? Is your shelter made from all Canadian lumber?

I'm saying that being fanatical about going local, as in obtaining most of my goods that is locally produced, is not a viable lifestyle option for many people.


You DO know that farmer's markets in Alberta are highly regulated, yes? Do you have any idea how many hoops you have to jump through in order to slaughter a cow that you've raised in order to sell the meat commercially? A metric fuckload, that's how many. Perhaps, instead of making assumptions about how it works, you should, I don't know...look into it more? Not to mention food is not all you'll find at farmer's markets.

My mistake, vendors are highly trained in food handling, as opposed to those corporate greedy pigs who cut corners everywhere.

I've worked in the food industry for half my life, and I know how to handle food. A vendor who leaves some pre-made food in saran wrap under direct sunlight is not good food handling. A vendor who washes their hands with bar soap and dries it on their shirt is not safe practice.

However there is a farmer's market in the Salisbury greenhouse, which is close to where I live. My mother goes there to pick up small crafts and ornaments, so I guess I can support the local economy by buying similar goods.


It's mostly a matter of comfort and economy when I buy corporate/transcontinental. Maybe when transportation fees reach sky high with depleting oil supply or government intervention, people will find business incentive to produce locally. Until then, I will have to make do with stashes of Chinese made instant ramen.

* I seem to have gotten a wrong impression of your point, where you were emphasizing local merchants. Although I usually go to whichever store has cheaper goods, I don't mind being a regular at a few non-corporate owned shops where the shopkeepers are usually better mannered. That's a plus to buying local.


You don't seem to understand what freecycling is. You have a coffee table you no longer need? Trade it for a lamp you DO need. No one wants your shit, but they may want something that is still usable that you no longer need, in exchange for something you might find useful.

Like I said, I don't dispose of anything that isn't useable. I don't think I have ever thrown away a table. I'm also not fond of bartering, since I'm sort of a warranty/QC freak.

I know that when I graduate, I'm going to live in a condo, so I'm more inclined to use less materials and furniture, never mind the lack of gardening that's associated with owning a garden!


Let's get back to topic? Oh, pardon me, I didn't realise I'd strayed so far from your quest to feel better about yourself by giving money to charities one day in the future when you have disposable income. I was lulled into believing you might actually want to accomplish something real, and achievable now. My mistake.

Yes, pardon you. Who said I'm giving to charity to make myself feel good? Smugness is not inevitably associated with making noble efforts to help those less fortunate than us. The topic was "which type of charity would help the world the most," not "how do I improve on my outlandish and wasteful lifestyle?"

I would have asked "is there anything else I can do besides giving to charity," if I wanted such advices. The university gives enough lectures on those already.


You're right. You should refrain. More pussy for the rest of us.

You're right. Women find people with that kind of attitude towards pussy extremely hawt. I'm not saying that IMMA ROBOT SECKS IS ILLOGICAL HURR, I just have a different lifestyle.


Inorite? It's pretty much ALL I've thought about during both my degrees. Um, and all during high school and junior high and sort of into elementary school.

If you had lots of sex during your academic career, and you had no regrets or exceedingly distracting drama, I guess more power to you.

I personally would rather finish my degree and get a steady career before considering such complications of life, so I can study hard to go overseas.

My car dealer does free maintainence and oil. I've never been to a Kal-tire, but I've also never been to a local mechanic (because my car hasn't broken down since I got it).

I'll give you a portion of my non-food shopping list. Since you're obviously more knowledgable in the local market, please tell me where I can buy these locally produced goods:

- toothpaste
- toilet paper
- quality spring coat
- white 100% cotton shirts for the gym
- this month's bestseller
- textbooks for my next semester
- fluorescent tubes
- table lamp
- the latest albums in classical music


Alternatively, how many everyday things that are non-food related can you buy locally? Fuck I hate lazy people. Especially obstinately lazy people.

You're Alberta, haven't mentioned where you live, so I'm going to pretend you live in Edmonton. First of all, 'local' does not only mean 'locally produced'. Nonetheless if you want fair trade goods, or sustainably produced and locally provided by locally owned businesses...

Earth's General Store
Address: 10832 Whyte Avenue

You can get your toothpaste and your toilet paper here. You can also buy (in bulk or otherwise) laundry detergent, handmade soaps/shampoos/conditioners, dish soap, white 100% cotton shirts (or hemp, or bamboo), all sorts of low wattage bulbs etc. This place has a huge variety of fair trade/bio-friendly products, and as many as possible are locally made. This store also uses its profits to fund educational programs and is involved in a lot of grassroots activism in the community.

Greenwoods (http://www.greenwoods.com/) is an independent Canadian bookstore. You can get your bestseller here, AND your textbooks (you'll need to order them...oddly enough I got my International Trade Law and Refugee Law texts for 40% cheaper than at the Uni bookstore, those price-raising fuckers). Other independent bookstores include: Audrey's (http://www.audreys.ca/), Alhambra, and the Wee Book Inn (used). There are a tonne of other independent bookstores throughout the city.

As for a spring coat...depends on what you're looking for. There are many independent boutiques, with local designers who actually make their own clothes. Nokomis (http://www.nokomisclothing.ca/), Red Ribbon, Maggie Walt, Kaj, Gnuda, etc etc etc etc etc.

A table lamp? The Junk Cellar is a great place for such things. Again, depends on what you're looking for. Old Hippy Wood Products has lamps, bookshelves, cabinets, etc...pretty much anything that can be built out of wood.

The Gramaphone (http://www.gramophone.ca/) would be the place to go for your classical music needs.

I'm annoyed at how little effort you apparently actually put into educating yourself, or bothering to buy locally. Instead, you reject it outright. THIS is why I bring it up. Your attitude about charity, and your contempt for acting locally beyond what you already do, hints at a desire for a 'quick fix' rather than changing your own systems of belief that exacerbate issues of consumerism, poverty, and lack of self-sufficiency.


Is the computer you're using to type this Canadian made? Are your clothes made in Alberta? Is your shelter made from all Canadian lumber?

I'm saying that being fanatical about going local, as in obtaining most of my goods that is locally produced, is not a viable lifestyle option for many people. You can do a heck of lot more than you seem willing to. Simple google search...not that hard to do.




My mistake, vendors are highly trained in food handling, as opposed to those corporate greedy pigs who cut corners everywhere.

I've worked in the food industry for half my life, and I know how to handle food. A vendor who leaves some pre-made food in saran wrap under direct sunlight is not good food handling. A vendor who washes their hands with bar soap and dries it on their shirt is not safe practice. I'm not sure what sort of bizarre fly-by-night farmer's markets you're going to. The Strathcona farmer's market has an excellent reputation and high standards. The best farmer's markets tend to be just outside of Edmonton, in Spruce Grove and Stoney Plain...you'll find food, home-made clothing and goods, homemade soaps/cleaning products, paper, furniture so on and so forth.

However there is a farmer's market in the Salisbury greenhouse, which is close to where I live. My mother goes there to pick up small crafts and ornaments, so I guess I can support the local economy by buying similar goods.

It's mostly a matter of comfort and economy when I buy corporate/transcontinental.

Maybe when transportation fees reach sky high with depleting oil supply or government intervention, people will find business incentive to produce locally. Until then, I will have to make do with stashes of Chinese made instant ramen.
I'm raising two girls on a student's budget, and I still manage to buy a good third of our food locally. I don't have a lot of money to work with, and I'm getting my ramen noodles in bulk from a box store just like you...but I get bread and eggs locally (produced locally), large infusions of wild meat, etc etc. I don't find it terribly expensive, especially since I've been able to permanently park my vehicle, and pick up things at shops along my bus-route home.




Like I said, I don't dispose of anything that isn't useable. I don't think I have ever thrown away a table. I'm also not fond of bartering.

I know that when I graduate, I'm going to live in a condo, so I'm more inclined to use less materials and furniture, never mind the lack of gardening that's associated with owning a garden! My dream is to get furniture that I can move on my own...that you can disassemble with enough ease, yet is durable enough. Mobile, functional, unobtrusive. Right now, I can't find that at IKEA (fucking shite particle board crap), but there are few local vendors who have something close to what I need, for very reasonable prices. And it's not particle board! *cheers*


Yes, pardon you. Who said I'm giving to charity to make myself feel good? The topic was "which type of charity would help the world the most," not "how do I improve on my outlandish and wasteful lifestyle?" You seem to be struggling under the delusion that the later is unrelated to the former.

I would have asked "is there anything else I can do besides giving to charity," if I wanted such advices. The university gives enough lectures on those already. You should attend more. I don't think it's sinking in.

For the amount of 'bang for your buck' you get donating to charities, you're better off acting locally. Volunteering isn't a huge time commitment, but it can be vastly more valuable and effective than giving funds to UNICEF. You want to help the world the most? Stop contributing to the mindset that you can give someone else some money and not really change your own lifestyle, and somehow that's going to make things better.


You're right. Women find people with that kind of attitude towards pussy extremely hawt. Being sexed up is extremely productive too!

Hey, if you want to eschew carnal relations, power to you. As I said...more pussy (or cock) for the rest of us...amazing, some of us are able to fuck a lot AND be extremely productive!

Fuck I hate lazy people. Especially obstinately lazy people.

No need to get upset and make assumptions, especially in the context of internet discussion where you are completely unaware of my life situation.


You're Alberta, haven't mentioned where you live, so I'm going to pretend you live in Edmonton. First of all, 'local' does not only mean 'locally produced'. Nonetheless if you want fair trade goods, or sustainably produced and locally provided by locally owned businesses...

Earth's General Store
Address: 10832 Whyte Avenue

You can get your toothpaste and your toilet paper here. You can also buy (in bulk or otherwise) laundry detergent, handmade soaps/shampoos/conditioners, dish soap, white 100% cotton shirts (or hemp, or bamboo), all sorts of low wattage bulbs etc. This place has a huge variety of fair trade/bio-friendly products, and as many as possible are locally made. This store also uses its profits to fund educational programs and is involved in a lot of grassroots activism in the community.

Greenwoods (http://www.greenwoods.com/) is an independent Canadian bookstore. You can get your bestseller here, AND your textbooks (you'll need to order them...oddly enough I got my International Trade Law and Refugee Law texts for 40% cheaper than at the Uni bookstore, those price-raising fuckers). Other independent bookstores include: Audrey's (http://www.audreys.ca/), Alhambra, and the Wee Book Inn (used). There are a tonne of other independent bookstores throughout the city.

As for a spring coat...depends on what you're looking for. There are many independent boutiques, with local designers who actually make their own clothes. Nokomis (http://www.nokomisclothing.ca/), Red Ribbon, Maggie Walt, Kaj, Gnuda, etc etc etc etc etc.

A table lamp? The Junk Cellar is a great place for such things. Again, depends on what you're looking for. Old Hippy Wood Products has lamps, bookshelves, cabinets, etc...pretty much anything that can be built out of wood.

The Gramaphone (http://www.gramophone.ca/) would be the place to go for your classical music needs.

I'm annoyed at how little effort you apparently actually put into educating yourself, or bothering to buy locally. Instead, you reject it outright. THIS is why I bring it up.

I live in the Park, but I spend most of my time near the rails.

I assumed you were referring to locally produced goods. Technology is not locally produced, hence my contempt for your suggestion to live a "go local" lifestyle.

I do make effort to use local merchants if it's convenient enough.

I go to the Gramophone, along with other Whyte ave stores, since no other stores have good selections of classical music. I also frequent Greenwood because there is no Chapters in downtown, and the Coles in City Center is small.

I didn't know you could order textbooks for cheap. An older student gave me an impression that it's better to buy from the Uni store because you cannot get the textbook/software packages elsewhere at the same price.


Your attitude about charity, and your contempt for acting locally beyond what you already do, hints at a desire for a 'quick fix' rather than changing your own systems of belief that exacerbate issues of consumerism, poverty, and lack of self-sufficiency.

More assumptions, not every topic is a statement about society/life. Consumerism have brought many benefits in society. Unless you don't own an iPod, a television, have internet, or ride corporate produced cars, it would be very hard for you convince others to abandon the corporate-consumerist behavior.


I'm raising two girls on a student's budget, and I still manage to buy a good third of our food locally. I don't have a lot of money to work with, and I'm getting my ramen noodles in bulk from a box store just like you...but I get bread and eggs locally (produced locally), large infusions of wild meat, etc etc. I don't find it terribly expensive, especially since I've been able to permanently park my vehicle, and pick up things at shops along my bus-route home.

Of course, we're living in a prarie province, so my wheat products are locally made. My beef is 100% Albertan AAA steaks, but my seafood is shipped in from the coast.


My dream is to get furniture that I can move on my own...that you can disassemble with enough ease, yet is durable enough. Mobile, functional, unobtrusive. Right now, I can't find that at IKEA (fucking shite particle board crap), but there are few local vendors who have something close to what I need, for very reasonable prices. And it's not particle board! *cheers*

That would be nice. I imagine the future with modular housing and high speed safe transportation on electromagnetic grids.



You seem to be struggling under the delusion that the later is unrelated to the former.
You should attend more. I don't think it's sinking in.

It isn't a delusion, I just chose not to talk about lifestyles because it's more complicated. I could make the same argument and demand everybody to adopt vegetarianism and hold off meats until we develop a protein resequencer.

It's also hard to "sink in" when lecturers are bashing corporations while speaking at a university (another corporation) sponsored lecture using corporate produced instruments.


For the amount of 'bang for your buck' you get donating to charities, you're better off acting locally. Volunteering isn't a huge time commitment, but it can be vastly more valuable and effective than giving funds to UNICEF. You want to help the world the most? Stop contributing to the mindset that you can give someone else some money and not really change your own lifestyle, and somehow that's going to make things better.

You're making more assumptions that are simply untrue. My advice: use a less aggressive tone as you would in real life (unless you do speak like that in real life).

My lifestyle has changed immensely. When I was younger, I thought of going into business like my family so I can buy multiple big cars and live in an acreage. I have then learned about the evils of the consumer-driven economy, so I am now aiming to achieve a simpler lifestyle in the center of downtown where I have access to public transportation and facilities.

My recycling bag and organic waste combined is about four times the volume of my "normal" garbage, so I see that as an achievement which few people have attained. I also make efforts to eat less meat and more vegetables, a practice which most Canadians would find hard to adopt with their pizza-n-beer culture.


Hey, if you want to eschew carnal relations, power to you. As I said...more pussy (or cock) for the rest of us...amazing, some of us are able to fuck a lot AND be extremely productive!

If you've found somebody who can share your hectic career in law, that's great. In my experience, the ones who were struggling in high school were also occupied with sex, so you are obviously a winner at life.

Having these kinds of relations is a luxury, not a necessity like many Canadians would suggest. I plan to work for the government so I would have more than enough hope and optimism to help me through life.

why does everyone want to get away form a consumer drive economy anyways?
Nothing wrong with it especially if i make money off of it.

why does everyone want to get away form a consumer drive economy anyways?
Nothing wrong with it especially if i make money off of it.

Apparently, my iPod was forged in the sweat of abused children. My house was built on the tears of the Brazilian rainforest.

Apparently, my iPod was forged in the sweat of abused children. My house was built on the tears of the Brazilian rainforest.

sounds like you got a bargain to me. no sweat or tears form you.

sounds like you got a bargain to me. no sweat or tears form you.

No, but buying local will prevent these inpurities from reaching the consumer.

Why stop at consumerism, we should only buy Canadian products. The globalists and their damn wasteful corporations, we should just make do with whatever we have in our own economies.

No, but buying local will prevent these inpurities from reaching the consumer.

Why stop at consumerism, we should only buy Canadian products. The globalists and their damn wasteful corporations, we should just make do with whatever we have in our own economies.

international trade makes everyone richer though. As Canadians produce what they produce best and sell it, they buy what other produce best.
By only buying Canadian what Canadians make they redeploy resources to the production of things you produce less efficiently from things you produce more efficiently.
net production decreases as well as net ownership of property as goods become more expensive.

It's also hard to "sink in" when lecturers are bashing corporations while speaking at a university (another corporation) sponsored lecture using corporate produced instruments.


I dont think you know what a corporation is.

Come to think about it, why do I have to take all this hippy crap? Big-chain stores are local too. They stimulate local economy and employ local people. He's making it sound like corporations are some sort of mercantile organizations that bring in their own drones to work for them and leech off the community.


I'm going to buy my spring coat at Harry Rosen because they have more stylish designs than what's offered in local outlets.

I'm going to buy my foods at Costco because they have huge rebates, and generally have a better selection (incidentally imported) than what's offered in the organic markets.

If I find a local store that does their trade better than either stores, I will go to them for purely economic reasons.

I dont think you know what a corporation is.

Corporation, as in the jargon for big transnational companies.

Corporation, as in the jargon for big transnational companies.

First of all, that doesnt necissarially make it a corporation. You need to actually incorperated to be a "corperation".

Second, what Uni are you at thats transnational?

Come to think about it, why do I have to take all this hippy crap? Big-chain stores are local too. They stimulate local economy and employ local people. He's making it sound like corporations are some sort of mercantile organizations that bring in their own drones to work for them and leech off the community.


I'm going to buy my spring coat at Harry Rosen because they have more stylish designs than what's offered in local outlets.

I'm going to buy my foods at Costco because they have huge rebates, and generally have a better selection (incidentally imported) than what's offered in the organic markets.

If I find a local store that does their trade better than either stores, I will go to them for purely economic reasons.

welcome back to consumerism. here is your free coffee.

First of all, that doesnt necissarially make it a corporation. You need to actually incorperated to be a "corperation".

That wasn't my point, so I'll elaborate further. I said that it's a jargon used to describe big companies, in which the particularly "evil" ones are transnational. Apparently I got sucked into using this incorrectly applied jargon too.

I see your point, so what should I call these big companies that aren't considered local? I could say Booster Juice is local, because they are based in Edmonton.

That wasn't my point, so I'll elaborate further. I said that it's a jargon used to describe big companies, in which the particularly "evil" ones are transnational. Apparently I got sucked into using this incorrectly applied jargon too.

So your Uni isnt a corporation. So youre "zomg ebil lefist uni and their double standards!1!" claim is crap.

So your Uni isnt a corporation. So youre "zomg ebil lefist uni and their double standards!1!" claim is crap.

No it isn't, but it is a big company who runs business like other big businesses. It is hard to listen to lecturers who go off topic to talk about the evils of consumerism and big companies when they are being paid by big companies and using tools developed and produced by big companies.

I'm not saying that they have a double standard, universities can't be liable for everything the lecturer says can it?

I'm not sure if it's ironic or not that you misspelled 'literacy.' If I've misspelled it, than that is definitely ironic. Speaking of, I once saw a sign that read 'Illiterate? Call this number ______ and we can help!'

Nah, you had it right. That's textbook situational irony.

Local food bank. That's where I always chuck my first charity cash. No Question.

No need to get upset and make assumptions, especially in the context of internet discussion where you are completely unaware of my life situation. You, sarcastically, asked me to provide you with the names of local stores that you could buy a list of products at. I berated you for being too fucking lazy to figure that out yourself, but I nonetheless did give you that list. Your response is to say I am unaware of your life situation? I don't give a flying fuck about your life situation, I'm responding to your request. Keep on track.

I live in the Park, but I spend most of my time near the rails.

I assumed you were referring to locally produced goods. Oh noes! Assumptions! Assumptions are inherently bad! Or at least worth whining about in the next few paragraphs.

Technology is not locally produced, hence my contempt for your suggestion to live a "go local" lifestyle. Not locally produced? Perhaps not in Edmonton...we're more of a frontier, primary resource and service industry kind of town. But there is a fuckload of technology coming out of say, Vancouver and Montreal.

I'm glad you admit to your 'contempt' by the way. It highlights why you are so aggressively opposed to getting off your ass and actually inconveniencing yourself beyond 'oh hey maybe one day I'll give these spare bucks to a charity and save the world!' You see, what has been happening is that you've been saying things like 'oh you can't do that here', and I've gone, 'oh well look, yes you can, and you can do it here, here and here in the VERY CITY YOU LIVE IN', and you've gone off and said 'oh well um, but I didn't mean that, I meant you can't do this other thing, HA!'



I do make effort to use local merchants if it's convenient enough. Yes, hate for you to inconvenience yourself. That might require a lifestyle change.

I go to the Gramophone, along with other Whyte ave stores, since no other stores have good selections of classical music. I also frequent Greenwood because there is no Chapters in downtown, and the Coles in City Center is small.

I didn't know you could order textbooks for cheap. An older student gave me an impression that it's better to buy from the Uni store because you cannot get the textbook/software packages elsewhere at the same price. Bashing you aside for the moment, it's going to depend...shopping around for prices can definitely be worth it though when you're looking at $1500 in texts per semester.


More assumptions, not every topic is a statement about society/life. No, but this one certainly is.

You wanted to know what charity you could donate to that would create the most change in the world. Ostensibly, you want to maximise the benefit your meagre donation can obtain. You therefore are searching for a charity that keeps administrative costs down, isn't rife with corruption, and effects real change.

I have been telling you that you need to think locally. Not just in the way you live, but in the way you 'effect change'. Logistically, your money is going to trickle away the further away it goes. There are so many horribly cash strapped charities right here in Edmonton that would not incur the same kinds of costs as you would face sending your money overseas. The Support Network, Little Warriors, the Food Bank, various shelters and treatment houses, etc etc.


Consumerism have brought many benefits in society.Unless you don't own an iPod, a television, have internet, or ride corporate produced cars, it would be very hard for you convince others to abandon the corporate-consumerist behavior. I've never said abandon. I've said modify. Reduce. Become more self-sustainable, and less reliant on products that are produced under questionable circumstances in order to be offered to you 'cheaply'. I don't need to give up all the trappings of the modern age...but what I can do is not replace my tv/computer/iPod with a new model every couple of years just to 'keep up', producing massive amounts of 'e-waste'. I've gotten rid of my 'corporate produced car', and I choose 'corporate produced mass transit' because the latter is more efficient and serves more people, for less overall cost.

My issue is not with all things 'corporate', it's with people who continue to make their consumption choices based purely on convenience, pretending that economics and ethics are two separate entities that can exist without touching.


Of course, we're living in a prairie province, so my wheat products are locally made. My beef is 100% Albertan AAA steaks, but my seafood is shipped in from the coast.

That would be nice. I imagine the future with modular housing and high speed safe transportation on electromagnetic grids.

It isn't a delusion, I just chose not to talk about lifestyles because it's more complicated. Oh, I'm sorry, I made the assumption that being in post-secondary, you'd be capable of getting complicated. My mistake.

I could make the same argument and demand everybody to adopt vegetarianism and hold off meats until we develop a protein resequencer. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to convince people to simply eat LESS meat, rather than demand they give it up entirely?

It's also hard to "sink in" when lecturers are bashing corporations while speaking at a university (another corporation) sponsored lecture using corporate produced instruments. Oh I see. You're in what, first, second year? All that righteous Albertan conservative indignation about left-wing hypocrisy in post-secondary institutions. Thick enough to butter bread with. Yes, your critical thinking skills are amazing.

You're making more assumptions that are simply untrue. My advice: use a less aggressive tone as you would in real life (unless you do speak like that in real life). I do. People who ask for suggestions but go out of their way to not to listen annoy me. My advice? Be less smarmy, and more up front.

My lifestyle has changed immensely. When I was younger, I thought of going into business like my family so I can buy multiple big cars and live in an acreage. I have then learned about the evils of the consumer-driven economy, so I am now aiming to achieve a simpler lifestyle in the center of downtown where I have access to public transportation and facilities.

My recycling bag and organic waste combined is about four times the volume of my "normal" garbage, so I see that as an achievement which few people have attained. I also make efforts to eat less meat and more vegetables, a practice which most Canadians would find hard to adopt with their pizza-n-beer culture. Good. Now here's another suggestion, directly related to your OP. Look around you. Find charitable organisations. Ask them questions, find out how they spend their money. If they aren't giving you clear answers, avoid them. They should be able to tell you very quickly what exactly will happen to any donation of money, or time, that you may choose to make.

But if all you want to do is shuffle some funds in the direction of some group that will buy pencils for little kids in Haiti, content in the belief that you have done enough in your own life to effect local change, then don't expect much.


If you've found somebody who can share your hectic career in law, that's great. In my experience, the ones who were struggling in high school were also occupied with sex, so you are obviously a winner at life.

Having these kinds of relations is a luxury, not a necessity like many Canadians would suggest. I plan to work for the government so I would have more than enough hope and optimism to help me through life.
There are so many things wrong with that statement that I hardly know where to start.

we need labor camps to teach people like Neesika how to be a good consumer.

Come to think about it, why do I have to take all this hippy crap? Big-chain stores are local too. They stimulate local economy and employ local people. He's making it sound like corporations are some sort of mercantile organizations that bring in their own drones to work for them and leech off the community. Good to see you've...how did you put it? "learned about the evils of the consumer-driven economy".


I'm going to buy my spring coat at Harry Rosen because they have more stylish designs than what's offered in local outlets.

I'm going to buy my foods at Costco because they have huge rebates, and generally have a better selection (incidentally imported) than what's offered in the organic markets.

If I find a local store that does their trade better than either stores, I will go to them for purely economic reasons.
Because as all good Albertans know, economic reasons are all that matter. Ethical production is irrelevant because the economy inevitably secures the greatest justice for the greatest amount of people. Just ignore the glitches...eventually it will become profitable to respect human rights. Until then, edamus, bibamus, gaudeamus nam cras moriemur.

By the way, if you're looking for the properly gendered expletive for me at this point, it's 'bitch'.

we need labor camps to teach people like Neesika how to be a good consumer.
I'm a terrible consumer, I admit it. Most of my clothes (but not my corsets) are second hand. My furniture is third hand at best. I splurged on my laptop for law school, and it's become my entertainment system par excellence. I eat. I travel a lot. Other than that, I'm pretty pared down. It's not really a difficult way to live, and I'm still working on paring down even further. Mostly though it's a mindset. I will choose durable over fashionable, reliable over cheap, and ethically produced over convenient because that...that is consumerism with oomph. Fuck the jonses....when the zombies come, I want to be well versed in living on the bare minimum :P

I'm a terrible consumer, I admit it. Most of my clothes (but not my corsets) are second hand. My furniture is third hand at best. I splurged on my laptop for law school, and it's become my entertainment system par excellence. I eat. I travel a lot. Other than that, I'm pretty pared down. It's not really a difficult way to live, and I'm still working on paring down even further. Mostly though it's a mindset. I will choose durable over fashionable, reliable over cheap, and ethically produced over convenient because that...that is consumerism with oomph. Fuck the jonses....when the zombies come, I want to be well versed in living on the bare minimum :P

why do you HATE OUR LIBERTIES ?!?!?! and way of life.


Reeducation camp for you and your family.

why do you HATE OUR LIBERTIES ?!?!?! and way of life. Because it's wasteful and shallow?


Reeducation camp for you and your family.
Come and get me...if I'm ready for the zombies, I'm sure as hell ready for you :D

Because it's wasteful and shallow?


Come and get me...if I'm ready for the zombies, I'm sure as hell ready for you :D

Me and the praetorian guard are in route.

I'd say donating to local food banks & homeless shelters is the most productive, unless you know someone with a specific need that you are able to meet.

Most of my clothes (but not my corsets) are second hand.

A lot of the clothing I wear is second-hand or army surplus. The rest I've had for years and years, i.e. I wear a duster that I've had for a good 10 years. I don't really wear corsets myself, but I've never seen a chick wear one that didn't look good in it.

My furniture is third hand at best. I splurged on my laptop for law school, and it's become my entertainment system par excellence.

A lot of my furniture has come from various second-hand shops, what isn't hand-made, that is.(I get bored during the winter) Some of what I do for a living requires a laptop, and they are pretty versatile for entertainment as well.

I will choose durable over fashionable, reliable over cheap, and ethically produced over convenient

I was right there with you until the last bit. I'll take 'convenient' over 'ethically-produced' unless 'ethically produced' is a damn sight cheaper than 'convenient', at which point it outweighs the convenience.

I was never sarcastic until greed and death came in. I was genuinely curious where it was possible to buy locally produced toothpaste that has been lab-tested and fights gingivitis.



WHAT. reeducation camp for you and your family. double your sentence.

I'm a terrible consumer, I admit it. Most of my clothes (but not my corsets) are second hand. My furniture is third hand at best. I splurged on my laptop for law school, and it's become my entertainment system par excellence. I eat. I travel a lot. Other than that, I'm pretty pared down. It's not really a difficult way to live, and I'm still working on paring down even further. Mostly though it's a mindset. I will choose durable over fashionable, reliable over cheap, and ethically produced over convenient because that...that is consumerism with oomph. Fuck the jonses....when the zombies come, I want to be well versed in living on the bare minimum :P

Get out of my brain!!!!

:hail:

I prefer donations to medical research, I mainly give to the American Cancer Society and the American Stroke Association.

I'm a terrible consumer, I admit it. Most of my clothes (but not my corsets) are second hand. My furniture is third hand at best. I splurged on my laptop for law school, and it's become my entertainment system par excellence. I eat. I travel a lot. Other than that, I'm pretty pared down. It's not really a difficult way to live, and I'm still working on paring down even further. Mostly though it's a mindset.

Hey, I buy second-hand too. For example, my viola is over 50 years old! Talk about durability and quality!

What point are you trying to make here? We all have our own luxuries and indulgences that in some way harms the environment. You choose to travel alot, and I choose to buy exclusively first hand clothing and imported foods.


I will choose durable over fashionable, reliable over cheap, and ethically produced over convenient because that...that is consumerism with oomph. Fuck the jonses....when the zombies come, I want to be well versed in living on the bare minimum :P

If I had the money, I too would make similar choices, because from my experience, price is correlated to quality. A $600 B&O phone lasts longer than a $50 phone from Costco. My decade old Denon CD player, which I had to purchase for a premium, outlasts anything produced today.

Hey, I buy second-hand too. For example, my viola is over 50 years old! Talk about durability and quality!

What point are you trying to make here? We all have our own luxuries and indulgences that in some way harms the environment. You choose to travel alot, and I choose to buy exclusively first hand clothing and imported foods.

.

Don't violas get more expensive the older they are ?? something about the sound getting better with age ??

See you capitalist pig!!!!

Yes, hate for you to inconvenience yourself. That might require a lifestyle change.

You can inconvenience yourself and try vegetarianism too. I've tried it for a year while living in Japan, and it's not all that bad if you have access to the soy market.

Go on, you know it's better for the world. What's stopping you?


You wanted to know what charity you could donate to that would create the most change in the world. Ostensibly, you want to maximise the benefit your meagre donation can obtain. You therefore are searching for a charity that keeps administrative costs down, isn't rife with corruption, and effects real change.

^ something that's on topic.


I have been telling you that you need to think locally.

You've been telling me about supporting local businesses rather than shopping at big chain stores.


I've never said abandon. I've said modify. Reduce. Become more self-sustainable, and less reliant on products that are produced under questionable circumstances in order to be offered to you 'cheaply'.

According to PETA, all animal products are made under questionable circumstances. Give up meat.

Do you really think that all consumerists would still buy products if they were drenched in the stank of Malaysian slaves? Maybe the skepticism behind the reports on these "circumstances" is akin to the rejection of organizations like PETA.


I don't need to give up all the trappings of the modern age...but what I can do is not replace my tv/computer/iPod with a new model every couple of years just to 'keep up',

There are other luxuries which people can live without, that also helps reduce waste and pollution. Perhaps you could stop your non-essential travels, since travelling inevitably produces pollution and waste.

Your laptop isn't really necessary either, just inconvenience yourself more by hand-writing notes and making use of public facilities.

Do you buy clothes with designs? If you do, you really shouldn't, because the designs just use excess materials that have no effect on the basic purpose of the clothing.

You've also mentioned having children. Well, you've just produced more waste and pollution than I can ever do on my own, whether it was unintentional or not.


I've gotten rid of my 'corporate produced car', and I choose 'corporate produced mass transit' because the latter is more efficient and serves more people, for less overall cost.

All of which I have also done, except using a car because I live in the sub-urb.


My issue is not with all things 'corporate', it's with people who continue to make their consumption choices based purely on convenience, pretending that economics and ethics are two separate entities that can exist without touching.

That's being quite fanatical. There is always a middle ground.


Wouldn't it make more sense to try to convince people to simply eat LESS meat, rather than demand they give it up entirely?

They should have slowly phased out slavery rather than going to war over it.


Oh I see. You're in what, first, second year? All that righteous Albertan conservative indignation about left-wing hypocrisy in post-secondary institutions. Thick enough to butter bread with. Yes, your critical thinking skills are amazing.

Why thank you, although I wasn't aware that all left-wingers were supposed to be hypocrites.

Remeber that guy who said a college degree isn't worth anything if you don't have common sense? Yeah I admire him a lot (being a hardline Stelmach-supporting Conservative and all). Apparently being in college doesn't automatically mean you're smarter than everybody else.


I do. People who ask for suggestions but go out of their way to not to listen annoy me.

The only advice I asked was which type of charity serves mankind the best. If I'm at a Starbucks and I ask somebody which beverage on the menu is good, I don't expect them to go out of their way to introduce me to another cafe.


But if all you want to do is shuffle some funds in the direction of some group that will buy pencils for little kids in Haiti, content in the belief that you have done enough in your own life to effect local change, then don't expect much.

I highly doubt giving even to a local shelter would effect local change. I've dealt with homeless people all my life and I know that they will always be around irregardless of how much money I will put into the Hope mission.


There are so many things wrong with that statement that I hardly know where to start.

Don't spoil it for me then! Haven't you dreamed of being a public defender? Fight social injustice, rewrite lawyer stereotypes!



Good to see you've...how did you put it? "learned about the evils of the consumer-driven economy".

Nah I'm just amusing you, I actually recycle and compost because it makes me feel ass-good.


Because as all good Albertans know, economic reasons are all that matter. Ethical production is irrelevant because the economy inevitably secures the greatest justice for the greatest amount of people. Just ignore the glitches...eventually it will become profitable to respect human rights.

So the opinion page on the Journal is representative of all consumerist Albertans now? Oh yeah, those damn unions and Natives. We're going to invest billions in the oil companies so we can collect MASSIVE ROYALTIES :hail:

As far as I'm concerned, it's quite profitable to respect human rights. You're the law student, so I'm guessing that you would know.


By the way, if you're looking for the properly gendered expletive for me at this point, it's 'bitch'.

Calling you a bitch would be insulting to dogs. Also, there's really no need to be emotional.

If you did see past all of my sarcasmic responses, you would find a lot of common ground between us. We both would like to serve for mankind beyond what the traditional capitalist system can provide. We just have different compromises and different approaches. I don't drink any alcohol, avoid lots of meat products, probably won't have children, and maintain a composting system for my home, where you would support local businesses and reject excessive technological indulgences.

Besides, why are you assuming that I'm being hostile towards you :$ We're just having an anonymous, friendly conversation in the comfort of our gas-heated homes over a cup of hot African-produced cocoa, or in your case, locally produced and possibly certified organic cup of tea. No hard feelings, right brah?

You can inconvenience yourself and try vegetarianism too. I've tried it for a year while living in Japan, and it's not all that bad if you have access to the soy market.

Or maybe their are things in meat that our bodies need? And wasn't their a story in the news a while back about how soy could shrink your balls or something? Does anyone besides me recall that?

According to PETA, all animal products are made under questionable circumstances. Give up meat.

Do you really think that all consumerists would still buy products if they were drenched in the stank of Malaysian slaves? Maybe the skepticism behind the reports on these "circumstances" is akin to the rejection of organizations like PETA.

Please show me how PETA's position is on the same level ethically as fighting human slavery?

PETA may make some valid points about the treatment of animals, but both their tactics and the extremes to which they take their views on animal rights are ethically questionable.

You've also mentioned having children. Well, you've just produced more waste and pollution than I can ever do on my own, whether it was unintentional or not.

Are you seriously arguing the human race should stop reproducing?

That's being quite fanatical. There is always a middle ground.

I doubt its relevant to your point, so consider this a nitpick, but that's not true. Would you, for example, claim that their is a middle ground on genocide, or pedophilia?

They should have slowly phased out slavery rather than going to war over it.

Their you go again, equating eating meat with human slavery. Justify, please.

Also, if I follow your comment to its apparent logical conclusion, do you believe that PETA should wage war to liberate animals? Do you then justify terrorist tactics such as the firebombing of animal researcher's homes? Because if so, then how does that match your claim that "their is always a middle ground?"

Remeber that guy who said a college degree isn't worth anything if you don't have common sense? Yeah I admire him a lot (being a hardline Stelmach-supporting Conservative and all). Apparently being in college doesn't automatically mean you're smarter than everybody else.

"Common sense" is a poor substitute for facts and logic.

best investment: teach by example of way of life that doesn't begin and end with seeing everything in terms of symbolic value!

of course all donations to keeping people accurate and objectively informed, fed, sheltered and so on, these are very good and important things to, as are libraries, parks, public transportation and of course, especially good schools for teaching how things actually work without political or economic bias, instead of selectively withholding useful technological ability on the basis of political 'attitude'. (which is all too often the hidden reality of today's public education system, even in some of the leading and most developed countries)

I was right there with you until the last bit. I'll take 'convenient' over 'ethically-produced' unless 'ethically produced' is a damn sight cheaper than 'convenient', at which point it outweighs the convenience.
Depends...'ethically produced' also tends to be more durable and reliable. So 'cheaper' needs to take that into account.

You can inconvenience yourself and try vegetarianism too. I've tried it for a year while living in Japan, and it's not all that bad if you have access to the soy market.

Go on, you know it's better for the world. What's stopping you? I won't become a vegetarian. I like meat, and I think it's important for cultural reasons as well. As much as I can, I eat wild meat (unfortunately I haven't had a chance to go hunting in over a year and a half, but I do get regular 'care packages' from relations...tends to go fast). Chicken nauseates me...I generally can't bring myself to eat it but for the odd fried chicken spree. I feel very strongly about not being separated from your food source...I have personally killed and butchered animals for eating. If I couldn't stomach that, then yes I'd go vegetarian.



^ something that's on topic.
You've been telling me about supporting local businesses rather than shopping at big chain stores. Yes. Acting locally is multidimensional. Supporting local business helps to keep your community viable. Supporting local chartieis is another way you can do this.

According to PETA, all animal products are made under questionable circumstances. Give up meat. I agree that most 'farmed' meat/seafood is produced under questionable circumstances. I eat very little meat...perhaps once a week at most, and whenever possible, I eat wild meat.

Do you really think that all consumerists would still buy products if they were drenched in the stank of Malaysian slaves? Maybe the skepticism behind the reports on these "circumstances" is akin to the rejection of organizations like PETA. When there are multiple organisations releasing consumer reports about clothing lines like Roots, for example and people will shrug, buy the clothing and hope others will agitate enough to effect change, I don't see that as rejection but rather apathy. I don't think that people are actually analysing the information, critiquing the sources, and either accepting or rejecting said sources. Instead, I think people, normal people, are preoccupied with their own lives and don't necessarily turn their minds to how their goods are produced at the time they are buying them. That's an attitude...one that has been slowly shifting over the years. It takes a fair amount of discipline and research to address these issues on a personal level...there are more resources and educational resources available to the general public than there used to be, but it still means taking time out of your life to examine issues that are a number of degrees removed from you.


There are other luxuries which people can live without, that also helps reduce waste and pollution. Perhaps you could stop your non-essential travels, since travelling inevitably produces pollution and waste. Yeah my travels are luxuries, for sure. In this year, I think I've about broke even in terms of carbon emissions by parking my van versus flying to Montreal...so not a great improvement there.

Your laptop isn't really necessary either, just inconvenience yourself more by hand-writing notes and making use of public facilities. My laptop has replaced all my entertainment equipment, stereo, tv etc. Most of my legal reseach needs to be done online and with small kids at home, it's an invaluable point of access that allows me to do my work while they sleep. It's pared down my 'e-waste' considerably.

Do you buy clothes with designs? If you do, you really shouldn't, because the designs just use excess materials that have no effect on the basic purpose of the clothing. I buy second hand, or independent...I'm fine with the 'excess materials' (ie ink for designs, etc)...and I'm fine with paying for it when I know that I'm being charged a fair amount for the materials and labour. Then again, my people used to be called the Peacocks of the Prairies...like ravens we have a bit of a fetish with the bright and colourful. Beauty has a function beyond the merely pragmatic.

You've also mentioned having children. Well, you've just produced more waste and pollution than I can ever do on my own, whether it was unintentional or not.
I've also produced children who think cars should be banned and everyone should ride bicycles...children who are already consumer savy and deeply concerned with environmental issues. Two little 'carbon offsets' :D


All of which I have also done, except using a car because I live in the sub-urb. Yeah, by the time Edmonton catches up with the mass transit needs of this city, it'll be too late for you and I. It sucks.

That's being quite fanatical. There is always a middle ground. Yes. However in a land of affluence, it seems utterly bizarre that this middle ground hasn't been brought to the level of consciousness on a wider level. What is it about the consumer culture in Alberta that makes it still fairly unfashionable to choose ethically produced goods?


They should have slowly phased out slavery rather than going to war over it.
Is there something inherently wrong with the domestication of animals for use as food? That's certainly a debate we can have. I don't think it's as cut and dry as the enslavement of humans however (speaking of course from a specist bias).

A major problem with the industrialisation of our food source is overconsumption. We have the sorts of horrific mass-produced, hormone-pumped conveyer-belt systems of raising meat because it's common in the West to have meat with every single meal. Not only is this unecessarily wasteful and unhealthy, it creates an insane demand that can only be met by using the methods that we recognise as unsustainable and unethical.

Reducing that demand would allow us to raise livestock in better conditions, creating less environmental impact.


Why thank you, although I wasn't aware that all left-wingers were supposed to be hypocrites.

Remeber that guy who said a college degree isn't worth anything if you don't have common sense? Yeah I admire him a lot (being a hardline Stelmach-supporting Conservative and all). Apparently being in college doesn't automatically mean you're smarter than everybody else. Shocking.


The only advice I asked was which type of charity serves mankind the best. If I'm at a Starbucks and I ask somebody which beverage on the menu is good, I don't expect them to go out of their way to introduce me to another cafe. Seriously? You wouldn't expect anyone to question your presence at the Starbucks in the first place? Pffft. It's like saying, "Hey so I was at WalMart the other day and I want your advice on which child-produced shoe to buy"...and being shocked when the person you're asking says, "WalMart? wtf?"


I highly doubt giving even to a local shelter would effect local change. I've dealt with homeless people all my life and I know that they will always be around irregardless of how much money I will put into the Hope mission. It's not necessarily going to be the same people who are homeless though. A big reason for homelessness is mental illness. A lot of the charities dealing with creating longer lasting solutions for individual persons who are homeless is ensuring they are able to access mental health professionals.

What you're saying is akin to complaining about trying to deal with hunger in one country when it's clear that there will ALWAYS be hunger SOMEWHERE.

I suppose it depends on how you view change. Is helping to effect real change in the lives of individuals less worth working toward than the somewhat doomed-to-fail goal of 'eradicating x'?


Don't spoil it for me then! Haven't you dreamed of being a public defender? Fight social injustice, rewrite lawyer stereotypes!
Yes. This is why I will never, ever work for the government.


Nah I'm just amusing you, I actually recycle and compost because it makes me feel ass-good. Yeah actually there's something very vicerally satisfying about seeing how much you cut down your overall household waste by composting. It's pretty crazy.

So the opinion page on the Journal is representative of all consumerist Albertans now? Oh yeah, those damn unions and Natives. We're going to invest billions in the oil companies so we can collect MASSIVE ROYALTIES :hail: I was going to say the Sun, but good job on hitting all the major issues...except you left out the hatred of those French bastards in the east :D

As far as I'm concerned, it's quite profitable to respect human rights. You're the law student, so I'm guessing that you would know. Human rights, environmental rights...none of these things are particularly profitable in a province awash with oil and natural gas. See: Lubicon Cree, Mikisew Cree, Wabamun Lake, etc.



Calling you a bitch would be insulting to dogs. Also, there's really no need to be emotional. Niiiiiiceee....and I wasn't being emotional, I was correcting your use of the personal pronoun 'he'.

If you did see past all of my sarcasmic responses, you would find a lot of common ground between us.
I'm aware. But I've enjoyed this immensely.


We both would like to serve for mankind beyond what the traditional capitalist system can provide. We just have different compromises and different approaches. I don't drink any alcohol, avoid lots of meat products, probably won't have children, and maintain a composting system for my home, where you would support local businesses and reject excessive technological indulgences. I also drink a lot of alcohol :p

Besides, why are you assuming that I'm being hostile towards you :$ We're just having an anonymous, friendly conversation in the comfort of our gas-heated homes over a cup of hot African-produced cocoa, or in your case, locally produced and possibly certified organic cup of tea. No hard feelings, right brah?
No hard feelings? This is my preferred form of entertainment!

Because it's wasteful and shallow?



/thread

Or maybe their are things in meat that our bodies need? And wasn't their a story in the news a while back about how soy could shrink your balls or something? Does anyone besides me recall that?



Please show me how PETA's position is on the same level ethically as fighting human slavery?

PETA may make some valid points about the treatment of animals, but both their tactics and the extremes to which they take their views on animal rights are ethically questionable.



Are you seriously arguing the human race should stop reproducing?



I doubt its relevant to your point, so consider this a nitpick, but that's not true. Would you, for example, claim that their is a middle ground on genocide, or pedophilia?



Their you go again, equating eating meat with human slavery. Justify, please.

Also, if I follow your comment to its apparent logical conclusion, do you believe that PETA should wage war to liberate animals? Do you then justify terrorist tactics such as the firebombing of animal researcher's homes? Because if so, then how does that match your claim that "their is always a middle ground?"



"Common sense" is a poor substitute for facts and logic.

I was just teasing her for every single point you mentioned. Internet is serious ass business.

[everything is sic, which should be apparent from my previous comments]You seriously don't expect a bull wrangling, beer chugging Albertan to support PETA do you :fluffle:[/sic]

i keep telling you donate to me. otherwise its just a send cash to Africa scam.

[everything is sic, which should be apparent from my previous comments]You seriously don't expect a bull wrangling, beer chugging Albertan to support PETA do you :fluffle:[/sic]

Remember what happened to k.d. lang!

Me.

I like how the poll results are turning out. :p

Me.

dood i called that so long ago. get in line.

Divider.

Depends...'ethically produced' also tends to be more durable and reliable. So 'cheaper' needs to take that into account.

Point. I would rather(and do) pay a cobbler 150 bucks for a pair of boots that will last me years and years(and then can be repaired) than go to Wal-Mart and pay 40 bucks for a pair of boots that last me eight months.

you should donate to the 'make ZP so wealthy he can retire and get fat & bronzed on his own personal island somewhere in the South Pacific away from you plebs' charity.
It's always looking for more funding. And it's a worthy cause, I telt ya!

Point. I would rather(and do) pay a cobbler 150 bucks for a pair of boots that will last me years and years(and then can be repaired) than go to Wal-Mart and pay 40 bucks for a pair of boots that last me eight months.

interestingly my walmart boots only cost 20 dollars but fit better and last longer then my custom made boost. (8 years of use now only 1 repair not counting resoling to boot)

Divider.

Yeah, divider FTW! I love how it's winning.

I'm a terrible consumer, I admit it. Most of my clothes (but not my corsets) are second hand. My furniture is third hand at best. I splurged on my laptop for law school, and it's become my entertainment system par excellence. I eat. I travel a lot. Other than that, I'm pretty pared down. It's not really a difficult way to live, and I'm still working on paring down even further. Mostly though it's a mindset. I will choose durable over fashionable, reliable over cheap, and ethically produced over convenient because that...that is consumerism with oomph. Fuck the jonses....when the zombies come, I want to be well versed in living on the bare minimum :P

I guess I'm a good consumer, then. I buy my clothes new and try to make it good quality. Nothing gets thrown away, though. When I'm through with something, if it's in good enough condition, I donate it to any one of a number of groups around town or, if the condition isn't so good, I recycle it - for instance a torn sweater that can't be mended is rendered into yarn for crocheting or knitting. I do buy books used - they read the same either way and frequently I can find old friends that are no longer in bookstores or in the library. I also like to get used furniture, not matresses - those need to be new: but at Goodwill you can find really good quality pieces for outstanding prices. I figure when the zombies come, I'll already be dead.