NationStates Jolt Archive

NOTE: This is the newer Addendum movie, and is quiet a bit better than the older Zeitgeist movie.

It occured to me that this movie would appeal to NSG. I personally know quiet a bit of it to be true just from conversations with some journalists, long-term activists, etc. It is the BEST movie I think on what many of us already know but was articulated. It basically outlines our current world-system, then toward the second hour proposes a futurist technological solution to the monetary system. I do not like the anti-religious part that outlines Christianity as a Sun worshipping religion but seems they are trying to open people's minds about the truth of the Federal Reserve, and the institutions like religion that basically are keeping people behind.

Watch the movie here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

I just have to say the Zeitgeist Addendum movie is the BEST movie on current world affairs so far I have seen just combining all I know to be true, including starting with words frm the philosopher J. Krishnamurti

I watched a bit of it with my mates.

It's basically classic Marxist critique of capitalism, combined with some vaguely anarchist theory, and finished off with dollops of critical analysis of power structures/Christianity.

The narrator was annoying.

I watched a bit of it with my mates.

It's basically classic Marxist critique of capitalism, combined with some vaguely anarchist theory, and finished off with dollops of critical analysis of power structures/Christianity.

The narrator was annoying.

Why can there be no legitimate criticism of capitalism outside of being called communism? Why is capitalism the best system? Why is our monetary system (where most of the world is in poverty and Big Corporations continually break rules) the only way?

NOTE: This is the newer Addendum movie, and is quiet a bit better than the older Zeitgeist movie.

It occured to me that this movie would appeal to NSG. I personally know quiet a bit of it to be true just from conversations with some journalists, long-term activists, etc. It is the BEST movie I think on what many of us already know but was articulated. It basically outlines our current world-system, then toward the second hour proposes a futurist technological solution to the monetary system. I do not like the anti-religious part that outlines Christianity as a Sun worshipping religion but seems they are trying to open people's minds about the truth of the Federal Reserve, and the institutions like religion that basically are keeping people behind.

Watch the movie here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912
You're probably the first Zeitgeist person I met who disagrees with the anti-religious component of the movie. Kudos.

You're probably the first Zeitgeist person I met who disagrees with the anti-religious component of the movie. Kudos.

It is just ironic to me one of the MOST TRUTHFUL and effective movies ever...had to be packaged with an anti-religious message that would make it rejectable to most....seems almost sabotage. (even though weirdly they quote somewhat spiritual figures such as Buddhists and great philosopher J. Krishnamurti)

Why can there be no legitimate criticism of capitalism outside of being called communism?
There can be, but Zeitgeist talks about Marx's labour theory of value, among other things.

A large part of the criticism of capitalism in the film is classic Marxist critique.

Why is capitalism the best system?
I don't think it is.

Why is our monetary system (where most of the world is in poverty and Big Corporations continually break rules) the only way?
Again, I don't think it is.

It is just ironic to me one of the MOST TRUTHFUL and effective movies ever...had to be packaged with an anti-religious message that would make it rejectable to most....seems almost sabotage. (even though weirdly they quote somewhat spiritual figures such as Buddhists and great philosopher J. Krishnamurti)

Yeah, the anti-religious component was disappointing. The section about the monetary system and Federal Reserve was the complete opposite and a breath of fresh air. I think you're description of the anti-religious message as "sabotage" is a very evocative one.

Now if I put my tinfoil hat on I'd surmise that the powerful clique of international central bankers created the "Zeitgeist" movie just to perpetuate the illusion that "free speech" exists. That would be the only way to explain all the anti-religious bullshit :D

There can be, but Zeitgeist talks about Marx's labour theory of value, among other things.

A large part of the criticism of capitalism in the film is classic Marxist critique.


Adam Smith was the bastard who invented the labor theory of value. :D

....

Sorry, your right that it is similar criticism but I'm used to any criticism of capitalism being called "communist". The "Communists" really ruined any chance of any other philosophies with any tenets similar to Marxism from gaining a foothold, even viable alternative economic theories. When in practice the Communist nations were practically fascist.

Yeah, the anti-religious component was disappointing. The section about the monetary system and Federal Reserve was the complete opposite and a breath of fresh air. I think you're description of the anti-religious message as "sabotage" is a very evocative one.

Now if I put my tinfoil hat on I'd surmise that the powerful clique of international central bankers created the "Zeitgeist" movie just to perpetuate the illusion that "free speech" exists. That would be the only way to explain all the anti-religious bullshit :D

Well I feel like they are sabotaging themselves with the anti-religious part.

Well I feel like they are sabotaging themselves with the anti-religious part.

Yes they are.

Personally I feel religions are possibly some of the best institutions to resist the true evils of the corporatists and fascists described in the movie.

Adam Smith was the bastard who invented the labor theory of value. :D
Aye, but it is Marx's use of it they talk about in Zeitgeist.

Have you read Chariots of the Gods? or looked up anything?

Well no matter.. don't have to read anything to think there might actually be un-earthly forces about.

I find it fascinating.. and I believe in God. So does Erich von Däniken. So no biggie. Which I never thought that belief in extraterristerials muted a god anyway. Nor have I ever thought a belief in evolution muted god.

But anywho.

the formations on our planet that cannot be replucated today , by our modern means , says somthing.

I use to think.. don't discredit the older generations, as if they can't innovate and get shit done.

But now .. after seeing all the many things.. I do believe we have been influenced.

It's amazing!

Have you read Chariots of the Gods?
Oh dear...

Have you read Chariots of the Gods? or looked up anything?

I have heard of it, but I think combining such discussions with discussions on the very real present affairs dilutes the message that movements like the Zeitgeist Movement are trying to get out there.

This is one documentary taking you arond the world.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Chariots%20of%20teh%20gods&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#



It's old, but those places they speak of are still there, have been there.. will be there. Only a few parts did I find myself in disagreement ( the narrarator).

I have heard of it, but I think combining such discussions with discussions on the very real present affairs dilutes the message that movements like the Zeitgeist Movement are trying to get out there.


Present affairs? You think cause Zeitgeist was made in recent years it's present? What I'm speaking of, and what you are speaking of, and what many other people are speaking of are the same.


But I think I get what you are saying .. you want this convo focused on the recent making of the film Zeitgeist.

What I'm speaking of, and what you are speaking of, and what many other people are speaking of are the same.
I fail to see the connection between a (confused, poorly produced, yet interesting) critique of modern capitalism and the assertion that aliens built the pyramids.

Present affairs? You think cause Zeitgeist was made in recent years it's present

I know a lot of this has been going on for many years, back to the British Empire and beyond. I agree, I just think this film really outlines the clear cut truth that is immediately accessible to the most people and that is fairly obvious.

I fail to see the connection between a (confused, poorly produced, yet interesting) critique of modern capitalism and the assertion that aliens built the pyramids.


What?

Be more specific please. I want names!


ohhh .. i get it, the video I linked from what 1970 you found to be bullshit. well no shit, a bit is. But those places they explore , those feats are still the same, We can't even do it NOW. You watch long enough to see about Pumapunka? How the hell did they do that? Why all the glyphics portraying sky gods? and etc ..

What?
Unless I'm mistaken, you're talking about Chariots of the Gods?, the book/film which asserts that 'ancient spacemen' built the magnificent structures of the ancient world, such as the pyramids at Giza or Cuzco.

What?

Be more specific please. I want names!


ohhh .. i get it, the video I linked from what 1970 you found to be bullshit. well no shit, a bit is. But those places they explore , those feats are still the same, We can't even do it NOW. You watch long enough to see about Pumapunka? How the hell did they do that? Why all the glyphics portraying sky gods? and etc ..

Are you trying to say you think Zeitgeist is nutty? Couldnt there have been a less roundabout way to say that ?

Unless I'm mistaken, you're talking about Chariots of the Gods?, the book/film which asserts that 'ancient spacemen' built the magnificent structures of the ancient world, such as the pyramids at Giza or Cuzco.

I mentioned Chariots of the Gods.. I was not talking specifically about the book. Although I'm sure he knows about everything I'm speaking of and more .. but it is the all/some of what I and many others think.

I linked a video, not done by him. But it goes across the globe showing feats we cannot do today. Canot be explained. . Believe it or not this 'rock' in my avatar is one. They had the precision of a machinist.

Are you aware of these ancient stones? How much they weigh? Are you aware of the ones we (many countries) moved when a dam to be placed? We had to cut these ancient formations into sections just to move them.

Are you trying to say you think Zeitgeist is nutty? Couldnt there have been a less roundabout way to say that ?


No I wasn't.

Zeitgeist focuses in on religion, government and credit? right? Short but sweet. I was just adding in on the religious part.

or maybe I took offf and ran.. I'm sorry :(

I apologise.


(although what I'm speaking of deserves attention! dammit)

Unless I'm mistaken, you're talking about Chariots of the Gods?, the book/film which asserts that 'ancient spacemen' built the magnificent structures of the ancient world, such as the pyramids at Giza or Cuzco.

Yeah and much more. Something was going on.

Damn I'm sorry , don't stop commenting cause of me .. I know I'm a thread killer but dang .. don't hurt him cause of me.

I wasn't here!

*oh this is different .. this part 2?*

oh! Money as debt (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=debt%20as%20money&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#)



just a addon

Yes they are.

Personally I feel religions are possibly some of the best institutions to resist the true evils of the corporatists and fascists described in the movie.

Castles made of manure. I like it. :tongue:

my god.. your link and my addon link about bankers will haunt me for a week. I really am interested in this stuff.. but ugh. in a way makes me glad I'm in a low tax bracket. They don't get much at all from me. But it doesn't negate the rest.

Yes they are.

Personally I feel religions are possibly some of the best institutions to resist the true evils of the corporatists and fascists described in the movie.



glass half full yes.

Yeah and much more. Something was going on.

So just to be absolutely clear, you claim/believe that structures such as the Egyptian pyramids were built by extraterrestrials?

If you all would just stop complaining and go work on making money and spending it things would not be so difficult.

Oh, come off it. You can't really buy into the shit in this film, can you? Seriously?

Conspiracy theorists piss me off. They're lower than shit stuck to my shoe. Even I, as an atheist, can see that the first part is badly sourced, badly argued, and poorly constructed. The second and third parts are certified one hundred percent conspiricist trollop droppings.

I felt like I should be eating organic pot brownies while I watched that video :rolleyes:

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20&Itemid=55

In the modern day, there are basically two prevailing schools of thought. [within psychology] 'Geneticists' and 'Behaviorists'... the old notion of "nature vs nurture."



Uh, no. What the crap are you talking about Zeitgeist guy?

Oh, come off it. You can't really buy into the shit in this film, can you? Seriously?

Conspiracy theorists piss me off. They're lower than shit stuck to my shoe. Even I, as an atheist, can see that the first part is badly sourced, badly argued, and poorly constructed. The second and third parts are certified one hundred percent conspiricist trollop droppings.

Ooooh, trollop droppings!

Ooooh, trollop droppings!

It's good, isn't it?

That is fricken awesome. Wow. i learned something today to. I never heard the term Zeitgeist. In any event a very thought provoking movie.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free

Goethe

Good quote!

The Zeitgeist Movement and Addendum. What do you think?I haven't watched the addendum. The original, I found artistically pleasing - very well made.

A pity its actual content was a load of shit that'd been shat upon. Which is, incidentally, the reason I don't intend to give the addendum a chance.

I haven't watched the addendum. The original, I found artistically pleasing - very well made.
I found it laughably patchy at points, stuffed with meaningless and/or scaremongering symbolism.

The original was interesting, but incredibly pretentious, not actually original, and incredibly non rigorous that would never stand up as an academic piece of work. I'm betting the newer one is more of the same.

I'm 6 minutes in and I'm already epicly facepalming.

Addendum: pointing out the obvious, and making it scary.

e.g. "holy shit, did you know we have Fiat Currency!!!"

Ok I'm loling, quoting Ron Paul? Tsk tsk tks.

I'm 6 minutes in and I'm already epicly facepalming.
Which is a shame really, because although it is full of poorly-researched, not fully thought-out claims combined with laughable graphics, the sentiments of the piece are not all that silly.

And the general tone of the piece, that this is some massive exposé of facts you will have never heard of before, grates one's nerves.

....
I linked a video, not done by him. But it goes across the globe showing feats we cannot do today. Canot be explained. . Believe it or not this 'rock' in my avatar is one. They had the precision of a machinist.

Are you aware of these ancient stones? How much they weigh? Are you aware of the ones we (many countries) moved when a dam to be placed? We had to cut these ancient formations into sections just to move them.

Can you be specific about which prehistoric or early historical constructions you are talking about. Reading about prehistoric construction practices is a hobby of mine, and I would like to know more.

Can you be specific about which prehistoric or early historical constructions you are talking about. Reading about prehistoric construction practices is a hobby of mine, and I would like to know more.
I believe she's meaning stuff like the Giza Pyramids, Stonehenge, Teotihuacan, etc.

Her avatar is a stone from Machu Pichu.

Which is a shame really, because although it is full of poorly-researched, not fully thought-out claims combined with laughable graphics, the sentiments of the piece are not all that silly.

And the general tone of the piece, that this is some massive exposé of facts you will have never heard of before, grates one's nerves.

What grates my nerves is that they basically have John FUCKING Perkins talking for about a quarter of it, using him as if he was some incredibly reliable source, without presenting their own sources.

Whats worse, is that this is not any piece of masterful investigative journalism, there is no attempt to show arguments from the other side, no attempt at analysing any of the sources they use for its reliability. It's just assertion after assertion, propaganda pure and simple.

I think to beef it up you need some Rage against the Machine music. Wake up would probably be a good choice and we need a more serious narrator. Dump the the religious stuff as it has nothing to do with economies.


So any idea what a resource based economy would look like? I imagine it is smooth packaging for something else. On the surface it sounds like it might work.

Random Thoughts in no particular order

1. Why wait for the current system to fail? Why not outlay the steps to transition from a market based economy to a resource based.

2. I like that technologist finally have a say it always stuck me as odd why does a lawyer know more about the environment than say a scientist.

3. I assume we would still have to work somehow else how would these resources be produced? Are we trading money for a certain amount of widgets produced? I want to know how it works.

4. All the energy stuff can and should be done.

5. The high speed trains are good idea except when going from continent to continent. Maybe we can use a transitional approach.

6. So I assume we all do whatever we do to produce as much products as we can and likewise other countries do the same?

Although short on detail I watched the multimedia presentation live. It seems to have some good ideas. It is worth taking a look I must say. I want a little more meat before I sign on but so far I am impressed. Sign me up. Scientific management.

According to their stats on 5% are needed to keep everything we make in check.


http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

The original was interesting, but incredibly pretentious, not actually original, and incredibly non rigorous that would never stand up as an academic piece of work. I'm betting the newer one is more of the same.

The newer one is a lot better I believe.

Can you be specific about which prehistoric or early historical constructions you are talking about. Reading about prehistoric construction practices is a hobby of mine, and I would like to know more.

I first got the info from a History Channel show .. it's been playing alot .. but I cannot find a link to this specific one.. all the ones on you tube aren't the same.. nothing on google video. Then I looked around online and found the video I linked to here. It's old as hell .. but they speak of the same places.

http://www.pacal.de/pumapunku.html is the one I was speaking of that would've taken meticulous machining and tooling that wasn't around at that time.

Pumapunku (http://weeklyworldnews.com/alien-alert/6766/puma-punku/)



As for the name of the monuments that had to be sliced in order to be moved when a dam was built .. It's in the video I linked to. This was Egyptian. I will try to find the name. or will watch the video again, and make sure to write it down. I was writing down many names and googling that night when I was watching it. Then I got too buzzed to function properly lol.

ok The dam was the Aswan Dam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aswan_Dam) -- and from what I remember watching on that video .. it was a statue of Ramesses II in Abu Simbel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Simbel) that was being cut to move. But it says Abu Simbel was cut out of the mountain .. and not free moving stones like many in South America. So meh.

I believe she's meaning stuff like the Giza Pyramids, Stonehenge, Teotihuacan, etc.

Her avatar is a stone from Machu Pichu.

Yeah.. those plus many more.

http://www.metalvortex.com/myphotos/south_america/pages/DSCN1595b.htm - the stone

I don't take everything seriously or as truth .. if it's ancient mysteries or modern day conspiracy theory (not interested in that much at all anymore, cause it just pisses me off - I find no enjoyment researching corrupt government/banks/business).. I have a starting point of interest somewhere .. then if I'm really interested I search and search making up my mind on somethings, throwing out others .. and leaving the rest open. I'm just interested in the universe and the possibility of other intelligent life right now. I find thinking about it enjoyable. /shrug

I first got the info from a History Channel show .. it's been playing alot .. but I cannot find a link to this specific one.. all the ones on you tube aren't the same.. nothing on google video. Then I looked around online and found the video I linked to here. It's old as hell .. but they speak of the same places.

http://www.pacal.de/pumapunku.html is the one I was speaking of that would've taken meticulous machining and tooling that wasn't around at that time.

Pumapunku google (http://www.google.com/search?q=Puma%20Punku&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw)

As for the name of the monuments that had to be sliced in order to be moved when a dam was built .. It's in the video I linked to. This was Egyptian. I will try to find the name. or will watch the video again, and make sure to write it down. I was writing down many names and googling that night when I was watching it. Then I got too buzzed to function properly lol.

Yeah.. those plus many more.

http://www.metalvortex.com/myphotos/south_america/pages/DSCN1595b.htm - the stone

There is one very major flaw with these things, namely that no-one can present a convincing case for aliens overcoming all the incredible problems with interstellar travel, turning up on a technologically primitive Earth out of all the planets, and then constructing ancient monuments in a relatively primitive and human style, before vanishing mysteriously and leaving no other trace.

Compared to that, a bit more skill in stonemasonry than we previously attributed to ancient civilisations seems downright believable, doesn't it? Occam's razor should then suffice.

There is one very major flaw with these things, namely that no-one can present a convincing case for aliens overcoming all the incredible problems with interstellar travel, turning up on a technologically primitive Earth out of all the planets, and then constructing ancient monuments in a relatively primitive and human style, before vanishing mysteriously and leaving no other trace.

Compared to that, a bit more skill in stonemasonry than we previously attributed to ancient civilisations seems downright believable, doesn't it? Occam's razor should then suffice.

I haven't studied, researched it much at all yet. Just became interested in it.

I did use to think that about the pyramids .. when I'd watch shows about them and there would be all the professionals tryin to come up with all these theories about how they accomplished it. I'd just think people can do what the want to do, if they want to bad enough. I actually believed they were built simply on the blood sweat and backs of the people then.

But then when they get in to how the great pyramid is aligned perfectly with the lat. and long of our earth .. then I start thinking.

Or when they find a map showing a continent that wasn't to be 'dicovered' for years .. and it .. was covered in ice .. how the heck did they map that? massive stones (much much heavier than those of pyramids) erected ... all the astronomical/astrological stuff... then all the drawings of what seem to be ancient dudes in some type of craft. haha and on and on ...

Anyway .. I responded when I saw the GoG had asked me a question. I was rude and threadjacking that night. I will end this here. Thread suppose to be about Zeitgeist.

The vaguely gnostic stuff in the beginning was all pretty interesting but ultimately not all that well tied in to the 9/11 segment that it was supposed to set the stage for. I never did watch the technotopian ending, but everyone I know who has says it's where the thing really breaks down. So there's a strong middle third in there apparently. They should recut it to consist mostly of that material and more people would watch it.

Sorry, your right that it is similar criticism but I'm used to any criticism of capitalism being called "communist". The "Communists" really ruined any chance of any other philosophies with any tenets similar to Marxism from gaining a foothold, even viable alternative economic theories. When in practice the Communist nations were practically fascist.

WHAT! You dare to compare the glorious workers paradise to the filth that is Fascism! The Communist ideal is the only way to liberate our proletariat comrades from the shackles of bourgeois oppression. Our perfect Socialist utopia is nothing like the excrement of a rotten cancerous pig-dog that is Fascism.

TO THE GULAGS WITH YOU!!

The video bored me by 3 minutes in. So I stopped watching. Sounds like a lame movement.

*edits*

Watching it from 3 minutes in. This is very silly. It's telling me what I already know and that's not really good enough.

People use money to control things? NO WAI! A MEANS TO GET MATERIAL RESOURCES HAS LOTS OF POWER! CALL THE REVOLUTION NOW BROTHERS.

Stopped at 25 minutes because I don't have time to watch the entire thing. So far it's not as terrible as the original. I guess my opinion will change after I see the part about religion.

Response to the first part: yes, money only exists because someone says so. The same is true about property (is there such a thing as a yourness particle?), so I fail to give a damn.

Inflation is important because it encourages people to spend their money, which leads to higher employment (someone has to provide those goods and services), which means more people can buy things they need. It's not a very elegant system, but as long as we continue to pretend property exists at all...

The video bored me by 3 minutes in. So I stopped watching. Sounds like a lame movement.

*edits*

Watching it from 3 minutes in. This is very silly. It's telling me what I already know and that's not really good enough.

People use money to control things? NO WAI! A MEANS TO GET MATERIAL RESOURCES HAS LOTS OF POWER! CALL THE REVOLUTION NOW BROTHERS.


to be fair.. even if you recognize something at the beginning , you gotta see all it's talking about. Not buy it, but know.


or just not watch it all. If it's anything like the first Zeitgeist . it will have different parts focused on different subjects.

I think it is a good idea I am just not sure on how it would work practically. If we were not working for money how would it work.

to be fair.. even if you recognize something at the beginning , you gotta see all it's talking about. Not buy it, but know.
The main point of it is thus : Money = debt

Guess what, the food you eat - that's a debt on the world's resources. Every time you step, that's a debt to kinetic energy that you just aren't in a position to repay.

Should we stop eating? No. That would be retarded.
Should we stop walking? No. Don't be silly.