NationStates Jolt Archive

Space Station Crew In Near Miss With Space Junk

NPR.org, March 12, 2009 · The crew of the international space station survived a close call with space junk Thursday.

The three crew members took refuge for 11 minutes in the Soyuz escape capsule and then were told to go back into the space station. Officials were worried about a possible collision with a small piece of an old spacecraft motor.

The debris was about one-third of an inch in width, said NASA spokesman Josh Byerly. It passed within three miles of the space station.

The drama began unfolding with a statement on the NASA Web site expressing concerns about a "minimal" chance that the space station could be hit by debris.

The astronauts aboard the orbiting platform — two Americans and one Russian — retreated to the relative safety of the Soyuz TMA-13 space capsule as a precautionary measure, NASA says.

"Crew members are taking precautionary measures due to space debris that has been determined to be within the range where a collision is possible," the NASA Web site said. "News of the close approach came too late for flight controllers to coordinate an avoidance maneuver."

Once inside the capsule, crew members would have been able to quickly leave the station if necessary.

The chief fear was that debris hitting the station could cause a fatal loss of air pressure inside the station.

With reporting from The Associated Press.

Link (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101801338)

Ok, so it wasn't really a drive by, but it'd still be awesome to see one.

>.<

I'm pretty sure uzis and TEC 9s won't work in space.

Spaceside, Bitches!!!

I'm pretty sure uzis and TEC 9s won't work in space.

Rebuild the ammunition a bit - you need a propellant with it's own oxygen supply - and they should be fine. It's all springs and recoil, no need for gravity.

Rebuild the ammunition a bit - you need a propellant with it's own oxygen supply - and they should be fine. It's all springs and recoil, no need for gravity.

They may be even more efficient afterwards...No friction and all that...

Rebuild the ammunition a bit - you need a propellant with it's own oxygen supply - and they should be fine. It's all springs and recoil, no need for gravity.

Air-tight rounds with sufficiently oxygenated gunpowder. Gas operated reloading might get complicated in a vacuum. Or maybe not, I don't really know how that works.

They may be even more efficient afterwards...No friction and all that...

No gravity means no bullet drop. No atmosphere means no wind. Sniping made easy.

Air-tight rounds with sufficiently oxygenated gunpowder. Gas operated reloading might get complicated in a vacuum. Or maybe not, I don't really know how that works.

I don't think Uzis and TEC-9s are gas operated.

I don't think Uzis and TEC-9s are gas operated.

Both are blowback.

Rebuild the ammunition a bit - you need a propellant with it's own oxygen supply - and they should be fine. It's all springs and recoil, no need for gravity.

Newton's Third Law.

Both are blowback.

I thought so, but I am very out of date on the subject.

Newton's Third Law.

^^this.

Newton's Third Law.

Oh yeah, that could make things.....interesting.
I thought so, but I am very out of date on the subject.

I was never up to date. I checked wiki.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/halo-rifle-pistol-7.jpg

Newton's Third Law can say that to the Chief...

Oh yeah, that could make things.....interesting.


I was never up to date. I checked wiki.

I used to be a gun nut. Still am to some extent, but much prefer medieval weapons these days. That is not to say I wouldn't like to own a Para Ordnance P-10 though.;)

Newton's Third Law.

One gun in each hand, fire in opposite directions. Or just adjust the angle of the solar panels slightly - momentum from a firearm is fairly small, so the overall change in your spacecraft's velocity will be minimal. A few hours of solar pressure will sort it out again.

One gun in each hand, fire in opposite directions. Or just adjust the angle of the solar panels slightly - momentum from a firearm is fairly small, so the overall change in your spacecraft's velocity will be minimal. A few hours of solar pressure will sort it out again.

Wut?

I used to be a gun nut. Still am to some extent, but much prefer medieval weapons these days. That is not to say I wouldn't like to own a Para Ordnance P-10 though.;)

Awww, it's a baby M1911.

Wut?

The Solar Wind maybe? idk, lol...

The Solar Wind maybe? idk, lol...

Yeah, I'm lost.

Awww, it's a baby M1911.

Yah. With 2 additional rounds in a package not much larger than an average 380. w00t!

Wut?

When a photon hits something, it transfers a little momentum to it. This leads to a pressure on the surface - at the distance of the Earth from the Sun, sunlight exerts a pressure of about 100 microPascals per square metre. You can use this, with a little mathematics, to adjust the course of a spacecraft - if you angle the solar panels correctly, the pressure will push the spacecraft in the direction you want it to go. It won't do much of this, but it should be enough to correct for the momentum of a bullet.

Edit: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail for a quick introduction to the ideas here.

When a photon hits something, it transfers a little momentum to it. This leads to a pressure on the surface - at the distance of the Earth from the Sun, sunlight exerts a pressure of about 100 microPascals per square metre. You can use this, with a little mathematics, to adjust the course of a spacecraft - if you angle the solar panels correctly, the pressure will push the spacecraft in the direction you want it to go. It won't do much of this, but it should be enough to correct for the momentum of a bullet.

Edit: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail for a quick introduction to the ideas here.

Fascinating.

*doesn't understand at all, but nods enthusiastically*

I kinda undersand and it makes perfect sense. Apart from the fact that gangstas can't do algebra.

I kinda undersand and it makes perfect sense. Apart from the fact that gangstas can't do algebra.

It saddens me that there is not a single Flash clip of the Gangsta Math scene from High School High that I can show.

:(

Rebuild the ammunition a bit - you need a propellant with it's own oxygen supply - and they should be fine. It's all springs and recoil, no need for gravity.

Actually the standard ammo has already its oxydant within (think about it: it's sealed in a metal cartridge case, without contact with the atmosphere!).

The main problem with firearms in space is overheating. Better crossbows.


By the way...

o_O
/ /
-------------
BZZZZAAAP!
-------------
\_\

;)

Rebuild the ammunition a bit - you need a propellant with it's own oxygen supply - and they should be fine. It's all springs and recoil, no need for gravity.

Gunpowder has it's own oxygen supply. Seeing as it's sealed behind the bullet in the shell and all that.

Gunpowder has it's own oxygen supply. Seeing as it's sealed behind the bullet in the shell and all that.

Actually the standard ammo has already its oxydant within (think about it: it's sealed in a metal cartridge case, without contact with the atmosphere!).

The main problem with firearms in space is overheating. Better crossbows.


By the way...

o_O
/ /
-------------
BZZZZAAAP!
-------------
\_\

;)

I sit corrected. Does the primer also possess this property? (while momentum and orbital motion may be my thing, explosives and firearms aren't so much)

The heat dissipation is a good point, but one that could definitely be overcome.

Rebuild the ammunition a bit - you need a propellant with it's own oxygen supply - and they should be fine. It's all springs and recoil, no need for gravity.
Gunpowder *is* a propellant with its own oxygen supply. Every kind of it. The amount of air within the chamber wouldn't give enough energy for use of any other propellant. Spud guns have to use enormous chambers for pretty low energy.

Of course, primer also has this property. How could it not? Air oxygen is insufficient for explosives.


Gas operation doesn't have any problems with low or zero pressure. Actually, compared to the pressures it uses, the atmospheric pressure is so small (<0.1%) that it can be always considered zero.


The only potential issue with guns in space is the lubricant spoiling faster, but it's not something particularly critical in the short run. Cooling is largely radiative anyway, the only issues are with prolonged use of machineguns designed to be air-cooled.

I sit corrected. Does the primer also possess this property?

I guess so. Primer is an explosive, too.

The heat dissipation is a good point, but one that could definitely be overcome.
Only with cumbersome, massive cooling devices. On a second thought, maybe a ceramic gun instead of a metal gun, ceramic takes heat better than metal.

you figure we could develop a defense system for that.
like adapt this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4563202/US-military-develops-anti-aircraft-laser.html
to shoot down space debris. more power and less atmosphere should make it effective.

Only with cumbersome, massive cooling devices.
An aluminum upper receiver and a couple aluminum fins along the barrel. Noticeable, but far from cumbersome. Required only for prolonged automatic fire, burst fire can be done with guns as they are.


On a second thought, maybe a ceramic gun instead of a metal gun, ceramic takes heat better than metal.
Ceramic also doesn't like tension and shocks, shattering apart if used in such a quality, and doesn't conduct heat well, which means exacerbating the cooling issue even further.

An aluminum upper receiver and a couple aluminum fins along the barrel. Noticeable, but far from cumbersome. Required only for prolonged automatic fire, burst fire can be done with guns as they are.

Meh. Full auto fire can generate so much heat that the old MG-42 had to replace barrel every 7 loaders.

Ceramic also doesn't like tension and shocks, shattering apart if used in such a quality, and doesn't conduct heat well, which means exacerbating the cooling issue even further.
It depends on the type of ceramic. Currently there are car engines and car brakes made of ceramic. Also some layers of the Chobham armour are ceramic iirc.

Meh. Full auto fire can generate so much heat that the old MG-42 had to replace barrel every 7 loaders.
In modern weapons, there are no significant air cooling elements. At high temperatures, a major proportion of heat is carried away by radiation.

Space won't change things all that radically. The issues get worse, but weapons still get this way of cooling, so they still can be used.


It depends on the type of ceramic. Currently there are car engines and car brakes made of ceramic.
There are no ceramic car engines that I know of. All there is is some minor use of non-structural ceramic components.


Also some layers of the Chobham armour are ceramic iirc.
The main layer, specifically ceramic bricks, compressed in a honeycomb-like steel structure on all sides. But note that they are compressed, and free from load bearing. The ceramic is used in armor for its hardness, which allows to defeat the projectile, not for tensile or bending strength.