NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/13/ecigarettes.smoking/index.html

So... e-cigarettes are to be considered a drug and must be approved by the FDA because they might not be safe...


...but real cigarettes...:confused:


http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/exploding-head.gif

Simple enough, the tobacco lobby isn't behind them. Once that happens...

they have wanted to classify cigarettes as a drug for a long time.

e-cigs meet the criteria. they should be regulated.

like the advertiser said it is just like the nicotine patch.

they have wanted to classify cigarettes as a drug for a long time.

e-cigs meet the criteria. they should be regulated.

All cigs meet the criteria. :p

Simple enough, the tobacco lobby isn't behind them. Once that happens...
Pretty much this. The big US cigarette makers use "anti-tobacco" legislation to crack down on anything that might represent a threat to their market hegemony.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/13/ecigarettes.smoking/index.html

So... e-cigarettes are to be considered a drug and must be approved by the FDA because they might not be safe...


...but real cigarettes...:confused:


http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/exploding-head.gif

Well, LG I noticed they were concerned about the effects of inhaling pure nicotine. One must remember that nicotine is far more lethal than arsenic, in fact you only need a tenth of the amount of nicotine (10mg, I believe) to kill a person, compared to arsenic (about 100mg). My source for this is Modern Marvels on History Channel. It is one thing for a small amount of nicotine to be absorbed through the skin over time; it's a different story inhaling it...more immediate, concentrated effect.

All cigs meet the criteria. :p
yes they do but the fda has been unsuccessful so far in getting congress to agree to it.

Sounds stupid. Nicotine is a poison.

Well, LG I noticed they were concerned about the effects of inhaling pure nicotine. One must remember that nicotine is far more lethal than arsenic, in fact you only need a tenth of the amount of nicotine (10mg, I believe) to kill a person, compared to arsenic (about 100mg). My source for this is Modern Marvels on History Channel. It is one thing for a small amount of nicotine to be absorbed through the skin over time; it's a different story inhaling it...more immediate, concentrated effect.

So they might kill you. As opposed to cigarettes which might kill you. ;)

So they might kill you. As opposed to cigarettes which will kill you. ;)

Fixed.

yes they do but the fda has been unsuccessful so far in getting congress to agree to it.

Yeah, I noticed. Cigarettes kill 400,000 people a year but Congress legislate pet chimpanzees because they maimed or killed 10 people in the past 10 years.

This is why I'm glad I'm insane. Sane people are crazy.

Yeah, I noticed. Cigarettes kill 400,000 people a year but Congress legislate pet chimpanzees because they maimed or killed 10 people in the past 10 years.

This is why I'm glad I'm insane. Sane people are crazy.
oh i think its more analagous to marijuana.

cigs contain a drug, they kill 400,000 people per year. marijuana contains a drug, it makes 400,000 people a year fat.

why the disparity of treatment by the government?

oh i think its more analagous to marijuana.

cigs contain a drug, they kill 400,000 people per year. marijuana contains a drug, it makes 400,000 people a year fat.

why the disparity of treatment by the government?

hey the US is in the middle of the battle of against fat. besides heart disease is number 1 killer in usa.




lol this is jsut too much for me to keep a straight face.

Fixed.

Well to be fair, some people manage to live long and lustrous lives smoking the entire time. Some people get waxed by the cigarettes relatively quickly in their thirties, forties or fifties. They are the lucky ones. I never smoked, but not because I fear they may kill me. I fear they might not. The idea of what I might have to suffer through, be it cancer, chemotherapy, emphysema, etc. and how long a person can live with a slow rot is what frightens me the most.

But they might not kill you. It's kind of like russian roulette with a really slow gun. ;)

Well to be fair, some people manage to live long and lustrous lives smoking the entire time. Some people get waxed by the cigarettes relatively quickly in their thirties, forties or fifties. They are the lucky ones. I never smoked, but not because I fear they may kill me. I fear they might not. The idea of what I might have to suffer through, be it cancer, chemotherapy, emphysema, etc. and how long a person can live with a slow rot is what frightens me the most.

But they might not kill you. It's kind of like russian roulette with a really slow gun. ;)

More like a six shooter with a bullet in 5 chambers. It *might* not kill you. Maybe.

More like a six shooter with a bullet in 5 chambers. It *might* not kill you. Maybe.

Well some of the bullets might have a small powder charge or be plastic bullets so they'll only fuck you up for life instead of kill you outright.

Well some of the bullets might have a small powder charge or be plastic bullets so they'll only fuck you up for life instead of kill you outright.
i know what you mean...

"i dont care that cigarettes will kill me"

"ya but in the meantime you stink, you cant run 100 feet without gasping for breath, and all your teeth have rotted out"

Well some of the bullets might have a small powder charge or be plastic bullets so they'll only fuck you up for life instead of kill you outright.

Sounds like a really vicious game.

i know what you mean...

"i dont care that cigarettes will kill me"

"ya but in the meantime you stink, you cant run 100 feet without gasping for breath, and all your teeth have rotted out"

Not to mention that chemotherapy sessions are a great way to meet bald chicks desperate for sex. ;)

Well, shit, I figured that was the case. They'd rather you be on expensive antidepressants and nicotine patches than use something that allows you to safely enjoy an experience you like. The FDA knows on what side its bread is buttered just like everybody else...hell, they're probably trying to cater to both the pharmaceutical companies and the tobacco companies at the same time.

Apart from the tobacco lobby, there's also the grandfather rule effect with conventional cigarettes. "They've been on a market for centuries, how can we impede that?". No such thing with the e-cig.

I actually use the NPRO e-cig. Have had it for 3 weeks, my wife got one too. I use it less than real cigarettes and my lungs are starting to feel better.

I could care less what the FDA says, its just a nicotine delivery system without all the carcinogens.

I DO NOT WORK FOR, nor have I been payed by, NPRO.

TP

Well to be fair, some people manage to live long and lustrous lives smoking the entire time. Some people get waxed by the cigarettes relatively quickly in their thirties, forties or fifties. They are the lucky ones. I never smoked, but not because I fear they may kill me. I fear they might not. The idea of what I might have to suffer through, be it cancer, chemotherapy, emphysema, etc. and how long a person can live with a slow rot is what frightens me the most.

But they might not kill you. It's kind of like russian roulette with a really slow gun. ;)

That is truly the scariest part about tobacco- it may not kill you right away, but it will make you wish you were dead as you are wasting away.

That is truly the scariest part about tobacco- it may not kill you right away, but it will make you wish you were dead as you are wasting away.

When I'm old and confined to a wheelchair, I want to have a hell of a lot of interesting stories to show for it and not, "I smoked too much".

Pure nicotine is used as insecticide. Now just picture every cartoon where a bug smokes. Take that as you will.

When I'm old and confined to a wheelchair, I want to have a hell of a lot of interesting stories to show for it and not, "I smoked too much".

If I see you old and in a wheelchair I will be more suspicious than usual.

When I'm old and confined to a wheelchair, I want to have a hell of a lot of interesting stories to show for it and not, "I smoked too much".

Is the choice in life between 'lots of adventures but no cigarettes' or 'no adventures but cigarettes'?

Is the choice in life between 'lots of adventures but no cigarettes' or 'no adventures but cigarettes'?

With the e-cigarette, you could be right in the middle. Of course, we shouldn't be consuming nicotine (which does have potential medical applications) in a safe and properly regulated format, we should be either consuming additive-laden cigarettes or healthy things like anti-depressants. As much as they might not want to admit it, the pharmaceutical companies are some of the biggest supporters of the currently patronizing and screwed up attitude towards tobacco and nicotine in this country; rather than seek to minimize harm, which is entirely possible with a safe and approved e-cigarette, they would prefer to keep us on drugs and nicotine patches while completely silencing any other views in the name of "health".

Of course, if you think the makers of Nicorette or Wellbutrin really want you to quit smoking, you're a fool...their two-faced behavior is disgusting when viewed objectively. They want you to be hooked not only on cigarettes but also their products, hopefully quitting over and over again but never actually succeeding.

If people think quitting smoking cold turkey is bad, try quitting an anti-depressant like that. It'll probably make you feel like utter shit, hospitalize you, or maybe even kill you. Talk about a safer alternative.

Considering the federal cigarette tax has been raised to digustingly high levels within the last week, I dont understand how anyone could afford to smoke any kind of cigarette.

Yeah, I noticed. Cigarettes kill 400,000 people a year but Congress legislate pet chimpanzees because they maimed or killed 10 people in the past 10 years.

This is why I'm glad I'm insane. Sane people are crazy.
Just demand the chimps smoke cigarettes. They'll be too out of breath to hurt anyone.
(Killing two birds with one stone; that's called "leadership" in case any Congressmen are reading this. If I don't see a bill about this very soon, I'll make sure the public finds out what you guys passed up.)

Considering the federal cigarette tax has been raised to digustingly high levels within the last week, I dont understand how anyone could afford to smoke any kind of cigarette.

Actually, Salems only went up from $4.51 to $4.90, so they're not materially more expensive.

That being said, I'm glad I cut back a good amount...the level of enjoyment I get from each cigarette is orders of magnitude greater when I'm only smoking a couple a day, and even better if I take a day or two off. People forget that tobacco was used in strict moderation by the Native Americans and never consumed in the quantities many smokers consume today. I personally feel that there is little or no damage from a very low level of tobacco consumption, especially if combined with a healthy diet and exercise but that the risk increases dramatically with higher consumption.

Also, don't smoke in areas with poor ventilation. Second hand smoke is rude unless you're allowed to smoke.

That being said, I'm glad I cut back a good amount...the level of enjoyment I get from each cigarette is orders of magnitude greater when I'm only smoking a couple a day, and even better if I take a day or two off.
I feel much the same about most drugs.

Well, if it really is a healthy alternative, then I dont see why not...

Let the FDA test it for effects and see if it works as well as they claim, even the FDA themselves say it may be a healthy alternative...

Im not seeing a downside to this...

All cigs meet the criteria. :p

No. Regular cigarettes are an Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearm.

Apart from the tobacco lobby, there's also the grandfather rule effect with conventional cigarettes. "They've been on a market for centuries, how can we impede that?". No such thing with the e-cig.

They managed OK with pot and booze.

Yeah, I noticed. Cigarettes kill 400,000 people a year but Congress legislate pet chimpanzees because they maimed or killed 10 people in the past 10 years.

This is why I'm glad I'm insane. Sane people are crazy.

Still, you have to admit there hasn't been any documented cases of wild cigarette attacks on humans.

Still, you have to admit there hasn't been any documented cases of wild cigarette attacks on humans.

Just because they aren't documented...

If I see you old and in a wheelchair I will be more suspicious than usual.

My wheelchair will have a concealed pie launcher. :)

Is the choice in life between 'lots of adventures but no cigarettes' or 'no adventures but cigarettes'?

It's a sliding scale. The more you want of one, the less you get of the other. How much of each do you want?

Still, you have to admit there hasn't been any documented cases of wild cigarette attacks on humans.

That would increase my opinion of them immensely. ;)

When I'm old and confined to a wheelchair, I want to have a hell of a lot of interesting stories to show for it and not, "I smoked too much".
It depends on what you were smoking. I have a potential business plan, a "Weed of the Month" mail-order company. Every month, I will hand roll hundreds of various dried, crushed leaves, all completely legal but usually not thought of as smoking material. People rate the leaf on a website, and at the end of every year I market the most popular to the population at large. I'm thinking green tea should be a winner; all of the antioxidants would cancel out the carcinogens.

Well, if it really is a healthy alternative, then I dont see why not...

Let the FDA test it for effects and see if it works as well as they claim, even the FDA themselves say it may be a healthy alternative...

Im not seeing a downside to this...

As long as it's not the same FDA staff that greenlighted Vioxx.

Well, shit, I figured that was the case. They'd rather you be on expensive antidepressants and nicotine patches than use something that allows you to safely enjoy an experience you like. The FDA knows on what side its bread is buttered just like everybody else...hell, they're probably trying to cater to both the pharmaceutical companies and the tobacco companies at the same time.

Which is why the FDA also wants to classify cigarettes as a drug. Wait, no, that would render your statement ridiculous and practically paranoid. Carry on.

Laowit I'll stick to the real thing. I know this shit's healthier and that, but I doubt it be quite like having a toke on a real ciggerette

Still, you have to admit there hasn't been any documented cases of wild cigarette attacks on humans.

That's clearly because no survivors are left.

Considering the federal cigarette tax has been raised to digustingly high levels within the last week, I dont understand how anyone could afford to smoke any kind of cigarette.

One more reason to smoke cigars (very small ones if preferred).

It certainly can't be worse than regular cigs. I'd like to try some when I decide to quit smoking .. AGAIN. (I quit before cold turkey .. I will probably use some aid to help ween me off this time)

" But the U.S. Food and Drug Administration considers e-cigs an unapproved new drug because of a lack of scientific proof that they're safe or effective. "

Good lord it will take years for them to approve of it. And only then if it doesn't hurt pharmacuticles.

I don't think the tobacco industry has nearly as much weight as the drug industry, and never did. But 15 - 20 years ago anti smoking drugs etc weren't as prosperous or popular as they are now. When all that stuff happened to Brown & Williamson and the rest of major tobacco, the clout changed hands.

Considering the federal cigarette tax has been raised to digustingly high levels within the last week, I dont understand how anyone could afford to smoke any kind of cigarette.

Off brands. I buy cartons of a cig called Native from a local tobacco shop. A carton comes to $15. So that's 1.50 a pack. No way in hell I'd buy Marlboro or Winston at double or more. Native is just fine, I like em.


I haven't looked them up online, but from what the pack says they are made by Native Trading Associates, Mohawk Nation Territory Akwesasne, NY.


There are other off brands as well. I have tried packs of different ones. I smoked a couple packs of a brand called Kingston (made in Brazil iirc) , and they were ok (never good) at first .. then I dunno what happened .. but they went to shit, could've been a bad batch of tobacco or something (which it seemed like to me.. bad tobacco), and if so .. then they ain't doing something right. Native imo is just as good as a name brand and consistent.

It would be cool to make a vaporizer out of one of those. Cops would think its a cigarette.