NationStates Jolt Archive

Chalk this one up on the list of weird Japanese-American arguments. My wife was watching one of her Japanese programs whose main purpose seems to be to make its female audience cry. Any case, this week's bio was about a singer in Japan who had a very rough life and now has about 5 years to live due to advanced breast cancer. On the bio, said singer, when she found out about her shorten life, divorced her husband, the father of her daughter, because she didn't want to make him suffer through her suffering and death. She felt that releasing him from their marriage was the best thing because dealing with a terminally ill spouse would be very hard.

My Japanese wife, after watching this, turns to me and says that if she was in the same situation, she would do the same and force a divorce in order to spare me her dying. I, personally, feel that this is not acceptable and instead of being selfless is very selfish on the part of the person who would be dying.

So after arguing about this, we've decided to see what NSG might say about it. Selfish or selfless? I say selfish because it removes the other spouse (The one who is not dying)'s ability to make their own decisions based upon their own levels of comfort. I can see divorce if your spouse no longer loves you (Or vice versa) or has fallen in love with another, but this smacks more of one person wanting to remove the chance that their spouse will run during the hard times ahead of time. In effect hurting him or her BEFORE that person could hurt the one who is dying.

My wife, however, sees it as keeping the non-dying spouse from having to experience the tough situation of dealing with someone who is terminally ill. As she puts it, she wouldn't want to waste my time in that situation for those 5 years when I could put that time to better use and find a healthy new wife.

So what says NSG?

maybe its cultural.

i feel strongly that anyone with a dying spouse (who they loved) would want to be there for every possible moment, would be devastated to lose them and could not bear the thought that their beloved was dying alone.

i dont think its selfish; its very wrong headed.

i feel strongly that anyone with a dying spouse (who they loved) would want to be there for every possible moment, would be devastated to lose them and could not bear the thought that their beloved was dying alone.

i dont think its selfish; its very wrong headed.

Yeah, that really. If anything, it's taking away the last days/weeks/months that they would be able to spend together and yanking that away.

I would have thought it doesn't make much sense financially - ever the romantic me.

It sounds like fear to me. Which is a perfectly normal reaction I suppose, but it's not a rational one.

It sounds like fear to me. Which is a perfectly normal reaction I suppose, but it's not a rational one.
Thus being selfish, IMO.

That sounds like a whole busload of crazy. Unless Japanese people are really good at compartmentalizing things (She's not my wife anymore, so I don't care about her! Not at all. No. Certainly not. No. Of course not. No. That would be silly. No.), the husband and kid are still going to mourn. Only, now they don't have any easy way to express it.
I wouldn't say it is selfish, though, because I've got no idea what the woman thinks she's getting out of it.

in Korea a wife might say that.... but it would be a test, if you didn't argue with her against the divorce expect being yelled at for two hours straight.

Thus being selfish, IMO.
i dont think its selfish to want to spare your beloved the pain of watching you die. you gain nothing from walking away.

its just wrong. it will not spare your beloved pain at all.

i dont think its selfish to want to spare your beloved the pain of watching you die. you gain nothing from walking away.

its just wrong. it will not spare your beloved pain at all.
But my question would be would that person actually be trying to spare their spouse the pain of watching them die, or are they more afraid that in the mist of dying, said spouse might break and run?

Sounds like a cunning scheme to disenfranchise the spouse of their inheritance rights...

It's a strong emotion, I completely understand it, it's the feeling of being a burden.

Is it selfish, I don't know.

I remember helping my mother carry oxygen cans up to my father who was at the end of cancer, she just broke and said that, as much as she knew it was bad to think so, she just wished it was over.

She meant it in the best possible way, and I suspect my father, half-comatose as he was, felt similar. It didn't mean there was no love, it's just a hard situation to go through on either side.

It's why the main charity I support is McMillan Nurses, who focus as much on those dealing with someone dying as the person dying.

I doubt that if, fate forbid, it happened, that your spouse would leave.

But my question would be would that person actually be trying to spare their spouse the pain of watching them die, or are they more afraid that in the mist of dying, said spouse might break and run?
oh

that does happen.

but i wouldnt assume it in a loving marriage.

i still say it is a test. Say you will forbid her from divorcing you or risk the dog house.

i still say it is a test. Say you will forbid her from divorcing you or risk the dog house.
lol it may be a test.

but what else are you going to do? treat her like a 5 year old who says that he is running away from home and pack her bags for her?

lol it may be a test.

but what else are you going to do? treat her like a 5 year old who says that he is running away from home and pack her bags for her?

just say while I understand how much you care, I can not allow you you to divorce me.

just say while I understand how much you care, I can not allow you you to divorce me.
Oh I already told her that if she pulled something like this that I WOULD pull out the dead cod and perform the fish dance on her.

Oh I already told her that if she pulled something like this that I WOULD pull out the dead cod and perform the fish dance on her.

Not even gonna ask.

just say while I understand how much you care, I can not allow you you to divorce me.
yeah. thats all you can do.

unless you decide to let her go.

Oh I already told her that if she pulled something like this that I WOULD pull out the dead cod and perform the fish dance on her.

see smart man. i bet you had great sex that night.

Oh I already told her that if she pulled something like this that I WOULD pull out the dead cod and perform the fish dance on her.
so how has your wife reacted to your notion that you would not be happy with such a sacrifice on her part?

Not even gonna ask.
You have not watched enough Monty Python's Flying Circus. You must remedy that situation before you are allowed back on this forum.

i dont think its selfish; its very wrong headed.

^ This. Breaking up with someone you love in order not have them go through pain because of you is a selfless act. It's also, from my perspective, pretty fucked up.

But my question would be would that person actually be trying to spare their spouse the pain of watching them die, or are they more afraid that in the mist of dying, said spouse might break and run?
I guess that possibility would at some point cross your mind, just as I think that at some point I'd very likely apologize to my partner for what I'm putting him through (though of course it's not my fault) and might even tell him that I understood if he split up with me because it was all too much - except that, while I'd understand it, I'd also be terribly upset and disappointed and heartbroken if he did.

But I'm not buying that there's many women who are so afraid of being left that they, on top of getting the diagnosis of a terminal illness, will go force a divorce. Unless of course they have reason to be afraid, i.e. unless Japanese men are known to resent & leave their terminally ill spouses.

You have not watched enough Monty Python's Flying Circus. You must remedy that situation before you are allowed back on this forum.

Evidently I missed that one.

Evidently I missed that one.

Infidel!!! he hath not watched Monty Python.

Or maybe Japanese women are just culturally expected to never be a burden for their husbands or something, I wouldn't know.

so how has your wife reacted to your notion that you would not be happy with such a sacrifice on her part?
She was annoyed that I disagreed with her and asked me to post this hoping to pick up someone who would argue her side against me. :wink::p

She still feels that making me suffer through her death, assuming that she knew it was coming and I was still young enough to enjoy life, would be terrible. I disagree.

She was annoyed that I disagreed with her and asked me to post this hoping to pick up someone who would argue her side against me. :wink::p

I could argue it if you want. You gotta give me a couple of minutes to come up with something that sounds rational, though.

She was annoyed that I disagreed with her and asked me to post this hoping to pick up someone who would argue her side against me. :wink::p

She still feels that making me suffer through her death, assuming that she knew it was coming and I was still young enough to enjoy life, would be terrible. I disagree.
it would indeed be a terrible thing for you. but you would go through it even if she walked away and you never heard from her again.

sticking with your terminally ill wife would make you a better catch for the next woman you would want to marry. what good woman would take a man who had divorced his dying wife?

She was annoyed that I disagreed with her and asked me to post this hoping to pick up someone who would argue her side against me. :wink::p

She still feels that making me suffer through her death, assuming that she knew it was coming and I was still young enough to enjoy life, would be terrible. I disagree.

just explain the mistresses you already have on the side will provide you enough comfort through her slow and painful death.

I don't think there's anything about the act that makes it either inherently selfless or selfish - I think that is determined by the reasoning and cultural norms behind it.

If you come from a culture where self-sacrafice to strengthen the family unit/avoid being a burden on others is considered to be desirable, then yes, it is a selfless act because you are putting others first before your own wishes. If however you come from a culture where the expectation is to stay together no matter what ('in sickness and in health') then yes, it becomes more selfish.

I guess that possibility would at some point cross your mind, just as I think that at some point I'd very likely apologize to my partner for what I'm putting him through (though of course it's not my fault) and might even tell him that I understood if he split up with me because it was all too much - except that, while I'd understand it, I'd also be terribly upset and disappointed and heartbroken if he did.
See, I argued that would be selfless. If, in that situation, if you said, "I understand that what you're going through with me is very hard and if you ever can't take it anymore and you want to go, I understand" that would be considerate of your spouse's feelings and still allowing them an out. It is far different from saying, "I'm dying so I want you to divorce me so that I won't be a burden on you" because that does NOT take into account your spouse's feelings about you and your marriage. The first gives him the key to set himself free if he so chooses, the second tells him to go.

But I'm not buying that there's many women who are so afraid of being left that they, on top of getting the diagnosis of a terminal illness, will go force a divorce. Unless of course they have reason to be afraid, i.e. unless Japanese men are known to resent & leave their terminally ill spouses.
Japanese guys are known for not being all that well equipped to deal with emotional tasks like this. But, then again, who is?

Or maybe Japanese women are just culturally expected to never be a burden for their husbands or something, I wouldn't know.
The old school does hold this to be true, and I don't know how many times I've had to tell my wife to ignore her mother when she says the same.

See, I argued that would be selfless. If, in that situation, if you said, "I understand that what you're going through with me is very hard and if you ever can't take it anymore and you want to go, I understand" that would be considerate of your spouse's feelings and still allowing them an out. It is far different from saying, "I'm dying so I want you to divorce me so that I won't be a burden on you" because that does NOT take into account your spouse's feelings about you and your marriage. The first gives him the key to set himself free if he so chooses, the second tells him to go.
So what did your wife say to that? Does she think forcing a divorce is still good because basically "you just don't know what's good for you, so I'd have to force a divorce in order to protect you" or something?

So this exonerate the behavior of Newt Gingrich in regards to his first divorce?

So what did your wife say to that? Does she think forcing a divorce is still good because basically "you just don't know what's good for you, so I'd have to force a divorce in order to protect you" or something?
More along the lines of she wouldn't want me to have to deal with her suffering because it would be a very hard situation. And if she did divorce me, I'd have a lot of free time to do whatever I wanted to to do and could play more with our son instead of taking care of a sick wife.

More along the lines of she wouldn't want me to have to deal with her suffering because it would be a very hard situation. And if she did divorce me, I'd have a lot of free time to do whatever I wanted to to do and could play more with our son instead of taking care of a sick wife.
what if you were the one who got sick? would she want you to divorce her so that she could have more quality time with your son?

what if you were the one who got sick? would she want you to divorce her so that she could have more quality time with your son?
I tried that, she said that she would be very sad and very hurt that I asked her for a divorce, but since it would be my dying wish...

More along the lines of she wouldn't want me to have to deal with her suffering because it would be a very hard situation. And if she did divorce me, I'd have a lot of free time to do whatever I wanted to to do and could play more with our son instead of taking care of a sick wife.

also you got to find a new mom for your son

also you got to find a new mom for your son
That too quite possibly.

The old school does hold this to be true, and I don't know how many times I've had to tell my wife to ignore her mother when she says the same.

Damn gaijin invading pure countries and changing their cultures.

j/k

The wife shouldn't *expect* her husband to take care of her. He should do so for the sake of old times but it would be a boon to her not an entitlement.

More along the lines of she wouldn't want me to have to deal with her suffering because it would be a very hard situation. And if she did divorce me, I'd have a lot of free time to do whatever I wanted to to do and could play more with our son instead of taking care of a sick wife.

I tried that, she said that she would be very sad and very hurt that I asked her for a divorce, but since it would be my dying wish...
So she would divorce you in order not to hurt you and make you sad but acknowledges that she would be very hurt and very sad if you divorced her?

Did you point that out to her?

I tried that, she said that she would be very sad and very hurt that I asked her for a divorce, but since it would be my dying wish...
o

thats a definite cultural difference.

The wife shouldn't *expect* her husband to take care of her. He should do so for the sake of old times but it would be a boon to her not an entitlement.
So you're saying this is basically the same as me (in a Western country) offering my partner an out but being hurt if he actually took it? Just a bit more extreme?

But surely then him expressing that he'd never leave her should be accepted, secretly happy, no?

So she would divorce you in order not to hurt you and make you sad but acknowledges that she would be very hurt and very sad if you divorced her?

Did you point that out to her?
Of course, but this was an argument between a husband and wife, not an NSG debate. Logic and consistency has very little to do with it. :wink::p

Of course, but this was an argument between a husband and wife, not an NSG debate. Logic and consistency has very little to do with it. :wink::p

lol yeah. I am surprised there was a way for you to answer with out being hit.

So you're saying this is basically the same as me (in a Western country) offering my partner an out but being hurt if he actually took it? Just a bit more extreme?

But surely then him expressing that he'd never leave her should be accepted, secretly happy, no?

I don't know. A neurotically self-sacrificing/altruistic Japanese wife may very well be depressed that the husband refuses to take the out.

Of course, but this was an argument between a husband and wife, not an NSG debate. Logic and consistency has very little to do with it. :wink::p

Hehe. But no, I mean, surely if she knows how she would feel in such a situation she's able to acknowledge you'd feel the same and thus not make you go through it seeing how you just told her you wouldn't want to.

I can see her point. not wanting to put you and your children through the suffering. I would say it's a little of both. I would remind her that...
she is being selfish in that she is taking the choice out of your hands.
she is removing the opportunities you and your children have in making the most of her life and the memories of the times you have left.
and she is removing you from her life when she should be relying on you and family the most.

maybe its cultural.

i feel strongly that anyone with a dying spouse (who they loved) would want to be there for every possible moment, would be devastated to lose them and could not bear the thought that their beloved was dying alone.

i dont think its selfish; its very wrong headed.

^^^This...Her intentions are good but, I think it would be even more painful for the spouse to not be there...

It doesn't make sense. If you divorced her on her wishes like that, who'd pay her hospital bills until she finally croaks? I mean, she could still probably leave her worldly possessions to her children or something, so inheritance isn't an issue, but the healthcare certainly is. And why would anyone go to the trouble of paying all those legal fees, especially when the reasoning would have a hard time standing up in court.... plus alimony et cetera.... yeah, probably not worth it.

At least not in the US. Maybe that stuff's easier in Japan, I don't know.

I understand the way your wife feels, and I think I would proceed exactly like she says she will if she ever becomes terminally ill. Maybe it's selfish, maybe it's an act of selflessness, I don't know. I just don't think it's fair to make a loved one stick and watch you wither, slowly and painfully, and then watch you die. *shrugs*

I don't think it's cultural -- my Japanese family in Japan disagrees with this notion, but then again they're very liberal. What program is it? I have NHK through cable, so I might be able to watch some episodes.


It seems like an extremely awkward situation. I'd understand if the child is very young, but to simply cut loose your family to avoid dealing with death does not seem very respectful. A lot of "cultural" things seem to be pretentious; deep down I think the she would rather have family at her deathbed, rather than dying alone.

I don't think it's cultural -- my Japanese family in Japan disagrees with this notion, but then again they're very liberal.
It is cultural. If your Japanese family is "very liberal" they probably don't represent the mainstream of Japanese culture.


It seems like an extremely awkward situation. I'd understand if the child is very young, but to simply cut loose your family to avoid dealing with death does not seem very respectful. A lot of "cultural" things seem to be pretentious; deep down I think the she would rather have family at her deathbed, rather than dying alone.

It's not really pretentious if in the society husbands actually are known to take up the wife's offer (of leaving her). Macabre, yes, pretentious, no. There's a reason women have higher rates of suicide than men in Eastern societies, compared to the west where men have higher rates of suicide; women aren't indulged (to say the least) in eastern societies, although nowadays that's changing (as evidenced by your liberal family).

Thank You JuNii...

Quoted for the Truth.

I can see her point. not wanting to put you and your children through the suffering. I would say it's a little of both. I would remind her that...
she is being selfish in that she is taking the choice out of your hands.
she is removing the opportunities you and your children have in making the most of her life and the memories of the times you have left.
and she is removing you from her life when she should be relying on you and family the most.

Just the point of view from one woman who has faced down cancer.

It's not really pretentious if in the society husbands actually are known to take up the wife's offer (of leaving her). Macabre, yes, pretentious, no. There's a reason women have higher rates of suicide than men in Eastern societies, compared to the west where men have higher rates of suicide; women aren't indulged (to say the least) in eastern societies, although nowadays that's changing (as evidenced by your liberal family).

Lets not make this a culture war Pissarro.

I understand the way your wife feels, and I think I would proceed exactly like she says she will if she ever becomes terminally ill. Maybe it's selfish, maybe it's an act of selflessness, I don't know. I just don't think it's fair to make a loved one stick and watch you wither, slowly and painfully, and then watch you die. *shrugs*
its not fair to make your spouse who no longer loves you stay with you to watch you die.

if your spouse still loves you he would not want to be seperated from you and would be desolate to think of you dying alone.

so its "noble" to give him an out but its cruel to force him to go when he doesnt want to.

Its a shitty thing to force a divorce just because you're dying. If I married someone it would be because I truly did want to spend my life with them and only them, and if they are dying I will be there to make that dying as comfortable as possible and I would forever let them know I loved them.

Its a shitty thing to force a divorce just because you're dying. If I married someone it would be because I truly did want to spend my life with them and only them, and if they are dying I will be there to make that dying as comfortable as possible and I would forever let them know I loved them.
aye.

after all, if it were your mother who was dying would you abandon her to spare yourself the pain of watching her die? only those who hate their mothers would do that (not that there arent people who have good reason to hate and abandon their mothers).

why would it be more acceptable to abandon your wife (if you wouldnt want to divorce her if she was well)?

maybe its cultural.

i feel strongly that anyone with a dying spouse (who they loved) would want to be there for every possible moment, would be devastated to lose them and could not bear the thought that their beloved was dying alone.

i dont think its selfish; its very wrong headed.

Yeah me too. You would never get to say goodbye. That would be terrible. I can understand not wanting to burden your family but this maybe too far. Sometime those last few years seem longer and more meaningful.

aye.

after all, if it were your mother who was dying would you abandon her to spare yourself the pain of watching her die? only those who hate their mothers would do that (not that there arent people who have good reason to hate and abandon their mothers).

why would it be more acceptable to abandon your wife (if you wouldnt want to divorce her if she was well)?

Its not acceptable; but different cultures had different standards, women in Japan were for the longest time pretty much the same as house pets...

I think that would be like running out on someone in their darkest hour. Of course it won't be easy but I think I would still want to be there.

I understand the way your wife feels, and I think I would proceed exactly like she says she will if she ever becomes terminally ill. Maybe it's selfish, maybe it's an act of selflessness, I don't know. I just don't think it's fair to make a loved one stick and watch you wither, slowly and painfully, and then watch you die. *shrugs*
it is hard. but really, if it were me, and my wife was going though cancer. I would want to stay by her side. because, the marriage oath I would've taken would say "though sickness and health..." and If my actions can aliviate the pain, even for a second, then that is one second she would be without pain.

I understand the way your wife feels, and I think I would proceed exactly like she says she will if she ever becomes terminally ill. Maybe it's selfish, maybe it's an act of selflessness, I don't know. I just don't think it's fair to make a loved one stick and watch you wither, slowly and painfully, and then watch you die. *shrugs*

See though, I see it like this. There's a pain tolerance and a pain level to everything. Forcing a divorce against the person's wishes raises the pain level of this ordeal from a 9 to a 10 for both parties. Not only have you lost your spouse (or your life), but you've also lost your partner, and that seems to be a greater ordeal than it would be simply to lose your spouse or your life.

Just the point of view from one woman who has faced down cancer.

and how are you doing? completely cured?

See though, I see it like this. There's a pain tolerance and a pain level to everything. Forcing a divorce against the person's wishes raises the pain level of this ordeal from a 9 to a 10 for both parties. Not only have you lost your spouse (or your life), but you've also lost your partner, and that seems to be a greater ordeal than it would be simply to lose your spouse or your life.

I can't answer this right now, not now.

Lets not make this a culture war Pissarro.

:( Damn, culture wars were my hobby too...

I can't answer this right now, not now.

you going to have to get married, get cancer, then divorce your spouse over cancer first.
So hop to it. we need you to conduct the experiment.

you going to have to get married, get cancer, then divorce your spouse over cancer first.
So hop to it. we need you to conduct the experiment.

Greed... not tonight. I don't have snarky remarks or witty-comebacks to give.

Greed... not tonight. I don't have snarky remarks or witty-comebacks to give.

you've been drinking haven't you ?

you've been drinking haven't you ?

Yes. I think I need poison now. Night!:tongue:

Yes. I think I need poison now. Night!:tongue:

you didn't send me any alcohol you were drinking so i could drink with you :(

Hehe. But no, I mean, surely if she knows how she would feel in such a situation she's able to acknowledge you'd feel the same and thus not make you go through it seeing how you just told her you wouldn't want to.
She acknowledges it, yes. But to her mind, since it would be my final wish, if the situation was reversed, she would have no choice but to honor it.

It doesn't make sense. If you divorced her on her wishes like that, who'd pay her hospital bills until she finally croaks? I mean, she could still probably leave her worldly possessions to her children or something, so inheritance isn't an issue, but the healthcare certainly is. And why would anyone go to the trouble of paying all those legal fees, especially when the reasoning would have a hard time standing up in court.... plus alimony et cetera.... yeah, probably not worth it.

At least not in the US. Maybe that stuff's easier in Japan, I don't know.
The divorce laws in Japan are a little odd, there is no such thing as a no-fault divorce, though if both sides agree to it, it can be over fairly quickly. Japan also has a public health system that would cover most of the costs so...

I don't think it's cultural -- my Japanese family in Japan disagrees with this notion, but then again they're very liberal. What program is it? I have NHK through cable, so I might be able to watch some episodes.
Uh... I don't know the name of it. It shows up on Friday nights from 9ish or 10ish. Look for the show where the audience members are all women wearing what looks like old style military uniforms in bad colors.

It seems like an extremely awkward situation. I'd understand if the child is very young, but to simply cut loose your family to avoid dealing with death does not seem very respectful. A lot of "cultural" things seem to be pretentious; deep down I think the she would rather have family at her deathbed, rather than dying alone.
You'd think, but suffering nobly seems to be a Japanese pastime.

it is hard. but really, if it were me, and my wife was going though cancer. I would want to stay by her side. because, the marriage oath I would've taken would say "though sickness and health..." and If my actions can aliviate the pain, even for a second, then that is one second she would be without pain.
That's what I told her, that I take those vows very seriously and what kind of husband would I be if I ran when things were not good. Being married means sticking through the good times and the bad.

That's what I told her, that I take those vows very seriously and what kind of husband would I be if I ran when things were not good. Being married means sticking through the good times and the bad.

Thats just your backwards westernized beleifs talking.

Newt Gringrich wishes he had your wife.

Newt Gringrich wishes he had your wife.

dont say that we will never get him to leave Japan then.

you didn't send me any alcohol you were drinking so i could drink with you :(

I finished it all. What can I say, I'm a greedy wench. *sighs*

I finished it all. What can I say, I'm a greedy wench. *sighs*

Only when it comes to booze.

Only when it comes to booze.

You know it, bud. But shhhh... That's a secret between you and me.:)

You know it, bud. But shhhh... That's a secret between you and me.:)

Ok I won't tell anyone about that half gallon of Absinth we were supposed to share when we were in Norway...

I finished it all. What can I say, I'm a greedy wench. *sighs*

well you owe me alcohol. 1 gallon of Spanish liquor

Ok I won't tell anyone about that half gallon of Absinth we were supposed to share when we were in Norway...

You know you guzzled it with Snafturi. And then you two ditched me to make snow angels and almost froze your asses to death. Take that, absinthe crooks! ;)

well you owe me alcohol. 1 gallon of Spanish liquor

And just what you think it's Spanish liquor?

Wait, does this has anything to do with the OP?:eek2:

And just what you think it's Spanish liquor?

Wait, does this has anything to do with the OP?:eek2:

yeah your being selfish.
And I am being selfless.

yeah your being selfish.
And I am being selfless.

Ah, I rather like this logic of yours. But, one question: Don't you know we girls are selfish?:wink:

You know you guzzled it with Snafturi. And then you two ditched me to make snow angels and almost froze your asses to death. Take that, absinthe crooks! ;)

<.< Did not! As I recall it was all you.. but I don't really recall now that i think about it.

Ah, I rather like this logic of yours. But, one question: Don't you know we girls are selfish?:wink:

you only get to be selfish if your sleeping with me. then you got to share.

<.< Did not! As I recall it was all you.. but I don't really recall now that i think about it.

Of course you don't remember. I had to bail you both out of jail. You even tried to speak Norse and ended up giving the cops a whole chapter of Lord Of the Rings, in Queenya. I had fun, though. <.<

And I made tons of cash selling those pics over eBay. >.>

you only get to be selfish if your sleeping with me. then you got to share.

I don't follow you. :eek:

Of course you don't remember. I had to bail you both out of jail. You even tried to speak Norse and ended up giving the cops a whole chapter of Lord Of the Rings, in Queenya. I had fun, though. <.<

And I made tons of cash selling those pics over eBay. >.>

Yeah and I never did get my royalties :mad:

What about that time in Kenya when I had to seduce the chiftain (chieftess?) of that Amazonian type tribe to prevent them from kidnapping you and brainwashing you to become a warrior lesbian? I think we are equal on the saving each other count! Even though I do admit the thought of Nanatsu the Amazon Lesbian Warrior was hawt!

I don't follow you. :eek:

If no sex. Then share the booze.

Yeah and I never did get my royalties :mad:

The checks bounced! It wasn't my fault!

What about that time in Kenya when I had to seduce the chiftain (chieftess?) of that Amazonian type tribe to prevent them from kidnapping you and brainwashing you to become a warrior lesbian? I think we are equal on the saving each other count! Even though I do admit the thought of Nanatsu the Amazon Lesbian Warrior was hawt!

You know as well as I do that you even went so far as making inflatable dolls of me in that skimpy, leopard outfit. I saw the designs, I know you talked to Greed and Death to sell the royalties to Africa. But I went and saved your ass in Norway. Thank me for it, at least.

If no sex. Then share the booze.

Must I remind you that I have a restraining order against you and your bunny-moves?:eek2:

You know as well as I do that you even went so far as making inflatable dolls of me in that skimpy, leopard outfit. I saw the designs, I know you talked to Greed and Death to sell the royalties to Africa. But I went and saved your ass in Norway. Thank me for it, at least.

we made good money doing that.

Must I remind you that I have a restraining order against you and your bunny-moves?:eek2:

all i am asking for is my share of the alcohol.

we made good money doing that.

Yes, I know. Now Hammurab can't have normal sex unless there's latex and plastic involved.

You know as well as I do that you even went so far as making inflatable dolls of me in that skimpy, leopard outfit. I saw the designs, I know you talked to Greed and Death to sell the royalties to Africa. But I went and saved your ass in Norway. Thank me for it, at least.

That was Catherine Zeta... ok it was you :(

That was Catherine Zeta... ok it was you :(

Of course it was me. Jhahannam popped 2 of those dolls trying to make me agree to marry him.:mad:

Yes, I know. Now Hammurab can't have normal sex unless there's latex and plastic involved.

he did order half of the stock. I kept telling him if he took the piercings out he wouldn't pop them so often.

he did order half of the stock. I kept telling him if he took the piercings out he wouldn't pop them so often.

It was the clit piercing. It was his undoing. Now he's raving mad and speaks about having a plastic fetish.:(

It was the clit piercing. It was his undoing. Now he's raving mad and speaks about having a plastic fetish.:(

i thought it was his 7 step Jacobs ladder with a prince Albert on top.

i thought it was his 7 step Jacobs ladder with a prince Albert on top.

Coupled to the clit piercing, yes.

It was the clit piercing. It was his undoing. Now he's raving mad and speaks about having a plastic fetish.:(

I always thought that was normal for him

Coupled to the clit piercing, yes.

glad i took mine out. had too any issues when i hooked up with pierced chicks.

I always thought that was normal for him

It was, until he saw the model of the double DD doll. He was doomed then.

It was, until he saw the model of the double DD doll. He was doomed then.

you have double DD's???:eek:

It was, until he saw the model of the double DD doll. He was doomed then.

Its a damn shame you sued me before that one got into production...

you have double DD's???:eek:

Not me, but that doll model did.

Not me, but that doll model did.

i was about to say i could have sworn the ase i took while you were asleep was F cups.

Its a damn shame you sued me before that one got into production...

Well, it served you right. It was too much, I have nice breasts, but double DDs? Outrageous.

i was about to say i could have sworn the ase i took while you were asleep was F cups.

You're dead.:gundge:

Well, it served you right. It was too much, I have nice breasts, but double DDs? Outrageous.

*mutters*
You do have nice breasts :$

I was just trying to appeal to the big naturals crowed, and it was the prototype for the new line, that said kinky phrases in spanish and realistic features...

I was gonna pay you after I made back the lost royalties from the Ebay pictures.

*mutters*
You do have nice breasts :$

I was just trying to appeal to the big naturals crowed, and it was the prototype for the new line, that said kinky phrases in spanish and realistic features...

I was gonna pay you after I made back the lost royalties from the Ebay pictures.

i dont know. I kept translating it from Spanish to English and kept asking for milk on her face. how is that a sexy phrase ?

*mutters*
You do have nice breasts :$

I was just trying to appeal to the big naturals crowed, and it was the prototype for the new line, that said kinky phrases in spanish and realistic features...

I was gonna pay you after I made back the lost royalties from the Ebay pictures.

Why, thanks. I like my breasts too.

The problem is that now we're being sued by Hammurab's family for driving him mad. *sighs*

i dont know. I kept translating it from Spanish to English and kept asking for milk on her face. how is that a sexy phrase ?

I can make it sexy, you know. Especially if I lisp. :D

Why, thanks. I like my breasts too.

The problem is that now we're being sued by Hammurab's family for driving him mad. *sighs*

wait your breast have their own estate ???

I can make it sexy, you know. Especially if I lisp. :D

send a recording to prove it ?

send a recording to prove it ?

Ask my Keeper for permission.

Ask my Keeper for permission.

who's your keeper.

who's your keeper.

Ah, that, my friend, is the secret. In other words, you're pretty much screwed. *nod*

who's your keeper.

No its not me.

No its not me.

Nope, you're my partner in crime. You know that if Hammurab's family has it their way, we're gonna be cell-mates? We're fucked. This is what happens when selfishness and selflessness collide.:(

Ah, that, my friend, is the secret. In other words, you're pretty much screwed. *nod*

or i can just pay someone to take pictures of you in the shower.

or i can just pay someone to take pictures of you in the shower.

I know people on the Italian mafia... <.<

Nope, you're my partner in crime. You know that if Hammurab's family has it their way, we're gonna be cell-mates? We're fucked. This is what happens when selfishness and selflessness collide.:(

i don't know what happened. but i do know your both going to jail, and i got all the profit.

i don't know what happened. but i do know your both going to jail, and i got all the profit.

Damn you.:mad:

I know people on the Italian mafia... <.<

good they likely already have pictures of you in the shower.

good they likely already have pictures of you in the shower.

Ok, I'm too tired to argue. You need to make an appointment with my Keeper. My photos are subject to common's license, my Keeper has all the rights. *yawns*

Nope, you're my partner in crime. You know that if Hammurab's family has it their way, we're gonna be cell-mates? We're fucked. This is what happens when selfishness and selflessness collide.:(

Hey, at least we'll get to share a cell so it aint all bad. We can play board games and recall old times together.

Hey, at least we'll get to share a cell so it aint all bad. We can play board games and recall old times together.

True, it could be worse. We could be sharing the cell with a sex freak or something. And I will smuggle the absinthe. Fun times are ahead!:D

True, it could be worse. We could be sharing the cell with a sex freak or something. And I will smuggle the absinthe. Fun times are ahead!:D

its a private prison I opened with the profits from the dolls. jsut ignore the cameras in the shower area

JuNii

and how are you doing? completely cured?

Thanks for asking

2004... I thought it was all done but this weekend I've found a mass in the inside of my right arm, deep and close to the bone, just above the elbow. It's not a knotted muscle and it's making the last three fingers in my hand act paralysed. Going to the doc as soon as possible. So I'm a little worried.

its a private prison I opened with the profits from the dolls. jsut ignore the cameras in the shower area

Don't keep any in the cell, you'd just be loosing profits.

Don't keep any in the cell, you'd just be loosing profits.

the internet has plenty of gay chubby chasers

the internet has plenty of gay chubby chasers

*vanishes*

SaintB. I will reduce your sentence if you catch Nanatsu

SaintB. I will reduce your sentence if you catch Nanatsu

Ay pero que morro!:rolleyes:

JuNii

Thanks for asking

2004... I thought it was all done but this weekend I've found a mass in the inside of my right arm, deep and close to the bone, just above the elbow. It's not a knotted muscle and it's making the last three fingers in my hand act paralysed. Going to the doc as soon as possible. So I'm a little worried.

ouch... if you don't mind a prayer for things to be ok...

ouch... if you don't mind a prayer for things to be ok...

Careful, a statement like that can start a flamewar here.

Ok, I'm too tired to argue. You need to make an appointment with my Keeper. My photos are subject to common's license, my Keeper has all the rights. *yawns*

oh Nanatsu, why must you torture me so! :(

In reference to the OP:

I judge whether or not an act is selfish not by its effects, but by its intent (where possible, obviously). So, if her intent really was to spare her husband the pain and suffering of watching her die, it is not a selfish action. I think it would be misguided, but not selfish.

oh Nanatsu, why must you torture me so! :(

We need to meet this Keeper.

Careful, a statement like that can start a flamewar here.

which is why I am asking before doing any praying. A common courtsey that I offer anyone. if Tanaara perfers not to, then I'm ok with it. it's by no way holding Tanaara to anything he or she is not comfortable with.

this is between Tanaara and me, if anyone wants to offer encouraging words, then please, let them do so. :cool:

maybe its cultural.

i feel strongly that anyone with a dying spouse (who they loved) would want to be there for every possible moment, would be devastated to lose them and could not bear the thought that their beloved was dying alone.

i dont think its selfish; its very wrong headed.

Presumably the couple loved each other. In which case, the 'freedom' of the divorce avails the husband nothing. Divorcing will not stop her mortality, so he is still aware of, and likely in pain over her terminal state... but now he has to go through it without her.

I imagine that the ex-husband is in proverbial hell.

JuNii



Thanks for asking

2004... I thought it was all done but this weekend I've found a mass in the inside of my right arm, deep and close to the bone, just above the elbow. It's not a knotted muscle and it's making the last three fingers in my hand act paralysed. Going to the doc as soon as possible. So I'm a little worried.

Sorry to hear it. Hope things go well at the Doctor's. Like JuNii was asking, would you consider a prayer to be alright?

All prayers are welcome. I may not follow a major religion, but I always appreciate folk's thoughtful actions.

And a heartfelt thank you for them, JuNii, and Geniasis.

I see the doc in about ten hours.

oh Nanatsu, why must you torture me so! :(

Gomen asai, JuNii-kun. I'll stop doing that. :wink:

This thread hits close to home, so I will come out of lurking for this post.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm basically just responding to the OP.

While the wife's motives in divorcing her husband might be to attempt to spare him the torment of watching her slowly die, it wouldn't work at all. If the husband loves her, not being legally married to her anymore isn't going to relieve any of the pain at all. If anything, it makes it worse because it places him in an awkward position, and unable to be with her during her last months.

My father died a couple years ago from cancer. It's a death I wouldn't wish on anyone. But my mom was there for him. My parents were in love to the very end. My mother still wears her wedding ring. And it was not easy in my father's last few months. My father was depressed at times (this may seem obvious, since he was dying, but it was more due to the fact that the manner of how he was dying kept him from doing much of anything), and chemo therapy is not easy. But it was good for them to be with each other in those last few months. As strange as it may sound, I felt very lucky to have the family I do at that time. As everyone came together and was really supportive.

If I was married and my wife was diagnosed with a terminal illness, I would want to be there for her, to the bitter end, even though I know it would be incredibly painful to have to watch someone you care so deeply about die over a period of months or years. And if I was married, I'd want my wife to feel the same way about me.

That is all.

Damn it, now I'm crying.

when people (grow up enough to) realize they still have to live in the world their priorities help to create, the two THEN somewhat converge!

This thread hits close to home, so I will come out of lurking for this post.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm basically just responding to the OP.

While the wife's motives in divorcing her husband might be to attempt to spare him the torment of watching her slowly die, it wouldn't work at all. If the husband loves her, not being legally married to her anymore isn't going to relieve any of the pain at all. If anything, it makes it worse because it places him in an awkward position, and unable to be with her during her last months.

My father died a couple years ago from cancer. It's a death I wouldn't wish on anyone. But my mom was there for him. My parents were in love to the very end. My mother still wears her wedding ring. And it was not easy in my father's last few months. My father was depressed at times (this may seem obvious, since he was dying, but it was more due to the fact that the manner of how he was dying kept him from doing much of anything), and chemo therapy is not easy. But it was good for them to be with each other in those last few months. As strange as it may sound, I felt very lucky to have the family I do at that time. As everyone came together and was really supportive.

If I was married and my wife was diagnosed with a terminal illness, I would want to be there for her, to the bitter end, even though I know it would be incredibly painful to have to watch someone you care so deeply about die over a period of months or years. And if I was married, I'd want my wife to feel the same way about me.

That is all.

Damn it, now I'm crying.

*huggles*
It's ok.