NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bristol_palin

Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up.

Beautiful.

Sucks for the poor hick boy who now has a random city in England tattooed on his ring finger.

I wish people would stop using Palin's daughter as evidence that her political philosophy is wrong. It's much simpler to use, you know, statistics and stuff; there's no need to hound her poor daughter.

I wish people would stop using Palin's daughter as evidence that her political philosophy is wrong. It's much simpler to use, you know, statistics and stuff; there's no need to hound her poor daughter.

Not really. McCain made ugly jokes about the Clinton's daughter. Kind of begs the question of the character of the man.

or what about the shrub and all his family values BS and then you look at his daughters antics.....

I don't know, I do somewhat agree that Sarah Palin and her family were used and abused by the John McCain campaign, just such a poor decision to nominate her as VP, incredible really.

Then to pretend that these two kids loved each other, to make them lie to the media when it was obvious it was a mistaken pregnancy, it's all rather sad.

I somewhat feel sorry for the Palin family, they're much like many other families and they've been dragged through the mud.

Sure one can blame Sarah Palin but she was essentially just naive, I just can't believe people thought this situation would just fly given her stances.

The John McCain campaign should go down as one of the worst in history.

The election ended last year, nobody gives a fuck about the Palins any more, they're just a boring bunch of irrelevant republicans.

Not really. McCain made ugly jokes about the Clinton's daughter. Kind of begs the question of the character of the man.
So because her running mate (not even Palin herself) said nasty things about the Clintons, attacking Palin's daughter is okay? I have no problem with people saying cruel things about Sarah Palin: not only do I dislike her policies, but as a public figure she should expect them. I do object to people using what I have to imagine was a traumatic experience of one of her children to attack her. It's no better than McCain's attacks.

I have an insider-story on the name Sarah suggested for her grandkid!

Backseat.

I don't know, I do somewhat agree that Sarah Palin and her family were used and abused by the John McCain campaign, just such a poor decision to nominate her as VP, incredible really.

Then to pretend that these two kids loved each other, to make them lie to the media when it was obvious it was a mistaken pregnancy, it's all rather sad.

I somewhat feel sorry for the Palin family, they're much like many other families and they've been dragged through the mud.

Sure one can blame Sarah Palin but she was essentially just naive, I just can't believe people thought this situation would just fly given her stances.

The John McCain campaign should go down as one of the worst in history.

You can't be naive and go through politics to become a governor of a state.

She is just as guilty as him. Maybe worst to want to subject her family to that.

I don't feel sorry for her. She is a nasty individual.

White people. *shakes head*

You can't be naive and go through politics to become a governor of a state.

She is just as guilty as him. Maybe worst to want to subject her family to that.

I don't feel sorry for her. She is a nasty individual.

Perhaps,

It was just a stupid decision by John McCain, utterly stupid, the more I reflect on it the more I just think it was an appalling choice.

She was G'nor of Alaska, hardly a state subject to much media scrutiny, mostly known for serious corruption but then that just underlines the utterly stupid decision it was.

Yeah, that wedding wasnt being forced at all.

I knew I should have bet money.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bristol_palin

Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up.

What do 2 adults deciding to break up have to do with one of their parents? It's not like Sarah Palin can force them to stay together or get married.

What do 2 adults deciding to break up have to do with one of their parents? It's not like Sarah Palin can force them to stay together or get married.

Sure seemed like it back when Bible Spice was trying to get elected.

Perhaps,

It was just a stupid decision by John McCain, utterly stupid, the more I reflect on it the more I just think it was an appalling choice.

She was G'nor of Alaska, hardly a state subject to much media scrutiny, mostly known for serious corruption but then that just underlines the utterly stupid decision it was.
I do think it's funny how at the beginning she was being called the new face of the Republican party. Then the election happened, and suddenly she wasn't the face of the party. "How about that Jindal guy?" "Yeah, he's the face of the...ooh, maybe not." I'm curious to see who the next incarnation will be.

Yeah, that wedding wasnt being forced at all.
Well, it wasn't. Otherwise they would be married.

I do think it's funny how at the beginning she was being called the new face of the Republican party. Then the election happened, and suddenly she wasn't the face of the party. "How about that Jindal guy?" "Yeah, he's the face of the...ooh, maybe not." I'm curious to see who the next incarnation will be.

So... "Stupid bimbo whose kid practices what she preaches only to a point and then gets screwed over for it anyways" could be the new face of the Republican Party?

Excellent.

So because her running mate (not even Palin herself) said nasty things about the Clintons, attacking Palin's daughter is okay? I have no problem with people saying cruel things about Sarah Palin: not only do I dislike her policies, but as a public figure she should expect them. I do object to people using what I have to imagine was a traumatic experience of one of her children to attack her. It's no better than McCain's attacks.

Normally, I think children are off limits.

However, when you portray yourself as the party of morality and decency; such mistakes are fair game. Especially, when the party talks crap about the poor and their mistakes.

She didn't have to parade her children around for photo ops. Ever notice that you rarely if ever see Arnie's children?

Well, it wasn't. Otherwise they would be married.

Its not politically important for her anymore.

Sure seemed like it back when Bible Spice was trying to get elected.

You have some proof that she tried to force them to get married? And you didn't answer my first question.

Its not politically important for her anymore.

Sorta. Given that she's losing quite a bit of face with this it might be.

Sorta. Given that she's losing quite a bit of face with this it might be.

I dont think its losing her any face.

Its just lulz for those of us who are enjoying the Sarah Palin stupidity cake.

You have some proof that she tried to force them to get married? And you didn't answer my first question.

These adults got together in the first place to earn political points.

Had Palin not been picked by McCain, do you think Palin wouldn't have simply gotten her daughter an abortion in private and then keep on signing her bits of legislation against it in public?

I dont think its losing her any face.

Its just lulz for those of us who are enjoying the Sarah Palin stupidity cake.

Mmm.

Ah well. The "Backseat" joke didn't catch, eh?

You have some proof that she tried to force them to get married? And you didn't answer my first question.

Maybe not forced but certainly highly pressured, the guy had already written in his blog/Facebook whatever as to his opinion on getting married in general.

I certainly think there was a huge amount of pressure on them to make it seem like a wholesome family decision when it was simply a mistake between two kids fucking around, what else you gonna do in Alaska.

Boring. Could we talk about something interesting?

Normally, I think children are off limits.

However, when you portray yourself as the party of morality and decency; such mistakes are fair game. Especially, when the party talks crap about the poor and their mistakes.

It's certainly ironic, and fitting, that Sarah Palin's daughter would have a child out of wedlock. But the election was in November, and now these stories are less about "Hmm, maybe abstinence-only education isn't always reliable" to using a single, teenage mother as a source of cheap laughs.

If you would like to see more of my Bristol Palin defense, please view my YouTube video: "LEAVE BRISTOL ALONE!!!," with guest star Chris Crocker.

Boring. Could we talk about something interesting?

There's, like, 30 other threads to choose from.

Its not politically important for her anymore.
Oh, I'm sure they certainly felt pressured into marrying, and if Palin were vice-president, they would probably still be engaged. But Todd Palin wasn't holding a shotgun; the couple did not feel forced enough to stay engaged.

There's, like, 30 other threads to choose from.

I see, I'm disrupting everyone's fapping. So sorry.

I see, I'm disrupting everyone's fapping. So sorry.

No problem.

*Faps*

These adults got together in the first place to earn political points.

Had Palin not been picked by McCain, do you think Palin wouldn't have simply gotten her daughter an abortion in private and then keep on signing her bits of legislation against it in public?

So, no man has ever proposed to his girlfriend after he got her pregnant? Also, where's your proof that Palin would have gotten her daughter an abortion? Finally, you STILL haven't answered my first question. What do 2 adults deciding to break up have to do with one of their parents?

So, no man has ever proposed to his girlfriend after he got her pregnant? Also, where's your proof that Palin would have gotten her daughter an abortion? Finally, you STILL haven't answered my first question. What do 2 adults deciding to break up have to do with one of their parents?

Reflects poorly on the 2 adults' upbringing and reflects poorly on the parent's parenting.

What do 2 adults deciding to break up have to do with one of their parents?

Quite a bit when said parent touted a style of education that got her daughter in her current situation: Teenage single mother.

The election ended last year, nobody gives a fuck about the Palins any more, they're just a boring bunch of irrelevant republicans.

Except to the Republicans who see her, Bobby Jindall and Joe the Plumber as their Great White Hopes for 2012.

So, no man has ever proposed to his girlfriend after he got her pregnant? Also, where's your proof that Palin would have gotten her daughter an abortion? Finally, you STILL haven't answered my first question. What do 2 adults deciding to break up have to do with one of their parents?

When the parents espouse true American wholesome family values, abstinence education, when one of them aspires to lead the nation under that banner, when they discover such an issue in their own family yet show little compassion for others in the same situation, when the kids are knowingly placed in front of the media spotlight, pressured into announcing they will get married, then it does have something to do with the parents.

Oh, I'm sure they certainly felt pressured into marrying, and if Palin were vice-president, they would probably still be engaged. But Todd Palin wasn't holding a shotgun; the couple did not feel forced enough to stay engaged.

No, he wasnt holding a shotgun. It was more of a "soft power" white wedding.

Had Palin not been picked by McCain, do you think Palin wouldn't have simply gotten her daughter an abortion in private and then keep on signing her bits of legislation against it in public?
No, I very much doubt Palin would have gotten her daughter an abortion. Why is it so hard to accept that Sarah Palin actually believes most of the nonsense she spouts?
No, he wasnt holding a shotgun. It was more of a "soft power" white wedding.
Maybe, but I think it's just as if not more likely the couple stayed engaged to avoid not the wrath of their parents but the public humiliation it would bring, nationally. I can't imagine either one is feeling too good right now; imagine how it would be if they broke up in October.

Except for the Republicans who see her, Bobby Jindall and Joe the Plumber as their Great White Hopes for 2012.

Scary.

Except for the Republicans who see her, Bobby Jindall and Joe the Plumber as their Great White Hopes for 2012.

Fuck 'em

No, I very much doubt Palin would have gotten her daughter an abortion. Why is it so hard to accept that Sarah Palin actually believes most of the nonsense she spouts?

Oh, she does. But she would say a sentence beginning with, and I quote:

"MY case is different because..."

Fuck 'em

Thats why this matters though. They need to suffer a beating for the next for years. Especially Palin. If for no other reason she tried to spark a mini-race riot. Because shes a psychotic bitch.

Thats why this matters though. They need to suffer a beating for the next for years. Especially Palin. If for no other reason she tried to spark a mini-race riot. Because shes a psychotic bitch.

All correct, except for the "mini".

Thats why this matters though. They need to suffer a beating for the next for years. Especially Palin. If for no other reason she tried to spark a mini-race riot. Because shes a psychotic bitch.
"Mini-race?" Which race is that? What are trying to imply, KoL? :wink:

"Mini-race?" Which race is that? What are trying to imply, KoL? :wink:

I just might cut you.


;)

Maybe not forced but certainly highly pressured, the guy had already written in his blog/Facebook whatever as to his opinion on getting married in general.

I certainly think there was a huge amount of pressure on them to make it seem like a wholesome family decision when it was simply a mistake between two kids fucking around, what else you gonna do in Alaska.

Did he write all that before he got Bristol pregnant? People talk about what they'd do in a certain situation, but when that situation comes up, they sometimes change their mind.

I'm not saying there wasn't some pressure (from her parents and maybe his parents), but to say that's the ONLY reason he proposed is making a lot of assumptions.

Did he write all that before he got Bristol pregnant? People talk about what they'd do in a certain situation, but when that situation comes up, they sometimes change their mind.

I'm not saying there wasn't some pressure (from her parents and maybe his parents), but to say that's the ONLY reason he proposed is making a lot of assumptions.

Sure, it's all assumptions, my main point is that it was a stupid decision to nominate her.

Oh, she does. But she would say a sentence beginning with, and I quote:

"MY case is different because..."

Still not convinced that she would do that. Might? Sure. But would? You haven't sold it well enough.

Reflects poorly on the 2 adults' upbringing and reflects poorly on the parent's parenting.

Because no child has done anything against their upbringing, against the parents parenting? My parents taught my sisters and I to wait until we were married to have sex (none of us listened). How is my sisters and I ignoring my parents advice my parents fault, or poor parenting by my parents?

Still not convinced that she would do that. Might? Sure. But would? You haven't sold it well enough.

Why do you have a picture of my mother on your avatar's face? o_O

Quite a bit when said parent touted a style of education that got her daughter in her current situation: Teenage single mother.

What got her daughter in her current situation was hormones, not a style of education. Her parents aren't able to control her hormones.

Because no child has done anything against their upbringing, against the parents parenting? My parents taught my sisters and I to wait until we were married to have sex (none of us listened). How is my sisters and I ignoring my parents advice my parents fault, or poor parenting by my parents?

Good parents know the importance of electroshock discipline.

What got her daughter in her current situation was hormones, not a style of education. Her parents aren't able to control her hormones.

...and not knowing about contraceptives. Which she has basically says that her parents didnt teach her about them, nor did her school (which is probably also partly because of her mom, being the Gov and all).

So, yeah, Palin does get the blame.

What got her daughter in her current situation was hormones, not a style of education. Her parents aren't able to control her hormones.

You know what might have prevented it? A condom. For instance.

You know what the abstinence-only education Palin proposes eschews? Condoms. For instance.

...and not knowing about contraceptives. Which she has basically says that her parents didnt teach her about them, nor did her school.

So, yeah, Palin does get the blame.

Verdammt, KoL! Why did you have to draw first? :p

When the parents espouse true American wholesome family values, abstinence education, when one of them aspires to lead the nation under that banner, when they discover such an issue in their own family yet show little compassion for others in the same situation, when the kids are knowingly placed in front of the media spotlight, pressured into announcing they will get married, then it does have something to do with the parents.

I don't agree. Bristol Palin has the ability to think for herself, and it is her alone that is responsible for her actions, not her mother. Sarah Palin's politics don't necessarily equate to Bristol Palin's.

I don't agree. Bristol Palin has the ability to think for herself, and it is her alone that is responsible for her actions, not her mother. Sarah Palin's politics don't necessarily equate to Bristol Palin's.

When those politics are responsible for the lack of contraceptive use, however, they are partly to blame.

Sure, it's all assumptions, my main point is that it was a stupid decision to nominate her.

Oh, I agree that Sarah Palin's nomination was a bad decision. My point is that Bristol Palin ≠ Sarah Palin.

Oh, I agree that Sarah Palin's nomination was a bad decision. My point is that Bristol Palin ≠ Sarah Palin.

Clearly. Bristol said abstinance only education doesnt really work for everyone, and they should teach contraceptive use, and if they had, she probably wouldnt be pregenant.


Shes clearly much smarter.

She did, however, name her kid "Tripp", so its obvious she does have her mom's awful taste in names.

I don't agree. Bristol Palin has the ability to think for herself, and it is her alone that is responsible for her actions, not her mother. Sarah Palin's politics don't necessarily equate to Bristol Palin's.

Okay.

Suppose you were born and raised in a family in which whatever usage of glass or transparent plastic was avoided, as well as your parents preventing you from ever learning about their existance and property.

A few months later, you are in a one-story house with some well-polished bulletproof glass covering a nearby window and a door on the other side of the room.

The house catches on fire.

You, not knowing about the glass or its properties, seeing, instead of the well-polished glass, an open space, take the quickest route off the house...

...or what you think is the quickest route. The glass hits your head and you faint, dying in the fire.

Whose fault is it?

Clearly. Bristol said abstinance only education doesnt really work for everyone, and they should teach contraceptive use, and if they had, she probably wouldnt be pregenant.


Shes clearly much smarter.

Where? Where? Where?

Where? Where? Where?

Oh, it was in an article like...a month ago. I actually posted it. The right wing idealogues were convienently absent from said thread.

Oh, it was in an article like...a month ago. I actually posted it. The right wing idealogues were convienently absent from said thread.

No way!!!

I AM SO SURPRISED!!! :eek2::eek2::eek2::eek::eek::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek:

...and not knowing about contraceptives. Which she has basically says that her parents didnt teach her about them, nor did her school (which is probably also partly because of her mom, being the Gov and all).

So, yeah, Palin does get the blame.

So, you're saying that Bristol Palin had no access to the internet? Are you saying that her boyfriend Levi Johnston had no access to the internet? Surely if Levi Johnston was so against getting his girlfriend pregnant, he would have looked up contraceptives.

You know what might have prevented it? A condom. For instance.

You know what the abstinence-only education Palin proposes eschews? Condoms. For instance.

Are people in Alaska not allowed to look up information? Is it ONLY the responsibility of the female to use contraceptives?

So, you're saying that Bristol Palin had no access to the internet? Are you saying that her boyfriend Levi Johnston had no access to the internet? Surely if Levi Johnston was so against getting his girlfriend pregnant, he would have looked up contraceptives.

The vast amount of statistics that show that learning about abstinance in school suggests its much, much more then "OMG look it up on teh interwebz".

If all it took was the internet, the teen pregnency statistics would not be as high as they are. There is a direct correlation between contraceptives being taught in schools and a reduction in teen pregnency and STDs.

But all those people must just not have a series of tubes:rolleyes:

Are people in Alaska not allowed to look up information? Is it ONLY the responsibility of the female to use contraceptives?

They are a tad nutty up there. Last I heard; it's the rape capitol of the country.....

*snip*
This analogy lends itself to the worst sex euphemism of all time:
"So Phil, how'd your date go last night?"
"'My head hit the glass,' if you know what I mean."
"Of course I don't, that metaphor seems almost intentionally opaque and confusing. What on earth are you talking about?"

Okay.

Suppose you were born and raised in a family in which whatever usage of glass or transparent plastic was avoided, as well as your parents preventing you from ever learning about their existance and property.

A few months later, you are in a one-story house with some well-polished bulletproof glass covering a nearby window and a door on the other side of the room.

The house catches on fire.

You, not knowing about the glass or its properties, seeing, instead of the well-polished glass, an open space, take the quickest route off the house...

...or what you think is the quickest route. The glass hits your head and you faint, dying in the fire.

Whose fault is it?

Mine, for not looking up information for myself on the internet or in other reference material, being stupid enough to rush headlong into the glass without investigating the opening first, and for not keeping my eyesight checked and missing the obvious reflections off the well polished glass.

So, you're saying that Bristol Palin had no access to the internet? Are you saying that her boyfriend Levi Johnston had no access to the internet? Surely if Levi Johnston was so against getting his girlfriend pregnant, he would have looked up contraceptives.

In case there are people here in the same situation as Mr. Johnston, I would like to give them helpful advice: remember to put any sort of contraceptive on your nose. It may seem counter-intuitive, but that's how they actually work. Also, women can't get pregnant on Mondays.

judging a parent by an adult kids action is rather poor form.
you can raise 1,000 kids the exact same way and they will grow up and behave in 1,000 different ways.

Ya know, I find the fact that some republicans tout the Bible as one of their mainstays, and then turn around and say that war is necessary. Guess what? ya know the whole "ten commandments" thing? the whole "thou Shalt not Kill" thing? what do you think war is, a tea party?!
Abstinence only education is for parents that want to shelter and blind their kids, not educate. it is for their own peace of mind, because if their kids don't have sex, they can't get pregnant, and then they have nothing to worry about.

I do agree that Bristol is a smart girl, but if she actually was educated, she probably would have not gotten pregnant. wheather it was Gov. Palins fault or the school boards fault, it still happened.

The vast amount of statistics that show that learning about abstinance in school suggests its much, much more then "OMG look it up on teh interwebz".

If all it took was the internet, the teen pregnency statistics would not be as high as they are. There is a direct correlation between contraceptives being taught in schools and a reduction in teen pregnency and STDs.

But all those people must just not have a series of tubes:rolleyes:

So, there's no chance whatsoever of finding out this information on the internet? Not by accident, or design? There's no chance that kids may talk to their friends (who may have been taught about contraceptives by their parents), other adults, etc and learn about contraceptives that way?

Hypocrisy is the wrong word (someone not doing what you presumably want them to do isn't it), but the whole thing is strange and sad at any rate.

So, there's no chance whatsoever of finding out this information on the internet? Not by accident, or design? There's no chance that kids may talk to their friends (who may have been taught about contraceptives by their parents), other adults, etc and learn about contraceptives that way?

That chance appears to be virtually nonexistance. Unless you want to deny all the statistical correlation.

Besides, its possible she didnt even know about condems.

Besides, its possible she didnt even know about condems.

In all likelihood, her information was worse than that. According to this report (http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20041201102153-50247.pdf), American abstinence-only curricula commonly teach that condoms are useless in preventing pregnancy and/or STIs.

White people. *shakes head*
Green people. *congos*

That chance appears to be virtually nonexistance. Unless you want to deny all the statistical correlation.

Besides, its possible she didnt even know about condems.

What statistical correlation? You keep mentioning it, but haven't posted a link to back up your position. Also, why are you taking the position that contraceptives were ONLY her responsibility? Surely with her boyfriend's attitude towards a pregnancy, he would have known how to prevent it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bristol_palin

Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up.

Sorry I thought this was her daughter doing this not Sarah.

What statistical correlation? You keep mentioning it, but haven't posted a link to back up your position. Also, why are you taking the position that contraceptives were ONLY her responsibility? Surely with her boyfriend's attitude towards a pregnancy, he would have known how to prevent it.

Stop defending her. There's no question she raised a lout of a daughter who "hooked up" with a lout of a boy.

Stop defending her. There's no question she raised a lout of a daughter who "hooked up" with a lout of a boy.

I don't like Sarah Palin. But regardless of that, I don't see how Sarah Palin can be held responsible for actions her adult daughter takes. That includes Bristol getting pregnant, getting engaged, and/or breaking up with her fiance.

In all likelihood, her information was worse than that. According to this report (http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20041201102153-50247.pdf), American abstinence-only curricula commonly teach that condoms are useless in preventing pregnancy and/or STIs.

Somebody silence these idiots before they do more damage!

Sorry to break up your Liberal circlejerk and all that, but :

1) Why do you insist on using stupid nicknames for the opposition's politicians?
2) Where on earth is the hypocrisy in this - this isn't really to do with Sarah Palin as such, so why judge her on the actions of her now-adult daughter?

Sorry to break up your Liberal circlejerk and all that, but :

1) Why do you insist on using stupid nicknames for the opposition's politicians?
2) Where on earth is the hypocrisy in this - this isn't really to do with Sarah Palin as such, so why judge her on the actions of her now-adult daughter?

1- Because they tended to tarnish our side with something way worse than nicknames.

2- Okay, so, if I change the title to "Palin proven wrong, her education plans and abstinence-only fantasies make her daughter a single mother", will you admit that that's pretty much what happened?

Sorry to break up your Liberal circlejerk and all that, but :

1) Why do you insist on using stupid nicknames for the opposition's politicians?
2) Where on earth is the hypocrisy in this - this isn't really to do with Sarah Palin as such, so why judge her on the actions of her now-adult daughter?

1- Because it makes them feel good.

2- Because it makes them feel good and gives people another excuse to feel smug and arrogant over something trivial that we need to draw a low bow to make ourselves feel good instead of focusing on better stories in which to argue against their political opponents.

1- Because they tended to tarnish our side with something way worse than nicknames.

So it was alright for them to do it?

2- Okay, so, if I change the title to "Palin proven wrong, her education plans and abstinence-only fantasies make her daughter a single mother", will you admit that that's pretty much what happened?

No, because one example doesn't debunk a theory. Especially when we don't know all the factors that influenced Bristol.

So it was alright for them to do it?



No, because one example doesn't debunk a theory. Especially when we don't know all the factors that influenced Bristol.

1- Reaction tends to be all right.

2- And all the others?

1- Reaction tends to be all right.

2- And all the others?

Good so we won't hear any more complannts about what they did.

All the others what?

1- Because they tended to tarnish our side with something way worse than nicknames.
Je m'en fous. Be better than your political enemies or we get stuck in this rut forever.
2- Okay, so, if I change the title to "Palin proven wrong, her education plans and abstinence-only fantasies make her daughter a single mother", will you admit that that's pretty much what happened?
Absolutely. I'd still contend that it's a pretty trivial affair, mind.

Good so we won't hear any more complannts about what they did.

All the others what?

All the other examples...

They are a tad nutty up there. Last I heard; it's the rape capitol of the country.....

Not every place here is the Bush. By that I mean the back country not W. Most places don't have internet readily available. Most of our "towns" lack running water. So without parents or school teaching about the use of condoms we have pregnancy. That being said Wasilla isn't the middle of nowhere, it is right next to Anchorage are largest city.

All the other examples...

Of single teenage mothers who had an abstinence only sex education at high school? Because I can take you to a town I lived in for quite a few years and show you all the single teenage mothers who had a comprehensive sex education at high school.

Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up.

Reality 1
Ultraconservative wankings 0

Wonderful.

Eh my morality is kicking in. It's nice to see the bimbo's policies blown to shit, but I do feel bad for her daughter.

The poor girl was thrown into the spotlight all because her mother was picked for VP. Not only is she in the media spotlight; she has a ton of pressure raising this kid right with an idiot grandmother (Sarah Palin) around that's most likely forcing her views on the way to raise the child. Plus she's only 18. And it was an unwanted pregnancy.

I really feel bad for her...

Plus she's only 18. And it was an unwanted pregnancy.
Worked out alright for my mum.

Worked out alright for my mum.

Yeah, but it couldn't have been easy.

Yeah, but it couldn't have been easy.
S'true.

S'true.

I mean think about it. This girl is still basically a kid, with a kid, with a mother like that. You know Sarah is constantly pushing her ideals on Bristol. I know I wouldn't want to be in that position.

Just have to express my condolences and all that. Now I'm gonna get me some sleep.

I mean think about it. This girl is still basically a kid, with a kid, with a mother like that. You know Sarah is constantly pushing her ideals on Bristol. I know I wouldn't want to be in that position.

Just have to express my condolences and all that. Now I'm gonna get me some sleep.

At least the family has money to look after the child, more then can be said for other children.

At least the family has money to look after the child, more then can be said for other children.

That's just the point! The Palin family has the means to support an unwanted teen pregnancy. So, they're welcome to believe all the abstinence only, family values horseshit they preach, and even model their lives after it. But most people are not as fortunate as the Palin family. Most people cannot afford to support an unwanted teen pregnancy. Yet, Sarah Palin would like nothing better than to force her own particular brand of morality onto everyone else in the entire country, completely ignoring the reality that not everyone is in such a lucky place to be able to worry about morality.

It was easy for Bristol to make the difficult decision to keep her baby because it wasn't a difficult decision. She's rich. She's not going to have to actually worry about raising a baby while working a minimum wage job cause she had to drop out of high school. And for Sarah Palin to parade her daughter around like a walking campaign slogan, saying, "Look, my family is going through the same troubles as you! I'm just like you! I know firsthand how hard it is, but we're doing it anyway because it's the "right" thing to do!" ignores the simple reality that Bristol Palin is NOT like most teenage mothers, and she does NOT have to go through the same troubles most teenage mothers go through.

The simple point is that Sarah Palin made her and her family's morality and "family values" a central tenet of her campaign. She is the one who put her daughter in the limelight; she is the one who championed her family values. When she used her family for political gain, she opened up her family to political criticism when they deviated from the "family values" that Palin blathered on and on about. Any criticism that Bristol Palin suffers is the sole fault of her mother.

Sorry to break up your Liberal circlejerk and all that, but :

1) Why do you insist on using stupid nicknames for the opposition's politicians?
These are based in misogyny.
2) Where on earth is the hypocrisy in this - this isn't really to do with Sarah Palin as such, so why judge her on the actions of her now-adult daughter?
Because they are bitter and it's the only way they know to lash out. (bitter about what.....we don't know.)

Green people. *congos*

:D

Sorry to break up your Liberal circlejerk and all that, but :

Wait. Are we talking British Liberals or American? ;)

1) Why do you insist on using stupid nicknames for the opposition's politicians?

Part of the American tradition actually. If you feel bored, take a scan of political cartoons through the years.

2) Where on earth is the hypocrisy in this - this isn't really to do with Sarah Palin as such, so why judge her on the actions of her now-adult daughter?

Well when you and your party yabber on about morality and family values; it kind of suggests you have your household in order and taught your children family values and morality.

When kids like Bristol screw up; well people smile at the hypocrisy.

Poor Sarah. Now how will she use her daughter as an example of how a Good Christian Family deals with teenage pregnancy?

Poor Sarah. Now how will she use her daughter as an example of how a Good Christian Family deals with teenage pregnancy?
a good christian girl gets married before its obvious she is knocked up.

Hey I'm single too! Her mom's hot, shes not bad herself, nd at least I know she puts out! :D

These are based in misogyny.

Both "Bible Spice" and "Caribou Barbie" are nicknames I learned from Muravyets.

A woman.

a good christian girl gets married before its obvious she is knocked up.

A good christian girl kicks the pope in the balls until he improves christianity by amending the bible :p

So because her running mate (not even Palin herself) said nasty things about the Clintons, attacking Palin's daughter is okay?
How about, because Sarah Palin actively asserts that her values should be imposed on EVERYBODY'S children, it's totally fair for us to look at how HER children turned out.

Bristol Palin appears to have managed to become a relatively sane and reasonable kid despite the spectacular failures of her parents; she's anti-abstinence-only, she is declining to marry the guy who got her pregnant because she sees it's not good for HER, and she's very slowly starting to express mature opinions that go well beyond the childish philosophy her mother pushes.

I don't think Bristol Palin should be attacked at all. All she did was have sex and get pregnant, and that's something pretty normal for humans. But SARAH Palin should be attacked every time she opens her mouth, because her own family is proof positive that she should never, ever, presume to tell anybody else how to raise their kids.

Both "Bible Spice" and "Caribou Barbie" are nicknames I learned from Muravyets.

A woman.

Muravyets is a misogynist? :eek2:

In all seriousness, I have met female misogynists. A couple of them, in fact.

It seems like you were trying to be sarcastic, OP,* but honestly I think this is evidence that Bristol is a smart kid with a backbone. What the hell did she do wrong? She had the audacity to have sex, and the bad luck to get pregnant, both of which are not unusual for teens in her country. But because she has a fuckwit for a mother, and because our country is full of similar fuckwits, she's had everybody from her mother to the national goddam media trying to presure her into marrying the dude who got her knocked up no matter what she might have wanted.

Good for her for breaking it off with the guy. The biodad can be an involved, responsible parent no matter what, and if Bristol doesn't want to be married to him then she's doing the right thing.



*MODEDIT: Reference to OP of second thread, which was deleted after thread-merge.

Muravyets is a misogynist? :eek2:

In all seriousness, I have met female misogynists. A couple of them, in fact.

Feel free to argue that Mur is one, but I don't believe it and I don't think she'll like it. :p

Both "Bible Spice" and "Caribou Barbie" are nicknames I learned from Muravyets.

A woman.

The fact that a woman says it doesn't magically mean it can't be sexist.

However.

In this case, Sarah Palin CHOSE to market herself specifically in that manner. She signed on to be a figurehead, she chose to be on the ticket as Teh Hawt Gurl Zomg, and frankly I don't think she's got any leg to stand on if she now wants to turn around and cry sexism. She ran on a platform of sexism. Her entire presence as a conservative candidate is based on sexism. She supports laws that codify sexism across the country.

Nobody forced her to be a sexist fembot. You're damn right I'll make fun of her for choosing to be one. :D

Feel free to argue that Mur is one, but I don't believe it and I don't think she'll like it. :p

That's why the shocked smilie my dear Watson.

It seems like you were trying to be sarcastic, OP, but honestly I think this is evidence that Bristol is a smart kid with a backbone. What the hell did she do wrong? She had the audacity to have sex, and the bad luck to get pregnant, both of which are not unusual for teens in her country. But because she has a fuckwit for a mother, and because our country is full of similar fuckwits, she's had everybody from her mother to the national goddam media trying to presure her into marrying the dude who got her knocked up no matter what she might have wanted.

You're absolutely right. I'd do her.

You're absolutely right. I'd do her.

"I, Galloism, do you with all my heart."

(Lifted from Beavis and Butthead)

Good for her for breaking it off with the guy. The biodad can be an involved, responsible parent no matter what, and if Bristol doesn't want to be married to him then she's doing the right thing.

Awesome. I will steal this word and claim it as one of my own.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bristol_palin

Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up.

her fiance looks like a twat

These are based in misogyny.

Oh ffs:rolleyes:
Of single teenage mothers who had an abstinence only sex education at high school? Because I can take you to a town I lived in for quite a few years and show you all the single teenage mothers who had a comprehensive sex education at high school.
Good for you. But guess what? Even if I believed you (which I dont), it wouldnt matter, because there is piles and piles of statistical evidence that shows that if you have an abstinance only education, you are much more likely to get preggers. Now, those on the right, the catholics, the prudes, etc can say "ZOMGZ I NOZ PEOPLE WHO WERE TAUGH BOUT CONDOMS AND GOT PREGGERZ!" but guess what? No one fucking cares, because piles and piles of statistical, emperical evidence > youre little anicdotes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bristol_palin

Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up.

Meh. Although I think Bristol Palin's misfortunes demonstrate some of the fallacies in Bible Spice's thinking, I also think it is wrong to revel in them.

Also, I don't think they actually demonstrate hypocrisy, just failed ideology.

Och, can't we give the poor girl some peace?

Her life's been ruined enough all ready by her mother and the US media/political establishment using her as a political football.

It's an ugly state of affairs.

What Sarah Palin's daughter does is a reflection on Sarah Palin how?

What Sarah Palin's daughter does is a reflection on Sarah Palin how?

Sara Palin raised her daughter to be a moron that doesn't know the first thing about contraception.

The results are there, Bristol Palin is a single teenage mother of an accident named Tripp.

Asked and answered.

Not really. McCain made ugly jokes about the Clinton's daughter. Kind of begs the question of the character of the man.

It was beyond tasteless.

or what about the shrub and all his family values BS and then you look at his daughters antics.....

^ This.

Sara Palin raised her daughter to be a moron that doesn't know the first thing about contraception.

The results are there, Bristol Palin is a single teenage mother of an accident named Tripp.

Asked and answered.

I do not agree with Bristol's conduct but I do not think that her behavior followed any sort of a script given to her by her mom.

I do not agree with Bristol's conduct but I do not think that her behavior followed any sort of a script given to her by her mom.

Part of the script - "Not using birth control methods" - WAS given to her by her bimbo of a mother.

Part of the script - "Not using birth control methods" - WAS given to her by her bimbo of a mother.

I like birth control and think it is a great idea. Bristol might object to it. Sarah Palin might object to it. Typically those who object to it do so for religious reasons. Maybe the two women merely have the same religious views? Nothing hypocritical there.

Yeah, that wedding wasnt being forced at all.

To be fair, as plausible as it may seem, I have yet to see real evidence that the wedding was being forced. Maybe they thought at first that they should get married, but then it didn't work out. Such things happen, without the need for coercion.

To be fair, as plausible as it may seem, I have yet to see real evidence that the wedding was being forced. Maybe they thought at first that they should get married, but then it didn't work out. Such things happen, without the need for coercion.

Engagements fail all the time. That is why you need to make your engagement as short as possible to plan a wedding. Mine was only 5 or 6 weeks.

To be fair, as plausible as it may seem, I have yet to see real evidence that the wedding was being forced. Maybe they thought at first that they should get married, but then it didn't work out. Such things happen, without the need for coercion.

Maybe you should move to Alaska. The kid was screwed from the get go. Heck Palin fired the states top cop because he wouldn't sack her ex-brother in law. So she doesn't have a problem exercising influence against others. The only reason she probably let the kid walk was because his mother got busted for oxycontin. Drug dealers don't look good for elections.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bristol_palin

Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up.

Really, only one thing to be said:
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii155/macabreVjoyride/caturday/oh-the-ironing.jpg

I don't think Bristol Palin should be attacked at all. All she did was have sex and get pregnant, and that's something pretty normal for humans. But SARAH Palin should be attacked every time she opens her mouth, because her own family is proof positive that she should never, ever, presume to tell anybody else how to raise their kids.
Isn't that kind of contradictory? There's nothing wrong with getting pregnant out of marriage, but Bristol Palin getting pregnant out of marriage is proof Sarah Palin is a bad mother?
Anyway, I agree that Bristol Palin shouldn't be attacked, and so far none of the news stories I have seen have done that. But continually putting her in the public spotlight, while not attacking, is humiliating, and I don't see any benefit it brings to the nation (...I say after talking about Bristol Palin getting pregnant in about forty posts).

But continually putting her in the public spotlight, while not attacking, is humiliating, and I don't see any benefit it brings to the nation (...I say after talking about Bristol Palin getting pregnant in about forty posts).

This is only funny if you know Welsh.

It seems like you were trying to be sarcastic, OP,* but honestly I think this is evidence that Bristol is a smart kid with a backbone. What the hell did she do wrong? She had the audacity to have sex, and the bad luck to get pregnant, both of which are not unusual for teens in her country. But because she has a fuckwit for a mother, and because our country is full of similar fuckwits, she's had everybody from her mother to the national goddam media trying to presure her into marrying the dude who got her knocked up no matter what she might have wanted.

Good for her for breaking it off with the guy. The biodad can be an involved, responsible parent no matter what, and if Bristol doesn't want to be married to him then she's doing the right thing.

This, pretty much, with the addendum that people mocking and insulting Bristol and her ex are frankly making me ashamed to be on the same side of the political spectrum with them. Go after Sarah Palin, by all means - she's a public figure and she's brought every ounce of mockery on herself - but Bristol Palin is just a teenager who has nothing to do with you, and going after her for doing fairly typical teenage things like having sex with her boyfriend and breaking up with said boyfriend puts you on par with the folks who thought "hur hur, Chelsea Clinton is an ugly 13-year-old" was clever political commentary 15 years ago. And for heaven's sake, don't argue "Well, if Sarah Palin didn't want her daughter to get chased around by reporters and insulted by pundits, she shouldn't have used her as a political tool," because while that is a perfectly fair criticism of Sarah, it's still not Bristol's fault. It's like saying "Well, it's okay for me to punch children in the face if their parents don't stop me!" Not stopping people from punching your kids in the face is shitty parenting, but the people doing the punching are still the sort of assholes who punch kids in the face.

*MODEDIT: Reference to OP of second thread, which was deleted after thread-merge.

Just to point that out so people don't say Bottle was answering me - the title of this thread is about Sarah's shitty parenting and the results - her daughter getting pregnant with a kid her family, given the grandmother's... unusual... naming style, might as well name "Backseat" or "Accident". Bristol, aside from being a municipality in England, is but a victim, as is little Ishouldaboughtacondom Palin.

Good for you. But guess what? Even if I believed you (which I dont), it wouldnt matter, because there is piles and piles of statistical evidence that shows that if you have an abstinance only education, you are much more likely to get preggers. Now, those on the right, the catholics, the prudes, etc can say "ZOMGZ I NOZ PEOPLE WHO WERE TAUGH BOUT CONDOMS AND GOT PREGGERZ!" but guess what? No one fucking cares, because piles and piles of statistical, emperical evidence > youre little anicdotes.

Hey guess what KOL I don't really care about the stats and you know why? Because H2 was using anecdotal evidence himself so I decided to use some back to show that saying Bristol got pregnant means that it doesn't work.

Now you can say all the crap about the right, the catholics (which by the way at my catholic school we were taught about it), the prudes and all other crap, but this was showing that pointing one girl is not enough because if he wants to go down that path I will too.

fyi I don't really care if they are taught about contraceptives or not but do you have this statistical evidence I can see?

EDIT: As for not believing me well here we go :http://www.whyalla.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/Whyalla_Social_Profile_2006.pdf If you want to read how high the rate of teenage pregnancies is in this town you can. You will find it starting on page 179 of the document or page 188 of the pdf file.

the highest confinement rate per 1,000 births for young women aged 15 to 19 years. A confinement rate of 46.1 per 1,000 among this age group in the Northern region (which is primarily Whyalla) considerably higher than the State rate (18.6), and also higher than the rate among all country areas(30.8).

So before you state I am making shit up make sure you know that I am.

Yes I know it is anecdotal evidence. Yes I know (or at least being told plenty of times) that there is empirical evidence of abstinence-only problems but as I am saying H2 was saying that Bristol is proof that it doesn't work, therefore, I was using the same road to show that saying Bristol got pregnant means it doesn't work.

*snip rant*

Are you addressing this to me or are you just using my "at least the kid will have a good chance of getting decent things in life so I won't feel sorry for him like I do with other kids to teenage mothers" comment, or are you addressing the entire NSG community? I hope it is the latter.

When kids like Bristol screw up; well people smile at the hypocrisy.

Except it wasn't Bristol talking about it, it was her mother.

It was just a brilliant decision by John McCain, utterly brilliant, the more I reflect on it the more I just think it was an amazing choice.

She wasn't a junior Senator from Illinois and resident of Chicago, a city mostly known for serious corruption but then that just underlines the utterly stupid decision 52% of voters in November made.

Fixed.

Fifty-two days in and it's becoming more and more clear what an inexperienced, overeducated, incompetent clown it is who made it into the White House. Sarah Palin was, and remains, more qualified to be President than that shit-shoveling socialist. Hell, TRIG Palin would have been a better choice.

BTW: those who take cheap shots at Bristol are pond scum. They aren't worthy to change her baby's diapers, and their opinions don't rise to the level of the contents of said garments.

overeducated

BTW: those who take cheap shots at Bristol are pond scum. They aren't worthy to change her baby's diapers, and their opinions don't rise to the level of the contents of said garments.

So, Leeroy finally admits that, for him, education is a BAD thing.

BTW: I don't really care if you think I'm worth more or less than excrements of little Toomuchbooze Palin.

Fixed.

Fifty-two days in and it's becoming more and more clear what an inexperienced, overeducated, incompetent clown it is who made it into the White House.

When did the repubs take the stance that education is a bad thing?

Are we the only country on the planet that holds this view?

Overall; I am not pissed at Sarah Palin. I am pissed at the American public for their standards being so low that people like Palin and the shrub get into higher office.

When did the repubs take the stance that education is a bad thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

Fixed.

Fifty-two days in and it's becoming more and more clear what an inexperienced, overeducated, incompetent clown it is who made it into the White House. Sarah Palin was, and remains, more qualified to be President than that shit-shoveling socialist. Hell, TRIG Palin would have been a better choice.

BTW: those who take cheap shots at Bristol are pond scum. They aren't worthy to change her baby's diapers, and their opinions don't rise to the level of the contents of said garments.

As if my opinion is in anyway swayed by the way you express yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

Thanks. I just noticed it more these days.

It's funny for all their talk about China, the USSR, and Iran; they held similar viewpoints. :)

Fifty-two days in and it's becoming more and more clear what an inexperienced, overeducated, incompetent clown it is who made it into the White House. Sarah Palin was, and remains, more qualified to be President than that shit-shoveling socialist. Hell, TRIG Palin would have been a better choice.

IIRC one of the reason's why Palin was a better choice than Obama is because she has had more experience as the head of the executive of a government. Well while that may still be true Obama has now had more experience than Palin as President of the United States.

Would this be a bad time to point out that Sarah Palin said she approves teaching about contraception (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/06/nation/na-sexed6)? This raises the likelihood that Bristol Palin knew about contraception, no?

Would this be a bad time to point out that Sarah Palin said she approves teaching about contraception (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/06/nation/na-sexed6)? This raises the likelihood that Bristol Palin knew about contraception, no?

Quiet, you'll wreck the fun.

Fixed.

Fifty-two days in and it's becoming more and more clear what an inexperienced, overeducated, incompetent clown it is who made it into the White House. Sarah Palin was, and remains, more qualified to be President than that shit-shoveling socialist. Hell, TRIG Palin would have been a better choice.

BTW: those who take cheap shots at Bristol are pond scum. They aren't worthy to change her baby's diapers, and their opinions don't rise to the level of the contents of said garments.
how funny it is, NM - the master of abuse against Obama whining that people shouldn't hurl insults.
eye-ron-knee.

y'know what's really insightful (or should that be inciteful?) with NM's signature: "I will give your president the same respect you gave mine"?

It's that it speaks volumes about his level of maturity.
We know this, because we remember history. GWB did recieve a lot of support when he first became president. Sure, there was a lot of anger over the Florida debacle, but that calmed down and generally people gave him a chance. He was sitting in the mid-50's for support for most of the time leading up to 9/11. 50-60% support is very respectable, and it means more people supported him than voted for him.
Then, of course, after 9/11 support for GWB shot up to unpresented heights, even into the low 90's - something unheard of. 9 in 10 Americans supported GWB at one point.
The American public, as a whole, gave him a huge amount of respect. They expected great things from him, as their leader, in a time of dire crisis, and they trusted him to deliver.
And he failed them.
Failed, lied to, and betrayed, them. And in so doing, and quite rightly, lost all that respect and trust.
He had their respect and he blew it.

But this is totally lost on NM. He conveniently 'forgets' (or, in his hateful delusion blanks it out as it's cognitive dissonance) that the reason GWB had no respect by the end of his tenure as president was due to GWB himself.

The American public gave GWB a chance - something NM won't do for Obama. Which does nothing more than show up NM's petty, miserable, hateful, little soul.
I feel sorry for him. I can't imagine how terrible it must be to be that full of hatred and anger. It must be so....impotent.

I feel sorry for him. I can't imagine how terrible it must be to be that full of hatred and anger. It must be so....impotent.

Your source of sorrow, my source of enjoyment. :D

Your source of sorrow, my source of enjoyment. :D
Yes, there is that as well.
But it goes without saying, so I didn't see the need to mention it.

Isn't that kind of contradictory? There's nothing wrong with getting pregnant out of marriage, but Bristol Palin getting pregnant out of marriage is proof Sarah Palin is a bad mother?

No, it's proof that Sarah Palin's claims are crap. She claims to know how kids should be brought up, and her own offspring are proof that she's either incompetent or lying or both.

This, pretty much, with the addendum that people mocking and insulting Bristol and her ex are frankly making me ashamed to be on the same side of the political spectrum with them. Go after Sarah Palin, by all means - she's a public figure and she's brought every ounce of mockery on herself - but Bristol Palin is just a teenager who has nothing to do with you, and going after her for doing fairly typical teenage things like having sex with her boyfriend and breaking up with said boyfriend puts you on par with the folks who thought "hur hur, Chelsea Clinton is an ugly 13-year-old" was clever political commentary 15 years ago.
Exactly.

Sarah Palin made HER OWN mothering skills a national fucking issue. She deserves ever inch of mockery and ridicule that can be heaped on her, because her ideas about parenting are stupid ideas that have been failing for centuries and she's a bad person for buying into them in the first place. But her kids didn't ask to be born to stupid parents.

Would this be a bad time to point out that Sarah Palin said she approves teaching about contraception (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/06/nation/na-sexed6)? This raises the likelihood that Bristol Palin knew about contraception, no?
I'd be willing to bet my life savings (all $42 of it) that Bristol definitely knew about contraception. She was an American kid with access to television, after all.

I'd be willing to wager the same that her parents actively and consistently gave her the message that only sluts use birth control, that carrying a condom means you're PLANNING to be a slut, and that the only real way to be "safe" is to not do it until you've got that nice diamond ring.

I'd be willing to wager the same that her parents actively and consistently gave her the message that only sluts use birth control, that carrying a condom means you're PLANNING to be a slut, and that the only real way to be "safe" is to not do it until you've got that nice diamond ring.

Ah, Bottle. If I see Mur as this forum's Chun Li, I surely see you as its Mai Shiranui. :D

You're good, girl! ;)

Would this be a bad time to point out that Sarah Palin said she approves teaching about contraception (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/06/nation/na-sexed6)? This raises the likelihood that Bristol Palin knew about contraception, no?

Hmmm a campaign claim taken as gospel? Hardly.

I would look at her budgets for sex education and if she gave any orders about what should be taught.

Would this be a bad time to point out that Sarah Palin said she approves teaching about contraception (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/06/nation/na-sexed6)? This raises the likelihood that Bristol Palin knew about contraception, no?

Um. I don't know if you are doing so deliberately, but you are mistating the record.

1. The LA Times article (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/06/nation/na-sexed6) you cite says:

(1) "Palin's running mate, John McCain, and the GOP platform say children should be taught that abstinence until marriage is the only safe way to avoid pregnancy and disease."

AND (2) "Palin's position is less clear."

This is far from persuasive evidence that Bible Spice does not support abstinence-only sex education and/or does support teaching kids about contraception. If Palin truly supported comprehensive sex education and/or contraception she had many oppotunities to make this clear during the 2008 campaign. She declined to do so.

2. In contrast, Palin's written position when she ran for Alaska's governorship was pretty damn clear:

Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

A: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.
link (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Families_+_Children.htm)

3. Palin is sometimes referred to as "pro-life and pro-contraception" based, in large part, on her strong identification with Feminists for Life. But (1) Feminists for Life is not "pro-contraception" as they say so themselves (http://www.feministsforlife.org/FAQ/index.htm#contraception) and (2) they are actually pretty hostile to contraception (http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/8/31/134127/530).

When did the repubs take the stance that education is a bad thing?

Are we the only country on the planet that holds this view?

Overall; I am not pissed at Sarah Palin. I am pissed at the American public for their standards being so low that people like Palin and the shrub get into higher office.

The problem is not necessarily with higher education. The problem is that most institutions of higher education have more professors that are liberals than conservatives and a whole bunch of politically correct (i.e. liberal) policies that make us want to barf.

The problem is not necessarily with higher education. The problem is that most institutions of higher education have more professors that are liberals than conservatives and a whole bunch of politically correct (i.e. liberal) policies that make us want to barf.

You see, most academia is liberal BECAUSE it's educated.

You see, most academia is liberal BECAUSE it's educated.

No. The liberals did not want to fight in Vietnam so they dodged the draft by pursuing higher education. These people became professors and are now department heads and deans.

No. The liberals did not want to fight in Vietnam so they dodged the draft by pursuing higher education. These people became professors and are now department heads and deans.

So, you crossed the line between a post that's merely wrong and an outright lie now. I see.

So, you crossed the line between a post that's merely wrong and an outright lie now. I see.

The first time you called me a liar I got really pissed off. Now I just do not care anymore.

No. The liberals did not want to fight in Vietnam so they dodged the draft by pursuing higher education. These people became professors and are now department heads and deans.

You mean like that pinko hippie Dick Cheney?

The problem is not necessarily with higher education. The problem is that most institutions of higher education have more professors that are liberals than conservatives and a whole bunch of politically correct (i.e. liberal) policies that make us want to barf.
Good. So don't go any more.

Seriously, I'm 100% behind this. Conservatives should never, ever obtain higher education. Boycott universities. Please.

Good. So don't go any more.

Seriously, I'm 100% behind this. Conservatives should never, ever obtain higher education. Boycott universities. Please.

o_O?

What do we gain, Bottle?

o_O?

What do we gain, Bottle?

The important thing is what we lose. Conservatives, from our universities :tongue:

The important thing is what we lose. Conservatives, from our universities :tongue:

Mmm. Point...

Good. So don't go any more.

Seriously, I'm 100% behind this. Conservatives should never, ever obtain higher education. Boycott universities. Please.

So much for diversity then. So much for debates.

So much for diversity then. So much for debates.

You were the one who said you didn't want to go.

So much for diversity then. So much for debates.

Dont whine about how conservatives should not go to uni and then when we say, "Fine, we dont care" go "Waaaaaaaah".

We're not going to beg you to come.


Besides, the whole "Libruhl college professor" bit is a myth. A big one.

*snip pointless idealogue trolling*
BTW: those who take cheap shots at Bristol are pond scum. They aren't worthy to change her baby's diapers, and their opinions don't rise to the level of the contents of said garments.

I wonder if you feel the same way about your GOP cohorts who talked shit about Chelsea Clinton.

Quick Frodo, throw the one ring in!

You were the one who said you didn't want to go.

No, I claimed that the only problem with being educated is that you have to sit through a bunch of lefty garbage where your views are mocked by just about everyone from the administration on down.

No, I claimed that the only problem with being educated is that you have to sit through a bunch of lefty garbage where your views are mocked by just about everyone from the administration on down.

The only problem is that this doesnt happen. You are either listening to stories from liars, lying yourself, or trolling.

Dont whine about how conservatives should not go to uni and then when we say, "Fine, we dont care" go "Waaaaaaaah".

We're not going to beg you to come.


Besides, the whole "Libruhl college professor" bit is a myth. A big one.

No it is not a myth. When I was a political science student we were always looking at demographic statistics and there was a corrollation between education levels and liberalism. I am pretty sure that there was also one between having a career as a prof and being a liberal too.

My hypothesis is that the liberal draft evaders skipped out on Vietnam by enrolling in higher education and this explains why we have a lot of liberal profs. My premise here is that liberals sought to avoid fighting in Vietnam more than conservatives at the time.

PS. I once was modded for saying that it would have been nice to serve in a cold war battle like Vietnam or Korea because of the opportunity to kill commies. I am not in any way threatening anyone who happens to be a commie by this post. I have to be careful whenever I talk about Vietnam and commies.

No it is not a myth.

Yes, it is.

When I was a political science student we were always looking at demographic statistics and there was a corrollation between education levels and liberalism. I am pretty sure that there was also one between having a career as a prof and being a liberal too.

That might be because as you get educated, it becomes harder to believe conservative ideaology.

By the way, the amount of liberals and conservatives who are educated is roughly equal.

My hypothesis is that the liberal draft evaders skipped out on Vietnam by enrolling in higher education and this explains why we have a lot of liberal profs. My premise here is that liberals sought to avoid fighting in Vietnam more than conservatives at the time.

And your hypothesis is made of fail.

PS. I once was modded for saying that it would have been nice to serve in a cold war battle like Vietnam or Korea because of the opportunity to kill commies. I am not in any way threatening anyone who happens to be a commie by this post. I have to be careful whenever I talk about Vietnam and commies.

And you rightly were modded. Thats called flamebaiting. Or trolling.

No, I claimed that the only problem with being educated is that you have to sit through a bunch of lefty garbage where your views are mocked by just about everyone from the administration on down.
You are actively mocked by university staff?

Moreover, though many departments are certainly not staffed with hardline authoritarians, I've found that the 'average' political views change depending on which bit of the university staff you're talking about, and which institution you're talking about; the politics in the École normale supérieure will be different to that of Oxford uni.

University administration here in the UK is certainly not staffed by lefty hippies, and I'd imagine similar in the US. Those in the humanities tend to be more libertarian than the sciences, but this isn't a set in stone rule.

The above are all phenomenological truisms.

The only problem is that this doesnt happen. You are either listening to stories from liars, lying yourself, or trolling.

Ok KoL, prove your wild assertions! Deny that universities have affirmative action policies or that students have been kicked out of university for making statements that were not deemed to be politically correct.

University administration here in the UK is certainly not staffed by lefty hippies, and I'd imagine similar in the US. Those in the humanities tend to be more libertarian than the sciences, but this isn't a set in stone rule.


I have not had a single liberal college professor in the political science department. They all tend to be cynical anarch-libertarians.

Ok KoL, prove your wild assertions! Deny that universities have affirmative action policies
Why? They do. That doesnt mean theyre "libruhl".
or that students have been kicked out of university for making statements that were not deemed to be politically correct.
Cant prove a negative. How about you prove that they have been. And that it happens with regularity. Once again, showing one or two cases is not proof that it happens all the time.

EDIT: Oh, and for the record, because I have a feeling you'll confuse the two, outright racism, homophobia, prejudice, etc is more then just being "politically incorrect". Showing me an article about a few rednecks getting kicked out of uni for hanging up a noose and claiming its "proof" will just cause me to laugh at and mock you.

I have not had a single liberal college professor in the political science department. They all tend to be cynical anarch-libertarians.
I was under the impression that GF was using the term 'liberal' to refer to anyone left-of-centre.

My politics department varied. I've been taught by an anarchist, someone on the centre-left, a right-wing libertarian, and my IR class was basically an apologist lesson for US foreign policy post-1950.

I'd say this: I haven't come across too many social conservatives who teach in university, even in something like the Divinity department. Though I'm sure they exist.

Um. I don't know if you are doing so deliberately, but you are mistating the record.

1. The LA Times article (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/06/nation/na-sexed6) you cite says:

[INDENT](1) "Palin's running mate, John McCain, and the GOP platform say children should be taught that abstinence until marriage is the only safe way to avoid pregnancy and disease."
All that said was the Palin's position isn't clear and that the party made a factual call. Abstinence is obviously the only safe way to avoid pregnancy and disease. If you have sex, even using protection, you are by nature taking a risk.

Now, there is nothing wrong with having sex before marriage and indeed it's natural, but there is nothing wrong with teaching that abstinence is the only 100% safe way, and then go along to teach about the use of safe sex.

On another note, I love how a thread about how Obama adopting the exact same Iraq-war strategy as Bush is trolled with sarcastic "where's the change" comments and largely ignored, why the scum of NSG dines like bottom feeders on bullshit such as Palin's daughter.

Doesn't say much of you guys . . . (in general not YOU in particular)

I'd say this: I haven't come across too many social conservatives who teach in university, even in something like the Divinity department. Though I'm sure they exist.

The closest IVe had was a crazy natural rights Calvinist who taught a political theory class I took (on John Locke. Go figure).


And even he was quasi-sane.

You are actively mocked by university staff?

I had several professors who marked up papers that I wrote. The profs indicated that my speech was not PC. I met with them privately and explained to them that they do not need to mark up my papers so because I am not PC and do not wish to be PC and that PC stuff offends me deeply. Fortunately, they did not push the issue.

I also was placed on disciplinary probation for helping a friend have a stripper come to his dormroom. There was no rule against it. I was told that it was against the school's never defined values and that it was offensive to women (ie a bunch of feminazi nonsense). A bunch of liberal fascists!

On another note, I love how a thread about how Obama adopting the exact same Iraq-war strategy as Bush is trolled with sarcastic "where's the change" comments and largely ignored, why the scum of NSG dines like bottom feeders on bullshit such as Palin's daughter.)

Heres the thing. People keep saying this. But I havent seen anyone attacking Palin's daughter.


Using her as proof that Palin's sex ed policy sucks? Sure. Because Palin made her a political tool, making her fair game.

But no one has said shes a slut or an idiot or called her ugly or anything like that.
EDIT: I havent read the whole thread, so maybe they have. But I sure missed it.

I had several professors who marked up papers that I wrote. The profs indicated that my speech was not PC. I met with them privately and explained to them that they do not need to mark up my papers so because I am not PC and do not wish to be PC and that PC stuff offends me deeply. Fortunately, they did not push the issue.

Id be curious to see what these "not PC" comments you made were. Knowing you, I have a feeling they were a bit beyond "non PC".

I also was placed on disciplinary probation for helping a friend have a stripper come to his dormroom. There was no rule against it. I was told that it was against the school's never defined values and that it was offensive to women (ie a bunch of feminazi nonsense). A bunch of liberal fascists!

Considering the dorm is school property, they have a right to punish you for engaging in activities that they deem inappropriate. Its property rights.

I thought you right wingers were all about property rights.

Heres the thing. People keep saying this. But I havent seen anyone attacking Palin's daughter.


Using her as proof that Palin's sex ed policy sucks? Sure. Because Palin made her a political tool, making her fair game.

But no one has said shes a slut or an idiot or called her ugly or anything like that.
EDIT: I havent read the whole thread, so maybe they have. But I sure missed it.
This whole thread serves no purpose except to circle jerk around how stupid Palin (currently a non-politician) is.

I don't like Palin either...but there are more important things and like I said...it says a great deal to me that the thread about Obama's iraq policy now being identical to Bush's is largely ignored while this thread is rather large yet contenless.

I had several professors who marked up papers that I wrote. The profs indicated that my speech was not PC. I met with them privately and explained to them that they do not need to mark up my papers so because I am not PC and do not wish to be PC and that PC stuff offends me deeply. Fortunately, they did not push the issue.
I'd enquire as to what you mean by 'marked up', i.e. did you lose marks on an essay or were they 'just' commenting on your use of language, and a specific example of writing that lecturers deemed 'not PC'.

A bunch of liberal fascists!
Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Id be curious to see what these "not PC" comments you made were. Knowing you, I have a feeling they were a bit beyond "non PC".



Considering the dorm is school property, they have a right to punish you for engaging in activities that they deem inappropriate. Its property rights.

I thought you right wingers were all about property rights.

I do not use politically correct language. That does not make me stupid. It also does not make me a bad person.

Seeing as how my friend leased the dorm he has a property right too. I am all about property rights and I am a right winger.

This whole thread serves no purpose except to circle jerk around how stupid Palin (currently a non-politician) is.


Shes still a GOP forerunner and figurehead, and thus is a fair target.

And that doesnt mean anyone is attacking Bristol, which was your original claim.

I don't like Palin either...but there are more important things and like I said...it says a great deal to me that the thread about Obama's iraq policy now being identical to Bush's is largely ignored while this thread is rather large yet contenless.

Start a thread about it that isnt blatant trolling or failed satire like the last one. A thread you start on it would at least have an intellegent OP. Ill be glad to engage in a discussion on that.

I do not use politically correct language. That does not make me stupid. It also does not make me a bad person.

Never said it did. I did say that I think your "non PC" language was a bit more then that. It was most likely inflamitory and unprofessional.

Seeing as how my friend leased the dorm he has a property right too. I am all about property rights and I am a right winger.

Key word is leased. The dorm is still ultimately their property.

Heres the thing. People keep saying this. But I havent seen anyone attacking Palin's daughter.


Using her as proof that Palin's sex ed policy sucks? Sure. Because Palin made her a political tool, making her fair game.

But no one has said shes a slut or an idiot or called her ugly or anything like that.
EDIT: I havent read the whole thread, so maybe they have. But I sure missed it.
No one has said "Bristol Palin is a loose woman," or anything like that. But treating her breaking off the engagement as an actual news story, and then having comments like (but not limited to), "Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up."* Isn't it funny how Bristol Palin did the exact opposite of what her mother wanted? And now she has an unwanted child? And look, now she doesn't even have a husband! A laugh riot, to be sure.

*I'm just using the OP because it's the easiest post to find. The OP himself didn't say anything worse than others.

I do not use politically correct language. That does not make me stupid.
No it doesn't.

But rather than going round in circles, could you give us an example of non-PC language that you'd use in an essay, that your lecturers would object to?



No one has said "Bristol Palin is a loose woman," or anything like that. But treating her breaking off the engagement as an actual news story, and then having comments like (but not limited to), "Splendid, innit? Bible Spice, for all her talk of conservative values, has her daughter showing precisely how do they end up."* Isn't it funny how Bristol Palin did the exact opposite of what her mother wanted? And now she has an unwanted child? And look, now she doesn't even have a husband! A laugh riot, to be sure.

*I'm just using the OP because it's the easiest post to find. The OP himself didn't say anything worse than others.
/\ This.

Shes still a GOP forerunner and figurehead, and thus is a fair target.

And that doesnt mean anyone is attacking Bristol, which was your original claim.
I didn't say attacking, I said getting caught up in the bullshit about her daughter.

Palin is a fair target, I'd just wonder if this is actually an important issue. Palin's family matters. It just seems to me as annoying as those peope that read those awful magazines about celebrity's private lives. I just hate that kind of stuff, dude.


Start a thread about it that isnt blatant trolling or failed satire like the last one. A thread you start on it would at least have an intellegent OP. Ill be glad to engage in a discussion on that.
It wasn't the most intelligent OP but I guess it was legit because the Mods didn't close it. Anyway, I'm not gonna start an identical thread, but thank you.

Cant prove a negative. How about you prove that they have been. And that it happens with regularity. Once again, showing one or two cases is not proof that it happens all the time.

EDIT: Oh, and for the record, because I have a feeling you'll confuse the two, outright racism, homophobia, prejudice, etc is more then just being "politically incorrect". Showing me an article about a few rednecks getting kicked out of uni for hanging up a noose and claiming its "proof" will just cause me to laugh at and mock you.

*drums fingers on desk*

Waiting...

I didn't say attacking, I said getting caught up in the bullshit about her daughter.

Palin is a fair target, I'd just wonder if this is actually an important issue. Palin's family matters. It just seems to me as annoying as those peope that read those awful magazines about celebrity's private lives. I just hate that kind of stuff, dude.



It wasn't the most intelligent OP but I guess it was legit because the Mods didn't close it. Anyway, I'm not gonna start an identical thread, but thank you.

You could always go defend Ayn Rand. You used to think she was cool, didn't you?

*drums fingers on desk*

Waiting...

I remember hearing about a student that was tossed out of a university for telling a bunch of other students to quiet down because he was trying to study. I believe he compared their noise to a herd of water buffalo or something. Somehow this was un pc.

I remember hearing about a student that was tossed out of a university for telling a bunch of other students to quiet down because he was trying to study. I believe he compared their noise to a herd of water buffalo or something. Somehow this was un pc.

You remember hearing? I think youre full of shit. Lets see a source.

Key word is leased. The dorm is still ultimately their property.

However, residential residents have a lot of rights and rightly so. Although a landlord can evict a tenant for not following the rules, the tenant must have notice of the rules.

However, residential residents have a lot of rights and rightly so. Although a landlord can evict a tenant for not following the rules, the tenant must have notice of the rules.

Yeah, and Im pretty sure bringing a stripper in broke the rules. I know it would at every uni I am familiar with. Unless you have a copy of the rules, Im going to assume youre not telling the truth.

You remember hearing? I think youre full of shit. Lets see a source.

http://www.shadowuniv.com/waterbuffalo/wb3.html

http://www.shadowuniv.com/waterbuffalo/wb3.html

Totally different from what you claimed. Calling people animals for no apparent reason is not what you claimed. It also seems race was a big part, considering the other students even initially said he used racial slurs.

Try again.


EDIT: Besides, it happening once is not proof that Unis toss kids out for "not being PC". So much for your "ebil libruhl" boogieman.

Yeah, and Im pretty sure bringing a stripper in broke the rules. I know it would at every uni I am familiar with. Unless you have a copy of the rules, Im going to assume youre not telling the truth.

Thanks for assuming that I am a liar. You and H2 have something in common.:(

Look, all they said was that according to the student handbook, the school is a value added university. They went on to say that because the school was founded by Lutherans, that the values are Lutheran values and that stripping is an affront to lutheran values. They also said it was offensive to women or something. It was all pretty vague and sketchy. They were so full of BS.

Look, all they said was that according to the student handbook, the school is a value added university. They went on to say that because the school was founded by Lutherans, that the values are Lutheran values and that stripping is an affront to lutheran values. They also said it was offensive to women or something. It was all pretty vague and sketchy. They were so full of BS.

So it sounds like they actually had a rule against what you did.

So it sounds like they actually had a rule against what you did.

No. There was no rule. There was only the statement in the preamble of the student handbook that the college is a "value added university". The rest was just administrators trying to force a square peg through a circular hole.

http://www.shadowuniv.com/waterbuffalo/wb3.html

Link to an actual news article about the water buffalo incident. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE2DE1338F936A15756C0A965958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

Yeah, and Im pretty sure bringing a stripper in broke the rules. I know it would at every uni I am familiar with. Unless you have a copy of the rules, Im going to assume youre not telling the truth.

Assuming that there are colleges that have no strippers rules, isnt that a liberal rule? Arent the christian extremists and the feminazis the ones that have a problem with strippers and pornongraphy? They seem to be the only ones that get worked up about these things and try to limit erotic expression.

Link to an actual news article about the water buffalo incident. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE2DE1338F936A15756C0A965958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

Excellent.

Assuming that there are colleges that have no strippers rules, isnt that a liberal rule? Arent the christian extremists and the feminazis the ones that have a problem with strippers and pornongraphy? They seem to be the only ones that get worked up about these things and try to limit erotic expression.


I like how you paint all feminist with a big brush. You clearly dont know what that word means. They have different opinions among themselves on many things, porn included.

And, no, limiting expression is not a "liberal rule". Its clear that youre one of those people who tries to paint everything you dislike as being of your opponents politics.

Remember, it was conservatives that led the fight against porn to the supreme court.

What do 2 adults deciding to break up have to do with one of their parents? It's not like Sarah Palin can force them to stay together or get married.

Well, I think its more the "Sanctity of Marriage" bullshit they try and cram down people's throats...

I mean, on one hand Id be inclined to agree with you, if they were just Random Politician A, but when you put yourself up on the pedestal of moral righteousness the way the Palins did, they should prepare to be knocked down...

Same goes for their whole damn party...

Its clear that youre one of those people who tries to paint everything you dislike as being of your opponents politics.

Remember, it was conservatives that led the fight against porn to the supreme court.
Um...

:P

Um...

:P

I never claimed all conservatives hate porn however. Censorship doesnt really have a political ideology to champion it. People from every stripe on the specturm will support censorship or condem it.

My point was, he tried to say "lulz libruhls hate porn, conservatives dont care and dont repress expression".

History shows his claim is bull.

I never claimed all conservatives hate porn however. Censorship doesnt really have a political ideology to champion it. People from every stripe on the specturm will support censorship or condem it.

My point was, he tried to say "lulz libruhls hate porn, conservatives dont care and dont repress expression".

History shows his claim is bull.

I think this calls for bringing back a classic...

Why do you hate Freedom? :p

Excellent.




I like how you paint all feminist with a big brush. You clearly dont know what that word means. They have different opinions among themselves on many things, porn included.

And, no, limiting expression is not a "liberal rule". Its clear that youre one of those people who tries to paint everything you dislike as being of your opponents politics.

Remember, it was conservatives that led the fight against porn to the supreme court.

Only feminist extremists would oppose strippers and porn, hence the term "feminazi". Feminazis are extremists who wish to impose their views on others through political action. These people are a far cry from the suffragettes and other moderates.

I do paint almost everything that I dislike as being a part of my opponents' politics. This is because I view the conservative use of governmental power in dilemnas where the right of a government or other institution (such as a college) conflicts with the right of the individual. This hesitation to curtail individual freedom is the essence of the conservative. The liberal use of authority to solve dilemnas at the expense of individual liberty is liberalism.

This is not to say that I am conservative on all issues. But I do identify myself as a conservative because I love liberty.

The liberal use of authority to solve dilemnas at the expense of individual liberty is liberalism.
John Locke is turning in his grave.

Only feminist extremists would oppose strippers and porn, hence the term "feminazi". Feminazis are extremists who wish to impose their views on others through political action. These people are a far cry from the suffragettes and other moderates.

More tar and feathering I see. You know some "feminazis" actually support non-expoiltive porn and even prostitution, believing it empowers women and their sexuality?

I do paint almost everything that I dislike as being a part of my opponents' politics. This is because I view the conservative use of governmental power in dilemnas where the right of a government or other institution (such as a college) conflicts with the right of the individual. This hesitation to curtail individual freedom is the essence of the conservative. The liberal use of authority to solve dilemnas at the expense of individual liberty is liberalism.


All of this, it is le crap.

You could always go defend Ayn Rand. You used to think she was cool, didn't you?
I still do.

And that thread gives me a headache. I was reading through it yesterday. :p

I'm actually about to buy Atlas Shrugged and read it soon.

I never claimed all conservatives hate porn however. Censorship doesnt really have a political ideology to champion it. People from every stripe on the specturm will support censorship or condem it.

My point was, he tried to say "lulz libruhls hate porn, conservatives dont care and dont repress expression".

History shows his claim is bull.

Conservatives have a habit of secretly indulging in whatever they publically oppose and try to suppress by law.

Homosexuality and Gay Marriage for example. Mark Foley's Textcellent Adventure, Ted Haggard's Massageboard Confessional and Larry Craig's Happy Feet.

At least Bill Clinton didn't try to outlaw blowjobs.

I still do.

And that thread gives me a headache. I was reading through it yesterday. :p

I'm actually about to buy Atlas Shrugged and read it soon.

I hope it inspires you to Go Galt.

At least Bill Clinton didn't try to outlaw blowjobs.
Or rimjobs ;)

That was only three 'Conservatives' though, out of anyone and everyone who believes in Conservatism. If I claimed "Muslisms" tend to believe in Terrorism and then cited 3 (!) muslims who are pro-terrorism as by backing for that statement, your weak little lower intestine would shit your pants . . .

I hope it inspires you to Go Galt.
You really want me to leave? :(

:p I won't be leaving. I'll be between Europe and the US forever.

I don't like going Galt because to me that's like giving up. I don't like management strikes any more than labor strikes. ;)

Or rimjobs ;)

That was only three 'Conservatives' though, out of anyone who believes in Conservatism. If I claimed "Muslism" tend to believe in Terrorism and then cited 3 (!) muslims who are pro-terrorism as by backing for that statement, your weak little lower intestine would shit your pants . . .

True, but Muslims arent a political party, Conservatives (i.e Republicans) try and claim the "Sanctity" of their policies, but dont actually comply in their actions...

they try to tell others not to do the exact things they themselves do...

Its really more about the fact that Republicans like to think of themselves as the saintly moral God's party, when members of their party are always getting themselves into scandal after scandal...

Thats not to say Democrats dont, but they do not put theselves up on the pedestal and try to tell everyone how godly they are...

I was under the impression that GF was using the term 'liberal' to refer to anyone left-of-centre.

My politics department varied. I've been taught by an anarchist, someone on the centre-left, a right-wing libertarian, and my IR class was basically an apologist lesson for US foreign policy post-1950.

I'd say this: I haven't come across too many social conservatives who teach in university, even in something like the Divinity department. Though I'm sure they exist.

Most of my profs who actually expressed political viewpoints tended to be right-wing.

Now, I don't know about social conservatives, but most of them were Republican-types.

That said, I do think it would be more difficult to be socially conservative (from a political standpoint, not a personal one) after being educated. You're exposed to too many different people and viewpoints to hold to such things.

True, but Muslims arent a political party, Conservatives (i.e Republicans)
I'll have to stop you right there. Anyone who has studied political science can tell you that "Conservatives" aren't an American political party. Indeed. when polled you can find Democrats who call themselves Conservatives and even (yes) a small amount of Republicans who call themselves liberal.

He said Conservatives, not Republicans.

His statement was wrong.

I'll have to stop you right there. Anyone who has studied political science can tell you that "Conservatives" aren't an American political party. Indeed. when polled you can find Democrats who call themselves Conservatives and even (yes) a small amount of Republicans who call themselves liberal.

He said Conservatives, not Republicans.

His statement was wrong.

Okay, I'll admit to overshooting by using "Consevatives". After all, not all of them are fundmentalist Busheviks. However, you do notice the more morally vocal hypocrites tend to have R somewhere before their names.

I'll have to stop you right there. Anyone who has studied political science can tell you that "Conservatives" aren't an American political party. Indeed. when polled you can find Democrats who call themselves Conservatives and even (yes) a small amount of Republicans who call themselves liberal.

He said Conservatives, not Republicans.

His statement was wrong.

Maybe, but its hard to deny the Social Conservative party in America is undoubtedly the Republicans...

Ask Beck, Schnit, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc...theyll tell you...

You really want me to leave? :(

:p I won't be leaving. I'll be between Europe and the US forever.

I don't like going Galt because to me that's like giving up. I don't like management strikes any more than labor strikes. ;)
In a dinghy?

In a dinghy?

Nah. In his rubber room there is a map of the US on one wall and a map of Europe on the other. :p

In a dinghy?

Maybe he's here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Rockall-photo.JPG

True, but Muslims arent a political party, Conservatives (i.e Republicans) try and claim the "Sanctity" of their policies, but dont actually comply in their actions...

they try to tell others not to do the exact things they themselves do...

Its really more about the fact that Republicans like to think of themselves as the saintly moral God's party, when members of their party are always getting themselves into scandal after scandal...

Thats not to say Democrats dont, but they do not put theselves up on the pedestal and try to tell everyone how godly they are...

Republicans are only one half conservatives. They tend to be conservative on economic freedoms but liberal on social issues. They want big government involvement on moral issues but plenty of economic liberty. Democrats are the opposite. Both parties are only half liberal or half conservative. That is why they are both moderate parties.

Republicans are only one half conservatives. They tend to be conservative on economic freedoms but liberal on social issues. They want big government involvement on moral issues but plenty of economic liberty. Democrats are the opposite. Both parties are only half liberal or half conservative. That is why they are both moderate parties.

Being liberal on a social issue means you want to restrict it?


Its official, you dont know what the word "liberal" or "conservative" means. Please, leave NSG until you do.

Being liberal on a social issue means you want to restrict it?


Its official, you dont know what the word "liberal" or "conservative" means. Please, leave NSG until you do.

I was going to say that, But i just didnt think it merited a response, lol...:rolleyes:

Maybe he's here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Rockall-photo.JPG

Heeeey... a coupla miles off that rock you can find Rapture.

Okay, I'll admit to overshooting by using "Consevatives". After all, not all of them are fundmentalist Busheviks. However, you do notice the more morally vocal hypocrites tend to have R somewhere before their names.
On things like homosexuality, yeah. There are some big hypocrites in the Republican party....as in the Church. I'm reminded of the ultra leftist hollywood types who talk about race relations and everyone getting along and of the integrated public school system, while they live up in the White Hollywood hills and send their kids to almost all white private schools up in the hills.

The amount of hypocrisy, on various issues, from both sides is ridiculous. Yet, I wouldn't claim of the Democrat party being hypocratic, due to the examples set by a few Democrats, you see?

Maybe, but its hard to deny the Social Conservative party in America is undoubtedly the Republicans...

Ask Beck, Schnit, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc...theyll tell you...
Social Conservatives may vote largely for the Republican party, but that doesn't mean the Republican party = social conservatism.

Also, many Blacks and Latinos who are rather religious and often anti-homosexuality and such...vote rather largely Democrat, remember that.
In a dinghy?

Nah. In his rubber room there is a map of the US on one wall and a map of Europe on the other. :p

Maybe he's here: *SNIP*

You guys are all wrong:
:p

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Atlantis_map_1882.jpg

You guys are all wrong:
:p

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Atlantis_map_1882.jpg
According to that map, Skallvia is right. So, how's the guano business, Mr. Galt? :tongue:

Social Conservatives may vote largely for the Republican party, but that doesn't mean the Republican party = social conservatism.

Also, many Blacks and Latinos who are rather religious and often anti-homosexuality and such...vote rather largely Democrat, remember that.



The difference is, however, that although there are many religious, homophobes that vote for both parties...

Only one presents the Religious, Homophobic agenda, and Its the Republican Party...

Being liberal on a social issue means you want to restrict it?


Its official, you dont know what the word "liberal" or "conservative" means. Please, leave NSG until you do.

Nope. You are the one who is confused. The confusion comes from the fact that republicans are perceived as being conservative and therefore any republican party plank is seen as conservative.

You and H2 have something in common.:(

Must you insult him so?

According to that map, Skallvia is right. So, how's the guano business, Mr. Galt? :tongue:
Shitty. :D
The difference is, however, that although there are many religious, homophobes that vote for both parties...

Only one presents the Religious, Homophobic agenda, and Its the Republican Party...
I'd argue if proposing traditional marriage is equal to having an irrational fear and or loathing of homosexuality?

(playing devils advocate...I don't really care about these social isues in reality)

Nope. You are the one who is confused. The confusion comes from the fact that republicans are perceived as being conservative and therefore any republican party plank is seen as conservative.

Liberal = Progressive

Conservative = Keeping the status quo.

Restricting persoal freedoms is not "liberal". You can keep repeating the same thing over and over again, but youre still wrong, and all you are doing is showing everyone how ignorant you are.

I'd argue if proposing traditional marriage is equal to having an irrational fear and or loathing of homosexuality?

(playing devils advocate...I don't really care about these social isues in reality)

Id argue that it presents an irrational fear and/or loathing of Homosexual Marriage...

Its just a stones throw away....

Id argue that it presents an irrational fear and/or loathing of Homosexual Marriage...

Its just a stones throw away....
Hmm. I feel that most people I've met who oppose gay marriage don't do it because they "hate fags", but rather because they have a conservative outlook on social-evolution that says "Why change what's not broken?"

Hmm. I feel that most people I've met who oppose gay marriage don't do it because they "hate fags", but rather because they have a conservative outlook on social-evolution that says "Why change what's not broken?"

Id argue that its entirely broken, Any kind of argument saying that straight marriages are somehow better or more right than gay ones is ludicrous...

My parents were collectively divorced 3 times, Marriage doesnt mean crap, its entirely broken...

Hmm. I feel that most people I've met who oppose gay marriage don't do it because they "hate fags", but rather because they have a conservative outlook on social-evolution that says "Why change what's not broken?"You mean, "I got mine Jack, what's YOUR problem?"
It is, of course, totally broken for ME, but conservatives do not care about that, because... well, because they "hate fags".

Hmm. I feel that most people I've met who oppose gay marriage don't do it because they "hate fags", but rather because they have a conservative outlook on social-evolution that says "Why change what's not broken?"

I'm sure the same argument was made for those who opposed interracial marriage.

But, at the very root of either, is the assumption that it is ok to enforce bigotry. That a system that institutionalizes it is, as you say, "not broken."

My parents were collectively divorced 3 times, Marriage doesnt mean crap, its entirely broken...
Opinion. And that's why free and open political debate exists. However, just because you think marriage is broken doesn't mean (I'm assuming) you hate married couples.

You mean, "I got mine Jack, what's YOUR problem?"
It is, of course, totally broken for ME, but conservatives do not care about that, because... well, because they "hate fags".
Again, opnion. Yes you could look at it that way. "It has been working for us and our society for centuries, so why change it." That is a core principle of Conservatism and has nothing to do with hate but everything to do with keeping and conserving the status quo.

Or rimjobs ;)

That was only three 'Conservatives' though, out of anyone and everyone who believes in Conservatism. If I claimed "Muslisms" tend to believe in Terrorism and then cited 3 (!) muslims who are pro-terrorism as by backing for that statement, your weak little lower intestine would shit your pants . . .

Too much detail, TAI. Cut it out.

Opinion. And that's why free and open political debate exists. However, just because you think marriage is broken doesn't mean (I'm assuming) you hate married couples.

I was simply using my parents as an example, the numbers of divorces speak for themselves, there is no such thing as "sanctity" in Marriage, and therefore protecting this supposed concept is ludicrous...


Again, opnion. Yes you could look at it that way. "It has been working for us and our society for centuries, so why change it." That is a core principle of Conservatism and has nothing to do with hate but everything to do with keeping and conserving the status quo.

It may be a core principle, that doesnt make it right, just ask an Interracial Couple, or a Homosexual Couple...

or go back a few decades and ask a Black Man...

Liberal = Progressive

Conservative = Keeping the status quo.

Restricting persoal freedoms is not "liberal". You can keep repeating the same thing over and over again, but youre still wrong, and all you are doing is showing everyone how ignorant you are.

Liberal = Big government and therefore a restriction of individual liberty. I.e. a liberal use of governmental power.

Conservative = Smaller government and therefore greater protection of individual freedom. I.e. a conservative use of governmental power.

Progressive = the false notion that if something changes that change is for the best. Voltaire demonstrated this absurdity in Candide.

Again, opnion. Yes you could look at it that way. "It has been working for us and our society for centuries, so why change it." That is a core principle of Conservatism and has nothing to do with hate but everything to do with keeping and conserving the status quo.

The problem with this statement is that it assumes that the status quo cannot, itself, be based in hatred.

Sometimes, the status quo is institutionalized bigotry and hatred. If you wish to preserve it, it means that you wish to preserve that bigotry and hatred.

Liberal = Big government and therefore a restriction of individual liberty. I.e. a liberal use of governmental power.

Conservative = Smaller government and therefore greater protection of individual freedom. I.e. a conservative use of governmental power.

Progressive = the false notion that if something changes that change is for the best. Voltaire demonstrated this absurdity in Candide.

Mmm, should I let him make a spectacle of himself or get him a dictionary...

Meh.

Liberal = Big government and therefore a restriction of individual liberty. I.e. a liberal use of governmental power.

Conservative = Smaller government and therefore greater protection of individual freedom. I.e. a conservative use of governmental power.

Progressive = the false notion that if something changes that change is for the best. Voltaire demonstrated this absurdity in Candide.

Nooooooooooo...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conservative
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal

Notice the lack of "big government" in the liberal definition.

Youre done here.

Liberal = Big government and therefore a restriction of individual liberty. I.e. a liberal use of governmental power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals.[1]

Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity.

Conservative = Smaller government and therefore greater protection of individual freedom. I.e. a conservative use of governmental power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

Conservatism is a political and social term whose meaning has changed in different countries and time periods, but which usually indicates support for the status quo or the status quo ante. Cultural conservatism is a philosophy that supports preservation of the heritage of a nation or culture.

Progressive = the false notion that if something changes that change is for the best. Voltaire demonstrated this absurdity in Candide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism_in_the_United_States

In U.S. history, the term progressivism refers to a broadly-based reform movement that reached its height early in the 20th century. The initial progressive movement arose as a response to the vast changes brought by the industrial revolution. Contemporary progressives continue to embrace concepts such as environmentalism and social justice[1]. Social progressivism, which states that societal practices ought to be adjusted as society evolves, forms the ideological basis for many American progressives. Alonzo L. Hamby defines progressivism as the "political movement that addresses ideas, impulses, and issues stemming from modernization of American society. Emerging at the end of the nineteenth century, it established much of the tone of American politics throughout the first half of the century."[2]



In other words...Epic Fail...