NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-of-the-President-As-Prepared-for-Delivery-Signing-of-Stem-Cell-Executive-Order-and-Scientific-Integrity-Presidential-Memorandum/

Finally. Diseases will be cured and there's nothing any nutcase can do about it.

hooray!

hooray!



I second the above statement.

Now can I live to be over a 100?

Now can I live to be over a 100?

Who wants to do that though?


You know, the path this world is going and all that...

Wootage.

I would not mind living to be about 125 yrs old, personally. I am glad that Obama is willing to fund this; my opinion of him is slowly changing to, albeit grudgingly, a respect for his integrity. Our president is proving himself to be an honorable, trustworthy man.

It's interesting that this announcement would be made despite this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/01/stem-cells-breakthrough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3314696/Dolly-creator-Prof-Ian-Wilmut-shuns-cloning.html

I'm glad Obama is increasing funding for scientific research, but I'll be disappointed if this order ends up diverting money from what seems to be a potentially less divisive method of getting treatments for these illnesses.

Or am I missing something here? :confused:

I await the first natural disaster I can blame this decision on for reckoning by God.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-of-the-President-As-Prepared-for-Delivery-Signing-of-Stem-Cell-Executive-Order-and-Scientific-Integrity-Presidential-Memorandum/

Finally. Diseases will be cured and there's nothing any nutcase can do about it.

Now the Uruk-Hai breeding program can be under way...

seems like libs can't kill babies fast enough so now they have to clone more to kill.

seems like libs can't kill babies fast enough so now they have to clone more to kill.

I'm going with Satire...

Finally . . .

I'm going with Satire...

Okay, okay, no betting before the bookie gets in.

One for joke.

Okay, everyone, trolling, joking or insane, make your bets...

To OP:
Science and reason make a come back... Sweeeet.:cool:

I await the first natural disaster I can blame this decision on for reckoning by God.

Good bets are on hurricanes that hit the gulf coast, earth quake on the west coast, tornados in the heartland, floods in lowland areas, drought in inland areas, economic reseccion, etc... You know any of these areas that already have a long history of such natural occurances.

I await the first natural disaster I can blame this decision on for reckoning by God.

So South Korea was pre-punished in WW2?

Good bets are on hurricanes that hit the gulf coast, earth quake on the west coast, tornados in the heartland, floods in lowland areas, drought in inland areas, economic reseccion, etc... You know any of these areas that already have a long history of such natural occurances.

Yup, I'll take anything.

So South Korea was pre-punished in WW2?

No idea what you mean but probably.

EDIT: Hours later.... oh yes, the South Korean guy who announced cloning, go on then, yes, WW2 and everything since then.

...there's nothing any nutcase can do about it.

See, it's statements like that that provoke nutcases to do things. It's like you're a Bond villian who has just said 'Nothing can stop me now!' or a movie cop who has stated his intention to retire and/or get married.

Texas aint gonna be sleepin' tonight.

See, it's statements like that that provoke nutcases to do things. It's like you're a Bond villian who has just said 'Nothing can stop me now!' or a movie cop who has stated his intention to retire and/or get married.

+1

For what it's worth, I actually agree with Heikoku on this one, I just don't like how he has to be a jerk about it.

For what it's worth, I actually agree with Heikoku on this one, I just don't like how he has to be a jerk about it.

There's nothing you can do to keep that ship from sailing...best you can do is not take it seriously.

While I don't think that science should be bound by petty morality the way this is being portrayed the private sector didn't even bother to pursue this line of research during the federal funding ban. I didn't think the research itself were banned and if the promises made are accurate then it seems like a profitable venture.

Maybe stem cell research isn't going to be enough to keep you alive to 125. I think we should focus on a longer term solution to aging and disease, full body prosthesis. Just scoop out the brain and stick in it a droid. And then when you die you can just come back to life in a new body. The older models could be kept around as servants. What could possibly go wrong?

...Just scoop out the brain and stick in it a droid. And then when you die you can just come back to life in a new body... What could possibly go wrong?

You mean via some memory download device?... Worse that could happen: the liberals of today become the conservatives of tomorrow.

You mean via some memory download device?... Worse that could happen: the liberals of today become the conservatives of tomorrow.

Doesn't that happen now anyways? Wasn't it Churchill who said 'If a man is not a liberal when he is young, he has no heart, and if he is not a conservative when he is older, he has no brains?'

Okay, okay, no betting before the bookie gets in.

One for joke.

Okay, everyone, trolling, joking or insane, make your bets...

... put me down for insane, I like those odds if I win.



Maybe stem cell research isn't going to be enough to keep you alive to 125. I think we should focus on a longer term solution to aging and disease, full body prosthesis. Just scoop out the brain and stick in it a droid. And then when you die you can just come back to life in a new body. The older models could be kept around as servants. What could possibly go wrong?

People, people, have you not seen this movie? Everyone would go insane and convert people involvuntarily, once they have done everyone on earth, they will set out into the stars, destroying and converting organic life wherever they went.

I'm going with satire.

Let the brain drain commence

Now can I live to be over a 100?

Why would you want to? I personally wouldn't want to live a day past 50.

Doesn't that happen now anyways? Wasn't it Churchill who said 'If a man is not a liberal when he is young, he has no heart, and if he is not a conservative when he is older, he has no brains?'

It was used many times before, and Churchill got it wrong.

For instance, Lloyd George is earlier attributed with "A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn’t got a head."

Churchill muffed it, if he said it at all.

In b4 God smites America

Lifting the ban is nice, but for me the major prize was getting to hear a US president actually recognize that science has value. Even if it's just lip service, it's still great, if only because it's another reminder that for the first time in my adult life we have an articulate, informed adult holding down the office of President.

Now can I live to be over a 100?

Only if the research turns out the way it plans.

+1

For what it's worth, I actually agree with Heikoku on this one, I just don't like how he has to be a jerk about it.

He is, H2.

Doesn't that happen now anyways? Wasn't it Churchill who said 'If a man is not a liberal when he is young, he has no heart, and if he is not a conservative when he is older, he has no brains?'

I was a liberal until I was 10. I guess us conservatives get our youth over with pretty early.

Doesn't that happen now anyways? Wasn't it Churchill who said 'If a man is not a liberal when he is young, he has no heart, and if he is not a conservative when he is older, he has no brains?'

I was a conservative (never a neocon, and always anti-GOP) until a few years ago, when I became a lower-case "L" libertarian, and then later (about a year ago) when I became a free market anarchist.

See, it's statements like that that provoke nutcases to do things. It's like you're a Bond villian who has just said 'Nothing can stop me now!' or a movie cop who has stated his intention to retire and/or get married.

I like to gloat. *Shrugs*

Though it may not be genre savvy.

I was a liberal until I was 10. I guess us conservatives get our youth over with pretty early.

Funny, I was a conservative till I was 10. Then I matured.

He is, H2.

I am, but must you highlight it?

What is with you weirdos actually having proper political opinions at 10?


Oh wait, you're just trying to insult each other. Silly me.

I was a liberal until I was 10. I guess us conservatives get our youth over with pretty early.
Dude, you're going to have to wait at least a generation before you can go back to claiming conservatives are the "mature" ones. Trying to claim that now, with Bush just barely out of office, isn't going to work. :P

Dude, you're going to have to wait at least a generation before you can go back to claiming conservatives are the "mature" ones. Trying to claim that now, with Bush just barely out of office, isn't going to work. :P

I should have burned him with something like this.

...I'm sleepy...

I was a liberal until I was 10. I guess us conservatives get our youth over with pretty early.

You had no serious concept of politics at 10, so spare us your absurd attempts at insult.

You had no serious concept of politics at 10, so spare us your absurd attempts at insult.

Says the all knowing Sdaeriji.Yeah you probably are right.

I am, but must you highlight it?

Just letting the newer posters about your personality. That's why I love you, H2.

Just letting the newer posters about your personality. That's why I love you, H2.

I like to think of myself as this forum's Mayuri Kurotsuchi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayuri_Kurotsuchi#Mayuri_Kurotsuchi).

As such, it'd be corteous on your part to allow me to take them to my lab and dissect them before telling them about my nature. :p

I like to think of myself as this forum's Mayuri Kurotsuchi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayuri_Kurotsuchi#Mayuri_Kurotsuchi).

As such, it'd be corteous on your part to allow me to take them to my lab and dissect them before telling them about my nature. :p

I'll remember that in the future.

I was a staunch religious conservative until Bush (actually Cheney:p) came to power. Then I slowly drifted leftwards until I became a border line socialist, although still very much Christian. Since that time I have fully integrated my socialistic views with my conservative views and have learned more about participatory economics, which I agree with more so than traditional socialism.

It's interesting that this announcement would be made despite this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/01/stem-cells-breakthrough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3314696/Dolly-creator-Prof-Ian-Wilmut-shuns-cloning.html

I'm glad Obama is increasing funding for scientific research, but I'll be disappointed if this order ends up diverting money from what seems to be a potentially less divisive method of getting treatments for these illnesses.

Or am I missing something here? :confused:

You are missing something here. Despite the media hype, the IPS cells do not react to stimulus in exactly the same way as actual embryonic stem cells. And they are not safe for use in cell therapy - largely because they have been genetically modified in order to reprogram them.

They are a big breakthrough and they will be useful in research going forward, but they are not a replacement for ES cells - and even the researchers who derived them will tell you that.

Also, it is unlikely that any money is going to be diverted by this decision. It just means that those who are already using ES cells in research funded by NIH and the like will now have access to newer, better kept cell lines. People aren't going to suddenly stop researching along other lines simply because the restrictions from this one have been lifted.

Lifting the ban is nice, but for me the major prize was getting to hear a US president actually recognize that science has value. Even if it's just lip service, it's still great, if only because it's another reminder that for the first time in my adult life we have an articulate, informed adult holding down the office of President.

^This! Several times over, this. A president who actually thinks that good science should take precedence over petty politics?!?! Amazing!

Hopefully, he'll live up to it.

I was a liberal until I was 10. I guess us conservatives get our youth over with pretty early.

I'm proud to say I was never a liberal. I advanced directly to "GO" and became a conservative around the third grade. :D

You are missing something here. Despite the media hype, the IPS cells do not react to stimulus in exactly the same way as actual embryonic stem cells. And they are not safe for use in cell therapy - largely because they have been genetically modified in order to reprogram them.

They are a big breakthrough and they will be useful in research going forward, but they are not a replacement for ES cells - and even the researchers who derived them will tell you that.

Also, it is unlikely that any money is going to be diverted by this decision. It just means that those who are already using ES cells in research funded by NIH and the like will now have access to newer, better kept cell lines. People aren't going to suddenly stop researching along other lines simply because the restrictions from this one have been lifted.

You're crazy. Everybody knows that at any given time, it is possible for only one line of scientific research to be carried out in the whole world.

I'm proud to say I was never a liberal. I advanced directly to "GO" and became a conservative around the third grade. :D

Ah, nothing says "intelligence" like not having changed or developed one's views since the third grade.

Ah, nothing says "intelligence" like not having changed or developed one's views since the third grade.

My views have certainly "developed". They've developed along conservative lines but with some libertarian tendencies. Try talking about things you know something about. Like, maybe, which recent Uga was the best mascot.

And don't get into an intelligence fight with me, pal. I've probably forgotten more than you've ever learned.

What is with you weirdos actually having proper political opinions at 10?

I was apolitical until I was about 15 or 16.

well, let's hope the Government and Corporations can act responsibly with this new feild of research. ;)

Biotech is going to go through the roof once this one really starts hitting the R&D market. For all the bitching people are making about the stock market's performance after Obama's inauguration, moves like this are guaranteed to drive things upward especially once the benefits of expanded research start hitting the market.

Personally, I think biotech is going to be the next big economic bubble, bigger than its previous bubble in the 1980's and possibly even bigger than the tech bubble of the 1990's, so any investors out there might want to consider picking up positions in these stocks now to reap the rewards once this recession is over and investment begins to rebound. I'd say it's guaranteed we're going to have a very favorable scientific climate for at least the next eight years (especially since many Republicans themselves are finding it difficult to really defend the ridiculous position of their hard right anti-stem cell supporters) so this will likely be a field people should look in to.

Overall, on the 2010+ timescale things are looking pretty good.

And don't get into an intelligence fight with me, pal. I've probably forgotten more than you've ever learned.

Then hopefully stem cell research will help cure your Alzheimer's.

Excellent. Finally Obama's done something decent.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-of-the-President-As-Prepared-for-Delivery-Signing-of-Stem-Cell-Executive-Order-and-Scientific-Integrity-Presidential-Memorandum/

Finally. Diseases will be cured and there's nothing any nutcase can do about it.

Let's remember that research is being done, diseases are being cured, and the US taxpayer hasn't had to foot the bill for stem cell research.

Biotech is going to go through the roof once this one really starts hitting the R&D market. For all the bitching people are making about the stock market's performance after Obama's inauguration, moves like this are guaranteed to drive things upward especially once the benefits of expanded research start hitting the market.

Personally, I think biotech is going to be the next big economic bubble, bigger than its previous bubble in the 1980's and possibly even bigger than the tech bubble of the 1990's, so any investors out there might want to consider picking up positions in these stocks now to reap the rewards once this recession is over and investment begins to rebound. I'd say it's guaranteed we're going to have a very favorable scientific climate for at least the next eight years (especially since many Republicans themselves are finding it difficult to really defend the ridiculous position of their hard right anti-stem cell supporters) so this will likely be a field people should look in to.

Overall, on the 2010+ timescale things are looking pretty good.
Who are the big biotech players? Genentech? They're riding the bottom right now. Roche? Maybe. Who else?

Let's remember that research is being done, diseases are being cured, and the US taxpayer hasn't had to foot the bill for stem cell research.

I wonder what a figurine of the market would look like. I'd give it to you for birthday - I do respect all sorts of religion after all.

I wonder what a figurine of the market would look like. I'd give it to you for birthday - I do respect all sorts of religion after all.

My thoughts on this matter are more along the lines of wondering why people embrace this as though it actually changes much of anything. Research has been done with ordinary cells and very effectively. Without getting into the whole baby-killing thing, what demonstrated advantages does embryonic stem cell research have over any other stem cell research?

Then hopefully stem cell research will help cure your Alzheimer's.

For crying out loud. Are we going to have to hear this about every fucking disease or disorder on these forums whenever one is mentioned?

EDIT: My mistake I actually saw that this was the stem cell thread. I saw someone else post a similar remark in another thread, so my point still stands.

For crying out loud. Are we going to have to hear this about every fucking disease or disorder on these forums whenever one is mentioned?

EDIT: My mistake I actually saw that this was the stem cell thread. I saw someone else post a similar remark in another thread, so my point still stands.

Then answer them! My post is an on-topic joke. What the hell do I have to do with someone else's off-topic remark in other thread? :p

For crying out loud. Are we going to have to hear this about every fucking disease or disorder on these forums whenever one is mentioned?

EDIT: My mistake I actually saw that this was the stem cell thread. I saw someone else post a similar remark in another thread, so my point still stands.
Hopefully stem cell research will cure your leprosy.

So, I was listening to the radio this morning and the "news" portion (like the 10 minute update) says "President Obama signed the spending bill even tough it's full of pork" and then not 2 minutes later it says "Fox news, fair and balanced" and my 7 year old says "um...not!"

:)

I'm glad something's happening......I was tired of bickering.

My thoughts on this matter are more along the lines of wondering why people embrace this as though it actually changes much of anything. Research has been done with ordinary cells and very effectively. Without getting into the whole baby-killing thing, what demonstrated advantages does embryonic stem cell research have over any other stem cell research?

Research has been done on aspirin very effectively, but that doesn't mean that aspirin is the only painkiller we'll ever need or that we should stop researching others.

That said, embryonic stem cells are the only cells that have been demonstrated to be totipotent - and that is without genetic modification. They have also given us a completely unmatched window into early human development.

What this changes is that now, instead of being largely limited to a few cell lines that have been kept in sub-optimal conditions (they were the first ones isolated, after all, and we didn't know as much as we do now about how best to maintain them), researchers are now far more likely to have the resources to create and maintain lines with the best available technology - and thus generate even more relevant data. In addition, this might open up the field for those seeking to study how various genetic diseases affect early development - and how best to counteract those effects.

So, I was listening to the radio this morning and the "news" portion (like the 10 minute update) says "President Obama signed the spending bill even tough it's full of pork" and then not 2 minutes later it says "Fox news, fair and balanced" and my 7 year old says "um...not!"

:)

I'm glad something's happening......I was tired of bickering.

Why are you listening to Fox News?

Research has been done on aspirin very effectively, but that doesn't mean that aspirin is the only painkiller we'll ever need or that we should stop researching others.

That said, embryonic stem cells are the only cells that have been demonstrated to be totipotent - and that is without genetic modification. They have also given us a completely unmatched window into early human development.

What this changes is that now, instead of being largely limited to a few cell lines that have been kept in sub-optimal conditions (they were the first ones isolated, after all, and we didn't know as much as we do now about how best to maintain them), researchers are now far more likely to have the resources to create and maintain lines with the best available technology - and thus generate even more relevant data. In addition, this might open up the field for those seeking to study how various genetic diseases affect early development - and how best to counteract those effects.
But doesn't the genetic modifications that results in the "induced pluripotent stem cells" (iPS), make all this old news? Wasn't this the number 1 breakthrough in the past year? To my understanding, the genetic modification is not difficult and results in the same pluripotent quality that made embryonic stem cells so desirable.

So my question is still valid. Aren't we getting all excited for political reasons more so than expanded scientific capability?

Sadly, this will cause the world to end (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=84048).

:tongue:

But doesn't the genetic modifications that results in the "induced pluripotent stem cells" (iPS), make all this old news? Wasn't this the number 1 breakthrough in the past year? To my understanding, the genetic modification is not difficult and results in the same pluripotent quality that made embryonic stem cells so desirable.

So my question is still valid. Aren't we getting all excited for political reasons more so than expanded scientific capability?

1- IIRC, genetic modification was somewhat costly,, somewhat less versatile, somewhat unsafe and somewhat prone to rendering the new cells useless.

2- Politically, it's good to see church and state drifting apart, though.

Sadly, this will cause the world to end (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=84048).

:tongue:

Dude, according to that message board EVERYTHING is a sign of the end of the world.

Methinks it's a lot of wishful thinking on their part - seriously reading up on the idea of the rapture (at least in the way most fundies consider it), it scares me that so many people are willing to embrace it and even use it to push a political agenda.

Sadly, this will cause the world to end (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=84048).

:tongue:

Ah, neocon true-believers suffering in fear and disgust...

How utterly ENJOYABLE...

Dude, according to that message board EVERYTHING is a sign of the end of the world.
Aye, and that's just what makes it so enjoyable source of political commentary! :D

Wheres the change?
It's interesting that this announcement would be made despite this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/01/stem-cells-breakthrough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3314696/Dolly-creator-Prof-Ian-Wilmut-shuns-cloning.html

I'm glad Obama is increasing funding for scientific research, but I'll be disappointed if this order ends up diverting money from what seems to be a potentially less divisive method of getting treatments for these illnesses.

Or am I missing something here? :confused:



Youre missing the part where those methods are not as versitile and have many other serious flaws and obsticles that we have yet to overcome.

Without getting into the whole baby-killing thing, what demonstrated advantages does embryonic stem cell research have over any other stem cell research?

Greater versitility.

But doesn't the genetic modifications that results in the "induced pluripotent stem cells" (iPS), make all this old news?

No. As I've already pointed out, iPS cells do not behave the same way in culture that hES cells do. They are similar, but there are marked differences.

Even the researchers themselves made it clear that they do not see iPS cells as a replacement for hES research, despite the religious right's eagerness to jump all over this as if it somehow rendered actual hES cells obsolete.

Wasn't this the number 1 breakthrough in the past year? To my understanding, the genetic modification is not difficult and results in the same pluripotent quality that made embryonic stem cells so desirable.

(a) Genetic modification also that these cells will probably never be used in any type of clinical setting. There is no way to control exactly where the genes are inserted and, as previous experiments in genetic engineering have shown, this makes the cells an incredible cancer risk. While these cells may be useful in a lab setting - as well as increasing our understanding of how to recognize and culture hES cells - they are not a replacement for the real thing.

(b) It is not yet clear whether or not the iPS cells are truly totipotent, as hES cells are. There hasn't been enough time to fully test that, and, as I said, marked differences in cell behavior have already been noted.

So my question is still valid. Aren't we getting all excited for political reasons more so than expanded scientific capability?

No.

No. As I've already pointed out, iPS cells do not behave the same way in culture that hES cells do. They are similar, but there are marked differences.

Even the researchers themselves made it clear that they do not see iPS cells as a replacement for hES research, despite the religious right's eagerness to jump all over this as if it somehow rendered actual hES cells obsolete.



(a) Genetic modification also that these cells will probably never be used in any type of clinical setting. There is no way to control exactly where the genes are inserted and, as previous experiments in genetic engineering have shown, this makes the cells an incredible cancer risk. While these cells may be useful in a lab setting - as well as increasing our understanding of how to recognize and culture hES cells - they are not a replacement for the real thing.

(b) It is not yet clear whether or not the iPS cells are truly totipotent, as hES cells are. There hasn't been enough time to fully test that, and, as I said, marked differences in cell behavior have already been noted.



No.
I'm still wondering if we're not just patting ourselves on the back for a political victory. From what I can find in a short literature search, every successful treatment that has used stem cells, has involved adult or umbilical cord blood stem cells, not embryonic. Is that not correct? Research with hES cells hasn't been halted, so I assume there are and have been researchers unsuccessfully working on treatments based on these cells, too.

If we can derive a successful treatment for Muscular Dystrophy from non-embryonic stem cells, why do we place such an unsupported value on what can be done with the hES cells? Especially since is seems that the value is completely undemonstrated?

I'm still wondering if we're not just patting ourselves on the back for a political victory.

*shrug* People see what they want to see.

From what I can find in a short literature search, every successful treatment that has used stem cells, has involved adult or umbilical cord blood stem cells, not embryonic. Is that not correct?

Thus far, yes. Every approved stem cell treatment has used adult or umbilical cord blood cells - almost exclusively hematopoietic cells. Given that we've been working with hematopoietic and other adult stem cells for decades longer than we've even had hES cells to work with, that really isn't a major point, though.

(Also, just a semantic note - umbilical cord blood cells are adult stem cells)

And Geron currently has an hES cell derived treatment in clinical trials.

Research with hES cells hasn't been halted, so I assume there are and have been researchers unsuccessfully working on treatments based on these cells, too.

Considering the restrictions on the research and the relatively (in research terms) small amount of time we've had on it, I'd say the fact that there is currently a treatment in clinical trials means that hES research has been quite successful.

And that's only focusing on actual cell therapy. It doesn't even begin to cover the insights we've gained into human development - and the myriad of ways that those insights can be used.

If we can derive a successful treatment for Muscular Dystrophy from non-embryonic stem cells, why do we place such an unsupported value on what can be done with the hES cells?

If we can treat one person's pain with aspirin, why should we investigate any other type of pain relief?

If we can cure one disease with penicillin, why should we research any other drugs?

Especially since is seems that the value is completely undemonstrated?

Only to those who don't want to see it.

Praise be to his Noodly Appendages...

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gD3EQPBvIsCX0M:http://www6.obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/entries/341980-pastafarian.gif

Only to those who don't want to see it.

I guess we'll just have to watch the news for the avalanche of new cures based on hES cells, right?

I guess we'll just have to watch the news for the avalanche of new cures based on hES cells, right?

Unless you have some other source of finding out about them, yeah ;)

Unless you have some other source of finding out about them, yeah ;)
Key word there was avalanche, Slick.

Key word there was avalanche, Slick.

Well, how do YOU find out about an Avalanche? To my knowledge, they dont have many in Georgia, lol...

I guess we'll just have to watch the news for the avalanche of new cures based on hES cells, right?

Yes, because discovering a cure will be nearly instant. If we havent cured Parkinsons and Cancer by next week, this was a failure. WHERE IS THE CHANGE?!?


Once again, you're content to lay blame without understanding reality.

My thoughts on this matter are more along the lines of wondering why people embrace this as though it actually changes much of anything. Research has been done with ordinary cells and very effectively. Without getting into the whole baby-killing thing, what demonstrated advantages does embryonic stem cell research have over any other stem cell research?

How can you not get into the baby killing if you want an answer to that question? Baby killing is the whole point! This is science, man! If Galileo never dropped that baby on Newton's head we wouldn't even have gravity!

How can you not get into the baby killing if you want an answer to that question? Baby killing is the whole point! This is science, man! If Galileo never dropped that baby on Newton's head we wouldn't even have gravity!

Hmmmm.....There's something out of place about this comment....I just cant quite figure out what it is.......

I guess we'll just have to watch the news for the avalanche of new cures based on hES cells, right?

Only if you have unrealistic expectations. Research takes time. It isn't instantaneous. But, now that Geron is in the door, I do expect that we'll start hearing about more FDA trials involving hES cells.

Also, many of the treatments that come out of hESC research won't be cell therapies at all, so you probably won't hear about them. For instance, when we better understand FAS or have a better idea what anesthetics to use when a pregant woman must undergo surgery, you won't hear about that as a "stem cell therapy" even if hESC research led to those discoveries.

Why are you listening to Fox News?

For laughs?

Only if you have unrealistic expectations. Research takes time. It isn't instantaneous. But, now that Geron is in the door, I do expect that we'll start hearing about more FDA trials involving hES cells.

Also, many of the treatments that come out of hESC research won't be cell therapies at all, so you probably won't hear about them. For instance, when we better understand FAS or have a better idea what anesthetics to use when a pregant woman must undergo surgery, you won't hear about that as a "stem cell therapy" even if hESC research led to those discoveries.
This is a good approach. After all the hype, lower expectations so that you can't fail to produce some sort of results that will make it all worthwhile.

As an aside, it seems this is the official policy of the Democratic party. Convince anyone who'll listen that any incremental improvment, no matter how small, represents a tremendous success.

This is a good approach. After all the hype, lower expectations so that you can't fail to produce some sort of results that will make it all worthwhile.

As an aside, it seems this is the official policy of the Democratic party. Convince anyone who'll listen that any incremental improvment, no matter how small, represents a tremendous success.

As opposed to what Bush did for eight years, namely destroying your country thoroughly and THEN claiming success?

I'll take it.

Mind you, if ONE person's life is saved because of this research it'll be worth the non-entities that embryos are.

This is a good approach. After all the hype, lower expectations so that you can't fail to produce some sort of results that will make it all worthwhile.

As an aside, it seems this is the official policy of the Democratic party. Convince anyone who'll listen that any incremental improvment, no matter how small, represents a tremendous success.

How many diseases would you need cured for it to be a success? 1? 10? 62? All of them? I have the scientists on the phone and they kind of need an answer asap.

How many diseases would you need cured for it to be a success? 1? 10? 62? All of them? I have the scientists on the phone and they kind of need an answer asap.

Tell Jim I said hi.

Tell Jim I said hi.

Jim the Scientific Baby Killer wants to know how the kids are doing and that his grill is raring to blaze your family some pork chops the next time you get the itch to take a swim in the above-ground.


Here is a nice and serious little link:http://www.jdrf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=79F406D6-C943-4435-B9D3095AF7FAE620

This is a good approach. After all the hype, lower expectations so that you can't fail to produce some sort of results that will make it all worthwhile.

Hype is always a problem. It almost shut down research into tissue engineering (with quite a few promising start-up companies going under), which is now showing very promising results.

And it isn't a matter of lowering expectations. It's more a matter of bringing them into a reasonable time frame. Like it or not, research takes time - a lot of it. In medical research, we talk about things on the time scale of 5 years at best, and we're often talking a decade or more down the road.

Unfortunately, neither the media nor laypeople in general seem to understand this. So when someone says that we might eventually cure Parkinson's, the next thing you hear is idiots screaming, "Tomorrow! You'll do it tomorrow or it's all a failure!!!!"

Then answer them! My post is an on-topic joke. What the hell do I have to do with someone else's off-topic remark in other thread? :p

Yeah I know, I thought this was a different thread and I had read it in some other threads this joke. Apologies.

Yeah I know, I thought this was a different thread and I had read it in some other threads this joke. Apologies.

You are forgiven, mah brutha.

Praise be to his Noodly Appendages...

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gD3EQPBvIsCX0M:http://www6.obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/entries/341980-pastafarian.gif

I'm starting to have some curiosities about the FSM's Evil Twin, Phothulhu.

As opposed to what Bush did for eight years, namely destroying your country thoroughly and THEN claiming success?

I'll take it.

Mind you, if ONE person's life is saved because of this research it'll be worth the non-entities that embryos are.
First, this isn't about Bush, no matter how much you would like to make it so... Second, is a single person's life worth the millions or billions that is being coerced from taxpayers and put into embryonic stem cell research? No, of course not. That's a silly bit of hyperbole that looks and sounds good, but pales in the light of reality.

This is a good approach. After all the hype, lower expectations so that you can't fail to produce some sort of results that will make it all worthwhile.

As an aside, it seems this is the official policy of the Democratic party. Convince anyone who'll listen that any incremental improvment, no matter how small, represents a tremendous success.

It's always nice to hear about how worthless stem cell research is from people who don't stand to personally gain from it.

I'm sure that you'll put an equal amount of effort into researching every medical treatment you or your loved ones receive, to make sure that none of you ever benefit from anything that was developed using hES studies. You know, cause it's such a waste and you resent it so very much.

First, this isn't about Bush, no matter how much you would like to make it so... Second, is a single person's life worth the millions or billions that is being coerced from taxpayers and put into embryonic stem cell research? No, of course not. That's a silly bit of hyperbole that looks and sounds good, but pales in the light of reality.

Well, frankly, here's hoping someone close to you dies from a disease that stem cell research could have cured, but didn't, because you didn't want your tax dollars "coerced" from you.

It's always nice to hear about how worthless stem cell research is from people who don't stand to personally gain from it.

I'm sure that you'll put an equal amount of effort into researching every medical treatment you or your loved ones receive, to make sure that none of you ever benefit from anything that was developed using hES studies. You know, cause it's such a waste and you resent it so very much.
I don't see where you draw that conclusion. If federal funding were out of the picture, then I would pay for the treatment like anyone else. Since I am forced to contribute to the research, then I should be able to take advantage of it's results, like anyone else.

First, this isn't about Bush, no matter how much you would like to make it so... Second, is a single person's life worth the millions or billions that is being coerced from taxpayers and put into embryonic stem cell research? No, of course not.

Not only is it more then a single person, but Id also argue that yes, a persons life is worth more then youre money.

Not only is it more then a single person, but Id also argue that yes, a persons life is worth more then youre money.
Huh? Try a couple re-reads and a re-write and see if you can stick to the point this time.

I'm starting to have some curiosities about the FSM's Evil Twin, Phothulhu.

I'd eat his evil twin. :cool:

Huh? Try a couple re-reads and a re-write and see if you can stick to the point this time.

:rolleyes:

"Not only is it more then a single person who will be saved, but I'd also argue that, yes, a person's life is worth more then your money."

NOW will you answer his point? Och!

It's always nice to hear about how worthless stem cell research is from people who don't stand to personally gain from it.

Not to mention those who don't have any background knowledge in it.

"It's worthless! This must be so because [insert multiple right wing talking points that are easily refuted by anyone who understands the science here]!"

I'm actually a big fan of the new attachment to iPS cells. Right-wingers will go on and on and on about the supposed cancer risk from hES cells (which has mostly been drawn from a misconception about the research - researchers intentionally induce teratomas in mice with the cells in order to demonstrate their differentiation potential) and then act like iPS cells, which would have a much greater cancer risk if used therapeutically, are a gift from God.

:rolleyes:

"Not only is it more then a single person who will be saved, but I'd also argue that, yes, a person's life is worth more then your money."

NOW will you answer his point? Och!
Are you having comprehension problems, too? The statement that I responded to was yours that equated saving single life to all the sacrificed embryos. If you recall I said that a single life wasn't worth the money coerced from taxpayers.

I'm arguing about the inaccuracy of hyperbole. If you want to change the argument, that's up to you, but don't expect me to willingly follow along.