NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello all,
With all this recent furrore over Gordon Brown and the possiblity of his calling a snap election this year, over his ensueing unpopularity, I thought it might be interesting to stage a mock election here on Nationstates. I have tried to include all the mainstream UK political parties as possible. Here is the link:

http://snappoll.com/poll/317072.php

Also, if you are not from the UK, please do not be exlcuded from this poll, and please also take a vote if possible. Though if you are not too clued into all the major parties and their principles, then just take a quick butchers at this handy and conveiniantly placed wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_political_parties#Major_political_parties_in_the _House_of_Commons

The votes will be collated and the new government chosen on April 8th 2009!

The poll is hosted on an independant site, but all votes are held in strictest confidence.
Enjoy your vote!
Make your voice heard!

wasn't the mock election last year?

also I vote labour :(

Sure, I can mock the UKian election.

The UKian election wishes it was the US election. The US election is taller, has better hair, and dresses much better than the UKian election.


How's that? :p

Unfortunatley all the poll is liable to do is give an overal level of support (on Nationstates as well!) - this does not translate well into seats due to the first-past the post system (as the Lib Dems always find).

wasn't the mock election last year?

also I vote labour :(

I'm embarressed for you.

I voted UKIP anyway.

Whoa that was a lot of replies ina very short space of time.
btw, this is a kind of mock - mock election. Still rocks though and still is valid.

I'm not saying I have but you can vote again and again

*is tempted to vote BNP a million times*

Unfortunatley all the poll is liable to do is give an overal level of support (on Nationstates as well!) - this does not translate well into seats due to the first-past the post system (as the Lib Dems always find).

but it does give you a good idea of what NS thinks *points at all the students voting lib-dem*

I'm embarressed for you.

I can't vote Green their stupid stupid people who's last election position was to halt all transport development >.<

may aswell maintain status quo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLc8cZdhLI)

BNP all the way. Bloody darkies tainting the beautiful white of the English flag.

BNP all the way. Bloody darkies tainting the beautiful white of the English flag.

God damn communist whats with all that red in dead center :mad:

It's a toss-up between the Greens and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

God damn communist whats with all that red in dead center :mad:Yeah, I know. That'll be one of the first things to be changed.

I'm not saying I have but you can vote again and again

*is tempted to vote BNP a million times*



but it does give you a good idea of what NS thinks *points at all the students voting lib-dem*



I can't vote Green their stupid stupid people who's last election position was to halt all transport development >.<

may aswell maintain status quo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLc8cZdhLI)


HEY! The Blessed Chris voted for UKIP!

I am the typical student...

I hate my potential choices

I fear electoral fraud...

I'm a sandal wearer.

It's a toss-up between the Greens and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

lets try to keep it serious now

Yeah, I know. That'll be one of the first things to be changed.

what we need is some gold stars to show the true wealth of the English nation set upon deep blue to show our mastery of the sea (http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u170/cjmcguinness/PDN%20Drawings/Flag%20Tutorial/EU_Flag.png?t=1236623327)

I am the typical student...

its okay one day you will stop hating your parents and vote a proper party

I fear electoral fraud...

well you can hardly blame royal mail on this one *throws post bag on the fire*

Eh... I Don't care who wins as long as they don't
A) Fuck up my chances of a good future
B) Relocate me. If I am to leave england its cos I want to not cos someone tells me to

lets try to keep it serious now
Hmmm...

For the first time, I'm considering not voting in the next general election. I'll (most probably) be voting in a safe Labour seat, where the only party even remotely capable of taking over is the Tories. Plus I'm not sure how I feel about the parliamentary Greens.

And I'd never vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, so what's the point?

A) Fuck up my chances of a good future

so none of the above?

And I'd never vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, so what's the point?

what if you lived in an area of Tories?

*Mocks the election*

I'd vote for the Let's Have Another Party party :)

what if you lived in an area of Tories?
Much the same, I imagine.

As I said, I'm not going to vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, so unless the Greens where in with a chance of winning, I'd seriously think about about not voting.

so none of the above?


Indeed, I shall start my own party, the "Not fucking up party" VOTE NO FUCKUP xD

Sure, I can mock the UKian election.

The UKian election wishes it was the US election. The US election is taller, has better hair, and dresses much better than the UKian election.


How's that? :p

Ukian elections smell like butt.

I'm embarressed for you.
I voted UKIP anyway.

I'm embarassed for those who vote the local equivalent of Lega Nord (which includes a lot of my countrymen).:rolleyes:

I won't vote *for* anyone. I'll merely vote for whoever has the best chance of defeating the Tory candidate. I find their pretence of claiming to have changed from utter bastards to good liberals extremely unconvincing.

Was a toss up between UKIP and Tories.

So I spoiled my ballet paper.

As I said, I'm not going to vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, so unless the Greens where in with a chance of winning, I'd seriously think about about not voting.

reminds me of that south park episode when the moral of the story is your always going to be voting for either a giant douche or a turd sandwich

Indeed, I shall start my own party, the "Not fucking up party" VOTE NO FUCKUP xD

now theres an election promise I can get behind!

*watches as government drafts me into medical school*

I'm embarassed for those who vote the local equivalent of Lega Nord (which includes a lot of my countrymen).:rolleyes:

don't you just vote for whoever is the most left :tongue:

I voted LibDem, and I haven't been any sort of student for a decade.

I don't even have a beard or big woolly jumper.

I am wearing sandals right now, though, and I've occasionally been tempted in the past to try and knit my own muesli as a fundraiser in support of aboriginal land rights for gay whales.

Conservatives win, country gets fucked for 10 years. Coming to a 2010 near you!

reminds me of that south park episode when the moral of the story is your always going to be voting for either a giant douche or a turd sandwich
Quite.


Conservatives win, country gets fucked for 10 years. Coming to a 2010 near you!
I, for one, am constructing my own colliery in a giant flamebait to Cameron.

don't you just vote for whoever is the most left :tongue:

I do (at least it's not Bossi, yeuch).

I vote for what's left on the left! ;)

I do (at least it's not Bossi, yeuch).

I vote for what's left on the left! ;)

haven't you got enough to be embarrassed about looking at your own political field then :tongue:

Conservatives win, country gets fucked for 10 years. Coming to a 2010 near you!

To be honest, they're probably slightly better than labour. Although still shit. Liberal democrats? LOL. BNP? Scum. UKIP? Can fuck themselves. Green? Fail. All of our parties are shit.

As there is no option for "Create a cult of personality by becoming the lead producer of soft-soled shoes in the country, then stage a soft-shoe based uprising and claim my rightful place as the Emperor of the Soft-Sole-Shoed Kingdom of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales", nor is there any half decent party at all in the UK, I'm going for the MRLP as a mock protest vote.
Edit: Chris' Amiagty, the Lib Dems are winning. What happened here?

SNIP

crushes your revolutions toes under the fascist heel of the walking boot (for SFW porn look at wikis boot pages)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/137_3761.jpg)
*is from the land of shoes and knows that wedge boots are going to see a massive surge soon*

crushes your revolutions toes under the fascist heel of the walking boot (for SFW porn look at wikis boot pages)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/137_3761.jpg)
*is from the land of shoes and knows that wedge boots are going to see a massive surge soon*

*counters with an armored battallion of steel-toed jackboots*
:D I've planned this all out.

Green? Fail.
Why, more so than any other party?

*counters with an armored battallion of steel-toed jackboots*
:D I've planned this all out.

*scuffs the jackboots*

Why, more so than any other party?

they are fucking nuts

To be honest, they're probably slightly better than labour.
Err no. The Old Guard of the party is still very much present.
Why, more so than any other party?
Anti-Europe.

they are fucking nuts
In what sense?

Anti-Europe.
They're not so much 'anti-Europe' as 'anti-current set up of the EU'.

From their, obviously non-spellchecked, site (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies/international.html):

"The European Union needs to be reformed. The European Constitution was a missed opportunity which had the potential to define the values, objetives, and decision making procedures of the Union, and set out the rights and freedoms of the citizens.

We believe the EU should be transparent and accountable. It should repesct the ability of people to make decisions abour their own communities. We believe in a Europe that is culturally, ethnically and economically diverse, where rights are protected for all and discrimination, poverty and inequality are consigned to history.

Europe is strongly placed to enforce climate agreements and persuade other nations to implement them. We call for the EU to adopt a policy of contraction and convergence; to grudually reduce the planet's Co2 emissions and ensure entitlement to emit is proportional to population, not affluence."

(Though I am turning round more to the non-parliamentarian Greens' way of thinking.)

Lib Dems pwn all. w00t! lol jk

Liberal Democrats leading? Yay! Viva Nick Clegg!

"We call for the EU to adopt a policy of contraction and convergence; to grudually reduce the planet's Co2 emissions and ensure entitlement to emit is proportional to population, not affluence."
Bloody communists.
Liberal Democrats leading? Yay! Viva Nick Clegg!
HAH!

Not likely. Also Nick Clegg is a spineless wanker.

In what sense?

abolishing fucking zoos? (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies/environment-animals.html)

they also think the British army could do with a budget cut >.<

they also think the British army could do with a budget cut >.<
Aye, that and they reckon the world can be fixed by the UK trying to support the UN more.

"Yeah shame the UNSC has 4 other members with veto power and their own agendas"

*edits*

Yeah after reading through their stupid policies I actually hate them more than I used to.

"Food swapping makes no sense"
"Yes it does, it gives us tasty food so fuck off"

"We need fair trade not free trade"
"How is free trade not completely fair?"

AND SO ON AND SO ON.

Sure, I can mock the UKian election.

The UKian election wishes it was the US election. The US election is taller, has better hair, and dresses much better than the UKian election.


How's that? :p

The UK has a bigger wang. That is why they don't need to spend as much time and money conducting an election.

I voted LibDem, and I haven't been any sort of student for a decade.

I don't even have a beard or big woolly jumper.

I am wearing sandals right now, though, and I've occasionally been tempted in the past to try and knit my own muesli as a fundraiser in support of aboriginal land rights for gay whales.

Yeah but you are still an academic, all it means is that you now get paid. :p

Conservatives win, country gets fucked for 10 years. Coming to a 2010 near you!

You mean the same way that Brown and co have been doing it?

Aye, that and they reckon the world can be fixed by the UK trying to support the UN more.
Hyperbole, at best.

They think that the UN could be strengthened if member-nations genuinely believed in it as an effective tool.

"Food swapping makes no sense"
"Yes it does, it gives us tasty food so fuck off"
A compelling argument...

"We need fair trade not free trade"
"How is free trade not completely fair?"
Because the entire Bretton-Woods system is set-up to advantage industrialised Western nations.

abolishing fucking zoos? (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies/environment-animals.html)
I don't see that as mad.

as long as its not the tories.... or the BNP... or UKIP....

i'll vote labour out of fear of any of that lot getting a chance. the results of this so far scare me though

edit:
To be honest, they're probably slightly better than labour. Although still shit. Liberal democrats? LOL. BNP? Scum. UKIP? Can fuck themselves. Green? Fail. All of our parties are shit.

David Cameron's amazing PR spin campaign for you. even my g/f doesn't think they're too bad any more, which is amazing considering how much of the old guard are still in the party, and how even lovely Mr. Cameron himself was an advisor to Norman Lamont FFS

HAH!

Not likely. Also Nick Clegg is a spineless wanker.

Lib Dems leading 35-19-14 (Lib Dem/Tory/Labour) as of this post. And Nick Clegg is a decent, honourable man who generally listens to his activists and actually pays some attention to what his Party Conference says.

So DOUBLE HAH! to you.

British National Party, for their immigration policy.

David Cameron's amazing PR spin campaign for you. even my g/f doesn't think they're too bad any more, which is amazing considering how much of the old guard are still in the party, and how even lovely Mr. Cameron himself was an advisor to Norman Lamont FFS

I do inherently distrust the conservatives though, which is why I would still be voting for labour. What I mean is that their (the conservatives) position seems slightly better, in some areas at least, for now. Basically it goes like this, I do not trust the conservatives authenticity and honesty, I do not trust the liberal democrats competency, same goes 10 fold for the green party. I simply dislike the BNP, and UKIP are just a bunch of old people who whine about inconsequential crap. The only thing I trust is labours continued mediocrity, but at least you know what you get.

You mean the same way that Brown and co have been doing it?
No, this is some anal penetration type fucking that Cameron is about to unleash.
Hyperbole, at best.

They think that the UN could be strengthened if member-nations genuinely believed in it as an effective tool.
"[The UN can be a useful tool to sort out baddies], The UN has been undermined for decades by powerful governments. Instead, Britian should be supportive of the UN in upholding international law and developing the capacity to respond effectively to global threats."

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies/peace-defence.html

Not entirely sure how Britain is going to do anything of the sort, seeing as UN results are non-binding in almost all cases and subject to veto by five countries when it comes to doing anything important.
A compelling argument...
What, you're up for eating leek and potato soup and drinking beer all day because that's what really grows here?

Bleuch.
Because the entire Bretton-Woods system is set-up to advantage industrialised Western nations.
Yes it is, maybe the rest of the world should suck less.
I don't see that as mad.
Zoos are ace.
Lib Dems leading 35-19-14 (Lib Dem/Tory/Labour) as of this post.
You're absolutely sure that those results are not actually Conservative/Labour/Lib Dem? Also where the hell are UKIP on that list, the backwards south-west votes for them en masse, and they did as well as the Lib Dems in 2004.

Source?
And Nick Clegg is a decent, honourable man who generally listens to his activists and actually pays some attention to what his Party Conference says.

So DOUBLE HAH! to you.
Yeah that's lovely but I've yet to see him do anything of any note other than say he wasn't religious and then almost instantly state that he didn't mind religion and please don't hate him.
British National Party, for their immigration policy.
Uhu... that's just very stupid.

"Ah the BNP wins so there's less Pakis WOOO!"
"Yeah but what about the masses of trade we're off to lose with the EU?"
"Doesn't matter, at least there's less Muslims"
"Or perhaps the stripping of rights for everyone who isn't a white protestant male"
"I am one so I don't care too"

I honestly cannot wait for a second Cable Street so these neo-fascists can fuck off and die like the BUF did.

What, you're up for eating leek and potato soup and drinking beer all day because that's what really grows here?
I'd contend that more seasonal, home grown food is a good thing, and that it consists of much more than leeks, potatoes and beer.

Yes it is, maybe the rest of the world should suck less.
Maybe it would suck less if there were genuine equal opportunities, genuine fair trade.

Zoos are ace.
A lot of the conservation work zoos do is ace.

Enclosing animals in rather small spaces largely for the amusement of ourselves, not so much.[/QUOTE]

British National Party, for their immigration policy.
Yeah, because having a bunch of holocaust deniers, football hooligans and white supremacists is an acceptable trade-off for becoming an international pariah, rights abuses on a hitherto unknown scale and an even worse economy than we have now.

Still, keep the darkies out, right?

I'd contend that more seasonal, home grown food is a good thing, and that it consists of much more than leeks, potatoes and beer.
Leeks, potatoes and beer throughout the year and cheese on toast now and then it is. Steak and chips isn't exactly on the Green Party's "hurrah for this food" list after all.
Maybe it would suck less if there were genuine equal opportunities, genuine fair trade.
Not like they can't make something of themselves.
A lot of the conservation work zoos do is ace.
Also they amuse all the family.
Enclosing animals in rather small spaces largely for the amusement of ourselves, not so much.
Where else am I going to see elephants in real life, lord knows the Green Party wouldn't think highly of a flight to Kenya -_-

I do inherently distrust the conservatives though, which is why I would still be voting for labour. What I mean is that their (the conservatives) position seems slightly better, in some areas at least, for now. Basically it goes like this, I do not trust the conservatives authenticity and honesty, I do not trust the liberal democrats competency, same goes 10 fold for the green party. I simply dislike the BNP, and UKIP are just a bunch of old people who whine about inconsequential crap. The only thing I trust is labours continued mediocrity, but at least you know what you get.

fair enough... i guess i distrust the tories too much to think there's any real change, or reason to trust them.
that said i distrust labour as well... just, less.

I voted Lib Dem in this poll as that's what I voted in the last local election here (which is a fairly strong seat for them). However, in the next general election I'm not sure who I'll vote for; Labour have been pretty incompetent recently, but I'm not convinced the Lib Dems are actually ready to have a major role in the government.

I voted MRLP.

Unfortunatley all the poll is liable to do is give an overal level of support (on Nationstates as well!) - this does not translate well into seats due to the first-past the post system (as the Lib Dems always find).

FPTP = epic fail


If I were a UK citizen, I'd vote for the UKIP. I don't know their stances on most issues, but they want to get the UK out of the EU, and that's good enough for me.

FPTP = epic fail


If I were a UK citizen, I'd vote for the UKIP. I don't know their stances on most issues, but they want to get the UK out of the EU, and that's good enough for me.

Err... and reasons for this?

Err... and reasons for this?

The EU is an overly bloated, undemocratic, corrupt, sovereignty-destroying bureaucracy?

The EU is an overly bloated, undemocratic, corrupt, sovereignty-destroying bureaucracy?

This is different from the US? (not that I agree with all those descriptors)

The EU is an overly bloated, undemocratic, corrupt, sovereignty-destroying bureaucracy?
And this is different to the British government in what respect?

FPTP = epic fail
Yeah because proportional rep is awesome and doesn't cause very unstable governments whose parties have to sell out on basically every pledge they make to anyone to form a coalition.

"Awesome".
If I were a UK citizen, I'd vote for the UKIP. I don't know their stances on most issues
"SHOULD BE LIKE THE OLDEN DAYS BLOODY KIDS NOWADAYS AND THEIR STUPID HAIR AND RAUCOUS MUSIC"
but they want to get the UK out of the EU, and that's good enough for me.
Uhu... the EU is absolutely vital to European trade, so no.

i do find it hard to take people seriously when they value national sovereignity more than progress. i'm pretty sure the USA wouldn't be where it is today if all the States had stayed sovereign and indipendent.

will vote for the English Democrats

i do find it hard to take people seriously when they value national sovereignity more than progress. i'm pretty sure the USA wouldn't be where it is today if all the States had stayed sovereign and indipendent.

With all due respect, this is amongst the least intelligent or considered assertions I've read. "Progress" is a subjective entity; what you deem progesss others may not. "National sovereignty", however, is an objective statement of institutional and legislative fact.

All you've actually done is to articulate your own political opinions, not critique those of UKIP.

I think we should keep Labour, but just do the opposite of what they say.

haven't you got enough to be embarrassed about looking at your own political field then :tongue:

No, not enough. It's very little what's left on the left.

But I'm not going to die a Christian Democrat, wtf!

With all due respect, this is amongst the least intelligent or considered assertions I've read. "Progress" is a subjective entity; what you deem progesss others may not. "National sovereignty", however, is an objective statement of institutional and legislative fact.
But the point stands. Just because something is 'institutional and legislative fact', doesn't mean it should trump all other considerations.

Something which UKIP, and others, are want to do.

But the point stands. Just because something is 'institutional and legislative fact', doesn't mean it should trump all other considerations.

Something which UKIP, and others, are want to do.

The point stands only if PM actually intends to discuss the merits of his conception of "progress" against mine, as opposed to brandish it as something that, for reasons known only to himself, only the parties he likes can attain.

I am not suggesting that "national sovereignty" is of more value than "progress" on any level; rather that one is an empirical entity, and the other subjective.

I am not suggesting that "national sovereignty" is of more value than "progress" on any level; rather that one is an empirical entity, and the other subjective.
That's fair enough.

With all due respect, this is amongst the least intelligent or considered assertions I've read. "Progress" is a subjective entity; what you deem progesss others may not. "National sovereignty", however, is an objective statement of institutional and legislative fact.

All you've actually done is to articulate your own political opinions, not critique those of UKIP.

It's not entirely objective. There are theoretical and practical sides to it.

Since we can leave the EU then theoretically I would say we still have complete national and parliamentary sovereignty. We are only bound by the EU because we choose to be.

Some might claim that this situation we have given up practical sovereignty while retaining theoretical sovereignty etc.

Some people who claim they wouldn't let us leave, so that practically we couldn't escape being bound by the EU. A subjective view of the future determining whether or not we have national sovereignty.

It's not quite so clear cut.

My party, the Socialist Party, is not included in the poll. And I think that more and more people are realising that they were conned by Thatcher and her NewLab and LibDem clones. Why have you included the BNP, a thinly disguised fascist party, but not a single socialist party?
UKIP'S slogan was "Keep the £". What losers!
Power to the workers, not the -ankers!

My party, the Socialist Party, is not included in the poll. And I think that more and more people are realising that they were conned by Thatcher and her NewLab and LibDem clones. Why have you included the BNP, a thinly disguised fascist party, but not a single socialist party?
UKIP'S slogan was "Keep the £". What losers!
Power to the workers, not the -ankers!

I believe the phrase was actually used by the Tories in the 2001 general election. Not that you'd have known as much; I don't imagine an education is of great use down pit eh? If my darling Iron Lady had left any open that is.

It's not entirely objective. There are theoretical and practical sides to it.

Since we can leave the EU then theoretically I would say we still have complete national and parliamentary sovereignty. We are only bound by the EU because we choose to be.

Some might claim that this situation we have given up practical sovereignty while retaining theoretical sovereignty etc.

Some people who claim they wouldn't let us leave, so that practically we couldn't escape being bound by the EU. A subjective view of the future determining whether or not we have national sovereignty.

It's not quite so clear cut.

Where national sovereignty is concerned, I would argue that direct legislative power is a sine qua non. Whatever de jure powers we retain the immutable truth is that we do not have the power to accept or reject European legislation as we please, and hence do not operate direct national soveriegnty.

Where national sovereignty is concerned, I would argue that direct legislative power is a sine qua non.
This refutes your statement that national sovereignty is an "objective statement of institutional and legislative fact", though.

This refutes your statement that national sovereignty is an "objective statement of institutional and legislative fact", though.

Not in the slightest. Direct national soveriegnty is precisely what is meant when it's contracted form is used.

Not in the slightest. Direct national soveriegnty is precisely what is meant when it's contracted form is used.
Ahh, but direct national sovereignty and national sovereignty are two different things.

Your statement would hold for the former, but not, as witnessed by Forsakia, the latter. An argument can be made to say that non-direct national sovereignty is a perfectly valid form of sovereignty.

My party, the Socialist Party, is not included in the poll.
That's because the Socialist Party is about as popular as an AIDS sandwich.
And I think that more and more people are realising that they were conned by Thatcher and her NewLab and LibDem clones. Why have you included the BNP, a thinly disguised fascist party, but not a single socialist party?
Because the BNP is the fifth-largest party in England.
UKIP'S slogan was "Keep the £". What losers!
I'd keep the pound as well - ForEx is a pretty important part of the economy, and the more currencies we have to do it in the better. Don't want to be losing government revenue and the ability to control our own interest rates for the sake of going on holiday to Europe slightly more easily.
Power to the workers, not the -ankers!
The workers already have the power to vote who they want in control. Who they do want in control is a selection of mediocre but fairly non-dangerous parties who will keep things how we like them, but not quite perfect so we have something to not complain about too much and show how stoic we British are etc. etc.

What the workers don't want is a bunch of sloganeering champagne socialists whose opinions on economics aren't going to be remotely useful without the rest of the world also being controlled by Marxists.

That's because the Socialist Party is about as popular as an AIDS sandwich.

Because the BNP is the fifth-largest party in England.

I'd keep the pound as well - ForEx is a pretty important part of the economy, and the more currencies we have to do it in the better. Don't want to be losing government revenue and the ability to control our own interest rates for the sake of going on holiday to Europe slightly more easily.

The workers already have the power to vote who they want in control. Who they do want in control is a selection of mediocre but fairly non-dangerous parties who will keep things how we like them, but not quite perfect so we have something to not complain about too much and show how stoic we British are etc. etc.

What the workers don't want is a bunch of sloganeering champagne socialists whose opinions on economics aren't going to be remotely useful without the rest of the world also being controlled by Marxists.

see http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/7004
Marx was right, as even a banker admits. And I've never seen a member of my party drinking champagne. We mostly drink beer.
<counts euros>

see http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/7004
Marx was right, as even a banker admits.
A banker, eh?

Cripes, must be representative of the whole bunch. While you're at it, why not quote one worker on why the working class will rise up and crush their bourgeois oppressors, or some other similarly bullshit claim?
And I've never seen a member of my party drinking champagne. We mostly drink beer.
Yeah, that's students for you, eh?

You do know what "champagne socialist" means, aye?
<counts euros>
Uhu...

I'd keep the pound as well - ForEx is a pretty important part of the economy, and the more currencies we have to do it in the better. Don't want to be losing government revenue and the ability to control our own interest rates for the sake of going on holiday to Europe slightly more easily.

well, the single currency is supposed to benefit business more than it is consumers. it does benefit the latter, but the former benefit from cheaper, easier and quicker trade (the banks charge you a small fortune in this country if you want to pay someone in a different currency, for example). but, importantly, in this here recession, the Euro has been doing better than the pound, at least in part because a currency bloc like the Euro is a safer investment for speculators than a lone currency.

With all due respect, this is amongst the least intelligent or considered assertions I've read. "Progress" is a subjective entity; what you deem progesss others may not. "National sovereignty", however, is an objective statement of institutional and legislative fact.

All you've actually done is to articulate your own political opinions, not critique those of UKIP.

very well. i feel that retaining national sovereignity is a much less important consideration when weighed against what i consider to be progress. that is, economic growth, greater economic sustainability and resilience, political integration, and Europe becoming a more integrated world power. the UKIP, to me, stands opposed to the kind of progress i'm referencing due to their stance of not joining the single currency and withdrawal from the EU. based on my subjective definitions of progress, this is a critique of the UKIP because, as i said in my original post, their aim of putting national sovereignity over progress is flawed.

besides, i don't feel there is such a thing as real national sovereignity any more, with such global interdependence on trade, commerce, culture and politics. but that's another issue.