NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, I read through all this, and I fully admit I had trouble with it, but I picked out some things. Has anyone read this bill yet?

Linky~ (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text)

First of all, this bill applies to the following firearms:

‘(36) The term ‘qualifying firearm’--

‘(A) means--

‘(i) any handgun;

‘(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device;

‘(B) does not include any antique.’.

So, not rifles or shotguns, but anything else.

Next:

(a) In General- In order to be issued a firearm license under this title, an individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under subsection (b)) an application, which shall include--

(1) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;

(2) the name, address, and date and place of birth of the applicant;

(3) any other name that the applicant has ever used or by which the applicant has ever been known;

(4) a clear thumb print of the applicant, which shall be made when, and in the presence of the entity to whom, the application is submitted;

(5) with respect to each category of person prohibited by Federal law, or by the law of the State of residence of the applicant, from obtaining a firearm, a statement that the individual is not a person prohibited from obtaining a firearm;

(6) a certification by the applicant that the applicant will keep any firearm owned by the applicant safely stored and out of the possession of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;

(7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding--

(A) the safe storage of firearms, particularly in the vicinity of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;

(B) the safe handling of firearms;

(C) the use of firearms in the home and the risks associated with such use;

(D) the legal responsibilities of firearms owners, including Federal, State, and local laws relating to requirements for the possession and storage of firearms, and relating to reporting requirements with respect to firearms; and

(E) any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;

(8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;

(9) the date on which the application was submitted;

(10) the signature of the applicant.

So, you have to provide your whole life, and take a test in order to own a gun (even one you already own). Next:

(c) Fees-

1
(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall charge and collect from each applicant for a license under this title a fee in an amount determined in accordance with paragraph (2).

(2) FEE AMOUNT- The amount of the fee collected under this subsection shall be not less than the amount determined by the Attorney General to be necessary to ensure that the total amount of all fees collected under this subsection during a fiscal year is sufficient to cover the costs of carrying out this title during that fiscal year, except that such amount shall not exceed $25.

Up to $25 per year fee for maintaining all this data about you. Which, given a couple years, would be exactly $25 per year.

‘(bb) Unauthorized Sale or Transfer of a Qualifying Firearm- It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a qualifying firearm to, or for, any person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, or to receive a qualifying firearm from a person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, unless, at the time and place of the transfer or receipt--

‘(1) the transferee presents to a licensed dealer a valid firearm license issued to the transferee--

‘(A) under title I of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009; or

‘(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 established by the State in which the transfer or receipt occurs;

‘(2) the licensed dealer contacts the Attorney General or the head of the State agency that administers the certified system described in paragraph (1)(B), as applicable, and receives notice that the transferee has been issued a firearm license described in paragraph (1) and that the license remains valid;

‘(3) the licensed dealer records on a document (which, in the case of a sale, shall be the sales receipt) a tracking authorization number provided by the Attorney General or the head of the State agency, as applicable, as evidence that the licensed dealer has verified the validity of the license.’.

No such thing as a private gun sale anymore if this bill were to go through. You would always have to go through dealers. There will be significant cost pursuant to that.

‘(ff) Failure To Provide Notice of Change of Address- It shall be unlawful for any individual to whom a firearm license has been issued under title I of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 to fail to report to the Attorney General a change in the address of that individual within 60 days of that change of address.’.

If you move, remember to update your firearm license. Don't forget that, or you can wind up in jail.

In order to ascertain compliance with this Act, the amendments made by this Act, and the regulations and orders issued under this Act, the Attorney General may, during regular business hours, enter any place in which firearms or firearm products are manufactured, stored, or held, for distribution in commerce, and inspect those areas where the products are so manufactured, stored, or held.

This seems to only apply to manufacturers and distributors, the way it's worded. If I'm wrong on that, please let me know so I can be more outraged. However, it still seems like it would run afoul of unreasonable search and seizure.


Ok, so here's what I picked out. Does anyone else find a problem with this bill? Does anyone have any problem with my comment on what I found in the bill? Hit me. I'm ready.

(By the way, this bill is likely to die in committee, at least I hope so, but I thought NSG should be aware.)

Fuck this bill. Hope sensible democrats vote against this or that failing the republicans Filibuster this to death.

Well, it does take alot to decide if youre sane, and rational enough to own a gun...

The only real problem I have with it is the Fee, thats bullshit, dont we already pay taxes for this shit?

Doesnt matter anyway however, cause our Firearms are unregistered....and if they look for them, then we dont have any, and fully support the authorities in this matter, lol...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/blairholt.asp

Says it all, really.

It won't go far. *looks to see who authored this turd*

Bobby Rush. Hmm. Not a single co-sponsor. Oh yeah, this bill is going far. :tongue:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/blairholt.asp

Says it all, really.

Ah thank you. *puts the gun away*

It won't go far. *looks to see who authored this turd*

Bobby Rush. Hmm. Not a single co-sponsor. Oh yeah, this bill is going far. :tongue:

Ah. Good. I'm glad... most democrats are reasonable people. Relatively.

There are some shotguns and rifles that would be affected by this legislation (Saiga 12 gauge, AR15, Mini 14, etc).

As to my opinion on this legislation, it's nothing more than feel good legislation that will cost taxpayers time and money, without showing results.

Section 10 of the Constitution states that one cannot pass an ex post facto law, meaning a law that is applied retroactively. I would think that anyone who already owns guns legally shouldn't be subject to this law.

Of course, I think the bill is stupid in and of itself and hope it doesn't even get out of committee.

Given how liberal the House and Senate are, though, I can see it passing. And I can see the Supreme Court, once again, deciding to judge the Constitution and the law based on expediency and not, as was the original intent, judging the laws by the Constitution.

so all agreed bad legislation.

so all agreed bad legislation.

I get nervous whenever I see legislation like this on the floor. I sometimes wonder if they keep bringing around a 10000% ridiculous piece so they can get a 100% ridiculous piece past us later.

So, I put it out here for NSG to talk about, to make sure I wasn't overreacting to what I was reading. Turns out, NSG agrees that this is ridiculous. Fortunately, it's also unlikely to pass.

*wipes his brow*

I get nervous whenever I see legislation like this on the floor. I sometimes wonder if they keep bringing around a 10000% ridiculous piece so they can get a 100% ridiculous piece past us later.

So, I put it out here for NSG to talk about, to make sure I wasn't overreacting to what I was reading. Turns out, NSG agrees that this is ridiculous. Fortunately, it's also unlikely to pass.

*wipes his brow*

this seems about on the order of the assault weapons ban.

It'll never make it out alive.

this seems about on the order of the assault weapons ban.

Maybe this is a prelude to a new AWB (gauging support for new gun control laws).

Seriously, considering the economy, war, and perceived dicking of the Limeys, why are we even bothering with Gun Control legislation?

Seems a bit unimportant in comparison....

EDIT:Much as it pains me to admit, this seems to be becoming a trend with the current administration/party :(

Maybe this is a prelude to a new AWB (gauging support for new gun control laws).

that's true.

Seriously, considering the economy, war, and perceived dicking of the Limeys, why are we even bothering with Gun Control legislation?

Seems a bit unimportant in comparison....

EDIT:Much as it pains me to admit, this seems to be becoming a trend with the current administration/party :(
What did you expect? Nothing ever changes. Every election there has been some asswipe promising change and shiny things to the electorate and nothing ever gets delivered except what the special interests and their lobbyist minions push. In spite of everything you have been told, everything you have been led to believe, there is no such thing as a paragon of virtue. Everyone is in it for themselves and their petty parochialisms.

Seriously badly considered legislation, given it's stated intent. What is the point of tracking legal firearms when the target is illegal ones?

Seriously badly considered legislation, given it's stated intent. What is the point of tracking legal firearms when the target is illegal ones?

there are elements in the US that want to make the country a fire arms free zone.

Seriously, considering the economy, war, and perceived dicking of the Limeys, why are we even bothering with Gun Control legislation?

Seems a bit unimportant in comparison....

EDIT:Much as it pains me to admit, this seems to be becoming a trend with the current administration/party :(
For the same reason that the last government was happy to consider flag burning amendments while fighting two expensive and (then) hopeless wars. Congressmen aren't banned from introducing legislation that isn't on a topic that's been in the headlines for the last month.

Whether Congress passes the law is indeed another question.

For the same reason that the last government was happy to consider flag burning amendments while fighting two expensive and (then) hopeless wars. Congressmen aren't banned from introducing legislation that isn't on a topic that's been in the headlines for the last month.

Whether Congress passes the law is indeed another question.

i hope they dont. if am reading that correct. 25 a gun and i would owe 300 a year on my hand guns alone.

there are elements in the US that want to make the country a fire arms free zone.

Oh, I know that. It's why I give money to the NRA...

Armas de fuego... ay no.:eek2: *slides away*

i hope they dont. if am reading that correct. 25 a gun and i would owe 300 a year on my hand guns alone.

I interpretted it as $25 for the maintenance of your record, whether you own one gun or one hundred. I may be wrong, but I certainly like my interpretation better than yours. :)

I'm fine for gun liscensing. Fewer criminals/nutjobs out there with guns.

But fuck, this is practically taking the Second Amendment, cutting it in half, then handing it back to us, and telling us to act like nothing's changed.

I interpretted it as $25 for the maintenance of your record, whether you own one gun or one hundred. I may be wrong, but I certainly like my interpretation better than yours. :)
What are you, some kind of commie? How is the government supposed to make money if you don't have to pony up the fee together with the paperwork every time you buy a gun? Geez, duh, Sdaer.

What are you, some kind of commie? How is the government supposed to make money if you don't have to pony up the fee together with the paperwork every time you buy a gun? Geez, duh, Sdaer.

I sense the sarcasm here, but I would not for a moment put it past the government to make it a $25 fee per gun.

I sense the sarcasm here, but I would not for a moment put it past the government to make it a $25 fee per gun.
The sarcasm was just in the calling you a commie part. I'm completely serious about them charging $25 per gun. I don't know that they would, but it's how governments do everything else.

Wait, isn't there already "a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes", or is it just a background check?

(Or is it different from state to state?)

I'm fine for gun liscensing. Fewer criminals/nutjobs out there with guns.

*laughs* Yea, because we all know criminals and nutjobs are the one that obey the laws....No, the guns with their serial numbers filed off often belong to those obeying the laws....*laughs*

Ahh I love it when people are naive.

Wait, isn't there already "a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes", or is it just a background check?

(Or is it different from state to state?)
I think it varies state by state, but don't quote me on that.
*laughs* Yea, because we all know criminals and nutjobs are the one that obey the laws....No, the guns with their serial numbers filed off often belong to those obeying the laws....*laughs*

Ahh I love it when people are naive.

Ahh I love it when people miss the point.

i hope they dont. if am reading that correct. 25 a gun and i would owe 300 a year on my hand guns alone.
Newer Burmecia's lesson for today: don't go to America.;)

Yea, because we all know criminals and nutjobs are the one that obey the laws....No, the guns with their serial numbers filed off often belong to those obeying the laws...
There would be undoubtedly some crimes or madness-induced shootings prevented by heavy regulation.

Don't be so smarmy.

I think it varies state by state, but don't quote me on that.
K.

(oops)

K.

(oops)

You bastard! >_<

There would be undoubtedly some crimes or madness-induced shootings prevented by heavy regulation.

Don't be so smarmy.

There is, and always will be a black market for illegal guns. These guns won't have a record, and the serial numbers will most likely be filed off. All this bill does (if it passes) is make it harder for legal gun owners to own guns. It will not have any effect on those who buy their guns on the black market.

But hey, don't listen to me, go ahead and pretend that this bill will actually do something for the crimes with weapon rate.

There is, and always will be a black market for illegal guns. These guns won't have a record, and the serial numbers will most likely be filed off. All this bill does (if it passes) is make it harder for legal gun owners to own guns. It will not have any effect on those who buy their guns on the black market.

But hey, don't listen to me, go ahead and pretend that this bill will actually do something for the crimes with weapon rate.

Ya, in fact, since there is no possible way better weapons tracking could alleviate gun-related crime (regardless of what those fucking liars in other countries say), we should actually give a gun to every single person at birth. Kid pops outta its mom, doctor spanks it, and then shoves a nice old revolved in its hand. Guns for everyone!

There is, and always will be a black market for illegal guns.
That is not in dispute.

Unless you're contending that every gun crime is committed with an unlicensed gun, you don't have much of a point.

That is not in dispute.

Unless you're contending that every gun crime is committed with an unlicensed gun, you don't have much of a point.

More likely than not, they are, or they're committed with stolen guns.

So, how does this measure punish the criminals while respecting law abiding gun owners again?

More likely than not, they are, or they're committed with stolen guns.
Again, not in dispute.

But the statement which you responded to, "I'm fine for gun liscensing. Fewer criminals/nutjobs out there with guns", is a valid one.

There's no need to go on a 'if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns' rant. No-one is denying this; in fact, it's a tautology.

Section 10 of the Constitution states that one cannot pass an ex post facto law, meaning a law that is applied retroactively. I would think that anyone who already owns guns legally shouldn't be subject to this law.


Hasn't stopped (http://www.letswrap.com/legal/firearms.htm#misdem) them before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Walsh_Child_Protection_and_Safety_Act#Legal_applications).

Again, not in dispute.

But the statement which you responded to, "I'm fine for gun liscensing. Fewer criminals/nutjobs out there with guns", is a valid one.

There's no need to go on a 'if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns' rant. No-one is denying this; in fact, it's a tautology.

So, why the support of this bill then? I honestly don't see anything good coming out of this bill except more paperwork for me (since I own a rifle and a handgun) and more money out of my pocket.

So, why the support of this bill then?
Who said anything about supporting the bill?