NationStates Jolt Archive

well my friend is having issues with the local child protective services.
Basically she took her baby to a bar and someone called the police saying there is an abandoned baby at the bar.

now before you get judgmental realize she used to work at the bar and the bar was the place that threw her a baby shower. So she was going to the bar not to drink but show off her daughter.

Ive been called to a group meeting to talk to CPS on her behalf.

what best can i say to make them realize that they are over reacting.

Or is CPS more right in this case?

It's illegal to take babies in to bars right?

depends

Don't get angry is the best advice, open along the lines of...

"While I understand and appreciate the CPS in helping protect children and ensuring parents are not irresponsible, I hope it's accepted that this is merely a case of a proud mother, a good friend, a good mother, showing her child to former colleagues and friends".

The point is to get the case over and done with quickly, not score political points.

Too often people forget this in disputes, that the aim is resolution not escalation.

It's illegal to take babies in to bars right?

No. just the police had to call CPS because a complaint was filed.

that bar in particular is full of teenagers(they offer pool and video games). I always follow the check ID before taking a girl home for the night rule there.

well my friend is having issues with the local child protective services.

She's fucked.

Ive been called to a group meeting to talk to CPS on her behalf.

what best can i say to make them realize that they are over reacting.
You know that hypnogun from Family Guy? Bring one along.

Tell them why she took the baby in the bar. If they still want to take the kid away that's when you start verbally abusing them and go whack the 'do-gooder' in the mouth.

Bloody do-gooders don't get me started on a similar incident, not that the kid was taken into a bar the kid was screaming because his parents weren't going to give him chocolate in the evening.

Don't get angry is the best advice, open along the lines of...

"While I understand and appreciate the CPS in helping protect children and ensuring parents are not irresponsible, I hope it's accepted that this is merely a case of a proud mother, a good friend, a good mother, showing her child to former colleagues and friends".

The point is to get the case over and done with quickly, not score political points.

Too often people forget this in disputes, that the aim is resolution not escalation.

that's really hard for me to do. normally i just yell at bureaucrats until they call the police and I get a another public intox.

It's illegal to take babies in to bars right?

It's not illegal, but most bars frown upon people bringing their own food.

No. just the police had to call CPS because a complaint was filed.

that bar in particular is full of teenagers(they offer pool and video games). I always follow the check ID before taking a girl home for the night rule there.
Do you live in Connecticut?

Do you live in Connecticut?

why do you Ask???

that's really hard for me to do. normally i just yell at bureaucrats until they call the police and I get a another public intox.

Do it for your friend then,

Do it for your friend then,

damn that means no alcohol on the next two days i am so going to get the shakes.

It's not illegal, but most bars frown upon people bringing their own food.

:eek:

:p

why do you Ask???

curiosity.

curiosity.

no Texas. what looking for a palce to hit on teenage girls.

http://m.kare11.com/news.jsp?key=99738

http://m.kare11.com/news.jsp?key=99738

oh lol. my friend didn't do that. Though she did get arrested. because she flipped out when some cop told her they were going to take her baby.

took four cops to restrain her.

I suppose they have to take complaints seriously, but their's a limit. The thought of someone losing their child, even temporarily, over something so minor, is sickening.

I hope and pray this gets resolved quickly and fairly. If not, I would probably sue them to high heaven and try to get my account in as many media outlets as possible. But the combative approach may be too hard for some people for financial or other practical reasons.

My only advice is pretty straightforward: if your friend doesn't have a lawyer, she should get one now. Especially if she got arrested. Other than that I'll refrain from making suggestions, since I know next to nothing about this incident or the relevant laws.

Tell the truth, and realize that CPS doesn't do shit in the vast majority of cases. I've made reports on students who were beaten, abused physically, emotionally and verbally, neglected, students who were suicidal and actively self-harming, and CPS did nothing except continue monthly visits to one house, where they never, of course, found anything bad enough to take custody. Hopefully, that kid's run away again and been successful this time.

I suppose they have to take complaints seriously, but their's a limit. The thought of someone losing their child, even temporarily, over something so minor, is sickening.

I hope and pray this gets resolved quickly and fairly. If not, I would probably sue them to high heaven and try to get my account in as many media outlets as possible. But the combative approach may be too hard for some people for financial or other practical reasons.

My only advice is pretty straightforward: if your friend doesn't have a lawyer, she should get one now. Especially if she got arrested. Other than that I'll refrain from making suggestions, since I know next to nothing about this incident or the relevant laws.

She doesn't have the money for a lawyer.

Hey NEO ART COME DOWN AND DO A PRO BONUM.

She doesn't have the money for a lawyer.

Hey NEO ART COME DOWN AND DO A PRO BONUM.

Isn't legal representation a right wherever she's from?

She doesn't have the money for a lawyer.


Is that the excuse she'll use after the child is taken away, too?

Isn't legal representation a right wherever she's from?

yeah... what sort of lawyer do you think state provided gets you(a highly over worked one, that doesn't have the specialization).
Also not certain how a CPS custody hearing goes and weather your entitled to a lawyer.

Is that the excuse she'll use after the child is taken away, too?

well she might have the money if she didn't have to cover bail to get out of jail. Also she had to buy a new car because her old VW bug didn't have seat belts and couldn't fit a child seat.
what do you want her to do the Child is less then a month old and most places want the child to be at least 6 months old before they will take the child under care.

well she might have the money if she didn't have to cover bail to get out of jail.


Why was she in jail?

For this same incident? That's nonsensical - she could have afforded to deal with the ramifications, IF the ramifications hadn't existed - well, YEAH!


Also she had to buy a new car because her old VW bug didn't have seat belts and couldn't fit a child seat.


That's bullshit. She could have had the car fitted with belts, etc.

Does Texas law require retroactivity on those old cars, or can they be grandfathered?

Regardless - pregnancy takes a while. She didn't suddenly find out a week ago that her car didn't have seatbelts.

You might also want to tell her 'welcome to real life'. People have to pay for stuff here, and the bills don't nicely arrange themselves into easy-to-pay order.


what do you want her to do


What do I? Where did I get involved? Surely thius is betwen her and CPS.

I've just noticed that people often complain about what they can't do, can't afford to do, etc... and then, afterwards, complain that everything went shit-shaped, and it turns out they COULD have done something.


...the Child is less then a month old and most places want the child to be at least 6 months old before they will take the child under care.

Which might be relevant if she was somehow FORCED to go into this bar.

well my friend is having issues with the local child protective services.
Basically she took her baby to a bar and someone called the police saying there is an abandoned baby at the bar.

now before you get judgmental realize she used to work at the bar and the bar was the place that threw her a baby shower. So she was going to the bar not to drink but show off her daughter.

Ive been called to a group meeting to talk to CPS on her behalf.

what best can i say to make them realize that they are over reacting.

Or is CPS more right in this case?

I would charge the one who said that the baby was abandoned with false testimony and slander. This would be enough to stop CPS.

(By the way, it's illegal to take a baby in a bar that is also your workplace?)

Why was she in jail?

For this same incident? That's nonsensical - she could have afforded to deal with the ramifications, IF the ramifications hadn't existed - well, YEAH!

She freaked out like moms are prone to do and got into a scuffle with the cops.


That's bullshit. She could have had the car fitted with belts, etc.

Does Texas law require retroactivity on those old cars, or can they be grandfathered?

Texas law allows grandfathering. However Texas law requires child seats.

Regardless - pregnancy takes a while. She didn't suddenly find out a week ago that her car didn't have seatbelts.

yes and the car payments and insurance premiums last for years. not to mention she had to pay to give birth.

You might also want to tell her 'welcome to real life'. People have to pay for stuff here, and the bills don't nicely arrange themselves into easy-to-pay order.



What do I? Where did I get involved? Surely thius is betwen her and CPS.

I've just noticed that people often complain about what they can't do, can't afford to do, etc... and then, afterwards, complain that everything went shit-shaped, and it turns out they COULD have done something.

well we could always nationalize the lawyers. Provide everyone a lawyer at request from the government with compensation set at one uniformed rate.


Which might be relevant if she was somehow FORCED to go into this bar.

social obligation to go to the bar, they did pay for baby shower and a few other things. not to mention this is an entirely unnecessary cost generated by CPS.

She freaked out like moms are prone to do and got into a scuffle with the cops.


'Freaking out' when you're busted up to no good? Not a good excuse.


Texas law allows grandfathering. However Texas law requires child seats.


So - she only needed one seatbelt, then - if that.


yes and the car payments and insurance premiums last for years. not to mention she had to pay to give birth.


The car payments on a car she took to replace a car she already had? The excess costs she incurred herself are supposed to count in her favour?

How did she end up paying to give birth? Isn't that covered by some sort of aid, if it's not covered by insurance? Or was she earning too much?


well we could always nationalize the lawyers. Provide everyone a lawyer at request from the government with compensation set at one uniformed rate.


I'd vote for that. Nationalise lawyers and doctors tomorrow, and you've got my vote.


social obligation to go to the bar, they did pay for baby shower and a few other things. not to mention this is an entirely unnecessary cost generated by CPS.

Social obligation is a bogus excuse. She could have met them outside the bar, and no one gets in trouble. Or - if this was a communal effort (we can assume it wasn't one of those people that made the call), they could have done a private function.

You say it's an unnecessary cost generated by CPS... but they're incurring these costs by investigating and acting on reports of some form of abuse, no?

snip

to be honest unless your a lawyer I can try to talk into doing a pro Bonum for my friend I don't care. (maybe also getting a DUI expunged for me while here)

to be honest unless your a lawyer I can try to talk into doing a pro Bonum for my friend I don't care. (maybe also getting a DUI expunged for me while here)

If you don't care... why the semi-bloggy thread?

(As for the DUI, if you earned it, you earned it. You'll get no sympathy).

If you don't care... why the semi-bloggy thread?

(As for the DUI, if you earned it, you earned it. You'll get no sympathy).

because i am trying to get a free lawyer for my friend.

And as for the DUI beat it by refusing to take the sobriety test and sinking 2,400 on a lawyer. just want the entire matter expunged from my records.

because i am trying to get a free lawyer for my friend.


Given the known lawyer population of NSG is probably somewhat less than the known lawyer population of - say - your nearest lawyer's office, I'd say you're probably wasting time.


And as for the DUI beat it by refusing to take the sobriety test and sinking 2,400 on a lawyer. just want the entire matter expunged from my records.

I notice you don't deny being under the influence.

Given the known lawyer population of NSG is probably somewhat less than the known lawyer population of - say - your nearest lawyer's office, I'd say you're probably wasting time.

yeah but they will want money. free > expensive always.


I notice you don't deny being under the influence.

I most certainly do not confirm it. just silly to take a field sobriety test that rigged to make you look drunk on camera, or blow into a gizmo that mistakes sour dough bread for alcohol.

When i was taken to a hospital, shown the qualifications of the people taking my blood and given written and signed statements that I was going to be given a sample for use in my legal defense. I was below the legal limit.(given this was 4 hours after my Arrest)

Its not really my business, but you're coming off as such an jackass here that I feel an urge to say things that would risk getting me at least a temp ban.

'Freaking out' when you're busted up to no good? Not a good excuse.

"Busted up to no good?" Unless you can show me the law that says taking your baby into a bar is illegal, I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

I do agree that the reaction described is not a good one, though perhaps understandable. Their is this little thing called "biological instinct" that makes mothers hyper-protective you know.

How did she end up paying to give birth? Isn't that covered by some sort of aid, if it's not covered by insurance? Or was she earning too much?

Well you might have missed that little thing about millions of people in the US having no insurance, and insurance companies looking for ways to get out of helping you. You know, that lovely system where if you're poor you should be allowed to die because its obviously your own damn fault.:mad:

Social obligation is a bogus excuse. She could have met them outside the bar, and no one gets in trouble. Or - if this was a communal effort (we can assume it wasn't one of those people that made the call), they could have done a private function.

Maybe it was poor judgement, but presumably these are friends who she trusted, and its not like you've shown a single piece of evidence that the actions described in the OP are illegal.

You say it's an unnecessary cost generated by CPS... but they're incurring these costs by investigating and acting on reports of some form of abuse, no?

Well, they should investigate abuse, but by the sounds of this, and presuming the OP is not lying or leaving a great deal out, it doesn't sound like her behavior was particularily abusive.

You know, you may raise some valid points, but you also seem to be presuming guilt without a full understanding of the situation. Maybe you want to consider avoiding the Nancy Grace approach in the future.

yeah but they will want money. free > expensive always.


Why will they want money? You're trying to convince me there are no pro bono lawyers in Texas?


I most certainly do not confirm it. just silly to take a field sobriety test that rigged to make you look drunk on camera, or blow into a gizmo that mistakes sour dough bread for alcohol.


Excuses, as well you know... and not very good ones. The fact that the breath-tester is a communal device would have been a better excuse. The fact that breath tests are effectively one-shot, would have been a valid objection.


When i was taken to a hospital, shown the qualifications of the people taking my blood and given written and signed statements that I was going to be given a sample for use in my legal defense. I was below the legal limit.

Which is an admission that you WERE under the influence when you were caught - because otherwise you'd not have needed this elaborate wording.

I understand why you'd go through all that rigmarole to not have to admit to one of the stupidest crimes that exists, but we both know your linguistic gymnastics are covering for the fact that you DID break the law, and just don't want to be held accountable.

Excuses, as well you know... and not very good ones. The fact that the breath-tester is a communal device would have been a better excuse. The fact that breath tests are effectively one-shot, would have been a valid objection.



Which is an admission that you WERE under the influence when you were caught - because otherwise you'd not have needed this elaborate wording.

I understand why you'd go through all that rigmarole to not have to admit to one of the stupidest crimes that exists, but we both know your linguistic gymnastics are covering for the fact that you DID break the law, and just don't want to be held accountable.

there was no evidence that proved beyond a reasonable doubt that i was ever driving and under then influence. All I did was take a proactive stand to make sure invalid evidence was not used against me.
In this country this sort of stuff still renders a Not guilty verdict.

check out this site for more info.
http://www.1800dialdui.com/CM/Custom/TOC40WaystoBeataDUI.asp

Its not really my business, but you're coming off as such an jackass here that I feel an urge to say things that would risk getting me at least a temp ban.


I'll not report you. For all of me, be as forthright as you feel.


"Busted up to no good?" Unless you can show me the law that says taking your baby into a bar is illegal, I'm not sure where you're getting that from.


'Up to no good' doesn't necessarily entail 'illegal'.

I don't know if it's legal to take a baby into a bar in Texas. I've never tried to take a baby into a bar, in Texas, or anywhere else. But - I'm not taking my lack of knowledge to mean that it must be okay - because I'm well aware that ignorance of the law is considered a VERY poor defence.


I do agree that the reaction described is not a good one, though perhaps understandable. Their is this little thing called "biological instinct" that makes mothers hyper-protective you know.


I'm well aware. But if the mother puts herself into the position, and then attacks the officers who are routinely dispatched to investigate that position, I'm not sure how much sympathy is deserved.


Well you might have missed that little thing about millions of people in the US having no insurance, and insurance companies looking for ways to get out of helping you. You know, that lovely system where if you're poor you should be allowed to die because its obviously your own damn fault.:mad:


I don't miss that at all. I've been on the receiving end of getting fucked by the American healthcare fiasco more times than I care to recount.

My question was subtle, because the information I was really getting at was the 'why'. e.g. If she had too high an income to qualify for aid, I'm not buying the 'too poor to pay for a lawyer' story.


Maybe it was poor judgement, but presumably these are friends who she trusted, and its not like you've shown a single piece of evidence that the actions described in the OP are illegal.


If these are friends she trusted... why is she being investigated by CPS? If these are her FRIENDS, what are the missing details?


Well, they should investigate abuse, but by the sounds of this, and presuming the OP is not lying or leaving a great deal out,


Never save to presume that. Not just because (House says) people always lie, but because even good witnesses are only party to PART of any story.


...it doesn't sound like her behavior was particularily abusive.

You know, you may raise some valid points, but you also seem to be presuming guilt without a full understanding of the situation. Maybe you want to consider avoiding the Nancy Grace approach in the future.

I'm not presuming guilt. I'm just not presuming everything is as pristine and blameless as the OP suggests.

I suppose they have to take complaints seriously, but their's a limit. The thought of someone losing their child, even temporarily, over something so minor, is sickening.

I hope and pray this gets resolved quickly and fairly. If not, I would probably sue them to high heaven and try to get my account in as many media outlets as possible. But the combative approach may be too hard for some people for financial or other practical reasons.

My only advice is pretty straightforward: if your friend doesn't have a lawyer, she should get one now. Especially if she got arrested. Other than that I'll refrain from making suggestions, since I know next to nothing about this incident or the relevant laws.

Truthfully, none of us really do.

At least I admit it.

I often feel reluctant to give people advice about things that will seriously impact their lives, unless I know them. I don't want to tell someone what they should do without understanding the situation.

that's really hard for me to do. normally i just yell at bureaucrats until they call the police and I get a another public intox.

Maybe you're just impassioned.

yeah but they will want money. free > expensive always.

Free is always better than expensive?

With expert advice that your life, career, child custody, and freedom may depend on, I don't know if its always better.

(By the way, it's illegal to take a baby in a bar that is also your workplace?)

Is it? Besides I don't think it is her workpace anymore, used to be but no longer.

[QUOTE=greed and death;14570356] All I did was take a proactive stand to make sure invalid evidence was not used against me.
In this country this sort of stuff still renders a Not guilty verdict.
QUOTE]

Perhaps if you put as much effort into your friends case as you did into getting off a charge of drink driving (which is one of my pet hate btw) you wouldn't need to tout the interweb for a free lawyer

You seem to know all the loopholes yourself

Perhaps if you put as much effort into your friends case as you did into getting off a charge of drink driving (which is one of my pet hate btw) you wouldn't need to tout the interweb for a free lawyer

You seem to know all the loopholes yourself

He only knows the loopholes for DUI and paying taxes on foreign income (so he can leave the country and won't have to support Obama's "socialized medicine" with his tax dollars).

Evidently, the loopholes for assaulting police officers when they respond to reports of an "abandoned baby" aren't as personally useful to him.

Perhaps if you put as much effort into your friends case as you did into getting off a charge of drink driving (which is one of my pet hate btw) you wouldn't need to tout the interweb for a free lawyer

You seem to know all the loopholes yourself

I know many of the loop holes now after giving a lawyer 2,400 dollars and going through process. even so i would not be able to pull it off without a lawyer.


I get the feeling you think i did not deserve a fair trial because what i was accused of you find repugnant?

She doesn't have the money for a lawyer.

Hey NEO ART COME DOWN AND DO A PRO BONUM.

1) it's "pro bono"

2) I'm not licensed to practice law in texas

3) I know shit all about family law

4) no

just go in and tell the truth. emphasize that your friend is a good mother who knows how to properly care for her child.

tell your friend to check her ego at the door. forget about being tossed in jail. forget that they are bullies who can take her baby away.

its not unlike having to prove that you arent crazy.

she needs to go in calm and collected with an air of competence. agree to any child rearing classes that they want her to take and thank them for the opportunity to take them since she wants nothing more than to be the bestest mother ever.

they dont want to take her baby. all they need is some assurance that they arent handing the child back to someone who will end up abusing her.

1) it's "pro bono"

2) I'm not licensed to practice law in texas

3) I know shit all about family law

4) no

I always screw up those Latin word endings.
I was mostly joking.
thanx for being a good sport.

Welcome to the reality of the modern "justice" system - you are guilty until proven innocent, and your children belong to the State.

Welcome to the reality of the modern "justice" system - you are guilty until proven innocent, and your children belong to the State.

As bad as the Justice System is-and I assure you I am not one to leap to its defense-would you mind backing up those assertions?

Welcome to the reality of the modern "justice" system - you are guilty until proven innocent, and your children belong to the State.

Your kids are starving. Carl's Jr. believes that no child should go hungry. You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr. Carl's Jr...”Fuck You, I'm Eating."

Do you live in Connecticut?

I do.

Is it? Besides I don't think it is her workpace anymore, used to be but no longer.

Ok, then, dropping the workplace issue: is illegal to take a baby into a bar?

Ok, then, dropping the workplace issue: is illegal to take a baby into a bar?

Yes, it is. Children are not allowed on a bar until they're of legal age. In other words, if they can't consume alcohol, they aren't allowed there.

Oh Dio!:D

Ok, then, dropping the workplace issue: is illegal to take a baby into a bar?

It is in Oklahoma, I'm not sure about Texas, but we tend to have similar laws.

Yes, it is. Children are not allowed on abar until they're of legal age. In other words, if they can't consume alcohol, they aren't allowed there.

Oh Dio!:D

Wtf? Here kids can go to bars, they just can't have alcohol. (e che cazzo! ;) )

Anyway, if this is the case, the mother should contest the "abandoned kid" part of it - and pay the eventual fine for taking him into the bar.

Wtf? Here kids can go to bars, they just can't have alcohol.

I don't think laws in the US allow kids to be in bars.

E ricordate, l'Europa è l'Europa e il resto è conquistato terra.

I don't think laws in the US allow kids to be in bars.

E ricordate, l'Europa è l'Europa e il resto è conquistato terra.

...E il resto è terra conquistata. (oppure "terra di conquista").

Pero los yanquis no lo entienden.:D

...E il resto è terra conquistata. (oppure "terra di conquista").

Pero los yanquis no lo entienden.:D

Grazie per la correzione. Il mio italiano è a volte una merda.:tongue:

Así es, los yanquis nunca entenderán ésto. Triste su caso.

Grazie per la correzione. Il mio italiano è a volte una merda.:tongue:

Así es, los yanquis nunca entenderán ésto. Triste su caso.

No hay problema, mi español hace siempre asco.

No hay problema, mi español hace siempre asco.

Vale pues.

Wtf? Here kids can go to bars, they just can't have alcohol. (e che cazzo! ;) )
We have crazy puritanical alcohol laws here in the southern portion of the U.S.

Anyway, if this is the case, the mother should contest the "abandoned kid" part of it - and pay the eventual fine for taking him into the bar.

She should probably have the kid taken away, I don't know what kind of parent thinks it's a good idea to take your kid into a bar (filled with smoke) when it's illegal.

From greed and death's description she doesn't sound like a very responsible or intelligent mother.

We have crazy puritanical alcohol laws here in the southern portion of the U.S.



She should probably have the kid taken away, I don't know what kind of parent thinks it's a good idea to take your kid into a bar (filled with smoke) when it's illegal.

From greed and death's description she doesn't sound like a very responsible or intelligent mother.

Yes, it is. Children are not allowed on a bar until they're of legal age. In other words, if they can't consume alcohol, they aren't allowed there.

Oh Dio!:D


It is not illegal to take a kid into the bar.
And the bar is a smoke free bar. (technically sports bar that serves food and offers other services such as pool and video games). The only time in Texas you have a no one under 21 rule in the bar is if the bar's only service is serving alcohol. If they serve food provide pool people under the age of 21 or even under 18 are allowed in.

It is not illegal to take a kid into the bar.
And the bar is a smoke free bar. (technically sports bar that serves food and offers other services such as pool and video games). The only time in Texas you have a no one under 21 rule in the bar is if the bar's only service is serving alcohol. If they serve food provide pool people under the age of 21 or even under 18 are allowed in.

So it's a restaurant with a bar?

It is not illegal to take a kid into the bar.
And the bar is a smoke free bar. (technically sports bar that serves food and offers other services such as pool and video games). The only time in Texas you have a no one under 21 rule in the bar is if the bar's only service is serving alcohol. If they serve food provide pool people under the age of 21 or even under 18 are allowed in.

Does the bar serves alcohol? If it does, kids have no place there, sports bar or not.

Does the bar serves alcohol? If it does, kids have no place there, sports bar or not.

so do a great many number of restaurants. So does my home when i have guest over. Alcohol is not anti family in of itself. and this bar is very strict about kicking out those who have had too much to drink.

So it's a restaurant with a bar?

its a sports bar or sometimes refer to as a bar and grill.it offers food non alcoholic beverages and plenty of entertainment. All ages are allowed in the bar, teens come to play pool and video games.

so do a great many number of restaurants. So does my home when i have guest over. Alcohol is not anti family in of itself. and this bar is very strict about kicking out those who have had too much to drink.

A restaurant is place where families go to have dinner. At your house, alcohol is served to adults. What do you do at a bar? Have your kids play at the swings? No. People go to bars to mingle and to drink. A bar is not aplace for children.

A restaurant is place where families go to have dinner. At your house, alcohol is served to adults. What do you do at a bar? Have your kids play at the swings? No. People go to bars to mingle and to drink. A bar is not aplace for children.

play pool, video games, any of the other non alcohol related services.

play pool, video games, any of the other non alcohol related services.

Then they shouldn't call it a bar.

Then they shouldn't call it a bar.
awww but i call my home a bar.

awww but i call my home a bar.

That's beacsue you're a nut. *nod*

That's beacsue you're a nut. *nod*

that and there is always at least 100 types of liquor in my home.

that and there is always at least 100 types of liquor in my home.

And a drunk too. :D

And a drunk too. :D

i could give the local bars a run on their money if i mixed drinks and sold them.

i could give the local bars a run on their money if i mixed drinks and sold them.

Fixed!

Fixed!

id be so much more drunk if i didn't have class in 20 minutes.

We have crazy puritanical alcohol laws here in the southern portion of the U.S.
Aw.


She should probably have the kid taken away, I don't know what kind of parent thinks it's a good idea to take your kid into a bar (filled with smoke) when it's illegal.
From greed and death's description she doesn't sound like a very responsible or intelligent mother.


Dunno, it seems too harsh to me: maybe a fine would be enough to persuade her never to do that again - without the psychological trauma of having her kid taken away: that isn't going to improve her intelligence or responsibility anyway.


Btw, silly me: I didn't think of bars as "filled with smoke" as here in Italy we aren't allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants anymore. I have to travel 50 km and cross the border into Switzerland if I want to smoke in a bar.

People go to bars to mingle and to drink. A bar is not a place for children.

Meh. As "bars" are defined here in Italy, you can get also coffee, tea, hot milk, chocolade, cakes, potato crisps. Or play calcetto (table football), or cards (and not for money), or watch together sports on TV.

In the UK children are welcome in most pubs up to about 9pm (I think). We often eat in pubs as families, as they are now all smoke free and generally welcoming.
I just can't understand the puritanical laws of the US at times, and can't understand how this case got as far as it did

I don't think laws in the US allow kids to be in bars.

E ricordate, l'Europa è l'Europa e il resto è conquistato terra.

It depends on the state, the reason for going to the bar, and the type of bar it is. There's a bar in CT I go to often, and I see kids there occasionally. It's a bar that expanded into a small Mexican restaurant. You still need to be 21 to go there, unless you're accompanied by a parent or legal guardian.

In the UK children are welcome in most pubs up to about 9pm (I think). We often eat in pubs as families, as they are now all smoke free and generally welcoming.
I just can't understand the puritanical laws of the US at times, and can't understand how this case got as far as it did
its probably the part where it took 4 cops to restrain her. if she had remained calm it would have been over quickly.

Dunno, it seems too harsh to me: maybe a fine would be enough to persuade her never to do that again - without the psychological trauma of having her kid taken away: that isn't going to improve her intelligence or responsibility anyway.
Maybe parenting classes. Someone who fights with cops and takes their baby into a bar needs some sort of intervention.

Btw, silly me: I didn't think of bars as "filled with smoke" as here in Italy we aren't allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants anymore. I have to travel 50 km and cross the border into Switzerland if I want to smoke in a bar.
Bars are basically the only public place you can smoke now.

Meh. As "bars" are defined here in Italy, you can get also coffee, tea, hot milk, chocolade, cakes, potato crisps. Or play calcetto (table football), or cards (and not for money), or watch together sports on TV.
There's a difference between a restraunt/bar and a bar. Since he's not going to say it's a restaurant/bar, then I'm going to assume it's a bar. Restaurant/bars in the US are for the whole family, bars are for adults only.

In the UK children are welcome in most pubs up to about 9pm (I think). We often eat in pubs as families, as they are now all smoke free and generally welcoming.
I just can't understand the puritanical laws of the US at times, and can't understand how this case got as far as it did
In America we have guns. Things are different in different places.

Meh. As "bars" are defined here in Italy, you can get also coffee, tea, hot milk, chocolade, cakes, potato crisps. Or play calcetto (table football), or cards (and not for money), or watch together sports on TV.

Ma l'Italia che è strano.:tongue:

its probably the part where it took 4 cops to restrain her. if she had remained calm it would have been over quickly.

What the hell do you expect? The woman sees cops trying to take her kid for (to her) no apparent reason. Hysteria is what you get.

To the OP: My suggestion is to get a Public Defender.
what concerns me is the report of the 'abandoned baby'. more info would be nice.

---

it's not against law for a minor to be IN the bar, just so long as they don't drink alcohol.

May a minor enter the premises where a license or permit is issued? (http://www.tabc-training.com/texas-liquor-laws.html)

Generally yes, if he does not possess or consume an alcoholic beverage. A minor may not enter the premises of a package store unless accompanied by an adult parent, spouse or guardian. A licensee or permittee may have a “house rule” that minors may not enter their licensed premises.

FYI, a package store is a liquor store, a place that sells acohol in package form.

There's a difference between a restraunt/bar and a bar. Since he's not going to say it's a restaurant/bar, then I'm going to assume it's a bar. Restaurant/bars in the US are for the whole family, bars are for adults only.

its a sports bar or sometimes refer to as a bar and grill.it offers food non alcoholic beverages and plenty of entertainment. All ages are allowed in the bar, teens come to play pool and video games.

Unless the West Coast is completely different, a bar and grill is usually the same thing as a restaurant/bar.

Unless the West Coast is completely different, a bar and grill is usually the same thing as a restaurant/bar.

Nah, I've asked him repeatedly if it's a restaurant with a bar in it, and he's pussy-footed around saying how the bar has video games. He's from Texas, he should understand Oklahoman. I don't know about you, but 'round here when you ask someone a direct question and they give you an indirect rambling answer, they're usually trying to lie to you.

Either it's a bar/grill where families go or it's a bar. He won't say it's a bar/grill, he just keeps saying it's a "bar with video games".

What the hell do you expect? The woman sees cops trying to take her kid for (to her) no apparent reason. Hysteria is what you get.
i expect her to act like a rational human being not an out of control and quite dangerous nut who needs to have her child taken away for its own protection.

Bring in something proving she worked there, bring in evidence that they held the shower.

If the claim is made that all of the bar employees have had a vested interest in taking care of the child then the baby wasn't "Abandoned", and wasn't there for bad purposes.

The way CPS is always so busy I doubt they'll do anything.

Okay well i have more information Ignore everything before.

Understand as I write this I am IRATE.
1st. the bar was closed to the general public that night, It was open solely for family and friends of the child.

2nd. Both mom and Dad were arrested for public intox. (they fell for the please step outside trick).

Mom was drinking, however she had set aside enough breast milk beforehand for 3 days.
Dad was not drinking he got the public intox anyways.

Now here is what makes me mad. Mom was not given access to water, she became so dehydrated that she almost stopped lactating.

furthermore she was not given access to a breast pump or even a towel. She spent the night with her shirt completely covered in her own breast milk.
the night she was there was below freezing and they don't heat the jail here(they do air condition it).

Is not calling the police to say there is an abandoned baby when the child is in her fathers arms filing a false police report???

Lastly tonight we were supposed to have our meeting with CPS, they didn't show up or even call. Several people had driven in from hours away.

So fucking angry i think i am going to get arrested for picking a fight with a cop.

He only knows the loopholes for DUI and paying taxes on foreign income (so he can leave the country and won't have to support Obama's "socialized medicine" with his tax dollars).

Evidently, the loopholes for assaulting police officers when they respond to reports of an "abandoned baby" aren't as personally useful to him.

Don't forget those "minority scholarship" loopholes.

Don't forget those "minority scholarship" loopholes.

The important thing is, if you're going to get drunk and attack a cop responding to a report, the moral thing to do is have saved up breast milk for your child.

The important thing is, if you're going to get drunk and attack a cop responding to a report, the moral thing to do is have saved up breast milk for your child.

you save up breast milk before you drink so you dont give your child alcohol. she had a kid it doesnt mean she isn't allowed to drink for the next 18 years.

you save up breast milk before you drink so you dont give your child alcohol. she had a kid it doesnt mean she isn't allowed to drink for the next 18 years.

You could probably construe two drunk parents as 'abandonment', to be honest.

Whether or not she's saved up milk, she's not going to be in a fit state to parent anyone.

You could probably construe two drunk parents as 'abandonment', to be honest.

Whether or not she's saved up milk, she's not going to be in a fit state to parent anyone.

actually the father was not drunk. he was arrested for public intox with out having been drank that night. (though he has a birth defect and walks funny so an understandable mistake)

you save up breast milk before you drink so you dont give your child alcohol.

Yeah, we got that. It makes it all the more absurd that the mother of a breast fed child became so drunk that she attacked officers responding to a call, yet it should be mitigating that she at least stored up breast milk. That way, at least the child was sober enough to not attack cops.


she had a kid it doesnt mean she isn't allowed to drink for the next 18 years.

Getting so drunk that you attack cops isn't allowed, whether you have kids or not.

Yeah, we got that. It makes it all the more absurd that the mother of a breast fed child became so drunk that she attacked officers responding to a call, yet it should be mitigating that she at least stored up breast milk. That way, at least the child was sober enough to not attack cops.



Getting so drunk that you attack cops isn't allowed, whether you have kids or not.

wasn't so much attacked as resisted arrest. Neither resisting arrest or assault on the police were filed charges only the public intox.
at my friends weight the 4 drinks she had (the 10 months of sobriety lowering tolerance aside) should not have made her drunk.

actually the father was not drunk. he was arrested for public intox with out having been drank that night. (though he has a birth defect and walks funny so an understandable mistake)

Given your already established reliability on this specific story, I don't believe you.

On the off-chance that you're actually closer to the truth on this occassion, than you were on your first 'attempt', I still have no reason to believe that YOU weren't lied to.

I don't buy the story that he was arrested for being drunk, without SOME kind of inebriation - and I'm surprised that you bought such a story.

wasn't so much attacked as resisted arrest. Neither resisting arrest or assault on the police were filed charges only the public intox.
at my friends weight the 4 drinks she had (the 10 months of sobriety lowering tolerance aside) should not have made her drunk.

4 drinks is more than enough to push you over the limit.

Unless she was drinking milk.

Given your already established reliability on this specific story, I don't believe you.

On the off-chance that you're actually closer to the truth on this occassion, than you were on your first 'attempt', I still have no reason to believe that YOU weren't lied to.

I don't buy the story that he was arrested for being drunk, without SOME kind of inebriation - and I'm surprised that you bought such a story.

well that's what the bartender said, and he was willing to say to the police CPS had they come to interview like they were supposed to. In the state of Texas to my knowledge lieing about how much your served a patron to an officer is a 2,400 dollar fine. (same as serving someone under 21)

well that's what the bartender said, and he was willing to say to the police CPS had they come to interview like they were supposed to.


The bartender that is also a biased witness, at the very least, and an accesory in all likelihood?


In the state of Texas to my knowledge lieing about how much your served a patron to an officer is a 2,400 dollar fine. (same as serving someone under 21)

Well, he's hardly going to incriminate himself, is he?

All of which is irrelevent, of course, since - even in Texas - there are more places than just one bar that someone could have consumed alcohol.

4 drinks is more than enough to push you over the limit.

Unless she was drinking milk.

at 200 pounds over 2 hours 4 light beers puts you at .04 according to
http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm
even at 0 hours it puts you at .07.

while not 100% accurate. she was close enough to be good to drive. should have been more then fine for a non driver.

A restaurant is place where families go to have dinner. At your house, alcohol is served to adults. What do you do at a bar? Have your kids play at the swings? No. People go to bars to mingle and to drink. A bar is not aplace for children.

Depends on the time of the day around here ... even the "downtown" bars that at night are nothing but standing room only drunk college student sort of bars serve food during the day through supper (Full menu and cooks and such)

Sometime around 7 or so they start to switch over, card at the door and such

Granted you dont see a lot of kids around but that's mostly cause it is business people going to lunch

Depends on the time of the day around here ... even the "downtown" bars that at night are nothing but standing room only drunk college student sort of bars serve food during the day through supper (Full menu and cooks and such)

Sometime around 7 or so they start to switch over, card at the door and such

Granted you dont see a lot of kids around but that's mostly cause it is business people going to lunch

doesn't matter turns out the bar was closed to the general public and was only hosting a party for the baby and her parents.

at 200 pounds over 2 hours 4 light beers puts you at .04 according to
http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm
even at 0 hours it puts you at .07.

while not 100% accurate. she was close enough to be good to drive. should have been more then fine for a non driver.

Whereas, according to:

http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/

She'd have been illegal to drive, and certainly over the limit, if she'd downed 4 beers in half an hour.

at 200 pounds over 2 hours 4 light beers puts you at .04 according to
http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm
even at 0 hours it puts you at .07.

while not 100% accurate. she was close enough to be good to drive. should have been more then fine for a non driver.

Which is accounting for being postpartum? No.

Things change in your body when you breastfeed.

Whereas, according to:

http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/

She'd have been illegal to drive, and certainly over the limit, if she'd downed 4 beers in half an hour.

funny i use your site and it came up not impaired with lite beer ( 03%). or possible impaired(.057%) if i switched from lite to regular beers.

did you forget to put the time in perhaps? remember 2 hours (120 minutes)

funny i use your site and it came up not impaired with lite beer ( 03%). or possible impaired(.057%) if i switched from lite to regular beers.

did you forget to put the time in perhaps? remember 2 hours (120 minutes)

I see no reason to assume lite beer or 120 minutes. You were talking about a 0 time on your calculator (which doesn't even allow for gender, so I don't think much of it), and I showed that 4 beers spread over 30 minutes on the source I found, immediately made a lie of the other figures. Did you lose sight of your own cited figures?

I see no reason to assume lite beer or 120 minutes. You were talking about a 0 time on your calculator (which doesn't even allow for gender, so I don't think much of it), and I showed that 4 beers spread over 30 minutes on the source I found, immediately made a lie of the other figures. Did you lose sight of your own cited figures?

why we can argue this back and forth all day. and neither of us being judges have no authority to resolve this.

My real issue is that my friend was locked up with out access to adequate water and was denied items needed to control her lactation and which pretty much left her spending freezing night covered in her own milk.

that treatment is unacceptable.

why we can argue this back and forth all day. and neither of us being judges have no authority to resolve this.

My real issue is that my friend was locked up with out access to adequate water and was denied items needed to control her lactation and which pretty much left her spending freezing night covered in her own milk.

that treatment is unacceptable.

call the aclu.

call the aclu.

good idea sent an email to NOW and La Leche League already.

good idea sent an email to NOW and La Leche League already.

La Leche?! Pero qué coños es eso?! Qué nombre más cutre.:eek2:

La Leche?! Pero qué coños es eso?! Qué nombre más cutre.:eek2:

don't know the Spanish meaning just know its a breastfeeding woman's league, they might not get into politics but figured they would have good advice.

don't know the Spanish meaning just know its a breastfeeding woman's league, they might not get into politics but figured they would have good advice.

La Leche means "the milk". Whoever thought of that as a clever name for a breastfeeding league was high on crack. For those who know Spanish, the name is highly vulgar. "La leche" is also an expression to refer to cum, men's cum at that. *shakes head*

La Leche means "the milk". Whoever thought of that as a clever name for a breastfeeding league was high on crack. For those who know Spanish, the name is highly vulgar. "La leche" is also an expression to refer to cum, men's cum at that. *shakes head*

is it possible they were going to the Latin ??? take that back la is not The in latin

is it possible they were going to the Latin ???

Nope. The title is in Spanish.

Nope. The title is in Spanish.

just realized it after i thought for a second. sorry my Latin class in high school was over 10 years ago.
home page.

just realized it after i thought for a second. sorry my Latin class in high school was over 10 years ago.

No problem. My Latin is rusty too. But I do know the title of the league is in Spanish. They even published a book aimed at improving breast feeding in Latin America.

No problem. My Latin is rusty too. But I do know the title of the league is in Spanish. They even published a book aimed at improving breast feeding in Latin America.

i am sure some gringos who barely understood Spanish came up with it.

i am sure some gringos who barely understood Spanish came up with it.

Maybe. *shrugs*