NationStates Jolt Archive

President Obama has nominated Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius for Secretary of Health and Human Services. Although she is a Catholic who is personally opposed to abortion, apparently the pro-life crowd is getting ready to wage war over her unwillingness to violate the U.S. Constitution and impose her view on women nationwide.

Abortion, not resume, could dominate Sebelius confirmation (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/02/sebelius.abortion.fight/index.html#cnnSTCText)
Story Highlights:

Catholic League president refers to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius as "enemy of the unborn"

Progressive groups defend Kansas governor, praise bipartisanship

Archbishop chastised Sebelius over abortion bill that she called unconstitutional

Sebelius nomination likely to get backing of Democrats, moderate Republicans


(CNN) -- The congressional showdown over Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius' nomination to President Obama's Cabinet may focus less on her qualifications than on the issue of abortion, analysts said.

Obama on Monday nominated Sebelius to head the Department of Health and Human Services. Cabinet nominations require Senate confirmation, and anti-abortion groups already are making their views known.

Analysts suspected that Obama would face a battle over abortion if and when he makes a nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court, but religious conservatives could use Sebelius as a warm-up for the seemingly inevitable fight.

Calling Sebelius an "enemy of the unborn," Catholic League President Bill Donohue said the Kansas governor's nomination is particularly disturbing because the health and human services secretary is one of the few members of the administration who can directly affect abortion policy.

"Sebelius' support for abortion is so far off the charts that she has been publicly criticized by the last three archbishops of Kansas City," Donohue said in a statement.

The liberal group Catholics United has come to Sebelius' defense, saying the Kansas governor has taken several steps to lower the abortion rate in her state. The group also has posted excerpts of a 2006 speech in which Sebelius said she opposed abortion.

"My Catholic faith teaches me that all life is sacred, and personally I believe abortion is wrong," she said then. "However, I disagree with the suggestion that criminalizing women and their doctors is an effective means of achieving the goal of reducing the number of abortions in our nation."

In May, Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas, said that Sebelius' stance on abortion had "grave spiritual and moral consequences." He asked that Sebelius no longer receive Communion until she repudiated her stance and made a "worthy sacramental confession."

Naumann was reacting to Sebelius' veto of state Senate Bill 389 and the subsequent House version, titled the Comprehensive Abortion Reform Act, either of which would have tightened abortion regulations in Kansas.

In shooting down SB 389 in April, Sebelius wrote that the bill was problematic because it included no exceptions for pregnancies that endanger a woman's life and it allowed for individuals to seek court orders preventing a woman from obtaining an abortion, even if the procedure was necessary to save her life.

"I am concerned that the bill is likely unconstitutional, or even worse, endangers the lives of women," Sebelius said in a statement.

She further said that Kansas had striven to lower its abortion rates through adoption incentives, extended health services for pregnant women, sex education and support services for families.

Another lightning rod for Sebelius is attendance by Dr. George Tiller and his staff at a 2007 reception she held at the governor's mansion in Topeka. The doctor, who specializes in late-term abortions and once received the National Abortion Federation's highest honor, won the reception at a charity auction held for the Greater Kansas City Women's Political Caucus, according to the Topeka Capital-Journal.

Tiller is presently facing charges relating to his practice.

Last month, a district judge denied a motion to dismiss the case, meaning Tiller will go to trial on 19 misdemeanor counts relating to how he procured second opinions for late-term abortions, according to The Wichita Eagle.

Though Sebelius is dogged by many on the religious right, GOP Sens. Sam Brownback and Pat Roberts of Kansas seem willing to give her a pass on her stance on abortion.

Brownback, who sought the GOP presidential nomination and is one of the leading anti-abortion voices in the Senate, recently released a statement with Roberts, congratulating Sebelius and expressing an eagerness to work with their fellow Kansan on health issues.

The senators said they expect to have several differences of opinion with the Obama administration -- especially on health care funding and nationalized health care -- but they make no mention of the abortion issue.

David Brody, who covers the White House for the Christian Broadcasting Network, said the omission could pose a problem for anti-abortion advocates hoping to down Sebelius' nomination.

"It's a problem, and Sam Brownback has been in long step with them on the abortion issue. That's a setback for them," he said.

Meanwhile, progressive groups have lent their outright support to Sebelius.

Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, a health care advocacy group, said Sebelius "represents the knowledge, background, caring that I think is necessary for that position."

Sebelius, 60, is the daughter of former Ohio Gov. John Gilligan, who led that state from 1971-1975. The two-term governor has been credited for her bipartisanship and her success as a Democrat politician in a longtime red state.

Her work with insurance companies -- both as an insurance executive and as Kansas' insurance commissioner -- will also lend itself to the work of the Cabinet post, her supporters said.

However, those who are predicting a tussle over her Cabinet nomination concede that her experience will not be the bone of contention when she goes before the Senate.

"The pro-life groups have an itchy trigger finger on this. The inbox was full before Sebelius was nominated. They're ready for a fight," Brody told CNN.

In a column last week, Brody wrote that Democrats have solid numbers in the Senate, and Sebelius could sail through confirmation hearings because some GOP moderates, such as Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, both of Maine, are supporters of abortion rights.

Brody added that Sebelius is so qualified, the abortion issue may not be enough to derail her nomination.

The abortion fight, however, may be one that Obama's team wants to avoid, he said Monday.

"Do they want to be sucked in, if you will, to a fight over abortion? Or do they want to leave that for a summer battle over a Supreme Court nominee potentially?" Brody asked. "That's the danger here for the Obama administration, to be a distraction."

I actually hope the pro-life crowd does make a fool of itself by attacking Gov. Sebelius.

What say you NSG?

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/iatebaby.wav

:)

I actually hope the pro-life crowd does make a fool of itself by attacking Gov. Sebelius.


They will. They already have begun.

Yeah, I may be a tad bit conservative, socially, but she is right. Incentives have been shown to be more effective in convincing individuals to make socially responsible choices than mere punishment. Also the reverse is true in the cases of corporations as they will just take the money and run. Too bad too few leaders recognize this.

Somebody needs to inform the good Archbishops that a Pope once made a rule against this kind of politicking. And said rule is still in their books.

Apparently, the Archbishops know less about their own faith than the Brazilian agnostic translator.

http://www.spscriptorium.com/Season7/ChristopherReeve.jpg

FETUSI FOR DINNER.

http://www.spscriptorium.com/Season7/ChristopherReeve.jpg

FETUSI FOR DINNER.

"Phoeti".

;)

Somebody needs to inform the good Archbishops that a Pope once made a rule against this kind of politicking. And said rule is still in their books.

Apparently, the Archbishops know less about their own faith than the Brazilian agnostic translator.

Care to source that?

I for one welcome our new baby-eating overlords.


I hope the good governor can resist the round-the-clock pressure she will now face from the religious right...

In May, Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas, said that Sebelius' stance on abortion had "grave spiritual and moral consequences." He asked that Sebelius no longer receive Communion until she repudiated her stance and made a "worthy sacramental confession."

For some reason; I don't think they should be talking about morality.....

Yeaaaaah... I thought only Ebil Mozlems were supposed to be trying to cram their religion down everyone's throat.

Catholic League president refers to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius as "enemy of the unborn"


Great.

So now, women's rights issues will be discussed using the same phraseology as a bad fantasy novel.

Sweet. I heard some suggest she was a contender for VP, but I think she'll do a good job as HHS.

Also, can't wait for the "waaaaaaah save the babbiez" stuff.

Great.

So now, women's rights issues will be discussed using the same phraseology as a bad fantasy novel.

Hey, these are the same people who call the current Presidency the Sauron Administration.

Great.

So now, women's rights issues will be discussed using the same phraseology as a bad fantasy novel.

Well it is the age of the Dark Lord Obama (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i31735).

Are you for, or against, the Forces of Good?

Great.

So now, women's rights issues will be discussed using the same phraseology as a bad fantasy novel.

Well when you censor books; your choices go down.

Great.

So now, women's rights issues will be discussed using the same phraseology as a bad fantasy novel.
She's the enemy of people who don't exist? Cool! She's got my vote! (yeah, I know, it's a figure of speech.)

Hey, these are the same people who call the current Presidency the Sauron Administration.

They need to learn the ballad of Cokey McSnortdrunk.

Well it is the age of the Dark Lord Obama (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i31735).

Are you for, or against, the Forces of Good?

I wonder if Cheney thinks his Secret Service people can cast "Banish Undead" because of their holiness...

Well when you censor books; your choices go down.

Stop it. You're an Enemy of Appropriate Literature for Our Children.

She's the enemy of people who don't exist? Cool! She's got my vote! (yeah, I know, it's a figure of speech.)

Yeah...the "Unborn" is a fairly large constituency.

"Your honor, the unborn represent a class of people whose rights must be protected. The fact that it includes an infinite number of unrealized potential people, including Hitler's twin, the Bush brother who would've gone on to win the Nobel Prize in physics, and the egg that was flushed the month before the egg that became Paris Hilton, should not diminish the protection of those rights."

Catholic League president refers to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius as "enemy of the unborn"

I think I got that title in World of Warcraft last week.

Archbishop chastised Sebelius over abortion bill that she called unconstitutional


I just caught this. Sweet Jesus. Since when is an Archbishop an authority on Constitutional law?

I just caught this. Sweet Jesus. Since when is an Archbishop an authority on Constitutional law?

Since never, but an Archbishop is definitely an authority on chastizing.

How exactly is she a baby-eater?

How exactly is she a baby-eater?

It's a joke about the ridiculous rhetoric of the anti-choice movement.

How exactly is she a baby-eater?

She seems like a healthy eater, so she probably gets boneless and skinless cuts and steams them with vegetables and fresh rosemary. Rosemary really brings out the flavor of steamed baby. *nod*

hmmm they censored my post look up abortion video

Something tells me I don't want to do that.

Great.

So now, women's rights issues will be discussed using the same phraseology as a bad fantasy novel.

Lol.

Something tells me I don't want to do that.

It was a link to post-abortion video, the kind that pro-life websites like to use as propaganda.

It's a joke about the ridiculous rhetoric of the anti-choice movement.

Ah I see, I thought it was a reference to her being Catholic.

It was a link to post-abortion video, the kind that pro-life websites like to use as propaganda.

Yeah, that shit's retarded. Like being grossed out by surgery, blood, internal organs and all that means anything. They try to bash oyu on the head with it, cuz it's gross and they say "SEE? SEE THE TRUTH!" but it's just lame. I don't want to see 2 girls 1 cup either, doesn't mean I think that 2 consenting women and 1 consenting cup shouldn't be allowed to do what they want in the privacy of a youtube video.

Pot smokers land, quit the (attempted) arguments about abortion itself. The topic of this thread is the political questions related to the appointment -- will the pro-life and pro-choicers rally against/for her, will the Catholic Church oppose a Catholic appointee, will the question outweigh other policies she proposes or work she has done.

You are not forbidden to debate the rights or wrongs of abortion, just do it in another thread.

Other posters, keep this in mind and don't respond to the "abortion right or wrong" hijacks.

Pot smokers land, quit the (attempted) arguments about abortion itself. The topic of this thread is the political questions related to the appointment -- will the pro-life and pro-choicers rally against/for her, will the Catholic Church oppose a Catholic appointee, will the question outweigh other policies she proposes or work she has done.

You are not forbidden to debate the rights or wrongs of abortion, just do it in another thread.

Other posters, keep this in mind and don't respond to the "abortion right or wrong" hijacks.

You, madam, are an Enemy of the Unthreadjacked...unthreadjacked? That doesn't sound right...unjackedthread? Unjacked Thread? Unthreaded jacked...no...wait...

You're an Enemy of the Unmodedited.

You, madam, are an Enemy of the Unthreadjacked...unthreadjacked? That doesn't sound right...unjackedthread? Unjacked Thread? Unthreaded jacked...no...wait...

You're an Enemy of the Unmodedited.

*blushes modestly*

*accepts title*

AWP! I'm threadjacking!

*departs swiftly*

What say you NSG?Sam Brownback and Pat Roberts of Kansas seem willing to give her a pass on her stance on abortion.

Brownback, who sought the GOP presidential nomination and is one of the leading anti-abortion voices in the Senate, recently released a statement with Roberts, congratulating Sebelius and expressing an eagerness to work with their fellow Kansan on health issues.
The senators said they expect to have several differences of opinion with the Obama administration -- especially on health care funding and nationalized health care -- but they make no mention of the abortion issue.
I say that the above looks really promising.

Damn. Her views on abortion match my own to a tee.

I think that 2 consenting women and 1 consenting cup shouldn't be allowed to do what they want in the privacy of a youtube video.

What if th cup isnt consenting, but is a total slut and is leadin em on, askin for it if you will?

Great. I especially like how she is anti-abortion, but doesn't want to make everyone think the same way as her. A step forwards.

What if th cup isnt consenting, but is a total slut and is leadin em on, askin for it if you will?

One way or another, the cup is just full of shit.

If the good governor is qualified I say let her on board.

*blushes modestly*

*accepts title*

AWP! I'm threadjacking!

*departs swiftly*

[CSS Reference]
every time you Awp god kills a kitten!
[/css Reference]

"Phoeti".

;)

I shall use that word in a conversation.

At this point I just care if they paid their taxes.

Hmm, if she is an Catholic and being obedent to the law requires her to violate her held faith, then she should refuse the nomination, to do anything less would be immoral. The Archbishop is in the right to ask her not to take communion if she is going against the teachings of the faith.

Hmm, if she is an Catholic and being obedent to the law requires her to violate her held faith, then she should refuse the nomination, to do anything less would be immoral. The Archbishop is in the right to ask her not to take communion if she is going against the teachings of the faith.

I wont tell you how stupid your post is if you tell me what part of her office would force her to violate rules of her faith?

Hmm, if she is an Catholic and being obedent to the law requires her to violate her held faith, then she should refuse the nomination, to do anything less would be immoral. The Archbishop is in the right to ask her not to take communion if she is going against the teachings of the faith.

Wrong.

She doesn't have to answer to her faith for her politics. Period. As for the Archbishop, he's a moron.

I wont tell you how stupid your post is if you tell me what part of her office would force her to violate rules of her faith?

I never said that any part of her office did or didn't. However if it did violate her held beliefs, than it would be immoral for her carry out that part of her job and a violation of her duty not carry it out, something also immoral. The most moral thing to do in such an case would be stand an side and allow someone else to take the job.

I never said that any part of her office did or didn't. However if it did violate her held beliefs, than it would be immoral for her carry out that part of her job and a violation of her duty not carry it out, something also immoral. The most moral thing to do in such an case would be stand an side and allow someone else to take the job.

1. You appear to be saying that to be Catholic means one must agree 100% with every position of the Church and to be 100% obedient in one's belief.

Pray tell, what about the vast number of Catholics that don't agree 100% with every single position of the Church? Are they not "true Catholics"? Is anyone? See, e.g., this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=584844).

2. You also appear to be saying that everyone that believes abortion is wrong must advocate making it illegal. That simply isn't so.

Hmm, if she is an Catholic and being obedent to the law requires her to violate her held faith, then she should refuse the nomination, to do anything less would be immoral. The Archbishop is in the right to ask her not to take communion if she is going against the teachings of the faith.

The only standards of faith she needs to keep is her own. She is the only she is responsible for making sure she can sleep at night, and she is the one that needs to assure herself that her soul is cared for in the afterlife if she believes in one. The Archbishop's opinion is irrelevant.

I never said that any part of her office did or didn't. However if it did violate her held beliefs, than it would be immoral for her carry out that part of her job and a violation of her duty not carry it out, something also immoral. The most moral thing to do in such an case would be stand an side and allow someone else to take the job.

What would Machiavelli say?

I never said that any part of her office did or didn't. However if it did violate her held beliefs, than it would be immoral for her carry out that part of her job and a violation of her duty not carry it out, something also immoral. The most moral thing to do in such an case would be stand an side and allow someone else to take the job.

Who expects her to violate her held beliefs? From what I've seen, she believes that everyone must make that decision for themselves. Sounds like something Jesus would teach.

What would Machiavelli say?

Men can see but they cannot feel.

Men can see but they cannot feel.

Or: "Politics has no relation to morals." I think he said in a number of letters that one must not let one's religious value affect one's politics. A politician, despite his religion, puts the nation first, though a clergyman is loyal to his church's morals first.

Or: "Politics has no relation to morals." I think he said in a number of letters that one must not let one's religious value affect one's politics. A politician, despite his religion, puts the nation first, though a clergyman is loyal to his church's morals first.

I was refering to his bit about a politician should appear religious, but he doesnt really have to be, because men can see, but they cannot feel.

But yes, that works too.

1. You appear to be saying that to be Catholic means one must agree 100% with every position of the Church and to be 100% obedient in one's belief.

Pray tell, what about the vast number of Catholics that don't agree 100% with every single position of the Church? Are they not "true Catholics"? Is anyone? See, e.g., this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=584844).

2. You also appear to be saying that everyone that believes abortion is wrong must advocate making it illegal. That simply isn't so.

I am afraid that takes my arguement slightly out of context, what I am trying to argue is that if she is takes an appontment that will involve actions that will violate her personal beliefs, it would be immoral to accept because she would be going against what she belives to be right. However if it does not violate her personal beliefs than there should be no moral conflict.

I am afraid that takes my arguement slightly out of context, what I am trying to argue is that if she is takes an appontment that will involve actions that will violate her personal beliefs, it would be immoral to accept because she would be going against what she belives to be right. However if it does not violate her personal beliefs than there should be no moral conflict.


The appointment doesnt violat her religion, so...

I was refering to his bit about a politician should appear religious, but he doesnt really have to be, because men can see, but they cannot feel.

This is certainly applicable, and some the best advice out there. Church attendance and prayers do wonder for popularity, though are poor methods of choosing policy. The bit about lust applies too: many Presidents commited adultery, but Clinton became a symbol of it to much of the public. It is not what one is but what one seems.

But yes, that works too.

Yes; if one wants a moral profession, work for the church, but if one wishes to actually fix things, then one leaves tradition at the doorstep.

This is certainly applicable, and some the best advice out there. Church attendance and prayers do wonder for popularity, though are poor methods of choosing policy. The bit about lust applies too: many Presidents commited adultery, but Clinton became a symbol of it to much of the public. It is not what one is but what one seems.



Yes; if one wants a moral profession, work for the church, but if one wishes to actually fix things, then one leaves tradition at the doorstep.

Since when does one need religion to lead an moral life? being moral doesn't require religion but the ability to hold to what you belive to be right and and wrong.

I am afraid that takes my arguement slightly out of context, what I am trying to argue is that if she is takes an appontment that will involve actions that will violate her personal beliefs, it would be immoral to accept because she would be going against what she belives to be right. However if it does not violate her personal beliefs than there should be no moral conflict.

Then one wonders why you brought the subject up. There clearly is no conflict as she believes abortion is wrong but should not be criminalized. See, e.g., Kathleen Sebelius Explains Being a Pro-Choice Pro-Lifer (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/3/2/kathleen-sebelius-explains-being-a-pro-choice-pro-lifer.html)

EDIT: I would add that believing in the U.S. Constitution is a moral stance, even if doing so allows some individuals the freedom to do things one thinks are wrong.

Since when does one need religion to lead an moral life? being moral doesn't require religion but the ability to hold to what you belive to be right and and wrong.


Try reading the words on the page.

Then one wonders why you brought the subject up. There clearly is no conflict as she believes abortion is wrong but should not be criminalized. See, e.g., Kathleen Sebelius Explains Being a Pro-Choice Pro-Lifer (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/3/2/kathleen-sebelius-explains-being-a-pro-choice-pro-lifer.html)

EDIT: I would add that believing in the U.S. Constitution is a moral stance, even if doing so allows some individuals the freedom to do things one thinks are wrong.

I never expected the first part of my opinion on the topic draw much attention to be truthful. I expected more of an response from the part holding that the Archbishop was in the right for asking her to refrain from communion.

the whole thing bugs me. did they expect that a prolifer would be named as secretary of hhs? its just not going to happen.

other than that is there anything objectionable about ms sebelius?

the whole thing bugs me. did they expect that a prolifer would be named as secretary of hhs? its just not going to happen.

other than that is there anything objectionable about ms sebelius?

She drinks white wine with baby. Uncivilized. You drink red with baby. Everyone knows that. *nod*

She drinks white wine with baby. Uncivilized. You drink red with baby. Everyone knows that. *nod*

*New Jersey accent*

Da livahs go with da CHIANTI!

>.>

That was odd...

*New Jersey accent*

Da livahs go with da CHIANTI!

>.>

That was odd...

You just ruined one of my favorite quotes for me.


I hate you. >.<

You just ruined one of my favorite quotes for me.


I hate you. >.<

Wait, I actually PULLED OFF a New Jersey accent???

Yes; if one wants a moral profession, work for the church, but if one wishes to actually fix things, then one leaves tradition at the doorstep.

You can still be moral and fix things, after all one can 'fix' things but what they are doing can be very immoral.

She drinks white wine with baby. Uncivilized. You drink red with baby. Everyone knows that. *nod*
ohmyGOD im calling my senators immediately! this nomination must not stand!

She drinks white wine with baby. Uncivilized. You drink red with baby. Everyone knows that. *nod*

LG, you forget that it depends on whether the baby is served as a main course or as dessert. Perfectly fine to drink white wine with baby cakes.

She drinks white wine with baby. Uncivilized. You drink red with baby. Everyone knows that. *nod*

LG, you forget that it depends on whether the baby is served as a main course or as dessert. Perfectly fine to drink white wine with baby cakes.

Actually, it depends on which part of the baby she likes to eat the most. It can go with either red or white wine.

After all, take it from our expert infantologist:

http://www.fatbastard.tv/fatbastard.jpg

"OH YEAH, BEHBY: THA OTHER, OTHER WHITE MEAT: IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNAH!!"

Wait, I actually PULLED OFF a New Jersey accent???

That was more of a Boston accent.

That was more of a Boston accent.

I'm Brazilian. If it's in New England, you should consider it pretty good. ;)

(I guess I take too much pride in my English skills. I AM a translator...)

I'm Brazilian. If it's in New England, you should consider it pretty good. ;)

New Jersey isn't in New England. Its mid-Atlantic.

(Sorry, I'm just messing with you.)

New Jersey isn't in New England. Its mid-Atlantic.

(Sorry, I'm just messing with you.)

>.>

<.<

*Shoots a toy gun at VC. Watches as VC falls like the man in the Cheese Shop Sketch*

What a senseless waste of human life.

*Shoots a toy gun at VC. Watches as VC falls like the man in the Cheese Shop Sketch*

What a senseless waste of human life.

Tell... Tell The Cat-Tribe... separation of church and state really isn't that big a deal...

herk... blegh!

Tell... Tell The Cat-Tribe... separation of church and state really isn't that big a deal...

herk... blegh!

You're claiming separation of church and state isn't that big a deal?

>.>

Oh, relax, considering what you just said he's the LEAST of your concerns!

*Keeps VC alive. Has fun. VC doesn't so much.*

Put the leftovers in the freezer and back on topic, please, folks:

Baby-eater for Sec of HHS: the nomination of Gov. Sebelius
President Obama has nominated Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius for Secretary of Health and Human Services. Although she is a Catholic who is personally opposed to abortion, apparently the pro-life crowd is getting ready to wage war over her unwillingness to violate the U.S. Constitution and impose her view on women nationwide.
:

Hey, these are the same people who call the current Presidency the Sauron Administration.

That's the Dark Lord, you pinhead. Get your facts straight. :p

And as far as I know, they haven't picked up that particular terminology yet. They are encouraged to do so.

As far as Sibelius goes, it's completely unsurprising that an anti-life socialist would nominate an apostate Catholic and enemy of the unborn for this position. And considering that enemies of the unborn control the Donkocrat Party and the Senate, she'll probably be able to take power and continue the slaughter. Woe to her come Judgment Day.

As far as Sibelius goes, it's completely unsurprising that an anti-life socialist would nominate an apostate Catholic and enemy of the unborn for this position. And considering that enemies of the unborn control the Donkocrat Party and the Senate, she'll probably be able to take power and continue the slaughter. Woe to her come Judgment Day.

Why so serious?

That's the Dark Lord, you pinhead. Get your facts straight. :p

And as far as I know, they haven't picked up that particular terminology yet. They are encouraged to do so.

As far as Sibelius goes, it's completely unsurprising that an anti-life socialist would nominate an apostate Catholic and enemy of the unborn for this position. And considering that enemies of the unborn control the Donkocrat Party and the Senate, she'll probably be able to take power and continue the slaughter. Woe to her come Judgment Day.

Hey everyone! NM thinks God is his pokémon!