NationStates Jolt Archive

It's a staggering case; more staggering still that it has scarcely been mentioned on this side of the ocean. Last week two judges in Pennsylvania were convicted of jailing some 2,000 children in exchange for bribes from private prison companies.

Wait, what?

A 15-year-old called Hillary Transue got three months for creating a spoof web page ridiculing her school's assistant principal. Ciavarella sent Shane Bly, then 13, to boot camp for trespassing in a vacant building. He gave a 14-year-old, Jamie Quinn, 11 months in prison for slapping a friend during an argument, after the friend slapped her.

What, why?

The judges were paid $2.6m by companies belonging to the Mid-Atlantic Youth Services Corp for helping to fill its jails. This is what happens when public services are run for profit.

!

The corrupt judges were paid by the private prisons not only to increase the number of child convicts but also to shut down a competing prison run by the public sector. Taking bribes to bang up kids might be novel; shutting public facilities to help private companies happens - on both sides of the water - all the time.

Seriously?

This revolting trade in human lives creates a permanent incentive to lock people up: not because prison works, not because it makes us safer, but because it makes money. Privatisation appears to have locked this country into mass imprisonment.

I'd always opposed the current prison system because I felt it was convenience not rehabilitation that was the underlying reason for locking someone away.

I didn't realise it was also profitable.

Thoughts?

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/03/prison-population-titan-jails)

I made this thread on this topic a week or so ago.

The US is more corrupt than the UK,

Take that bitches!

but it is also more transparent.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I made this thread on this topic a week or so ago.

Apologies, you can request a merge if you like, I don't mind.

I think these judges should be stripped of their titles immediately and sentenced to serve every sentence that they issued under bribery.

Apologies, you can request a merge if you like, I don't mind.

Nah, my thread is in the graveyard. I just wanted to do the "beat ya to it" dance.

Not to mention the civil suits. And the entire B.o.D's of that company should get the same.

I think these judges should be stripped of their titles immediately and sentenced to serve every sentence that they issued under bribery.
They've resigned and entered a plea-bargain for seven years in prison, which is not enough in my opinion, but civil suits are likely to cost them everything they own.

Clearly this shows that the private sector is infailable, and that it should always be trusted more then the public sector.

Clearly this shows that the private sector is infailable, and that it should always be trusted more then the public sector.

Communist.

This is not a private sector issue. This is an issue of the public sector subcontracting privateers.

And that's what always happens when the public sector subcontracts - if you give money away, there will always be a taker. And then they want more...

This is not a private sector issue. This is an issue of the public sector subcontracting privateers.

And that's what always happens when the public sector subcontracts - if you give money away, there will always be a taker. And then they want more...

Wait...the private sector, motivated by profit, bribes people to help them increase their profit, and then its not their fault?

Oh please:rolleyes:


You have stories of the public sector bribing people to increase their profit? Oh right, the public sector isnt motivated by profit.

I always knew libertarians were divourced from reality.

Wait...the private sector, motivated by profit,
The private sector, motivated by handouts from the public sector.

They don't produce something for profit; they milk the budget.


You have stories of the public sector bribing people to increase their profit?
Their job is accepting bribes.

The private sector, motivated by handouts from the public sector.

In the original article, it says that the private jails were bribing the judge to increase their head count, so as to recieve more money, and to help them expand their profit.

So they started bribing judges in order to increase their head count.

So...like I said, motivated by profit....

They've resigned and entered a plea-bargain for seven years in prison, which is not enough in my opinion, but civil suits are likely to cost them everything they own.

I'll settle for their financial ruin and jail time.

As long as public mockery can also happen.

In the original article, it says that the private jails were bribing the judge to increase their head count, so as to recieve more money, and to help them expand their profit.
Receive money from where?
From the public budget.

It's the fault of the public budget managers that they give out money that's not theirs for dubious services that aren't needed.


Embezzlement of budget money is not "private sector", it's crime.

They've resigned and entered a plea-bargain for seven years in prison, which is not enough in my opinion, but civil suits are likely to cost them everything they own.

This is just another form of human trafficking, they should be treated like slave takers, fuck the resignation and plea bargain. Which prosecutor did they bribe for that?

This is outrageous beyond be-fucking-lief!

Communist.

Capitalist Pig-Dog Swine! Long live the worker's revolution!

This is just one reason why I am against incarceration...the system is not set up to reduce crime, it is set up to ensure the continued financial success of those who have a vested interest in keeping prisons open and full.

So OP. What did you do?

This is just one reason why I am against incarceration...the system is not set up to reduce crime, it is set up to ensure the continued financial success of those who have a vested interest in keeping prisons open and full.

The system was never designed to reduce crime. It was designed to punish those who commit crimes.

However, if we do not use incarceration, what do we do? Shoot them all?

The system was never designed to reduce crime. It was designed to punish those who commit crimes.

However, if we do not use incarceration, what do we do? Shoot them all?

A combination of drug-treatment, fines, corporal punishment, and capital punishment.

So OP. What did you do?

I threw a snowball at my friend but missed and hit a public building.

25 years without parole, harsh but it's taught me a lesson.

25 years without parole, harsh but it's taught me a lesson.

Hit the judge first and don't get caught?

Hit the judge first and don't get caught?

Don't pick up soap actually.

Don't pick up soap actually.

its shower time !!!

Don't pick up soap actually.

You should learn to pick it up with your toes. Bending over just upsets your center of balance in an already slippery foothold.

So how much would I have to pay to have a few teenage girls jailed at my apartment ???

Any record a lot of these kids have should probably be removed. Only seems fair, given the circumstances and the way a criminal record can screw up your life.

Any record a lot of these kids have should probably be removed. Only seems fair, given the circumstances and the way a criminal record can screw up your life.

you don't seal them when they become adults ?

you don't seal them when they become adults ?

I honestly don't know what the laws are in that respect. Perhaps someone more informed in that area could tell us?

I honestly don't know what the laws are in that respect. Perhaps someone more informed in that area could tell us?

i would assume if it was common practice in the UK it would be common knowledge.

They've resigned and entered a plea-bargain for seven years in prison, which is not enough in my opinion, but civil suits are likely to cost them everything they own.

Served in the private prisons of their buddies, no doubt

Wow. Corrupt private officials bribing corrupt government officials. Looks like we have both sides of the fence covered here.

Wow. Corrupt private officials bribing corrupt government officials. Looks like we have both sides of the fence covered here.

Like every other example of graft... non?

Like every other example of graft... non?

Oui.

Oui.

ToryEthics (as my drunken state has come to call you), you indulge me too much

Clearly this shows that the private sector is infailable, and that it should always be trusted more then the public sector.

In cases such as these when these sort of services are involved than yes, but I wouldn't say that about everything. Well maybe more trusted overall (bureaucrats can still cheat the system and fuck things up to benefit themselves) but sometimes a lot less efficient.

In cases such as these when these sort of services are involved than yes, but I wouldn't say that about everything. Well maybe more trusted overall (bureaucrats can still cheat the system and fuck things up to benefit themselves) but sometimes a lot less efficient.

Actually, I was recently looking at some date from APS (the Australian Public Service) and many government agencies are more efficient then the private sector, which is an interesting challenge to conventional wisdom

Actually, I was recently looking at some date from APS (the Australian Public Service) and many government agencies are more efficient then the private sector, which is an interesting challenge to conventional wisdom

It is indeed an interesting challenge, but this was studied by the APS? Sounds like something other companies do when they want to seem good is crunch the numbers to get the desired result.

Oh and you have never had to deal with Centrelink before have you?

Actually, I was recently looking at some date from APS (the Australian Public Service) and many government agencies are more efficient then the private sector, which is an interesting challenge to conventional wisdom

Hmm... A government organization says they're more efficient than private sectors... Nothing untrustworthy there. Did it go something like this?:

"Please, believe us, we're more efficient than the private sector! *sob* OH God, please, just love us! We only want to be loved!"

hmm... A government organization says they're more efficient than private sectors... Nothing untrustworthy there. Did it go something like this?:

"please, believe us, we're more efficient than the private sector! *sob* oh god, please, just love us! We only want to be loved!"

LMAO

EDIT: Sorry I am still laughing about this post

*Fist pump to CM*

It is indeed an interesting challenge, but this was studied by the APS? Sounds like something other companies do when they want to seem good is crunch the numbers to get the desired result.

Oh and you have never had to deal with Centrelink before have you?

From memory it was from Macquarie Bank.

Unfortunately, yes. Though in all fairness, Centrelink is a privatised government agency, and not the civil service

Wow... I laughed out loud at this... MYSPACE bulletin

From memory it was from Macquarie Bank.

Unfortunately, yes. Though in all fairness, Centrelink is a privatised government agency, and not the civil service

Ah ok I see. Privatised government agency, please considering they developed from the CES, much of the same culture will be similar they are only public servants once removed.

Wow... I laughed out loud at this... MYSPACE bulletin

Oh yes. Laughter was my first response too. Mhmm. Definately.

Receive money from where?
From the public budget.
It's the fault of the public budget managers that they give out money that's not theirs for dubious services that aren't needed.
yeah, sure. A Public Budget manager's job obviously entails vetting and scrutinizing the sentences that judges hand down, assessing whether said sentences are valid before passing funds onto the private prisons.
Cause, y'know, they're trained and experienced in all types of legal matters and are legally able to make such decisions.
And when they do decide that a particular sentence isn't warranted for the crime committed, they're fully within their legal rights to withhold public funding to the prison that particular offender is sentenced to and demand another trial. Heck, they don't need to even to that, right? They can just override the judge, pass judgment themselves and hand down a more suitable sentence, right?
Public Budget managers have that power don't they?

Take that bitches!



FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

New Zealand is rated somewhere in the top five most transparent countries in the world.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1236/1232229457509hf2.jpg

New Zealand is rated somewhere in the top five most transparent countries in the world.
Reason being is that no-one there is clever enough to be devious. All the devious ones flee to Australia :p

yeah, sure. A Public Budget manager's job obviously entails vetting and scrutinizing the sentences that judges hand down, assessing whether said sentences are valid before passing funds onto the private prisons.
No, a public budget manager's job entails not giving any money to such untrustworthy and unnecessary institutions as private prisons, thus eliminating the reason for their existence.


Public Budget managers have that power don't they?
PotUS does.

New Zealand is rated somewhere in the top five most transparent countries in the world.


Wow, here in the US our dirt is dark brown. Does that rule out adobe houses in New Zealand? Or do you use it for windows?

yeah, sure. A Public Budget manager's job obviously entails vetting and scrutinizing the sentences that judges hand down, assessing whether said sentences are valid before passing funds onto the private prisons.
Cause, y'know, they're trained and experienced in all types of legal matters and are legally able to make such decisions.
And when they do decide that a particular sentence isn't warranted for the crime committed, they're fully within their legal rights to withhold public funding to the prison that particular offender is sentenced to and demand another trial. Heck, they don't need to even to that, right? They can just override the judge, pass judgment themselves and hand down a more suitable sentence, right?
Public Budget managers have that power don't they?

hey i like private prisons. mostly because it lets me run a prison for teenage girls in my apartment, that saves the government money.
never mind a few might be pregnant now.

-snip OP-


What I don't understand is why you care? These kids broke the law. So what if a private prison wanted them to fill its quotas. They deserved to be there in the first place.

What I don't understand is why you care? These kids broke the law. So what if a private prison wanted them to fill its quotas. They deserved to be there in the first place.

The problem is that by taking bribes the jurisdictional system is loosing its credibility. The reason that people abide the judges is because they are supposed to judge unbiased. If they get money to send someone to a certain prison they can hardly be seen as unbiased.

The problem is that by taking bribes the jurisdictional system is loosing its credibility. The reason that people abide the judges is because they are supposed to judge unbiased. If they get money to send someone to a certain prison they can hardly be seen as unbiased.


You're absolutely right, I didn't think of it like that. My bad.

What I don't understand is why you care? These kids broke the law. So what if a private prison wanted them to fill its quotas. They deserved to be there in the first place.
They didn't. Maximum and minimum sentences in laws and the charge reduction system exist for a reason. The maximum sentences are there to enable the judge to take appropriate measures against hardcore career criminals. For occasional misbehavior, there are easements, which the judge is not just supposed, but obliged to apply.


The private prisons didn't pay to have them sent to said private prisons instead of state/county ones; they paid to send people to prison who didn't deserve to be there.